Bitcoin Forum

I somehow managed to get into the second Beta rollout for Shift Payments, and my card hit my mailbox yesterday. So far, I'm very much impressed. I've used it at a national restaurant chain and at a local retailer, and both transactions went without issue.

The world is rapidly changing, and it's honestly just amazing to see how quickly cryptocurrency is being adopted. It's one thing to talk to other enthusiasts and stash away coins as you can - it's quite another to suddenly be able to use Bitcoin in your daily life.

Consider this - I have my bank account hooked to Coinbase, and I can buy Bitcoin instantly from my phone. Now I've got a Visa card that I can use to spend those same coins, even if the merchant I want to use has never heard of Bitcoin. Sitting in central Virginia, I can literally buy, sell and use Bitcoin more easily than I could Euros.

But, enough of the glowing praise and fanboi diatribe - let's talk limitations.

The card is issued in Japan, and doesn't have my name on it (it says "TAYTWO POINTMEMBER"). The numbers aren't raised. The back is in Japanese. Shift sent a letter with the card explaining these issues, and it's important to understand that it is a BETA PROGRAM. I'm frankly amazed that they've managed to get them out the door so quickly at all. They're working on issuing personalized card with their own design, but didn't want to hold up the Beta program. Awesome :)

The card costs money. I've honestly forgotten how much, but I want to say it was around $50. Their site says this is to help manage demand, and I have to say that I really like that they have come out and said this. A company charging more money to limit demand for their product, then acknowledging that they are doing so? That doesn't seem to happen often in the US, and I'm happy to support such a company.

Their settlement system leaves much to be desired. I have two transactions pending right now, and my Coinbase account has not yet been touched. The funds are spent from my Bitcoin account when the transaction settles 24-48 hours later. If I wanted, I could buy $500 worth of stuff then empty my Coinbase account, sticking Shift with the difference. It *is* a Beta, but this must be fixed before releasing to the public. If Shift is to survive, they must be able to effectively manage their exposure.

They ask for permission to spend unlimited funds from my Coinbase account. I don't generally keep funds in any hosted wallet like that (I use GreenAddress.it for my short-term savings), so it's not an issue for me - but it could be for others. There's no way I'd want to give them access to purchase Bitcoin on my behalf either, althought they have apparently considered it judging by past interviews I've read.

All in all, I'm happy. Bitcoin has come a long way since I got involved, and if Shift can pull this off on a large scale it will literally change the world. We live in exciting times.

https://i.imgur.com/kVzOrXGl.jpg?1 (http://imgur.com/kVzOrXG)

Fees? Change rates?

Best regards,
ilpirata79

That's interesting. How do you "fund" the card? Do they apply a preset limit based on your Coinbase account? If they do how is the tracking for how much you've already spent accomplished? Is there a number or website you can use to see how much is left on the card? Surly you aren't saying the card is limitless?

What are the cards limits? Can you use it on ATMs? What are the ATM limits? Can the card be bought and used anonymously? How exactly does the card get loaded?

http://cardflex.co.jp/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/cardinfo_img01.png
One of these, right?
That's not a debit card. It's a prepaid card. Presumably it's been preloaded with some amount of money. Maybe they'll refill it from your Coinbase account if you use it. Maybe not.  Here's the FAQ from the card issuer. (https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fcardflex.co.jp%2Fforcustomer%2Fabouttaytwocard%2F&edit-text=&act=url) There's a site where you can register the card, then read your balance. It may be that the people behind the Bitcoin scheme have already done that, and they're monitoring balances and refilling. Or not.

Incidentally, after one year, you'll be charged 1000 yen for that card.

They may not even know when that card is used.

What could possibly go wrong?

There is a website and a mobile app. Here's a screenshot of my account, showing my pending purchases for the day:

https://i.imgur.com/TUHJPGt.png

They appear to be keeping a register of pending transactions on their side. Prior to transaction approval at point of sale, they take your wallet balance, convert it to USD, then subtract pending transactions. If the result is more than your purchase, they approve it.

The daily limit is $500, but that's clearly communicated as a limitation of the Beta program. The limit once it hits public release hasn't been defined.

Current daily limit is $500 (see previous post).

ATMs currently don't work, because the card doesn't have a PIN. They specifically say they're working on making that happen.

I presume Shift is loading each card with $500, and topping it off as transactions settle each night. They then debit your Coinbase (or other wallet) account for the amount settled.

It is not anonymous, but it also wasn't crazy intrusive. I believe they asked for a physical address and an SSN - or perhaps just the last 4 digits, I don't recall. I don't remember doing the "three questions" that are traditionally associated with a more thorough background check, but it's possible I did.

I honestly wasn't expecting it to ship right away. I figured I'd throw $20 at the possibility of eventually getting a Bitcoin debit card, and if the company disappeared with my money I would just write it off as a gamble.

It's also intresting to note that while Shift might not have a DNA sample, Coinbase assuredly does. Shift has Blockchain.info on their list of suitable wallets, but it's currently inactive. Using that sort of service would limit your exposure of personal information. I'd personally very much like to see GreenAddress.it added to their list, but it would likely require additional coding on Gait's side to support it.

Thanks, it seems like a good option to being able to spend everywhere.

Right -it's part of their Beta program, so that's not unexpected. I understand that it is a prepaid Visa, but it functions as a debit card. I'm able to use it to draw funds from an account with a third-party provider (Coinbase), so the details of how that's done in the legacy financial system isn't my concern.


If they're still in Beta a year from now, that might be a problem. Their problem, by the way - not mine.


They do, see screenshot above. They sent me a text message within 30 seconds of each transaction today.


Well, I might be out the 110 millibits I have in my Coinbase account. If you think I'll ever have significant money sitting in my Coinbase account, you're nuts.

I'm also explicitly not recommending anyone go out and try to get one of these. There are real risks involved, even if Shift is 100% legit. While it seems they are a small operation, I have no reason to believe they aren't acting in good faith. Even so, I'm not dumb enough to assume they're doing so, and I'm taking affirmative steps to limit my liability exposure.

Hell, the biggest "red flag" in this whole situation is that they are obviously trusting their users not to buy $500 of stuff just before emptying their connected account and running like hell. That doesn't strike me as very scalable - but it's their problem, not mine.

The stated conversion rate is very close to Coinbase's. They claim no transaction fees.

They're going to have to make their money somewhere, but it doesn't appear that they're charging for anything except the initial card at the moment.

From what it sounds like this is very much like a prepaid debit card that is reloaded with bitcoin (they likely sell the bitcoin you give them on an exchange to pay for the funds on the debit card). This is probably somewhat of a niche market that would allow them to make quite the pretty penny

If they can make it work flawlessly it will be a huge niche.  ;)

Sounds interesting. Does it actually auto convert the fund on your behalf at the prevailing rate when you make purchases in btc? Any additional fee for that?

nice!
I didn't know that debit card, but as you say it must be difficult to get one,
I'll try it anyway

Can you post a picture of the card in your hands? Just some proof that its not edited.

;D ;D Are you kidding?

but  how to use it? where can use it bying something? i think it can't be used as a credit now.

Definitely interesting.

They'll need to come out w/ a higher daily limit card down the line for when the bitcoin price takes off as I can see this as a way for the holders to be able to buy things easier out in public w/o only using a phone. However, it currently does seem like an easy way for people to use bitcoin more easily yet there's really no incentive for people to want to get bitcoin to spend on things since there's really no discounts being offered by most merchants atm.

In Croatia just recently we got first bitcoin ATM.
More and more merchants accepting bitcoin so debit card is another great addition for bitcoin users :)

I am VERY skeptical of what the OP says...

Care to explain?

The question is not whether the photo is legit. It's just a Tay-Two debit card, which you can buy at Tay-Two stores (video, music, toys, etc.) in Japan. The question is whether the Bitcoin business is actually connected with the Tay-Two/Cardflex business.  This thing may work by the Bitcoin service registering your debit card as theirs and constantly querying the Cardflex servers to see what the card is doing. They may not be plugged into the credit/debit card infrastructure at all.

If that's the case, this won't scale. At some point Cardflex will figure out what's going on.

Good spotting! This is probably just another scam against the fools and children in the land of Bitcoinia.

If he would have only chose bitplastic from Moriarty Scammathon Network of Scammy Sites he could have lost every penny so Mike could buy more senior accounts and screw people.  Stupid OP, don't you know to buy from the king of Scams?