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Other => Politics & Society => Topic started by: sana8410 on September 30, 2014, 04:44:50 PM



Title: Prison for Kicking a Cat?
Post by: sana8410 on September 30, 2014, 04:44:50 PM
Overkill or deserved? I for one cannot see how/who it helps to imprison anyone for animal cruelty. Couldn't the people who abuse animals learn a better lesson if sentenced to working for animals? Wouldn't the activists gain more if these people are put into service of animals?
Quote
Had it been a person he kicked, Mr. Robinson, 22, most likely would have received a quick plea bargain requiring no jail time — if, that is, he had even been arrested. And had he kicked that gray cat a few years ago, a similar outcome might have awaited him.

But now, every time Mr. Robinson has appeared in court in Brooklyn, animal-rights activists have surrounded him, attending his hearings and calling for a jail sentence. He has not even received a plea offer from prosecutors — extremely rare in misdemeanor cases.

Mr. Robinson, with one seemingly unconsidered kick, has unwittingly placed himself at the center of an impassioned, growing debate.

On one side are the activists. Once dismissed as cat ladies or fringe do-gooders, they have come to wield real power through funding, organization and a focus on legal remedies for animal abuse. They have embraced social-media campaigns; offered rewards to potential witnesses to animal abuse; trained prosecutors; and made inroads in pushing law enforcement across the country to arrest, and seek jail time for, animal abusers.

Yet lawyers defending the accused say that punishment in such cases can seem disproportionate to the crime when an animal is the victim.

At the moment, the activists seem to be winning the fight. The Federal Bureau of Investigation announced this month that it would track animal abuse as a separate crime, rather than lumping it in the “other” category.

In New York City, the Police Department took over responsibility for animal abuse complaints in January, and created an Animal Cruelty Investigation Squad. Arrests for animal abuse increased about 250 percent through September, compared with the same period last year.

And the Brooklyn district attorney, Kenneth P. Thompson, said the Robinson case, which is to go to trial on Wednesday, was “indicative of my determination to be strong on folks who think they can just abuse any type of animal.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/30/nyregion/animal-abuse-gains-traction-as-a-serious-crime-with-jail-more-often-the-result.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&version=HpSumSmallMediaHigh&module=second-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0


Title: Re: Prison for Kicking a Cat?
Post by: Swordsoffreedom on September 30, 2014, 04:53:12 PM
I would say give the guy some community service or something
If he kicked a human probably would get something similar to that or made to pay damages or a fine

Hmmm offered rewards to potential witnesses to animal abuse; trained prosecutors; and made inroads in pushing law enforcement across the country to arrest, and seek jail time for, animal abusers.

I could argue that he is under duress right now and that his right to a fair trial is impeded by the funding of animal rights activists given the information provided about this case XD.

Also known as this is an incentive based case


Title: Re: Prison for Kicking a Cat?
Post by: Lethn on September 30, 2014, 05:04:43 PM
Normally I think animal rights activists are full of shit and are just making a big deal out of nothing, but some people like this are just sick, the worse one I've seen is of people who post up videos of torturing their own animals and stuff. If we don't stop them, what the hell else will happen? They could be just sadists that are trying to take advantage of the fact that there's no law against torturing animals. It's not like these things are goats trying to run around and headbutt people or a bear trying to tear out your throat which I'd completely understand but these people are just going around beating up relatively defenceless and harmless animals.

I can understand cats can be annoying and persistent fucks sometimes, I own two myself, but people who go out of their way to hit them and attack them are just being ridiculous, especially when shutting a door defeats them entirely, some of the stuff people do to animals would be called torture if they were done to humans.


Title: Re: Prison for Kicking a Cat?
Post by: noviapriani on September 30, 2014, 05:13:23 PM
What is this man doing kicking a cat?  That is animal abuse!!!!!  I would severely beat any person who kicked my cat.  He deserves any punishment he gets!!!!!!


Title: Re: Prison for Kicking a Cat?
Post by: Mr.Bitty on September 30, 2014, 05:20:19 PM
People who abuse animals are one step away from doing the same to people. This sick individual took great joy in inflicting serious injury to this cat,  and even went out of his way to lure the cat in to do it. Do I object to jail time for him? Absolutely not - but I do agree that part of his sentence should be public service at an animal shelter - under the closest of supervision, of course.


Title: Re: Prison for Kicking a Cat?
Post by: Chef Ramsay on September 30, 2014, 05:20:30 PM
I, too, once looked at these animal rights activists as pesky nuisances. In part, because they're usually one dimensional and lack the same concern for human life. However, the degenerate that would go out of their way to hurt a cat or dog or not brake when ducks are crossing the road deserves some type of societal consequences whether it be imprisonment or ostracism. Under the current paradigm, some sort of work program and rehabilitation in prison should help the situation but in a more free market system ostracism and/or a behind the scenes ass beating might suffice.


Title: Re: Prison for Kicking a Cat?
Post by: Justine on September 30, 2014, 05:43:18 PM
People who consume meat products is not that much different than torturing animals. Don't see anyone crying over it.


Title: Re: Prison for Kicking a Cat?
Post by: Lethn on September 30, 2014, 05:46:20 PM
People who consume meat products is not that much different than torturing animals. Don't see anyone crying over it.

You see this is why people tend to hate animal rights activists and not take them seriously, I don't support battery farming or anything like that and a Lion or a Crocodile isn't going to give a shit if you don't eat animals one way or another lets be honest.


Title: Re: Prison for Kicking a Cat?
Post by: sana8410 on September 30, 2014, 06:42:27 PM
People who abuse animals are one step away from doing the same to people. This sick individual took great joy in inflicting serious injury to this cat,  and even went out of his way to lure the cat in to do it. Do I object to jail time for him? Absolutely not - but I do agree that part of his sentence should be public service at an animal shelter - under the closest of supervision, of course.
But even if he did kick someone, the penalty is not a prison term. There is a reason why this country has the most people in the penal system, and the reason is that they do not think that there are alternatives to imprisonment, when to me it is obvious that there are.


Title: Re: Prison for Kicking a Cat?
Post by: PeanutCoins on September 30, 2014, 06:44:18 PM
I can't separate this discussion, animal abuse, from rampant police abuse, which is usually not prosecuted in open court or with only sham prosecution - most often paid vacation at a desk while Internal Investigation promises to look into it...and actually doesn't.  Or a settled lawsuit, whereupon the 'problem citizen' is disposed of with our tax money.  Or maybe eventually gets prosecuted with a 'firing'....to go to another PD somewhere and do it again.


Title: Re: Prison for Kicking a Cat?
Post by: Rigon on September 30, 2014, 06:46:41 PM
People who abuse animals are one step away from doing the same to people. This sick individual took great joy in inflicting serious injury to this cat,  and even went out of his way to lure the cat in to do it. Do I object to jail time for him? Absolutely not - but I do agree that part of his sentence should be public service at an animal shelter - under the closest of supervision, of course.
But even if he did kick someone, the penalty is not a prison term. There is a reason why this country has the most people in the penal system, and the reason is that they do not think that there are alternatives to imprisonment, when to me it is obvious that there are.
yes, if he kicked the cat in the manner described, he should go to prison. People have to be taught--animals are not toys. If a two year old child pulled the dog's tail, that's what parents would tell them; and for the twenty year olds who never learned the lesson, well, they have to learn it.


Title: Re: Prison for Kicking a Cat?
Post by: Rigon on September 30, 2014, 07:00:56 PM
I doubt that prison in really in his future--jail, a year or less, is more likely. He won't lose that much time in acquiring whatever skills someone so evidently doltish needs in life, maybe he'll learn a lesson.

At least he won't walk back into million dollar contracts a la Michael Vick--who should still be banned from the NFL.


Title: Re: Prison for Kicking a Cat?
Post by: sana8410 on September 30, 2014, 07:06:13 PM
How does it help this young man to be imprisoned, when that means that it will impact on his ability to find employment for the rest of his life, and that in turn impacts on whatever family he will have in the future. The judicial system, instead of looking at him as a criminal, can see him as someone in need of a behavior adjustment and help that by making him work with animals.

Nothing changes hearts and minds by having to interact with the people/issues that you have no regard for.


Title: Re: Prison for Kicking a Cat?
Post by: umair127 on September 30, 2014, 07:09:15 PM
A common thread that links most serial killers is deliberate animal abuse. When someone lures an animal in order to do that animal harm, he is an obvious danger to society. BTW, this is not about race . White guys do it too.


Title: Re: Prison for Kicking a Cat?
Post by: sana8410 on September 30, 2014, 07:10:10 PM
A common thread that links most serial killers is deliberate animal abuse. When someone lures an animal in order to do that animal harm, he is an obvious danger to society. BTW, this is not about race . White guys do it too.
No one brought up race but you.


Title: Re: Prison for Kicking a Cat?
Post by: BitCoinNutJob on September 30, 2014, 07:13:45 PM
Quote
Overkill or deserved? I for one cannot see how/who it helps to imprison anyone for animal cruelty. Couldn't the people who abuse animals learn a better lesson if sentenced to working for animals? Wouldn't the activists gain more if these people are put into service of animals?

Maybe but you'd then also need someone to watch over the animal abuser to make sure he doesnt do it again.  Perhaps sending him on unrelated work would be a better choice.


Title: Re: Prison for Kicking a Cat?
Post by: umair127 on September 30, 2014, 07:21:28 PM
BTW, if this guy had lured a child and then kicked that child, he would have gone to prison even longer. The point is that innocent creatures, unable to defend themselves, whether cats, dogs, or children, have to be protected by society, so yes, put the SOB in prison.


Title: Re: Prison for Kicking a Cat?
Post by: Lethn on September 30, 2014, 07:31:50 PM
A common thread that links most serial killers is deliberate animal abuse. When someone lures an animal in order to do that animal harm, he is an obvious danger to society. BTW, this is not about race . White guys do it too.
No one brought up race but you.

LOL Was about to say! Who brought up race?! LMAO! :D


Title: Re: Prison for Kicking a Cat?
Post by: Vod on September 30, 2014, 10:45:38 PM
What is this man doing kicking a cat?  That is animal abuse!!!!!  I would severely beat any person who kicked my cat.  He deserves any punishment he gets!!!!!!

LOL.   Then what?  Someone has to murder you and your immediate family for beating that person?

What good is escalation of violence? 


Title: Re: Prison for Kicking a Cat?
Post by: Fabrizio89 on October 01, 2014, 05:39:53 AM
What is this man doing kicking a cat?  That is animal abuse!!!!!  I would severely beat any person who kicked my cat.  He deserves any punishment he gets!!!!!!

People like you are no better than animal abusers, anyway violence only calls for more violence and beating a person won't make he understand his mistakes. People like this have their minds fucked up, it doesn't make sense to beat them. You have to make a person comprehend what he did, the punishment of him remembering what he was will be much harder for him than withstand some bruises. And if it doesn't work, you put him in conditions to not hurt anybody, trying to make him work anyway so he doesn't just waste resources.


Title: Re: Prison for Kicking a Cat?
Post by: bryant.coleman on October 01, 2014, 05:46:20 AM
Poor people sent to jail for kicking a cat... while rich people like Curt Johnson let off for sexually molesting little girls... great... this world is moving in the right direction.


Title: Re: Prison for Kicking a Cat?
Post by: Bonam on October 01, 2014, 08:27:38 AM
Stupid. No way this deserves jail time. American society is so freaking backwards about what it punishes and what it lets off.


Title: Re: Prison for Kicking a Cat?
Post by: xhomerx10 on October 01, 2014, 08:43:51 AM
I, too, once looked at these animal rights activists as pesky nuisances. In part, because they're usually one dimensional and lack the same concern for human life. However, the degenerate that would go out of their way to hurt a cat or dog or not brake when ducks are crossing the road deserves some type of societal consequences whether it be imprisonment or ostracism. Under the current paradigm, some sort of work program and rehabilitation in prison should help the situation but in a more free market system ostracism and/or a behind the scenes ass beating might suffice.

 Hey Chef,

 I went to Plane Food last week at a stop-over in Heathrow - the food was wonderful but the wait staff was rather aloof.  I had get up from my table to ask for some vinegar and those cute little pots of tomato sauce for my chips at which point they sped up a bit.  When we asked for the bill, the waitress continued to clean other tables nearby for a few minutes and we had to ask a second time.  The thing is it was not busy at all and perhaps they don't realize people dining at Heathrow probably have a plane to catch? They need a tuning up and you're the man to do it.  Go easy on them - they're young and inexperienced.


PS Prison sounds about right for the cat-kicker.


Title: Re: Prison for Kicking a Cat?
Post by: Snail2 on October 01, 2014, 11:29:38 AM
As a cat breeder's husband, and a cat fan myself I'd say the bloke should be sentenced to take the next step and try to do the same on a bigger cat :).

OK, back to the seriousness. There should be a difference between "occasional animal kickers" who did this in the heat of a moment or because of anger (related to the given animal), and those bastards who's torturing animals frequently for their sick amusements. The first can happen with almost all of us, but the second case is the start of a dangerous pattern and sooner or later those guys will carry on with humans. So the first case should be something like community work, the second case should be should be something for psychiatrist (forcefully if needed). 


Title: Re: Prison for Kicking a Cat?
Post by: Lethn on October 01, 2014, 11:32:43 AM
I would probably give them a shorter jail sentence to be fair, since it was only a kick but I do agree the psychopaths need much harsher punishments, I don't think it really matters though to be honest, you don't use violence against other people to take out your anger so why do it on animals?


Title: Re: Prison for Kicking a Cat?
Post by: newflesh on October 01, 2014, 12:30:25 PM
Seems a bit over the top, not a fan of animal cruelty but this seems way too excessive for just a kick.

If the dude is a mentalist then he should be sectioned, not stuck in a prison with the general population.


Title: Re: Prison for Kicking a Cat?
Post by: Pingu on October 01, 2014, 01:01:42 PM
Don't jail him, just give him some rehabilitation. Obviously he needs some anger management classes and maybe some community service. Jailing people for this stuff is ridiculous.


Title: Re: Prison for Kicking a Cat?
Post by: qm7 on October 01, 2014, 01:39:33 PM
I feel as if people who abuse animals lack empathy, which means that it's likely that they'll do it to real people.  Venting your anger on a cat is not any less better than doing such on


Title: Re: Prison for Kicking a Cat?
Post by: Kawada on October 01, 2014, 02:23:20 PM
Jail is too hard as punishment.
Send him to do community service or in a rehabilitation center.


Title: Re: Prison for Kicking a Cat?
Post by: Paya on October 01, 2014, 02:30:18 PM
Prison for kicking a cat... seriously? That's ridiculous. No wonder why America is the second country in the world by number of prisoners: more than 700 for each 100.000 citizens. Only Seychelles beats it. For comparison, "nondemocratic, totalitarian, communist" China has only 170.

There are better ways to fix this young man's behaviour than to send him behind the bars to take lessons from real criminals. Prison is not, and cannot be universal answer to every god damn thing which may look wrong or inappropriate.


Title: Re: Prison for Kicking a Cat?
Post by: xhomerx10 on October 01, 2014, 02:45:10 PM
Poor people sent to jail for kicking a cat... while rich people like Curt Johnson let off for sexually molesting little girls... great... this world is moving in the right direction.

 He's not getting sent to jail.

These New York statutes comprise the state's anti-cruelty provisions.  "Animal" includes every living creature except a human being.  A person who overdrives, overloads, tortures or cruelly beats or unjustifiably injures, maims, mutilates or kills any animal, or deprives any animal of necessary sustenance, food or drink, is guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment for not more than one year, or by a fine of not more than one thousand dollars, or by both.  Exclusions include properly conducted scientific tests, experiments or investigations, involving the use of living animals approved by the state commissioner of health.

 He is facing a year maximum but the current buzz is over the fact that he wasn't offered a plea bargain.  The burden of proof is on the state and the cat is alive and seemingly well so they aren't going to throw the book at him.  


 Johnson's step daughter refused to testify or release her medical records so they wouldnt have had much evidence had the case gone to trial.  In the case of cat-kicker Robinson, there's a video account of the incident posted on social media.  Also, Johnson got 4 years in prison.  So what you wrote has no basis in fact.


Title: Re: Prison for Kicking a Cat?
Post by: zolace on October 01, 2014, 10:56:34 PM
Poor people sent to jail for kicking a cat... while rich people like Curt Johnson let off for sexually molesting little girls... great... this world is moving in the right direction.

 He's not getting sent to jail.

These New York statutes comprise the state's anti-cruelty provisions.  "Animal" includes every living creature except a human being.  A person who overdrives, overloads, tortures or cruelly beats or unjustifiably injures, maims, mutilates or kills any animal, or deprives any animal of necessary sustenance, food or drink, is guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment for not more than one year, or by a fine of not more than one thousand dollars, or by both.  Exclusions include properly conducted scientific tests, experiments or investigations, involving the use of living animals approved by the state commissioner of health.

 He is facing a year maximum but the current buzz is over the fact that he wasn't offered a plea bargain.  The burden of proof is on the state and the cat is alive and seemingly well so they aren't going to throw the book at him.  


 Johnson's step daughter refused to testify or release her medical records so they wouldnt have had much evidence had the case gone to trial.  In the case of cat-kicker Robinson, there's a video account of the incident posted on social media.  Also, Johnson got 4 years in prison.  So what you wrote has no basis in fact.

  IMAO Agreed


Title: Re: Prison for Kicking a Cat?
Post by: lucaspm98 on October 02, 2014, 12:54:39 AM
Who in their right mind would kick a cat? He needs mental help more than jail time.


Title: Re: Prison for Kicking a Cat?
Post by: Bonam on October 02, 2014, 01:03:04 AM
I would probably give them a shorter jail sentence to be fair, since it was only a kick but I do agree the psychopaths need much harsher punishments, I don't think it really matters though to be honest, you don't use violence against other people to take out your anger so why do it on animals?

You don't eat other people either. The hypocrisy and willful blindness to contradictions in how we treat animals makes no sense. What makes a cat different than a cow that kicking the first warrants jail time while slaughtering millions of the second is fine?


Title: Re: Prison for Kicking a Cat?
Post by: Lethn on October 02, 2014, 07:15:57 AM
I would probably give them a shorter jail sentence to be fair, since it was only a kick but I do agree the psychopaths need much harsher punishments, I don't think it really matters though to be honest, you don't use violence against other people to take out your anger so why do it on animals?

You don't eat other people either. The hypocrisy and willful blindness to contradictions in how we treat animals makes no sense. What makes a cat different than a cow that kicking the first warrants jail time while slaughtering millions of the second is fine?

It's not fine, never said it was, however do you actually know about the steps that law abiding people have to take now in order to make sure that the animals are slaughtered quickly so they aren't in much pain when it happens? Since in the UK they actually knock them out with electricity you could argue that they don't even notice by the time it's done. Eating meat though and torturing animals are two different things and if you can't see that then you're quite naive, as I said before, you think a lion is going to give a shit whether you eat animals or not? That self-righteousness isn't going to save you if you come across something carnivorous.

Also, there's plenty of hypocrisy in the way laws towards human beings are enforced, or did you not glance at the section you just posted in for five seconds? These days filesharers get more jail time than murderers and then you have cases of assault being completely ignored and everyone just hoping it goes away, that cat has more rights than people being assaulted do currently ironically and it's because these people don't have an army of lobbyists and prosecutors fighting for them.

Pretty sure there are standards regarding the treatment of farm animals too, especially where I live, but yeah, you can keep insinuating all meat eaters are evil if you like and not have anyone take you seriously because of it, when I look at my diet I actually don't even eat that much meat to begin with LOL.


Title: Re: Prison for Kicking a Cat?
Post by: username18333 on October 02, 2014, 10:08:57 PM
I would probably give them a shorter jail sentence to be fair, since it was only a kick but I do agree the psychopaths need much harsher punishments, I don't think it really matters though to be honest, you don't use violence against other people to take out your anger so why do it on animals?

You don't eat other people either. The hypocrisy and willful blindness to contradictions in how we treat animals makes no sense. What makes a cat different than a cow that kicking the first warrants jail time while slaughtering millions of the second is fine?

It's not fine, never said it was, however do you actually know about the steps that law abiding people have to take now in order to make sure that the animals are slaughtered quickly so they aren't in much pain when it happens? Since in the UK they actually knock them out with electricity you could argue that they don't even notice by the time it's done. Eating meat though and torturing animals are two different things and if you can't see that then you're quite naive, as I said before, you think a lion is going to give a shit whether you eat animals or not? That self-righteousness isn't going to save you if you come across something carnivorous.

Also, there's plenty of hypocrisy in the way laws towards human beings are enforced, or did you not glance at the section you just posted in for five seconds? These days filesharers get more jail time than murderers and then you have cases of assault being completely ignored and everyone just hoping it goes away, that cat has more rights than people being assaulted do currently ironically and it's because these people don't have an army of lobbyists and prosecutors fighting for them.

Pretty sure there are standards regarding the treatment of farm animals too, especially where I live, but yeah, you can keep insinuating all meat eaters are evil if you like and not have anyone take you seriously because of it, when I look at my diet I actually don't even eat that much meat to begin with LOL.
That post addressed its poster's objections to the relative lack of internal inconsistency they perceived within the morals and/or ethics of those they addressed.

That poster's objections were/are based on the more abhorrent conditions where-under livestock may be "raised" within industrialized nations.


Title: Re: Prison for Kicking a Cat?
Post by: BitCoinNutJob on October 03, 2014, 12:19:49 PM
Poor people sent to jail for kicking a cat... while rich people like Curt Johnson let off for sexually molesting little girls... great... this world is moving in the right direction.

If you kick a cat you have a very good chance of injuring it.  Reminds me of this douche bag footballer player:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtxNUTNZzAw

Animal abusers are completely out of touch with nature, life, universe and everything - no joke.  Probably too much time in the concrete jungle.


Title: Re: Prison for Kicking a Cat?
Post by: BADecker on October 03, 2014, 05:02:37 PM
Hey, be nice to animals who are not harming you.

However, if you happen to harm an animal that is owned by someone, pay your debt to that person.

If you harm an animal that is owned by the state, or one that is not owned, here is your protection, in the common law countries, at least:

http://www.myprivateaudio.com/Karl-Lentz.html = Angela Stark's Talkshoe.

http://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5duR4OvEHHxOSdEZhANETw = TrustInAllLaw snippets of Karl's audios.

http://www.broadmind.org/ = Karl's main page.

http://www.unkommonlaw.co.uk/ = Karl's United Kingdom page.

http://www.youtube.com/user/765736/videos?view=0&live_view=500&flow=grid&sort=da = Craig Lynch's snippets page.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOkAHRzuiOA&list=PLHrkQxgz0mg6kUBciD-HIvTXByqjcIZ-D = Ten great Youtube videos, might be the best introduction to Karl.

http://www.talkshoe.com/talkshoe/web/talkCast.jsp?masterId=127469&cmd=tc = Karl's Talkshoe site.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iua56K4Mysk = Karl Lentz - The Brian Bonar Incident - YouTube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdHLHWS4gPE = Lentz-Sense - don't be a More~On - YouTube.


Other Info

http://voidjudgments.com/ = The Secret is most judgments are Void on their face and not merely voidable.

http://educationcenter2000.com/Trinsey-v-Paglario.htm = Trinsey v. Pagliaro - Attorneys cannot "speak" in common law trials if the one who is bringing the suit orders it. Holding from Trinsey v. Pagliaro: "An attorney for the plaintiff cannot admit evidence into the court. He is either an attorney or a witness."

:)


Title: Re: Prison for Kicking a Cat?
Post by: Holysmoke on October 03, 2014, 05:05:41 PM
we need to arrest those pig, chicken and cow abusers now