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Is atheism a sign of intelligence?  Is it a superior system of thought?  The expected outcome of rational thought?

It does seem on these boards that any form of theism is looked down on by most atheists.  But, is that do to actual thoughtful consideration - or is it just plain arrogance - or even insecurity?

Or some combination of the above?

How might atheistic thought be superior to theistic thinking?

Atheists are realists and require evidence before they believe something, so they've usually thought about religion or god and decided there's either no evidence or not enough. It's not arrogant to require some before you believe something; it's just common sense.  

When you eliminate a source of knowledge…You become an idiot…People behave the same today as they behaved than, strangely every things the same…Actually one of the best arguments against evolution is the fact that we haven't changed…Still full of greed, envy, all of the vices…Behaviors have remain the same.

My road to belief led to the point that god did not exist.  If god doesn't exist, nothing matters.  Loving, striving, doing the right thing are all purposeless.  There is not enough in any one of them to keep going.  Also, if god doesn't exist, how did everything come to be?  Whatever rationale, god had to have come up with it.  Either evolution, the big bang, no matter what, someone had to have designed it.

Otherwise, why bother.  Let it all hang out.  Anything goes.  You only live once.

What does either of these have to do with what characterizes an atheist? Not to mention they're both pretty naive reasons for belief. Also, it always makes me laugh to see you two 'debating' when you're obviously the same person  ::).

 Another question on this, or another way to reword the OP (more folk may end up weighing in on this) is what characteristics stand out about atheists?


Is it intelligence?  Is it something else?


For example - I think (I would have to verify) that atheists are more likely to be found in the Democratic party than the Republican (and perhaps other) parties.

I guess some athiests will look down on believers but the opposite is also true. Infact, I'd say it happens more the opposite.

I can agree on that, and the beleivers will look down on the athiest or judge them.    Just the same judgement I got from a staff member IMAO.

Also, some one,in other topic has noted that the percentage of atheists in American jails are well below the percentages of them found in the American population as a whole.  Be that causation or correlation - it is a characteristic.

*waits for sana8410 to chime in with a response too*  ;D.

Atheists are people who don't want to follow a religion because it's a pain in the butt.

Well, today I learned that by definition, I'm an atheist. I originally thought that atheism meant that you didn't believe in anything other than what you can prove through science, but apparently it just beans that you don't believe in deities. I'm a scientist primarily, but if I know something in my heart and have seen personal evidence that I cannot prove, I classify those views as spiritual views.

I know through personal evidence that the cosmos does speak, (not verbally, of course) and you only need to know how to listen. For instance, the other day I was debating what happens when you realize karma for what it is. Does the karma become invalid if you're happily going through it so that no longer have that karmic consequence to deal with even though negative karma is not supposed to be enjoyable? I had to deal with perceived karma that would overdraw my bank account. My ATM pin wasn't working, the bank was closed, and everything was blocking me from making a deposit. Usually when something isn't working no matter how hard you try, it's a sign that it's not meant to happen. I realized that that was probably karma from something that I did. (I know what it was that caused the karma.) I called my dad and he suggested making a night drop deposit. I needed an envelope to do it, so I stopped into the store behind me and got a gift card envelope to deposit the funds and I used a blank check as the deposit slip.

So, I debated that if I didn't make the deposit, then the karma would be purged. If I made the deposit, would it still complete the karmic consequences or would it mean that I'd have to revisit those consequences another day? Well, while I was thinking about it, two people walked past talking about investment banking and I took it as a sign that I was meant to make the deposit. I went and made that deposit and the next day I found out that the bank gives me a $5.00 cushion before they start charging me fees up the wazoo, so being over by a few pennies wouldn't have hurt me. My guess is that sometime that knowledge will come in useful, so I needed it as a dependency for some future project rather than as a lesson to be leaned in karmic consequences.

No, not intelligence.  But they may know how to get away with crime.

I watched the Unbelievers last night with Theoretical Physicist Lawrence Krauss, Steven Hawking, Richard Dawkins and others.  At the beginning and end they interviewed celebrities...I have no idea why, but Ricky Gervais was funny." Someone tells me that everyone is entitled to their religious beliefs so just keep your atheism to yourself" that sort of says it all doesn't it?  RG.

 I need to read Lawrence Krauss Book the Universe from Nothing.  I saw him on Colbert and of course Colbert was brilliant and asked him if God was nothing, couldn't something come from him?

In any event, Krauss explained better than I was capable in this thread as what is fulfilling to an atheist.  A celebration of not being dead mentally.  A celebration of a universe much grander than the petty one described in our religion that we arrogantly believe was created just for us.  Celebrate the existence of these complicated brains that allowed us to contemplate the existence of this place that made us,  It is far more wondrous than any religion.....to us.   This is why it cannot be grasped or explained to someone who has a priori decided to turn off their brain and put a halt to any further investigation in that arena.  They started with answers.....why go any further.  To us, that is akin to being dead and far more full of hopelessness.

In any event, Dawkins said he doesn't think nearly as many people believe as claim to believe.  He made a few good points.  Ask someone if they believe when the priest says "body of Christ", that it turns into the body of Christ?  Of course that can be argued as a symbol, but why do so many more people sob uncontrollably at funerals then when they say goodbye to their kids who they go off to college or to live abroad for instance.  If you truly believe you will be together again, what is the difference really?  Why the need to sob uncontrollably at a funeral if you believe that a) they are in a better place and b) you will see them again in this better place?   What the hell are you all crying about if you really believe?

Dawkins was also asked what the future of atheism is and he said he hopes it dies. "We don't call ourselves Ahorists or Azeusists any longer, why should we continue to call ourselves A-theists as we become enlightened?

The other interesting point Dawkins brought forward is that the common misperception that new species come out of old.  They don't.  Every species ever born was the genetic offspring of its parents.  Its the imperceptible change over time ......when applied to 3.5 billion years.  So there is no "first man"   There can be no first man.  So religion teaches us Jesus died for the original sin of first man who we now know never existed.  Brilliant.  God gave man free will but will send him to hell for using it.  Don't question it. He works in mysterious ways.  Ricky Gervais also asked what is the difference between a god that allows all the horrible things to occur (works in mysterious ways) and no god at all?  None of course because he aint there.

One funny but not so funny point Krauss makes in his book is that while the Universe can make something out of nothing, religion can make nothing out of something.  It happened in the 1100s in Islam, the then center of art, music, mathematics and culture and the islamic relgious fundamentalists turned it into nothing.  Likewise the enlightenment of europe was turned into the dark ages.  It can happen again as other threads portend.

It was an interesting enough documentary with excerpts from Hawking and others.  Some of it was crap but I would love to sit down with those guys.

Atheists are the people who have given up on believing in any version of God for whatever reason. That's basically it though, naturally, some are more loudmouthed about it than others. If you want to see atheists in action, this is a decent subreddit to hang out in. http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism

Everyone deep down is agnostic to some degree. Even those that believe, must at some time have doubts...as goes for those nonbelievers.

A sane brain.

The lack of belief in god or gods... That's it!

For me it's the complete lack of any evidence of a God. The same reason I don't believe in mermaids despite the fact that some do. 

Atheists are reasonable people who are able to understand the world that surround them without the need to appeal to magic/mystic.

They have the clear mind to seek reason in order to understand reality.

TLDR, atheists are not lazy people: they use their brain.

No!

Atheists do not believe in god or gods, period!

I know a lot of people who are atheist and they believe in a lot of crazy conspiracy theories, astrology, homeopathy, Feng Shui and a lot of other pseudo-science or New Age bullshit.

Atheism is not the same thing as skepticism.

non sense

(I am skeptical about what you've just said)

At one time Jesus' disciples said to Jesus something to the effect of, "Now we can see that you know all things, and that you don't even need anyone to ask you questions."

I still need people to ask me questions... at least much of the time.

In Mark 11:22-24, Jesus says that if you have faith in God, you can have anything that you say. Then He goes on to say that if we believe that we will receive what ever we ask for in prayer, we will have it. Then He says that if we don't forgive, we won't be forgiven by God.

The point is, an atheist knows that he doesn't have any sin. This produces an automatic self-forgiveness in him. Because of this, an atheist often gets what he asks for faster than a Christian. And what he asks for above many other things often is a peaceful life.

A Christian knows he is sinful. Knowing he is sinful makes it hard for the Christian to forgive the most important person in his life (next to Jesus, of course), himself. So, since the Christian won't forgive himself like he should, he gets what he is asking for... trouble in his life.

Now, I said this briefly. Think it over and put it into better wording for yourself. And if you are a Christian, start forgiving yourself. After all, Jesus and His Father both forgave you. So why shouldn't you forgive yourself, and start having a better life?

:)

Haha, nice, but I don't think that's an extraordinary claim, you can take my word for it.

It is not true. We cannot sin, because God is almighty and would never let their children sin. God exists, and there is no doubt of it. He is your father. He loves you. And he commands the world. He is all powerfull and nothing goes on without his consent.

Accept that you, as sons of God, are gods yourselves.

And be happy! ;D

The deposit was really only important if you were making it into the account of a seller of bitcoins (probably using BitQuick.co), bitcoins that he was going to transfer to you once he received the deposit.

:)

All right, all right. Sounds like you got it made then. Lots of Christians have not forgiven themselves for all kinds of things that they have done, even though they know God has. And there are several places in the Gospels where Jesus says that if you don't forgive, you won't be forgiven. Let's hope that all these unforgiving Christians finally forgive themselves before they die, even if it is on their deathbed.

:)

Well, fuck that god then, for commanding/consenting child rape, and cancer, and AIDS...

The funny part about this is that, if God really is real, then what they have done is to put themselves up into the place of god by attempting to be more powerful than He through denying Him.

:)

Well, this is absolutely true. Nobody has seen God except the one and only Who He has sent. So, since we haven't seen God, there certainly are aspects about Him that we do not know. What else could this produce but a touch of agnosticism?

:)

Atheists have only convinced themselves that they do not believe in God. This makes all true atheists liars, lying to themselves, mostly.

:)

In Isaiah in the Old Testament, there is a place where Isaiah explains that once this world has passed through the Judgment - he doesn't say that it is thrown into the lake of fire, but that is the time he is talking about - none of this life will be remembered or brought to mind. It will be taken entirely out of history, even of God's remembrance.

Remember how Jesus is called the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end? There will no longer be any middle. There will no longer be anything left of this life. It will all be the New Heavens and the New Earth. Even the people who don't get saved will be entirely forgotten.

Now, I don't like pain any more than anybody else. But I expect that I will die just like everyone else. The pain of death will probably come for me. So, I am not going to deny God in anger for two reasons:
1. I don't want the pain of everlasting hellfire;
2. And, more importantly, I don't want to miss out on that new, wonderful life in the New Heavens and the New Earth.

:)

Not believing in imaginary friends.

I don't know who you are talking about? I am an ATHEIST not an agnostic. I do not live in some demon haunted world full of Gods and magical ferries. I have no doubt whatsoever about it.

As Heinlein said in Stranger in a Strange Land, "Thou art god." Do you grok it?  :)

Human brains have a flaw that is left over from our ancestors - we see patterns. We are so sensitive to recognizing them that we see them even where they don't exist. This pattern recognition isn't something that is conscious; it is the processing that tells us the grass is moving because a predator might be there, that the strange shadows could be holding something that will pounce on us. There was little evolutionary disadvantage to being too paranoid or seeing things that weren't there. This insatiable patterning gives us boogie-men when the lights are out, makes us susceptible to illusion, but more importantly, it makes us ascribe meaning and causality where there is none.

We are often able to reason our way out of our misperceptions using our intelligence, but for some, there is no examination of how intellectually a conclusion was reached. Even worse, we can apply attention to something (as the above quote does), and even though we have given it thought, our brains cannot overcome the dissonance that there must be a pattern, a reason, a bigger plan, a conspiracy, or a creator of all things. Superstitions are fun to mock unless they are our own, then we will defend them to our deaths.

An atheist can see that religion is a series of con-men taking advantage of this, telling stories about how failure to think certain things upsets a man in the sky who will punish you in a magical land after your die, or alternately you go to a happy place with clouds and only the dead people you like. He will get extremely mad if you believe in the other gods or make the wrong choice or don't follow the rules of the correct book. Good religions are ones who's "Darwinian" rules include converting others, having lots of kids/disciples (along with rules against parental planning), and of course coming to power and eliminating competition. Money is usually involved. A good atheist rejects religion not because they reject morals, empathy, or kindness, but because they seek the observable truth.

Atheists are probably more tolerant of religion that religious people are of each other. We will usually let you believe whatever you want up to the point where your self-righteous ass-hattery fucks with our lives.

Of course, then there is the rest of the deep examination, that concludes that there are many determinations found through examination of the same things. The consensus that is agreed on isn't always even near what is the truth.

That last paragraph is good, though.

:)

Atheism is not the same as religion.  Religion is crap, makes no sense, and is an intellectual dead end.  Belief in a higher power is not so, it allows continued questioning of the "how" of our existence and doesn't settle on an answer written by stupid people a few thousand years ago.

Another thing that both Krauss and Dawkins spoke about that was interesting is the "why are we here" question that is an origin of religion evolutionarily and very much ingrained in our species. That question, while ingrained into our evolution, it a very silly question.  In a Universe that came from nothing, in the darkness of space in areas of no matter, where things pop in and out of existence continually and "nothing" turns out to be far more interesting than we thought.  "Why we humans are here" is a very silly question.   Live well.   "How are we here" is the question.  How did this happen, how did these things evolve?   When God is the answer then you have stopped to seek.  What was once plausible has been proven possible so many times.  Plate tectonics was at first plausible before fact, evolution was plausible to Darwin long before it became fact, the earth revolving about the sun was plausible to galileo, life from matter in a universe from nothing is also quite plausible and frankly, approaching facthood.   Not that the Universe from nothing theory precludes the multiverse theory.

If we ultimately find "god," it aint gonna be the god of the bible with any of the hoakster "prophets" at his side.

I imagine people like Krauss and Dawkins look at people like DC, Curm, Freebird, etc etc  much like a scientist looks at his lab rats, or the kids look at the baboons at the zoo. "Oh look Lawrence, there is one of them in a WalMart parking lot, hand me the binoculars.  I understand American polls suggest 47% of these people believe Jesus is returning in their life and a full 13% of them believe the antichrist is currently alive as president Obama....."   That they lost to cretins like us has to be a huge embarrassment for all eternity to Britain....but they could use some understanding of dentistry as well...among other issues (pronounced is-use).
I guess that is my answer.  While many smart people are theists, more smarter (pun intended) people are by and large atheists or at least question all those mountains of horseshit in everyone's special religious books from the Mormons to the Christians to the Muslims.

I also believe in evolution.  It doesn't matter what form creation takes, there still has to be something that creates it.  The original chaos isn't just there without a creator.  How else could original chaos start?  By itself?  No matter how far back I travel, something or someone had to create a something.

The places with the lowest participation rate in religion and belief like New Zealand and many Scandinavian counties also have much less crime than the US.

97% of scientists believe in evolution (including categories like mechanical engineer).  The category of scientist presumably has  larger than average percentage of smart people....compared to most professions.  They are far  less likely to believe in god than the rest of the public.   I doubt they are all secret closet criminals.

There are numerous studies that link higher intelligence with lower belief.....copy these words and paste them in your google bar.

Intelligent people are more likely to question things that don't make sense and seek answers to difficult questions.  Hence, they see the inanity in our religious beliefs as well as the likely path to their evolution.  They also see the reality of our existence in terms of our Universe's and our biological origins.  If divine intervention occurred at any point, it has yet to be evident.  It remains possible, but the likelihood your childhood stories about religion are correct stand at 0.00%.  Just my opinion.

Everyone deep down is agnostic to some degree. Even those that believe, must at some time have doubts...as goes for those nonbelievers.

Searching the internet, it does seem that atheists also (at least in the US) tend towards leftist/liberal side of politics.

Though, interestingly, 2nd likely area appears to be libertarian type groups.

Zolace,if your own religion causes you this much doubt that you have to constantly keep verifying it with other people, and measuring it against what they believe, then it isn't much of a faith.   Is someone proselytizing you against your will? Just tell them to stop it.  Sometimes they go away, and other times they just won't.

Here is the perspective of a converted atheist.

“The point of atheism as a belief is about logic and sense — and then you hit that juxtaposition,” he said. “If you’re using sense, then you can’t deny when something else makes sense as well.”

“There’s actually a comfort in denying God, ironically, in having things objectively happen as a matter of chance.”

Former ‘Militant Atheist’ Reveals What Totally Changed His Mind About Death, God and the Afterlife

British author Scott Coren once described himself as a “militant atheist” who believed in a “world that operated on chance and natural selection” — but then something profoundly changed.

Coren, a father of two, said his path diverted after his daughter was born in 2012 with a serious heart condition.

He began caring for her around the clock, spending a plethora of time in medical facilities and a hospice, where he observed some dynamics that changed his heart and mind.

When Coren saw the nurses, whom he described as “human angels,” caring for critically ill children, his views on God and the afterlife began to dramatically transform.

He found himself pondering death, in particular, thinking, ”It can’t be the end of things. It just doesn’t make sense.”

The “reason” and “logic” he had once used to deny God’s existence were suddenly leading him toward a belief in something more profound.

Despite his best efforts to avoid becoming a Christian, Coren said that his reasoning faculties left him with no alternative option.

“The point of atheism as a belief is about logic and sense — and then you hit that juxtaposition,” he said. “If you’re using sense, then you can’t deny when something else makes sense as well.”

Coren said it was “a very gradual and slow process” that evolved over the last couple of years, but that his daughter’s illness sparked an entire reworking of his views.

“My daughter was born with a heart problem. For two and a half years now I’ve been looking after her. She can’t be left alone for her for a second,” he explained. “My life is very much like a hermit. I’m awake all night, every single night. I’m living a very medicalized life.”

His daughter’s very serious condition means that she’s sometimes abruptly hospitalized and can go from being well to falling into a life-threatening condition in just a half hour’s time.

While some tend to blame God when loved ones experience illnesses, Coren has experienced quite the opposite, telling TheBlaze that his struggles have sparked an evangelical faith journey.

“I’m lucky because I have that Christian footprint behind me. I know the stories,” he said. “One of the usual byproducts of being a militant atheist is knowing what you’re militant against.”

While Coren had a good command over the contents of the gospels before, though, he said he’s now reading them through a very different lens: by viewing them as the word of God.
Scott Coren and his daughter


“It’s almost rediscovering my own culture. I think God uses everything some way to reach somebody,” he said, noting that he’s spent his life ignoring signs and revelations. “There’s actually a comfort in denying God, ironically, in having things objectively happen as a matter of chance.”

As for his daughter, Coren said that she still needs surgery, but that her prognosis is positive.

And though he’s been confined to his home and consumed with familial needs, the newfound Christian has found the time to pen a new book titled, ”Matthew 13:44” — a literary project that is loosely based on his struggles surrounding his daughter’s heart condition.

“It’s a catharsis. It was a way of analyzing the experience I’ve been through,” he said of the fictional story. “The skeleton is my story, but it’s also a mystery, a bit of a thriller.

Coren said he wanted to focus in the text on how bad things sometimes happen in life — but that people can and often do find the strength to pick up the pieces and move forward.

Find out more about “Matthew 13:44″ here.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/09/15/author-and-former-militant-atheist-reveals-what-led-him-to-christianity/

Religionists might want to work on being tolerant of atheists, because they are not.  Think they ever will?

This is not a God question.  This is a live and let live problem.  You do your thang, I'll do mine.

To whom it may concern: 

I won't intrude on you, burn your bible or Quran, or Torah, or any other 'holy' book, censor your speech, dictate your speech (like make you say a public pledge declaring you live under my sky fairies) take down your icons, dictate the terms of your healthcare, whether you are male or female, straight or gay or anything between;  dictate the percentage of your wealth you must give to charity according to my doctrine (assuming I have one), attempt to force you to obey govt laws based on my convictions or the convictions of my homeboys, or literally kill you if you don't agree with my ideas about the universe, or rhetorically condemn you to virtual eternal torture if you refuse to accept my way of seeing things.  I won't do any of those things; that is my pledge to you. 

One small exception:  I do not pledge that I will refrain from arguing and disagreement with your beliefs if I find them absurd.  It's a nuanced exception, but an exception nevertheless....disagreement is neither fear, hostility, or intolerance.  It is just disagreement. 

Would you fervent believers, you religionists make the same pledge?     

Atheism is simply one of the methods that Satan deludes the minds of people with, to turn them away from God so that they won't be saved.

:)