Bitcoin Forum

1) bitcoin CAN be created in unlimited amounts, in the form of alternate crypto currencies, because the alternates serve the exact (if not better) functions/purposes that bitcoin does.  Sure there won't be more than 21 million "bitcoins" in the universe, but there can (and will if bitcoin is mass adopted) be infinite amounts of cryptos just like bitcoin.  It is only a matter of time.  In this sense, bitcoin is no different from tulip bulbs, granite rocks, etc.

2) gold cannot be re created.  There is only a set amount of gold in the universe (unless you create it at the atomic level which will cost much more than the gold created).

3) in this sense, bitcoin ultimately is not inflation free and is not unlimited.  People will start to adopt bitcoin, and ultimately crypto currencies in general.  New and better crypto currencies will inevitably develop and hence inflation happens in due time.  And price starts to free fall.


The protocol of gold can be replicated as well.  However, gold is rare.  That is why rare stones and gems have value.  Alternates are not rare, and are unlimited.  I could tomorow create a new "coin" with same functions/protocols as bitcoin.

I believe some cryptos are already being pegged to real assets such as precious metals as big bullion is,  you can always turn in your BIG for bullion.

There are also assets that cryptos can be pegged to, so unlike fiat which is not pegged to anything,  crypto and crypto assets I think can and are pegged to real world assets, much as the dollar once used to be pegged to gold.

you might want to check out bitshares   peer coin,   nxt,    master coin's colored coins,    counter party as some 2 generation cryptos that are moving in this real world asset direction.

Altcoins are not bitcoin. Scamcoins do not offer any substantial benefits that bitcoin does not offer.

1) This isn't the fault of Bitcoin and the same can be said of gold or platinum.

2) Gold cannot be created but it's still being 'mined' as is Bitcoin. There IS a limited number of Bitcoin.

3) This isn't a point, it's more like a summary of 1 and 2.

Do you know anything about Bitcoin?

Probably but he his just a desperate short seller bear troll...

There is NOT a limited amount of alternate coins, which are NO different from bitcoin....  In that sense, bitcoin is unlimited.  Bitcoin picked up steam because of the protocol not because of the cute name.  The protocol can be re created again and again.  

How much are all the other non-bitcoin alternate crypto currencies worth? Combined? (I've not bothered to look, actually.)

Doesn't matter how much it is worth right now... as long as it performs the same functions as bitcoin... the value of the alternates and bitcoin will inevitably be closer and closer in the future.  There is a unlimited supply of alternates.

There isn't a limited amount of steel, which is NO different to gold. In that sense gold is unlimited.


WHAT?  ???

not analogous, figure out why.

There is a set amount of anything that is accessible in the universe, including energy and computing power.
Gold (and other metals) will be plentiful once we mine asteroids, and that may not be that far off... (fair warning to gold bugs, this will happen in our lifetimes)

Well, let's see, currently the market cap of the following are:

BTC = 5.4 billion USD

The next 500 alt-coins combined = 581 million USD

You may have a point. (I'm not being sarcastic.)

However, the average market cap for each individual alt-coin is very low compared to bitcoin.

It has been hypothesized that the market cap of the altcoins takes away from the market cap from bitcoin. Therefore the ~580 million market cap from altcoins lowers the market cap of bitcoin by an equal amount and creating an additional altcoin would only take away from the total max market cap of all altcoins

Overstock sells many things for bitcoins... and DELL and Tigerdirect and .. and .. and..
Why don't you create unlimited amounts of bitcoins "in the form of alternate crypto currencies" and go buy EVERYTHING!  :o

Are you saying that alternate coins are no different from Bitcoin? Good, so try sending 0.01 BTC to this address: DCLJBPdkp51ckcHHobM2WknCTu9LTUMBXi.

And tell me when you have succeded doing so.

dude read more about bitcoin. What u`r saying it`s like..I take a piece of iron, I paint it in gold color. Whould you buy it at gold price?

so then by the same reasoning, monopoly money is just as good as real dollars, right?

Any clone is a clone and no longer bitcoin, thus the number of bitcoin is limited. There might be other successfull cryptos. Bitcoin is different from tulpis in that tulpis have a possible unlimited supply as well as a limited lifetime. I dont even understand the comparison other than that you are trying to hint at the first known instance of a price crash.


Gold can be created, it fact there are facilities that actually do that right now. Also if we assume an infinity universe (not a loopback infinity one, but proper endless as natural numbers) there is an infinity supply of gold, the question is only how expensive it is to get. Wasnt there is planet which is just a big diamond? Maybe our universe is not infinity but for our small minds it might just as well be. Bitcoin is very different as the hard coded rules dictate that there will be 20999999.9769 BTC unless there is a fork, which will result in an alt coin unless the majority of bitcoin users decide to follow the fork.


In this sense, you confuse cryptocurrencies as a whole with bitcoin, a very specific cryptocurrencies with very specific rules.


No you cant. Bitcoin is more than just the code you would copy. Your copycoin would never reach the adoption rate of bitcoin, thats what makes 1 bitcoin so expensive and all those other "new" and "better" coins so worthless. I can spend bitcoin in so many ways, but your copycoin? Nope, not accepted here.

That would create a Bitcoin paradise....

Wow you guys are morons.  sure any other crypto won't have value right off the bat.  i'm talking about many years down the line here.  When the bitcoin network, protocol, system, idea can be duplicated instantly... then bitcoin is nothing special at all in the long run.

IF or when the government collapses, USD will be similar in value to MND's.

and lol @ mining asteroids for gold... you must really into science fiction... because that shit is similar to creating gold at the atomic level...  cost of creating an asteroid mining spaceship = 1203803948203580239852 ounces of gold.... lol!   all the gold present in asteroids in milky way : 1232222 ounces...

Bitcoin is special because it is the first and best known, its is special because it allready has what your copycoin may have in the long future.



The point was: Gold is not finite, just very rare, bitcoin however is.

May not be science fiction for much longer :) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asteroid_mining#Proposed_mining_projects

And precious metals are quite common in asteroids, the gold we mine on earth was brought by asteroids after the earth crust cooled http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091018141608.htm

there does appear to be some decent altcoins though others have some serious vunerabilities and its reflected in the price

alt coins don't make bitcoin any less significant

blah blah blah

people use dollars, and you can repliate them as much as you like.

you can also make alternative bank notes that use the same protocols and technology. these are called pound, euro ruble, rand, yuan, yen, guilder, peso, boliviano, lev, pula. real, colon, kuna, koruna, krone, kroon, cedi, Quetzal, lempira, rupee, krona, forint, Shekel, rupiah, rial, Tenge, won, lat, kip, som, ringgit, denar, tughrik, matikal, cordoba

.. more blah blah blah.. cant be arsed listing them all, in short there are 180 official legal tenders of the world..

as for you comparing bitcoins to tulips..

what your analogy should have been was that bitcoin a tulip, and litecoin was a rose, and peer coins were dafodils, and feather coin was a sunflower..

which i would have then replied tulips can be reproduced unlimited thus proving bitcoins and the entire colony of altcoins are NOT flowers because although they're  different 'strains' of cryptocurrency.. each strain cannot be unlimited reproduced.!!

bitcoin and the other colonies of crypto currency cannot be endlessly printed within their colony's (country/blockchain) thus cryptocurrencies are nothing like legal tender.

as for the gold analogy:
gold is its own element, its own features and benefits. you cannot passoff silver as being gold, you cant even pass off white gold as being the same as normal yellow gold. that are all unique.
same with crypto currencies.. you cannot say that litecoin is bitcoin, a litecoin transaction cannot be used on the bitcoin blockchain much like copper cant be used for the same as gold, without people seeing the differences,

although gold and copper are both brought into circulation the same way ( digging from the ground) although legal tender is brought into circulation the same way. they are all unique to each other. just like bitcoin and other altcoins.

so please try harder to understand bitcoins benefits over fiat and precious metals

okay how about just focus on this: THE MOST VALUABLE ASPECT(S) OF BITCOIN CAN BE REPLICATED, hence in the grander scheme of things, bitcoin is not much more valuable than any other crypto currency.

Yeah, just like you could replicate Verizon's network technology and then sell people phones and plans for the same prices as Verizon! Oh wait, no, that's retarded, Verizon has a huge established network to leverage for this, and you have none.

In fact, you couldn't be more wrong. (http://trilema.com/2014/the-woes-of-altcoin-or-why-there-is-no-such-thing-as-cryptocurrencies/) There is only one cryptocurrency. All the others are irrelevant.

Enough chit chat. Why don't you just create a hundred crypto currencies so that Bitcoin loses value and thus you prove us wrong?

The most valuable aspect of Bitcoin by far is the network. Bitcoin the most powerful computer network on Earth securing it. That, you cannot replicate. But good luck trying!

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll36/Bigsteve87/Gifs/tumblr_lnf69dcAvv1qh3j4zo1_500.gif

This thread sounds so 2011.
There is only one Bitcoin and there are countless altcoins.
Altcoins similar to Bitcoins are experiments at best: if they prove to bring about a useful feature or improvements, then it can be proposed as a BIP and integrated into Bitcoin.

If altcoins are radically different from Bitcoin by design, like PoS coins that are in fact fiat currencies in disguise, then they do not dilute the money supply of Bitcoins.

You don't take into account network strength as a factor.

/thread

Nope, the PoW network is actually the biggest weakness of Bitcoin, and its insane perpetual expense may be the biggest cause for Bitcoin to fail.

The most valuable aspect of Bitcoin, is its scale, which means people have faith in it. Without people's faith, all your PoW is meaningless and useless.

Network effect and consumer/producer/speculator ecology system from bitcoin still count for something.

Also, infrastructure to support bitcoin is way greater than any alt coin out there.

Copper was used as currencty because cold was to rare gold never dropped in price due to this.  No one wants shit coin #1834983 or shit coin #11 or shit coin #1994 they want Bitcoin.

Your argument = Annhiliated have a fun day.

In a related development, black is now white and up is now down.  ::)

exactly. 

just think :  why is facebook the most valuable social network on the planet by FAR...and everyone else is a distant second...

Certain kinds of networks serve people better when they are big and fewer in number, and thats why it is so difficult to
overtake them.  Why do think Facebook P/E has been so high?  It's because of the network effect and because it CANNOT be
easily replicated.

Trying to supplant bitcoin with an altcoin is just as hard as trying to start a new website that will overtake facebook. 

You can replicate the protocol, but you have no way to replicate the hash power and network, which is the physical foundation of bitcoin. Altcoins do not have so strong physical foundation like bitcoin, so they are more like software which can be endlessly copied and worth nothing in turn

Actually it is this physical foundation gave bitcoin value. Imagine that someday bitcoin forked to another protocol without using sha256 hashing, then some other coin which uses sha256 hashing will utilize all these physical infrastructure and become as valuable, just like those GPUs abandoned by bitcoin miners turned to litecoin mining instead

Then why does many Proof of Stake altcoin that doesn't need any hash rate, also has value? In fact they have mostly beaten their PoW altcoin competitors. Only Bitcoin and Litecoin has more value, but they also had 3-4 years head start. I would bet Litecoin will soon be beaten, in a year or so. How do you explain these PoS networks all growing in value?

Wow, that was easy said men and died shortly after on a zebra crossing.

LMAO LOL how in the hell do you plan on convincing all of the miners to insta turn on BTC and jump over to Xiaoxiaocoin ..?

sheeple selling bags of manure and telling people its 'miracle grow'..

I agree with you sentiment somewhat, but what a horrible metaphor. Any farmer or grower can attest that bags of manure are fantastic fertilizer and is "miracle grow.". I prefer chicken manure and worm castings(worm waste) in my mixes. In other words, bags of shit are great!

Speculation. People are willing to invest in scamcoins with the hope that their value will increase over time. Just because a coin has been in existence for a long time does not mean that it will have a higher market cap then a similar coin that has been around for a shorter time.

I don't think you guys understand the long term repercussions of a protocol that can be limitlessly replicated.  One thinks that bitcoin has an edge over all other cryptos, but when something can be replicated so easily, you can bet that other cryptos and new ones coming out will inevitably start gaining ground.  And this will make the value of bitcoin depreciate.  We're talking about ENDLESS replicas that can be better than bitcoin coming out, for as long as we inhabit this planet.

You're still forgetting about the network effect. The Internet Protocol is easily replicated, but if I wanted to do an INTERNET 2.0 from scratch, I would have a hard time doing so.

The network is going to be weakening by the hour. Because miners sold houses and cars to buy equipment/coins.

That's the exact opposite of weakening, because more and more people are participating in Bitcoin.

And now they can't afford it so they must abandon.

Paintings can also be endlessly replicated, all you need is some frame, cloth, paints, brushes, etc.

Peter Paul Rubens was even involved in replicating his own paintings. Yet after his death his paintings mostly appreciate in value.

After the last bitcoin gets mined in a hundred years or so, the available bitcoins will only gain in value, even if just to be shown in museums as an example of an ancient cryptocurrency.

There is some value in simply being first in doing something in a certain, very specific way, of doing something and in being first to popularize that particular way of doing that. When compared to Rubens' paintings Bitcoin has an advantage of being self-authenticating and cheaper to transport.

Exactly. When you make a copy of something it is not as valuable as the original and only affects the value of the original marginally. The more copies of the original are made, the less valuable each additional copy becomes, however the cost to copy will remain the same.

As people create additional scam coins the expected value for the dev will be lower for each additional coin that is created while the cost to create each additional coin will remain the same (or potentially increase due to higher demand for resources needed to create the scam coins)

I think Xiaoxiao is just debating for the sake of debating  ;D

(Otherwise he really doesn't understand how people value a currency and the difficulties in establishing one).

Not the same at all.  Painting is all about the aesthetic value; it is an art.  Bitcoin is about the coding, protocol, and construct... and obviously adoption.  Adoption takes time, the rest can be replicated in a heart beat and made much better.

“Adoption takes time.” Here. This is the important idea. Bitcoin adoption is far beyond the altcoins because it was the first and has the most time for people to start adopting it. You can't just compete with Bitcoin unless you have an actually innovative idea (which “replicating” certainly is not).

Chinese replicate everything.. :)

If you dont invest responsible, you sometimes have to sell part of your investment under your entry price. Nothing new.

This is why none of the alt coins have ever taken off. Since more people already use bitcoin there is no reason for people to use alternatives that are less secure and harder to use (can be used in less places)