Bitcoin Forum

Economy => Goods => Topic started by: RaggedMonk on May 04, 2012, 06:43:42 PM



Title: [Bounty] Update: 100BTC for 2 Working Crow Vending Machines
Post by: RaggedMonk on May 04, 2012, 06:43:42 PM
Watch this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhmZBMuZ6vE

I want a crow vending machine, exactly like the one in the video.

Can you build this for me?  I'll pay 40BTC for a working one.

I will want to escrow the funds with someone reputable, to be released upon receiving and successfully testing the machine.

It should be able to do all 4 steps on this page:
http://www.josh.is/crow-machine/

UPDATE:
I'll pay 20 BTC for a video of a working crow vending machine, verified with a sign including your username and "Bitcointalk"
Then, I'll pay 40 BTC to buy it from you.
And Inaba, also wants one (presumably at same price?)

100 BTC total for building two crow vending machines.


Title: Re: WTB Crow Vending Machine for 40BTC
Post by: REF on May 04, 2012, 07:30:36 PM
Shouldnt be to bad. 2 motors, motion sensor, some way to detect coin deposits(?). Looks like it has 2 separate reservoirs one with coins, one with peanuts, depending on the stage you can turn the motor for the door on/off or keep the coin reservoir empty. Well there are several ways to go about this and change/configure the machine for each stage. the last being the easiest only needing a motor and a way to detect coin deposits.

I think you should offer 40BTC + parts and shipping. You should say how big you want it too. shoe box size, PC case, or larger?


Title: Re: WTB Crow Vending Machine for 40BTC
Post by: Global BTC on May 04, 2012, 07:51:01 PM
If you want to build one yourself, I have a few Arduino Nanos for sale. Cheap!


Title: Re: WTB Crow Vending Machine for 40BTC
Post by: grue on May 04, 2012, 11:14:14 PM
are you looking to turn a profit on this, or just doing it for fun?


Title: Re: WTB Crow Vending Machine for 40BTC
Post by: deepceleron on May 05, 2012, 02:14:03 AM
The only thing you should be doing with that feeder is blasting the crows in the face with a shotgun. Like Norway rats, they are an invasive species almost everywhere, having followed the filth of humans, and displace native songbirds.


Title: Re: WTB Crow Vending Machine for 40BTC
Post by: rjk on May 05, 2012, 02:26:33 AM
The only thing you should be doing with that feeder is blasting the crows in the face with a shotgun. Like Norway rats, they are an invasive species almost everywhere, having followed the filth of humans, and displace native songbirds.
I'm not sure where you are, but I never see too may of them around here. Just enough to remind you that they exist. They are extremely smart; they can be taught many tricks, and are actually able to do some limited vocalization like a parrot. However, they are also extremely vindictive, if you piss one off it will never forgive you.


Title: Re: WTB Crow Vending Machine for 40BTC
Post by: John (John K.) on May 05, 2012, 03:00:03 AM
are you looking to turn a profit on this, or just doing it for fun?
Turn a profit? How much peanuts you'll need to sell one day to the crows for that?  ;D


Title: Re: WTB Crow Vending Machine for 40BTC
Post by: REF on May 05, 2012, 03:10:06 AM
If you left it out I'm sure you would make money.  Google search says $56/50lbs of shelled peanuts. I'm sure you could break $200 a year in profit.

It's be cool if states could put these around in parks but I'm positive they would be vandalized.


Title: Re: WTB Crow Vending Machine for 40BTC
Post by: adamstgBit on May 05, 2012, 05:06:36 AM
every city should have a few of these

one for coins, one for cigarette buts...

it might not turn a profit, but it would clean up the streets  ;)


Title: Re: WTB Crow Vending Machine for 40BTC
Post by: edd on May 05, 2012, 05:14:38 AM
I think you should offer 40BTC + parts and shipping. You should say how big you want it too. shoe box size, PC case, or larger?
I agree. It seems the parts alone would probably cost more than 40 BTC.


Title: Re: WTB Crow Vending Machine for 40BTC
Post by: edd on May 05, 2012, 05:57:44 AM
If you left it out I'm sure you would make money.  Google search says $56/50lbs of shelled peanuts. I'm sure you could break $200 a year in profit.

It's be cool if states could put these around in parks but I'm positive they would be vandalized.

Put it on top of a building where it can't be seen by an observer on the ground. No one has to know it's there but the crows.


Title: Re: WTB Crow Vending Machine for 40BTC
Post by: Global BTC on May 05, 2012, 06:55:14 AM
every city should have a few of these

one for coins, one for cigarette buts...

it might not turn a profit, but it would clean up the streets  ;)

Ahh, the street coins. Always an annoyance when I go into town.


Title: Re: WTB Crow Vending Machine for 40BTC
Post by: Garr255 on May 05, 2012, 07:04:59 AM
That is really awesome. I hope you get this built!


Title: Re: WTB Crow Vending Machine for 40BTC
Post by: edd on May 05, 2012, 07:19:49 AM
The trickiest part will be getting the machine to differentiate between cigarette butts and twigs or leaves.


Title: Re: WTB Crow Vending Machine for 40BTC
Post by: Global BTC on May 05, 2012, 07:46:06 AM
Maybe the differentiation could be done with a camera and some image recognition?


Title: Re: WTB Crow Vending Machine for 40BTC
Post by: dmcurser on May 05, 2012, 12:16:34 PM
or via chemical comp


Title: Re: WTB Crow Vending Machine for 40BTC
Post by: John (John K.) on May 05, 2012, 12:41:43 PM
The trickiest part will be getting the machine to differentiate between cigarette butts and twigs or leaves.
Maybe the differentiation could be done with a camera and some image recognition?
or via chemical comp

Or plainly via the way coin-vending machine works.


Title: Re: WTB Crow Vending Machine for 40BTC
Post by: REF on May 05, 2012, 01:31:19 PM
If you left it out I'm sure you would make money.  Google search says $56/50lbs of shelled peanuts. I'm sure you could break $200 a year in profit.

It's be cool if states could put these around in parks but I'm positive they would be vandalized.

Put it on top of a building where it can't be seen by an observer on the ground. No one has to know it's there but the crows.
I had the same idea on top of buildings especially in the city. birds are up there all the time anyway and it will keep squirrels away as well. In your backyard you would attract to much wild life.

The only thing I cant figure out is how to keep the coin slot from getting jammed with other junk.


Title: Re: WTB Crow Vending Machine for 40BTC
Post by: Inaba on May 06, 2012, 01:03:17 AM
I'd pay for one of these, too!


Title: Re: WTB Crow Vending Machine for 40BTC
Post by: Littleshop on May 06, 2012, 01:19:31 AM
Also reward the crows for gold rings.  :)  One of those might make your cost.


Title: Re: WTB Crow Vending Machine for 40BTC
Post by: grue on May 06, 2012, 02:06:02 AM
If you left it out I'm sure you would make money.  Google search says $56/50lbs of shelled peanuts. I'm sure you could break $200 a year in profit.

It's be cool if states could put these around in parks but I'm positive they would be vandalized.
Just put them on ranger stations' roofs, or other hard to reach places
every city should have a few of these

one for coins, one for cigarette buts...

it might not turn a profit, but it would clean up the streets  ;)
for cities, it would effectively replace street cleaners, so it might turn a profit.


Title: Re: WTB Crow Vending Machine for 40BTC
Post by: Inaba on May 06, 2012, 04:46:01 AM
Also reward the crows for gold rings.  :)  One of those might make your cost.

So long as they don't end up dropping in The One Ring... That's all we need, is a Crow with the Eye of Sauron riding around with it. 

My precious...


Title: Re: WTB Crow Vending Machine for 40BTC
Post by: Phinnaeus Gage on May 06, 2012, 05:15:40 AM
Let's take the OP's idea to the nth degree. You know that this can be monetized. First off, use the coins showed below

http://cc2bitcoin.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/800x800/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/m/e/memorydealers_2182_172593749.gif

Now, as far as the vending machine is concerned...

http://needcoffee.cachefly.net/needcoffee/uploads/2008/12/crow-vending-machine.jpg

...one can put a company's logo on the vending machine, something like...

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_V_6Lb5ScJkg/RkfsSxSuxlI/AAAAAAAAAmk/hecO7bQOOx8/s400/crow+vending+machine.jpg

Now that we all have our thinking caps on, which company's logo should be the first? I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest this one:

http://memorydealers.com/skin/frontend/memory-dealers/memory-dealers/images/logo.gif

Now that we have a working crow vending machine in place, video tape the crows feeding the machine with the Memory Dealer logo and put it up on YouTube, as well as all the other video upload sites.

What other bitcoin acceptance sites can you think of that could fit the bill?

One more thing. Make it out of barn wood and have it look something like this:

http://ww1.hdnux.com/photos/13/01/12/2888372/5/628x471.jpg


Title: Re: WTB Crow Vending Machine for 40BTC
Post by: Global BTC on May 06, 2012, 09:28:14 AM
I've been looking the project up a bit more, and it seems like there has been some controversies:
http://kottke.org/09/04/no-vending-machine-for-crows


Title: Re: WTB Crow Vending Machine for 40BTC
Post by: REF on May 06, 2012, 12:03:58 PM
I've been looking the project up a bit more, and it seems like there has been some controversies:
http://kottke.org/09/04/no-vending-machine-for-crows
Well that killed it for me. I wonder why the tests were unsuccessful and why the professor said it wouldn't work.


Title: Re: WTB Crow Vending Machine for 40BTC
Post by: rjk on May 06, 2012, 12:04:51 PM
I've been looking the project up a bit more, and it seems like there has been some controversies:
http://kottke.org/09/04/no-vending-machine-for-crows
Well that killed it for me. I wonder why the tests were unsuccessful and why the professor said it wouldn't work.
Yeah it's definitely <citation needed> for both the advocates and the detractors.


Title: Re: WTB Crow Vending Machine for 40BTC
Post by: RaggedMonk on May 14, 2012, 08:55:59 PM
Hmmm, well seems like this project may be harder than I initially thought. 

Alternatively, if someone can create a working prototype and record a video of a crow successfully exchanging a coin for a peanut, I'll send them 20BTC. Please include your username and "bitcointalk" on a sign in the video, just to be sure its actually you.

My previous offer still stands (after seeing the good video, I'll buy it for an additional 40BTC).  I would like you to include plans.


Title: Re: WTB Crow Vending Machine for 40BTC
Post by: Inaba on May 14, 2012, 08:59:19 PM
I would pay for one as well, just want to reiterate that.  So that's two guaranteed sales of a working CVM.


Title: Re: WTB Crow Vending Machine for 40BTC
Post by: REF on May 15, 2012, 12:09:20 AM
Hmmm, well seems like this project may be harder than I initially thought. 

Alternatively, if someone can create a working prototype and record a video of a crow successfully exchanging a coin for a peanut, I'll send them 20BTC. Please include your username and "bitcointalk" on a sign in the video, just to be sure its actually you.

My previous offer still stands (after seeing the good video, I'll buy it for an additional 40BTC).  I would like you to include plans.
it would take a while for the crows to become a custom to this. Id say more then a years worth of time to go through all 4 stages. IF you want a machine with just the last stage thats not so difficult.


Title: Re: [Bounty] Update: 100BTC for 2 Working Crow Vending Machines
Post by: RaggedMonk on May 15, 2012, 12:20:14 AM
OP updated

Hmmm, well seems like this project may be harder than I initially thought. 

Alternatively, if someone can create a working prototype and record a video of a crow successfully exchanging a coin for a peanut, I'll send them 20BTC. Please include your username and "bitcointalk" on a sign in the video, just to be sure its actually you.

My previous offer still stands (after seeing the good video, I'll buy it for an additional 40BTC).  I would like you to include plans.
it would take a while for the crows to become a custom to this. Id say more then a years worth of time to go through all 4 stages. IF you want a machine with just the last stage thats not so difficult.

The stages are key: they are what teaches the crows to use the machine. 

The reason why I am offering such a high bounty for the video (20BTC!) is because there is now doubt about whether this can be done.  I don't expect this to be a "quick buck", but rather a parts plus a small stipend for an interested hobbyist.


Title: Re: [Bounty] Update: 100BTC for 2 Working Crow Vending Machines
Post by: Inaba on May 15, 2012, 12:32:27 AM
It was my understanding that the "finished" product was all there was to it, and you stage the crows around the machine.  I don't think the machine is any different in the stages, you just scatter some peanuts around the machine... then when the crows are comfortable with htat, you scatter some coins and put some peanuts on the machine.

Then put a coin on the machine or some such and a peanut in the hopper... then when they figure out a coin going in the machine yields a peanut, there you go.


Title: Re: [Bounty] Update: 100BTC for 2 Working Crow Vending Machines
Post by: RaggedMonk on May 15, 2012, 12:54:01 AM
It was my understanding that the "finished" product was all there was to it, and you stage the crows around the machine.  I don't think the machine is any different in the stages, you just scatter some peanuts around the machine... then when the crows are comfortable with htat, you scatter some coins and put some peanuts on the machine.

Then put a coin on the machine or some such and a peanut in the hopper... then when they figure out a coin going in the machine yields a peanut, there you go.


Klein built his with a 4-learning-stage shaping procedure, but if those stages aren't necessary, even better.  I'll pay whoever can successfully train crows to use it, however that is.  (Could be totally different design)


Title: Re: [Bounty] Update: 100BTC for 2 Working Crow Vending Machines
Post by: TECSHARE on May 15, 2012, 12:43:33 PM
Wow you are really serious about this! I might draw out some prototypes to see how difficult it would be. Another issue is placing the device in an area where it will be used by crows, but not invaded by all other sorts of creatures. How does the device differentiate between a crow and a hawk, or say a crow and a squirrel? You could solve the squirrel problem with a weight gauge, but what about a hawk of comparable size? Smaller birds?


Title: Re: [Bounty] Update: 100BTC for 2 Working Crow Vending Machines
Post by: REF on May 15, 2012, 01:47:10 PM
Wow you are really serious about this! I might draw out some prototypes to see how difficult it would be. Another issue is placing the device in an area where it will be used by crows, but not invaded by all other sorts of creatures. How does the device differentiate between a crow and a hawk, or say a crow and a squirrel? You could solve the squirrel problem with a weight gauge, but what about a hawk of comparable size? Smaller birds?
necessary waste during the first 3 stages. During the 4th stage if an animal isnt smart enough to drop a coin in the slot he wont get a peanut, eventually those animals who cant figure it out would stop coming by.

An area away from humans is more important. If people are constantly walking by it and touching it less animals will drop by.


Title: Re: [Bounty] Update: 100BTC for 2 Working Crow Vending Machines
Post by: TECSHARE on May 15, 2012, 02:04:40 PM
I guess my point is if a bunch of squirrels eat all the nuts before you get a crow, experiment over. Either that or constant babysitting.


Title: Re: [Bounty] Update: 100BTC for 2 Working Crow Vending Machines
Post by: Inaba on May 15, 2012, 02:13:46 PM
Yeah, there will have to be constant babysitting in the beginning.  I don't think there's a good method to keep out other animals that would increase the complexity drastically.  Though I'd certainly not mind the possibility if someone has a brainstorm.


Title: Re: [Bounty] Update: 100BTC for 2 Working Crow Vending Machines
Post by: edd on May 15, 2012, 02:23:11 PM
I still think a rooftop is the best location. Squirrels don't often climb buildings and from what I've seen, crows are pretty good at discouraging other birds away from a food source. Even if there are power lines or some other easy access for squirrels, a fence made of the proper materials would probably keep them out.


Title: Re: [Bounty] Update: 100BTC for 2 Working Crow Vending Machines
Post by: dropt on May 15, 2012, 03:14:40 PM
Interesting, you guys really are serious.  I'm interested in building this, but I'm don't have the time/not interested in trying to train the black bastards to actually use it.   If you guys just want a working unit as far as the mechanics and electronics go I could start piecing it together and let you know if it's feasible (cost wise).


Title: Re: [Bounty] Update: 100BTC for 2 Working Crow Vending Machines
Post by: Inaba on May 15, 2012, 03:26:38 PM
I just want a working unit, I'll handle the bird training :)


Title: Re: [Bounty] Update: 100BTC for 2 Working Crow Vending Machines
Post by: rjk on May 15, 2012, 03:29:10 PM
I just want a working unit, I'll handle the bird training :)
Well I guess what he is pointing out is that the machine is supposed to handle the training, and that part of it might be annoying to create. However, an easy one would be to just make the machine work on step 4.

Or maybe the machine could handle all 4 modes, but would require manual intervention to switch between modes?


Title: Re: [Bounty] Update: 100BTC for 2 Working Crow Vending Machines
Post by: edd on May 15, 2012, 03:39:02 PM
I notice that Josh says a kit might be available soon: http://www.josh.is/crow-machine/#comment-1544


Title: Re: [Bounty] Update: 100BTC for 2 Working Crow Vending Machines
Post by: RaggedMonk on May 15, 2012, 06:25:18 PM
I notice that Josh says a kit might be available soon: http://www.josh.is/crow-machine/#comment-1544


Awesome!  Just emailed him about the kit.  I'll keep this thread posted.


Title: Re: [Bounty] Update: 100BTC for 2 Working Crow Vending Machines
Post by: RaggedMonk on May 15, 2012, 06:26:52 PM
I guess my point is if a bunch of squirrels eat all the nuts before you get a crow, experiment over. Either that or constant babysitting.

Squirrels will only be a problem for the first few stages (where you leave food by the machine to get them to come over to it), but Josh found that the squirrels weren't able to learn to deposit coins.  So presumably, once you get the first few crows trained, squirrels will no longer be a problem.


Title: Re: [Bounty] Update: 100BTC for 2 Working Crow Vending Machines
Post by: RaggedMonk on May 15, 2012, 06:31:30 PM
Interesting, you guys really are serious.  I'm interested in building this, but I'm don't have the time/not interested in trying to train the black bastards to actually use it.   If you guys just want a working unit as far as the mechanics and electronics go I could start piecing it together and let you know if it's feasible (cost wise).

Because there are some intricacies, like whether the sound of the machine scares the birds, whether the coin slot can avoid clogs from being outside for a period, etc., I'd like a tested machine.  If you build one for Inaba and he can train them, I'll send him the 20BTC for the video, and buy another from you for 40 (assuming Josh Klein doesn't get back to me first).

If I end up buying directly from him, I'll still honor half my video bounty, of 10BTC for anyone else who can demonstrate a working crow vending machine with a bitcointalk sign in the video.

One day, I hope to see a world where man and crow engage in mutually beneficial commerce in hundreds of cities around the world. :-)


Title: Re: [Bounty] Update: 100BTC for 2 Working Crow Vending Machines
Post by: dropt on May 17, 2012, 03:46:16 PM
I just want a working unit, I'll handle the bird training :)
Well I guess what he is pointing out is that the machine is supposed to handle the training, and that part of it might be annoying to create. However, an easy one would be to just make the machine work on step 4.

Or maybe the machine could handle all 4 modes, but would require manual intervention to switch between modes?

My initial brainstorm would require user intervention to switch between modes since we don't really have an idea of how long each stage needs to operate for proper training.  I suppose the stage timing could be automated (with adjustable time periods)


Title: Re: [Bounty] Update: 100BTC for 2 Working Crow Vending Machines
Post by: Inaba on May 17, 2012, 06:09:14 PM
I think it would have to necessarily require user intervention, since it would be different timing for any given set of birds.


Title: Re: [Bounty] Update: 100BTC for 2 Working Crow Vending Machines
Post by: TECSHARE on May 17, 2012, 08:19:08 PM
The stages could be automatically set based upon the weight of the hopper (peanuts removed) and the frequency of coin drops.