Bitcoin Forum

Im of the belief paypal will keep everything nicely controlled from this point on, they have the ability to shift BTC to a very high price with such a huge network of customers.  We are talking 5 figure type prices if BTC goes into the main customer wallets like USD or EURO quite easily - just add their amount of customers divide BTC available etc.

"With 190 countries, 17 currencies and 150 million accounts worldwide"

https://www.paypal.com/uk/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=xpt/Marketing/general/CrossBorderHowToPrintable-outside

So lets think...

1.)If a fraction of these people had 1 btc in their account at any point the price would be through the roof.  Has to right we all agree on that at least?

2.)Paypal for some reason are keen to use BTC why is this? because they need the btc economy so much?..... hmmm doubt it - basically not that.  Because its more profitable and efficient for them to use BTC vs fiat... bingo.  It also means they can branch out to the unbanked - perfect timing with mobile payment stuff.  

3.)Paypal will nudge all their customers towards BTC for reasons in #2


So...to summarize paypal love BTC they arent just goofing off and they arent just doing us all a favor, they are serious about BTC.

Nut job seems like the correct user name for you.

Are you just trying to hype this, or are you that clueless?

Explain why im wrong without personal attacks/insults and i might actually listen.  Or are you just here to talk smack?

I don't know about just paypal, but big financial players will have more and more control from now on, rather than nerds on this forum.

Hey now, I trust nerds more than big financial players, for they will lie as much as legally possible to screw over the next guy to make the quick buck.

With big players interested the price has to go up long term,  Before with just a few nerds it was just potential. You think PayPal will let BTC die when they spent 2 months incorporating what they've done so far - no chance.

PayPal also have their reputation on the line.

I'm not saying it's good, just that it's happening!

Nerds are smarter though, in the end the nerds will have the power.

Yes, but PP is not going to prop up the price so everyone else can get rich. BTC at $1 spends the same, so it makes no difference to them what the exchange rate is.

While I follow your EW chart thread with intrest, your statement above is incorrect.

If all 21 million coins were in existence right now, only 21 million coins could move every 10 minutes x (pick your minimum confirmations). There is a lower bound value based on the number of coins traded x their value.

So $1 BTC does not spend the same as $1000 Btc

I am not the chart reader that you are, but if you look at bitstamp's weekly chart during the height of the last rise, it looks like 200,000 coins were traded in a week. 200,000/ 7 days /24 hours = 1190 coins traded per hour,  requiring six confirmations to alleviate a double spend. Bitstamp moved 1190 coins per hour. If the coins were not "worth " $1100, there would have to had have been much greater volume. i.e. 10% of all coins (in existenceat the time) if they were worth $1.

I get what you are saying, but I wasn't meaning that 21 people could go buy $1M yachts at the same time with $1 BTC. Just that a BTC is a BTC whether it goes for $1 or $1,000,000.
The speed would absolutely be slower, but not necessarily dead. The actual use case could very well be covered by $100/BTC at this time, if I had to guess.

Just for the record, those 200k coins weren't moved every trade either. Some were, sure, but many (most?) would stay right there (=no tx on the blockchain) waiting for the time to sell them again.

Propping up the price in any way would probably be more expensive than it was worth. It is almost always cheaper to just let price discovery alone than to manipulate the market.

If the speed is slow enough then BTC is dead.  Hence $1 BTC is not useful.  Would you say that the market is speculatively propped up from this $100 use case as described? Or is it that the amount of coins in circulation multiplied by the current value is the useful value of the network?

Since the markets, as your described, do not represent useful bitcoin transactions, what metric should we use to discuss the amount of useful bitcoin in a set time period? 

Not directly but yes i think the knock on effect as paypal get more involved they will be more interested in people using bitcoin and this = price higher.  5 billion market cap cant work with all Paypal customers transacting can it ?

I dont think $1 btc would sustain without btc dying now either so i have to respectfully but firmly disagree but my mind is open :)


Again not directly but yes i think they will be concerned on price and BTC economy and they have the network power to invest to improve both.  Doesnt mean they are on bitstamp with a 50k BTC buy order @ $350 ;D

Paypal will eat bitcoin holders alive.
We should all ban paypal!

not everyone who uses paypal will buy bitcoin immediately.

and even those who do, will probably not buy a lot.

Paypal do not care about the value of the bitcoin or price stability as they do not care whether you use their portal and pay with fiat, or with bitcoin. In fact given that they are not the bitcoin payment processor - they are using coinbase and bitpay and gocoin, - they would probably prefer you continue to use fiat as they will make more money that way. Its a for profit company with shareholders after all.
I imagine they are using all three bitcoin payment processors as they are having a beauty parade before they decide which one to buy. Once they have bought one (or stolen enough ideas to build their own) then you might see an active push by Paypal towards bitcoin.
However that in and of itself will not be enough to boost adoption, the thing that will boost adoption, is that if/when the cost savings available to consumers created by bitcoin are actually passed on to the consumers. This is not currently happening, and until it does there is no incentive for the general population to adopt.

Lots of idiots in here. You should have just kept your thoughts to yourself OP, these people are smart enough to understand and no matter what you say will convince them otherwise. Let them lose money, and pass on the opportunity of a lifetime. It is not our job to make these people wealthy.

"With 190 countries, 17 currencies and 150 million accounts worldwide"

https://www.paypal.com/uk/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=xpt/Marketing/general/CrossBorderHowToPrintable-outside

So lets think...

1.)If a fraction of these people had 1 btc in their account at any point the price would be through the roof.  Has to right we all agree on that at least.

2.)Paypal for some reason are keen to use BTC why is this? because they need the btc economy so much?..... hmmm doubt it - basically not that.  Because its more profitable and efficient for them to use BTC vs fiat... bingo.  It also means they can branch out to the unbanked - perfect timing with mobile payment stuff.  

3.)Paypal will nudge all their customers towards BTC for reasons in #2


So...to summarize paypal love BTC they arent just goofing off and they arent just doing us all a favor, they are serious about BTC.

 ;D

but I'd rather these guys get rich vs baby boomers.

Yes they basically do, they have room to pull out right now yes but they already care, huge payment companies dont mess about like this they are serious.

A true nerd cares more about technology than power.

At least now we know that even if it's the same people that had most of the wealth comming to BTC and owning most of the BTC, they will not be able to create BTC out of thin air.

But nerds know their enemy.

What's the advantage of paying with BTC on paypal rather than fiat? They still charge you.
Isn't the whole point of BTC to avoid charges?
And more generally, why would I want to pay with BTC when my credit card provides me with protection (charge backs)? BTC payments are unprotected.
And BTC-USD exchange costs are high.
Why would I ever want to spend my BTC?

Surely BTC is just a speculative vehicle.

Paypal have to charge more with fiat though since they have greater admin costs dealing with deposits and cash outs in fiat.

I would think they will charge something for providing a user friendly hub for BTC transactions but cheaper fees to will reflect their savings vs fiat.

i sure hope, they will push btc price to the moon.

that will be long term it might take yrs. i just hope the price will be stable for now

As big players with big names enters, their wealth is on the line, so they will do whatever is on their hands to try to keep the price going on henceforth. Remember, whales are our friends, as long as whales are here for long term purposes.

From the point of view of merchants using Bitcoin as a medium of exchange, they don't care what the long term price trend is. They just need the volatility to be low enough that the price doesn't change too much before they can dump the Bitcoins.