Bitcoin Forum

Economy => Scam Accusations => Topic started by: Carlos L. on May 23, 2012, 08:12:47 PM



Title: [SCAM] BitcoinAdvertisers.com, BitcoinAdvertising.com, Andrew Bitcoiner
Post by: Carlos L. on May 23, 2012, 08:12:47 PM
Andrew Bitcoiner (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=39244) = SCAMMER

Topic: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=78407.0
Website link: http://www.bitcoinadvertisers.com/ (http://www.bitcoinadvertisers.com/)

Hello all,

I created this topic to talk about Bitcoinadvertisers.
And why? Because I've been fooled.

Lack of payments
I got 3 addresses on their website (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=78407.msg893980#msg893980 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=78407.msg893980#msg893980)).
All 3 had pending payments.

I have sent PM to Andrew, sent support ticket on their website and replyed on their topic.

What did they say? Nothing.
What did they made? Clean my balance.

I got 0 bitcoin on those addresses and they did not say nothing about it.

And I'm not the only one. I hope more people like me reply here.

Bad "math"?
Now about the old "Fees earned" on their website.
Like stated here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=78407.msg900784#msg900784), they're lying about their earnings. Some time after that they removed that information from the website.


What's really making me mad is that they say nothing about this problems. They just keep the normal chat...

If you want to know, I had about 1 BTC on their website when they clean my balance. But it's not the amount that mathers here.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=83328.msg1010246#msg1010246 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=83328.msg1010246#msg1010246)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=93954.msg1046477#msg1046477 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=93954.msg1046477#msg1046477)


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: bbit on May 23, 2012, 08:19:55 PM
Topic: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=78407.0
Website link: http://www.bitcoinadvertisers.com/ (http://www.bitcoinadvertisers.com/)

Hello all,

I created this topic to talk about Bitcoinadvertisers.
And why? Because I've been fooled.

Lack of payments
I got 3 addresses on their website (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=78407.msg893980#msg893980 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=78407.msg893980#msg893980)).
All 3 had pending payments.

I have sent PM to Andrew, sent support ticket on their website and replyed on their topic.

What did they say? Nothing.
What did they made? Clean my balance.

I got 0 bitcoin on those addresses and they did not say nothing about it.

And I'm not the only one. I hope more people like me reply here.

Bad "math"?
Now about the old "Fees earned" on their website.
Like stated here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=78407.msg900784#msg900784), they're lying about their earnings. Some time after that they removed that information from the website.


What's really making me mad is that they say nothing about this problems. They just keep the normal chat...

If you want to know, I had about 1 BTC on their website when they clean my balance. But it's not the amount that mathers here.

Funny, I was just going to post the same thing. I've never been paid on anything what is this  " Turn your website into a money making monster"  B.S ?   He needs to eliminate that as false advertising.


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: giantdragon on May 23, 2012, 08:20:51 PM
The same problem, still waiting about 1 BTC for Daily Bitcoins.


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: tosku on May 23, 2012, 08:26:20 PM
CoinAd, Giantdragon, bbit: Thank you for posting this. I've been considering putting up ads from BitcoinAdvertisers. I guess I will put that plan on hold for now.

Andrew: Would you care to elaborate on how they violated your TOS?


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: giantdragon on May 23, 2012, 08:27:05 PM
You violated our Terms Of Service and were banned.  A few people have tried to game the system and have been banned.
Please provide proof that I have cheated with banners on Daily Bitcoins!


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: giantdragon on May 23, 2012, 08:35:23 PM
No, we do not disclose TOS related issues in public.
What, what? May be court in Riga will be better place to discuss your TOS issues!?


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: tysat on May 23, 2012, 08:35:57 PM
@CoinAd
Were you ever told what you did to "violate the TOS"?  I'm guessing not after reading your post.

@Andrew Bitcoiner
If I'm correct and you didn't tell the people who "violated the TOS" what they had done wrong, then I'd say that's pretty close to being a scam.


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: tosku on May 23, 2012, 08:37:44 PM
OK, so it's a guessing game then. My guess is that you don't like how CoinAd has the text "Take this time to visit our sponsors ads." when the timer is ticking down. Daily Bitcoins has something similar, "Visit advertisers’ websites and increase your chances to get bigger prizes!". If I were an advertiser, I wouldn't like that either. However, the normal thing to do in such a situation is to contact the advertiser and notify him of the breach and what you think he should do, not just ban him and take his accumulated earnings.


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: giantdragon on May 23, 2012, 09:05:31 PM
CoinAd and giantdragon are both accused by their own users for scamming on competing advertising services.
Provide the references please!


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: terrytibbs on May 23, 2012, 09:31:25 PM
CoinAd and giantdragon are both accused by their own users for scamming on competing advertising services.
Provide the references please!
Weren't you involved in a similar situation the other day where you were on the other side of the table?


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: drakahn on May 23, 2012, 09:33:00 PM
Can anyone figure out which term they broke?

Are all users of the site breaking the same term?

Would it stand up in court?

---

As it stands i would say stealing someones earned balance is indeed a scam.


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: giantdragon on May 23, 2012, 09:42:15 PM
Would it stand up in court?
I give almost 100% probability that Andrew Bitcoiner would lost in court if sued. But nobody will do this, because legal costs are much higher than stolen balance! One hope left that Andrew Bitcoiner thinks about his karma, but I doubt about this...


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: Maged on May 23, 2012, 09:44:38 PM
Any btc one time allocated for distribution to those bitcoin addresses you are list as your own were dispersed to a charity.
Bad call. Those should have been returned to the advertisers.


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: freespirit on May 23, 2012, 09:45:36 PM
A few people have tried to game the system and have been banned.
Well, I for one am pretty sure I have not "tried to game" anything. I do not have such habit (especially to gain just a few pennies). It's not even a money making matter for me, at least not yet as I've just thrown one of my lower traffic websites at BA to evaluate it as a monetization vehicle, to get some indication if it is time to shift some of my activities to bitcoin economy :) etc. (and so far it is much worse than AdSense for example, though it is expected as your system is new, has few competing advertisers, lacks targeting etc.)

Besides, the ads still show up on my website (and the advertisers obviously get charged for them), pageviews, clicks and revenue continue to flow on the stats page etc. I.e. no indication that I have been "banned" whatsoever.

I'm hesitant to jump to conclusions, call anyone a scammer etc.
And if you consider me a scammer can I at least have a courtesy of being told so? Thank you.


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: bbit on May 23, 2012, 09:54:28 PM
I'm just here to collect some bitcoin because supposedly this is way to to "turn your website into a money making monster"  and I haven't seen one penny yet ? How does one even see how much you've made ?


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: giantdragon on May 23, 2012, 10:01:32 PM
I have some suspicions that BitcoinAdvertisers is based on a pyramid (Ponzi) scheme, where payments for old partners are taken from new ones. Operator sees that he don't have enough funds to pay and intending to increase lifespan of his pyramid just declines payouts to some affiliates, citing his TOS. Another argument in favor of this version is increasing promised payout per visitor to 24.75 mBTC from about 10 just in few days.


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: Coinbuck @ BTCLot on May 23, 2012, 10:12:17 PM
Let's get this clear, BitcoinAdvertisers is a scam.

I've been following this with CoinAd administrator and the behavior is very strange. First the payment was delayed and he wasn't banned at all since the advertisements were still allowed to publish and to manage the main account until CoinAd administrator has decided to removed the ads due to non-payment from BitcoinAdvertisers admin. Now Andrew claims CoinAd violated the ToS without responding what closure did CoinAd violated (acording to my investigation none, the website was under the ToS on that time (wouldn't be now if he changed the ToS without prior notice)).

I'm afraid the operator doesn't have enough funds to pay, classic pyramid scheme. Until this situation gets resolved to both parts I do not recommend you (reader) to use BitcoinAdvertisers or any other service provided by Andrew.

Regards,
coinbuck - BTCLot.com Administrator


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: drakahn on May 23, 2012, 10:31:13 PM
I don't know about that ponzi bit, surely the advertisers are the ones paying for the site to run. - never looked too much into it because I'm months from launching any sites, the bad maths on the fee's and the way they are treating a complaint has me concerned (even if they are right, they are not acting it)

Trying to skim some extra profit by kicking off a few perceptively easy targets, is easy to fathom, pick on anything that could class as competition and anything with a slight reason that you can argue and not look too bad, worst case scenario is you say sorry and give everyone their dues (total loss of respect but no real loss in coins), best case scenario no one fights and you can keep doing it (gain in coins and invincible feelings)

This reminds me of an old isp i was with, the plan was unlimited* and at first they cancelled the highest using users half way through the billing month monthly (it was in the ToS at least, i never got kicked off) and then they changed to unlimited* up to 20gb, not that they got away with it, every complaint to the TiO here means a fine for the isp, and eventually unlimited became unlimited (ahem, unless you count speed limits lol)

not that i know anything thats not in the thread, so yeah


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: freespirit on May 23, 2012, 10:32:42 PM
Well, looks like BitcoinAdvertisers is pickier than Google ;D Turns out the website I was running their ads on was banned as it is not good enough for BA. (although I was never informed of this until I started posting in BA's topic (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=78407.msg916413#msg916413) and PMed Andrew, my earlier inquiry via support form was ignored, ads are still running and advertisers are still obviously paying for them - but not to me ::) ) Will be taking the ads shortly. (to actually implement the ban for the sake of advertisers LOL)


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: tysat on May 23, 2012, 11:34:54 PM

@Andrew Bitcoiner
If I'm correct and you didn't tell the people who "violated the TOS" what they had done wrong, then I'd say that's pretty close to being a scam.

tysat, I would appreciate it if you realize that both these users run competing advertising services and read their comments to understand that by spreading FUD they are acting in their own self-interests. 

If you read BitcoinAdvertisers.com TOS it is very clear that users have a limited license to use the service and that it may be revoked at any time for any reason.  Given that I already commented that TOS disputes are private and said all I am willing to release in the main topic for my service.

I will end this by saying that I have no additional comment on their dispute but I will refer to you the threads in their own post history where CoinAd and giantdragon are both accused by their own users for scamming on competing advertising services.

I doubt you'll read or respond to this, but.....

Quote
TOS it is very clear that users have a limited license to use the service and that it may be revoked at any time for any reason.

Revoking service is a lot different than taking money they were owed.  Still sounds like you didn't tell them what they had done against your TOS.


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: Andrew Bitcoiner on May 23, 2012, 11:53:52 PM

I doubt you'll read or respond to this, but.....

Quote
TOS it is very clear that users have a limited license to use the service and that it may be revoked at any time for any reason.

Revoking service is a lot different than taking money they were owed.  Still sounds like you didn't tell them what they had done against your TOS.

When a partner is banned any bitcoin value accrued in the bitcoin address they provide is forfeit to BitcoinAdvertisers.com. Partners sign up of their own free will and at no cost to them. We do not gather contact information for followup communication with partners and as implied in the TOS we are under no obligation to inform partners of when or why they are banned.  If they contact us I am happy to discuss the matter with any partner that feels they have been unduly suspended and have a couple cases where we have happily worked things out.  This is all industry standard accepted practice. 


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: rjk on May 23, 2012, 11:55:49 PM

I doubt you'll read or respond to this, but.....

Quote
TOS it is very clear that users have a limited license to use the service and that it may be revoked at any time for any reason.

Revoking service is a lot different than taking money they were owed.  Still sounds like you didn't tell them what they had done against your TOS.

When a partner is banned any bitcoin value accrued in the bitcoin address they provide is forfeit to BitcoinAdvertisers.com. Partners sign up of their own free will and at no cost to them. We do not gather contact information for followup communication with partners and as implied in the TOS we are under no obligation to inform partners of when or why they are banned.  If they contact us I am happy to discuss the matter with any partner that feels they have been unduly suspended and have a couple cases where we have happily worked things out.  This is all industry standard accepted practice. 
Uhh... what about the advertiser? Why shouldn't he get his money back for what must be fraudulent clicks? So he is paying you to donate to a charity for him? What is this shit?


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: Andrew Bitcoiner on May 23, 2012, 11:57:30 PM

I doubt you'll read or respond to this, but.....

Quote
TOS it is very clear that users have a limited license to use the service and that it may be revoked at any time for any reason.

Revoking service is a lot different than taking money they were owed.  Still sounds like you didn't tell them what they had done against your TOS.

When a partner is banned any bitcoin value accrued in the bitcoin address they provide is forfeit to BitcoinAdvertisers.com. Partners sign up of their own free will and at no cost to them. We do not gather contact information for followup communication with partners and as implied in the TOS we are under no obligation to inform partners of when or why they are banned.  If they contact us I am happy to discuss the matter with any partner that feels they have been unduly suspended and have a couple cases where we have happily worked things out.  This is all industry standard accepted practice. 
Uhh... what about the advertiser? Why shouldn't he get his money back for what must be fraudulent clicks? So he is paying you to donate to a charity for him? What is this shit?

The advertiser pays for clicks and they got what they paid for.


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: drakahn on May 24, 2012, 12:14:22 AM
... are they bad clicks or aren't they?

if they advertiser got what they paid for why didn't the publisher get paid for what they did?


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: freespirit on May 24, 2012, 12:39:40 AM
The advertiser pays for clicks and they got what they paid for.
So you consider those clicks good enough to tick off the "advertisers got what they paid for" box but not good enough to pass on the payment to the providers of those same clicks? ;D
How convenient.

Imagine an estate agent/escrow who sells your house and then tells you "I sold your house but it was crap, so you will not get paid. The purchasers got what they paid for though. So the deal is closed, I do whatever I please with the money I received for your crappy property, and you are BANNED" LOL


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: tysat on May 24, 2012, 12:52:51 AM
When a partner is banned any bitcoin value accrued in the bitcoin address they provide is forfeit to BitcoinAdvertisers.com.

The advertiser pays for clicks and they got what they paid for.

Imagine an estate agent/escrow who sells your house and then tells you "I sold your house but it was crap, so you will not get paid. The purchasers got what they paid for though. So the deal is closed, I do whatever I please with the money I received for your crappy property, and you are BANNED" LOL

@Andrew Bitcoiner

Sounds like what you're doing.


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: Maged on May 24, 2012, 01:16:19 AM
When a partner is banned any bitcoin value accrued in the bitcoin address they provide is forfeit to BitcoinAdvertisers.com.
I see nothing of the sort in your terms. I'm with tysat on this one.

As no terms are explicitly defined, your terms are this:
  • Currently you could earn 22.77 mBTC for one visitor!
  • Only 2% service fee
  • Free to use
  • Earnings paid automatically to you!

Note: For the benefit of those who were harmed by Andrew Bitcoiner, none of my information or advice constitutes legal advice. I'd advise getting a lawyer to discuss your legal options.


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: Andrew Bitcoiner on May 24, 2012, 01:18:40 AM
When a partner is banned any bitcoin value accrued in the bitcoin address they provide is forfeit to BitcoinAdvertisers.com.

The advertiser pays for clicks and they got what they paid for.

Imagine an estate agent/escrow who sells your house and then tells you "I sold your house but it was crap, so you will not get paid. The purchasers got what they paid for though. So the deal is closed, I do whatever I please with the money I received for your crappy property, and you are BANNED" LOL

@Andrew Bitcoiner

Sounds like what you're doing.

No that doesn't actually translate at all because every ban to a partner occurs to protect the investment each advertiser makes who retain their remaining clicks to legitimate sources of traffic.  There will always be fraud in CPC advertising and I take diligent actions to stop and preempt click fraud so that advertisers get legit traffic to their site and earn new customers.  I cannot tell 100% what is click fraud and what is not but I can make reasonable assumptions about web traffic which is a tried and true industry. It's not easy to do that and it takes a careful judgement of the pros and cons each partner offers to our advertisers and I take that responsibility very seriously.  

As an advertiser on BitcoinAds myself I want my advertising bitcents to be the most effective as possible and future versions of the site will have better analytics for advertisers and partners so that they can legitimately earn bitcoin for using the service.  


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: Andrew Bitcoiner on May 24, 2012, 01:19:40 AM
When a partner is banned any bitcoin value accrued in the bitcoin address they provide is forfeit to BitcoinAdvertisers.com.
I see nothing of the sort in your terms. I'm with tysat on this one.

As no terms are explicitly defined, your terms are this:
Currently you could earn 22.77 mBTC
for one visitor!
Only 2% service fee
Free to use
Earnings paid automatically to you!

Let me direct you to http://www.bitcoinadvertisers.com/tos.php which is on the top right of every page on the website.


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: Maged on May 24, 2012, 01:25:51 AM
When a partner is banned any bitcoin value accrued in the bitcoin address they provide is forfeit to BitcoinAdvertisers.com.
I see nothing of the sort in your terms. I'm with tysat on this one.

As no terms are explicitly defined, your terms are this:
Currently you could earn 22.77 mBTC
for one visitor!
Only 2% service fee
Free to use
Earnings paid automatically to you!

Let me direct you to http://www.bitcoinadvertisers.com/tos.php which is on the top right of every page on the website.
I saw those. None of them pertain to how funds are dispersed and when they can be dispersed. They mention that you can terminate the contract at any time, but there's nothing about you being allowed to keep the funds. Thus, the implied terms overrule, and those imply that the earnings are paid automatically for each and every click.
When a partner is banned any bitcoin value accrued in the bitcoin address they provide is forfeit to BitcoinAdvertisers.com.

The advertiser pays for clicks and they got what they paid for.

Imagine an estate agent/escrow who sells your house and then tells you "I sold your house but it was crap, so you will not get paid. The purchasers got what they paid for though. So the deal is closed, I do whatever I please with the money I received for your crappy property, and you are BANNED" LOL

@Andrew Bitcoiner

Sounds like what you're doing.

No that doesn't actually translate at all because every ban to a partner occurs to protect the investment each advertiser makes who retain their remaining clicks to legitimate sources of traffic.  There will always be fraud in CPC advertising and I take diligent actions to stop and preempt click fraud so that advertisers get legit traffic to their site and earn new customers.  I cannot tell 100% what is click fraud and what is not but I can make reasonable assumptions about web traffic which is a tried and true industry. It's not easy to do that and it takes a careful judgement of the pros and cons each partner offers to our advertisers and I take that responsibility very seriously. 

As an advertiser on BitcoinAds myself I want my advertising bitcents to be the most effective as possible and future versions of the site will have better analytics for advertisers and partners so that they can legitimately earn bitcoin for using the service. 
I see none of this in your terms. Even then, why aren't the funds returned to the advertisers? If the clicks are clearly fraud, then the advertisers shouldn't have to pay for them. You should get the scammer tag for that alone (unless it was in the terms, but it clearly wasn't).

Next time, get a lawyer.

Note: For the benefit of those who were harmed by Andrew Bitcoiner, none of my information or advice constitutes legal advice. I'd advise getting a lawyer to discuss your legal options.


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: drakahn on May 24, 2012, 01:27:50 AM
Seems like such a... bullshit corrupt "Fiat Currency" thing to do.

But hey, that's why I like bitcoins the way they work now, I know to just stay away from the dodgy ones.


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: Andrew Bitcoiner on May 24, 2012, 01:29:34 AM
When a partner is banned any bitcoin value accrued in the bitcoin address they provide is forfeit to BitcoinAdvertisers.com.
I see nothing of the sort in your terms. I'm with tysat on this one.

As no terms are explicitly defined, your terms are this:
Currently you could earn 22.77 mBTC
for one visitor!
Only 2% service fee
Free to use
Earnings paid automatically to you!

Let me direct you to http://www.bitcoinadvertisers.com/tos.php which is on the top right of every page on the website.
I saw those. None of them pertain to how funds are dispersed and when they can be dispersed. They mention that you can terminate the contract at any time, but there's nothing about you being allowed to keep the funds. Thus, the implied terms overrule, and those imply that the earnings are paid automatically for each and every click.
When a partner is banned any bitcoin value accrued in the bitcoin address they provide is forfeit to BitcoinAdvertisers.com.

The advertiser pays for clicks and they got what they paid for.

Imagine an estate agent/escrow who sells your house and then tells you "I sold your house but it was crap, so you will not get paid. The purchasers got what they paid for though. So the deal is closed, I do whatever I please with the money I received for your crappy property, and you are BANNED" LOL

@Andrew Bitcoiner

Sounds like what you're doing.

No that doesn't actually translate at all because every ban to a partner occurs to protect the investment each advertiser makes who retain their remaining clicks to legitimate sources of traffic.  There will always be fraud in CPC advertising and I take diligent actions to stop and preempt click fraud so that advertisers get legit traffic to their site and earn new customers.  I cannot tell 100% what is click fraud and what is not but I can make reasonable assumptions about web traffic which is a tried and true industry. It's not easy to do that and it takes a careful judgement of the pros and cons each partner offers to our advertisers and I take that responsibility very seriously. 

As an advertiser on BitcoinAds myself I want my advertising bitcents to be the most effective as possible and future versions of the site will have better analytics for advertisers and partners so that they can legitimately earn bitcoin for using the service. 
I see none of this in your terms. Even then, why aren't the funds returned to the advertisers? If the clicks are clearly fraud, then the advertisers shouldn't have to pay for them. You should get the scammer tag for that alone (unless it was in the terms, but it clearly wasn't).

Next time, get a lawyer.

Are you a lawyer or providing legal advice?  Your whole statement doesn't amount to anything with Section 5 of the TOS.


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: Maged on May 24, 2012, 01:29:47 AM
Next time, get a lawyer.
What am I saying. It should have been obvious that you didn't know what you were doing when you tried committing trademark infringement on Google.


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: freespirit on May 24, 2012, 01:30:37 AM
No that doesn't actually translate at all because every ban to a partner occurs to protect the investment each advertiser makes who retain their remaining clicks to legitimate sources of traffic.  There will always be fraud in CPC advertising and I take diligent actions to stop and preempt click fraud so that advertisers get legit traffic to their site and earn new customers.  I cannot tell 100% what is click fraud and what is not but I can make reasonable assumptions about web traffic which is a tried and true industry. It's not easy to do that and it takes a careful judgement of the pros and cons each partner offers to our advertisers and I take that responsibility very seriously.
What FRAUD are you talking about?
In my case at least you told me the website was banned because it is not suitable for you in your opinion and that you think it is a "spam site" because there were no updates in a while. I quote: "I don't believe this web property is a good fit for us".


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: Andrew Bitcoiner on May 24, 2012, 01:32:12 AM
Next time, get a lawyer.
What am I saying. It should have been obvious that you didn't know what you were doing when you tried committing trademark infringement on Google.

You didn't answer the question so I will assume you are not a lawyer or have any idea what you are talking about.  If you don't like the service, don't use it, very simple. 


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: Maged on May 24, 2012, 01:35:18 AM
Next time, get a lawyer.
What am I saying. It should have been obvious that you didn't know what you were doing when you tried committing trademark infringement on Google.

You didn't answer the question so I will assume you are not a lawyer or have any idea what you are talking about.  If you don't like the service, don't use it, very simple. 
Sorry, I was just about to respond to that. Give me a break.

For the benefit of those who were harmed by Andrew Bitcoiner, none of my information or advice constitutes legal advice. I'd advise getting a lawyer to discuss your legal options.


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: Andrew Bitcoiner on May 24, 2012, 01:37:58 AM
Next time, get a lawyer.
What am I saying. It should have been obvious that you didn't know what you were doing when you tried committing trademark infringement on Google.

You didn't answer the question so I will assume you are not a lawyer or have any idea what you are talking about.  If you don't like the service, don't use it, very simple. 
Sorry, I was just about to respond to that. Give me a break.

For the benefit of those who were harmed by Andrew Bitcoiner, none of my information or advice constitutes legal advice. I'd advise getting a lawyer to discuss your legal options.

I second that, please have your lawyer contact me on http://www.bitcoinadvertisers.com/support.php


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: giantdragon on May 24, 2012, 02:27:33 AM
There will always be fraud in CPC advertising and I take diligent actions to stop and preempt click fraud
Please provide proof of your accusations about fraudulent traffic!

If you cannot do this, I and other users affected by your actions reserve the right to fill a lawsuit against you.


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: mc_lovin on May 24, 2012, 06:45:53 PM
Definitely not the money making platform it was 'advertised' to be.  Not going to get into details, but I get somewheres around 100x profits from Operation Fabulous.

Everyone should just use www.operationfabulous.com, it clearly is a trustworthy platform.


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: drakahn on May 26, 2012, 01:27:06 PM
I would like to see a scammer tag on anyone involved in this obvious theft


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: Yankee (BitInstant) on May 28, 2012, 04:37:13 AM
Any update on this ?

-Subscribed


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: Andrew Bitcoiner on May 28, 2012, 04:43:50 AM
Any update on this ?

-Subscribed

Nope.


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: NothinG on May 28, 2012, 04:48:35 AM
http://imgur.com/tCp90.gif


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: Serenata on May 28, 2012, 09:15:05 AM
What I have seen so far.

1. One complains about being banned and losing earnings
2. Owner being very cryptic about what the problem was. No clear answer.
3. One correctly claims that if the clicks were "bad" the profit should be returned to the advertiser instead of charity
4. Owner doesn't have a clear stance to the: "If the clicks were not "bad" then no ban should have occured. If they were bad, then money should be returned to advertiser."
5. Owner draws our attention to the terms of service
6. Owner says "If you don't like the service, don't use it, very simple." effectively meaning OK you got me. Stop using it now you know and let me do the same to others
7. I'm quoting this from the terms "The Service may terminate your access to all or any part of the Website at any time, with or without cause, with or without notice, effective immediately." In my opinion cancelling a service without reason and keeping the earnings, is not at all a rational term.

I find the owner's stance too negative and a bit suspicious. Same with the TOS. Although as far as I'm concerned the above are more than enough for me to stop using the service, I do hope this clears up, to protect others if the service is indeed fraudulent or clear the owner's name, if the service is logical and legitimate.


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: Andrew Bitcoiner on May 28, 2012, 04:28:03 PM
This comment is effectively meaningless.

What I have seen so far.

1. One complains about being banned and losing earnings

My service is almost fully automated, if they would of earned anything they would of been paid.  They didn't lose any earnings since they were not earned.  The complainer also runs a competing ad service.

Quote
2. Owner being very cryptic about what the problem was. No clear answer.

Quote
This is a private matter not a public one.  As stated earlier we do not engage n dispute resolution in public forums since it is none of your armchair business.

Quote
3. One correctly claims that if the clicks were "bad" the profit should be returned to the advertiser instead of charity

In your opinion.

Quote
4. Owner doesn't have a clear stance to the: "If the clicks were not "bad" then no ban should have occured. If they were bad, then money should be returned to advertiser."
5. Owner draws our attention to the terms of service
6. Owner says "If you don't like the service, don't use it, very simple." effectively meaning OK you got me. Stop using it now you know and let me do the same to others

7. I'm quoting this from the terms "The Service may terminate your access to all or any part of the Website at any time, with or without cause, with or without notice, effective immediately." In my opinion cancelling a service without reason and keeping the earnings, is not at all a rational term.

Let me quote to you Google's Adsense Terms:

Quote
Program Participation. Participation in the Program is subject to Google’s prior approval and Your continued compliance with the Program Policies ("Program Policies"), located at https://www.google.com/adsense/policies, and/or such other URL as Google may provide from time to time. Google reserves the right to refuse participation to any applicant or participant at any time in its sole discretion.

As I stated earlier this policy is industry standard practice.


Quote
I find the owner's stance too negative and a bit suspicious. Same with the TOS. Although as far as I'm concerned the above are more than enough for me to stop using the service, I do hope this clears up, to protect others if the service is indeed fraudulent or clear the owner's name, if the service is logical and legitimate.

You allege to have used the service, since I do not have partners forum information it is just as likely you just made that up to spread more FUD.


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: Yankee (BitInstant) on May 28, 2012, 05:41:25 PM
Andrew,

I know the publishers side of your business, Im not involved in.

We've met in SF, and I've vouched for you on this forum when no one else did.

Is this whole thing really worth the few Bitcoins you owe to them? Why cant you just pay your publishers and be done with this.

Your whole companies reputation is being tarnished because of a few Bitcoins.

Moral issues aside, cmon dude this is bad business and you know it. The customer is always 100% right.

Talk to them, settle it out, and end this.

Your gonna lose all your advertisers, including myself if this does not get resolved. That was not a threat, its the simple truth.

What are you gonna do Andrew?

-Charlie


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: terrytibbs on May 28, 2012, 05:56:08 PM
What are you gonna do Andrew?

-Charlie
Touché


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: Andrew Bitcoiner on May 28, 2012, 06:00:32 PM

Talk to them, settle it out, and end this.


I did that and it didn't work, what else do you suggest?


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: Yankee (BitInstant) on May 28, 2012, 06:23:48 PM

Talk to them, settle it out, and end this.


I did that and it didn't work, what else do you suggest?

For a guy who's analyzing everyone's comments line-by-line, you just skipped over my post and commented on 1 line. Is that fair?

To answer your question - make it work - your not in high school Andrew this is the real world. We can't run away from our issues.


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: Andrew Bitcoiner on May 28, 2012, 06:32:16 PM

Talk to them, settle it out, and end this.


I did that and it didn't work, what else do you suggest?

For a guy who's analyzing everyone's comments line-by-line, you just skipped over my post and commented on 1 line. Is that fair?

To answer your question - make it work - your not in high school Andrew this is the real world. We can't run away from our issues.

I replied back with what I had a question on, what's the problem with that?


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: Yankee (BitInstant) on May 28, 2012, 07:00:07 PM

Talk to them, settle it out, and end this.


I did that and it didn't work, what else do you suggest?

For a guy who's analyzing everyone's comments line-by-line, you just skipped over my post and commented on 1 line. Is that fair?

To answer your question - make it work - your not in high school Andrew this is the real world. We can't run away from our issues.

I replied back with what I had a question on, what's the problem with that?


There is no problem with that. I just assumed as a friend you'd give me the decency of responding to my post.

I guess not.


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: drakahn on May 30, 2012, 04:44:21 AM
hmm
And now its official


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: Maged on May 30, 2012, 08:00:20 PM
The terms of service have been updated to prevent this from being a problem in the future. However, Andrew still needs to pay these people who were legitimately using his service under the old Terms.


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: Matthew N. Wright on May 30, 2012, 08:17:09 PM
rofl. The "hmm" of death.


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: Maged on May 30, 2012, 08:34:23 PM
The terms of service have been updated to prevent this from being a problem in the future. However, Andrew still needs to pay these people who were legitimately using his service under the old Terms.

1) There is no significant difference between those versions of terms in the context of this dispute.
Please point out the following from the old terms:
a) which part of the Terms they broke
b) which part allows you to keep the bitcoins for yourself
2) I had reason to believe the banners on websites they controlled were generating false clicks.
Was that against the old Terms?
3) I banned those accounts according to standard practice.
That doesn't revoke your obligation to pay them any funds that were pending.
4) The customer and I were not able to reconcile those differences at which time he illicit's personal friends to a) create a public thread complaining about the issue, b) defame my reputation, c) cause my service significant financial loss, d) he did not then or now use his own advertising service on the dailybitcoin.org website or any other service to replace BitcoinAdvertisers.com banner ad hosting service.
Now you're just pulling a bulanula.
5) Without due diligence or recourse forum moderators judged my service to be guilty without hearing counter arguments.  
We absolutely heard your counter-arguments! In fact, I would have personally been just fine with you refunding the advertisers instead of paying these guys, despite the fact that no court would agree with me (they'd tell you to pay these guys, no exceptions).
6) The threat of seizing partner account funds is there to warn publishers to not try to game the system and we have had a lot of people try this.
And I don't disagree with this at all, which is why I'm glad that you've gone ahead and updated the Terms so that all parties are aware of this.

If I can make any recommendations to the moderators of this forum it would be to not take sides in a dispute between members.  You say you are all about free speech and I now know that to mean that trolling, defaming, and insulting forum members and financial contributors to this website is a forum standard practice.  I have had something like 40btc worth of ad space on this forum and because of your actions I will not be purchasing ads here in the future.
Our whole job in scammer investigations are to take a side, but in a fair and unbiased manner. I knew none of the people involved in this dispute, so I feel that I fit the role (note: this investigation is still controlled by tysat until/unless he transfers it to me)


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: bulanula on May 30, 2012, 08:40:49 PM
Quote from: Maged
Now you're just pulling a bulanula.

You know you have reached legend status on the forums when your username becomes a descriptive word ! :D

Maged is doing the right thing here. It is justice being handed out fairly for all forum users / scammers.

Next time I will also try and hide behind and use fancy TOS with hidden clauses to protect me.

You forget this is BTC world and not court 8)



Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: Coinbuck @ BTCLot on May 30, 2012, 08:42:29 PM
Please note term 3) is a lie. CoinAd account wasn't banned or notified about this. Andrew did this to profit even more from the scam.


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: Coinbuck @ BTCLot on May 30, 2012, 08:47:42 PM
Please note term 3) is a lie. CoinAd account wasn't banned or notified about this. Andrew did this to profit even more from the scam.

No one partner contact information is collected at sign up and neither does the service need to notify anyone of this.  And how do you even know?  Do you read his email?  Troll elsewhere.

I've said multiple times that I'm following this case with CoinAd administrator before this thread existence so I can confirm that.

It's up to you to ignore/omit facts. All I can say is that you're screwed up at this moment and you deserve it for the damage you caused to CoinAd and other publishers.

EDIT: I hope you're happy to know that you stole bitcoins that were going to new bitcoin users.


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: edd on May 30, 2012, 08:54:21 PM
Please note term 3) is a lie. CoinAd account wasn't banned or notified about this. Andrew did this to profit even more from the scam.

No one partner contact information is collected at sign up and neither does the service need to notify anyone of this.  And how do you even know?  Do you read his email?  Troll elsewhere.

I've said multiple times that I'm following this case with CoinAd administrator before this thread existence so I can confirm that.

It's up to you to ignore/omit facts. All I can say is that you're screwed up at this moment and you deserve it for the damage you caused to CoinAd and other publishers.

EDIT: I hope you're happy to know that you stole bitcoins that were going to new bitcoin users.

I hope you are happy to know that if nothing was earned nothing can be taken away. 

So your advertisers paid for nothing?


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: freespirit on May 30, 2012, 08:55:25 PM
Please note term 3) is a lie. CoinAd account wasn't banned or notified about this. Andrew did this to profit even more from the scam.

No partner contact information is collected at sign up...
So what? You provide partners with a stats page, which they obviously visit, what prevents you from notifying them via these pages?
Then... when answering to posts in this thread you refer to "fraud" as a justification for bans all the time. In my case, I repeat, my website was banned (as I found out much later), stats page was continuing to show flow of earnings, my message via your support form regarding lack of payouts was ignored for days, you reacted only to my pm here after I posted on the forum and told me that my website was banned because it's not "a good fit" for you. Where is fraud in this equation? (at least from my side LOL).
Not that I care about those pennies you chose not to pay to me, but all this tells a lot about your business practices.

And I recall clicking on one of the partners' addresses on your "global" stats page, and there was a message like "CTR is too high, payouts suspended pending investigation". So you actually used this way of notification (before?/for certain partners?). And now suddenly you complain about lack of partners' contact information? ::)


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: Coinbuck @ BTCLot on May 30, 2012, 09:00:49 PM
Please note term 3) is a lie. CoinAd account wasn't banned or notified about this. Andrew did this to profit even more from the scam.

No one partner contact information is collected at sign up and neither does the service need to notify anyone of this.  And how do you even know?  Do you read his email?  Troll elsewhere.

I've said multiple times that I'm following this case with CoinAd administrator before this thread existence so I can confirm that.

It's up to you to ignore/omit facts. All I can say is that you're screwed up at this moment and you deserve it for the damage you caused to CoinAd and other publishers.

EDIT: I hope you're happy to know that you stole bitcoins that were going to new bitcoin users.

I hope you are happy to know that if nothing was earned nothing can be taken away.  

Fact 1: The ads were published and viewed by CoinAd users.
Fact 2: You did not ban CoinAd account, this would allowed you to get more views without having to pay.
Fact 3: CoinAd tried to contact you about this situation but he never got a decent reply.
Fact 4: Until this thread was open you did not care about this situation. It is easier to run away from responsibilities but when things go public it is hard to handle isn't it ?
Fact 5: CoinAd administrator even with this damage still managed to pay to his users and hosting provider.

This advertisements were paid by your clients, so the money is in your pocket right now ?


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: Coinoisseur on May 30, 2012, 09:27:32 PM
It's pretty silly to say you disbursed funds to "charity" rather than just credit back the advertisers. I can't imagine many people expecting that sort of thing.


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: nimda on May 30, 2012, 09:38:09 PM
Thinking about putting up a bet about this...
Quote
This dispute will be resolved and the arguing will stop within 1 year
Since it's pretty clear at this point that both sides are entrenched and have walked in their rut so much that they can't climb out.

If I had the time, I'd analyze it more, because there's probably a minimum of 2 logical fallacies used by either side and 2 valid points which haven't been answered to ::)


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: Littleshop on May 30, 2012, 10:15:22 PM
It's pretty silly to say you disbursed funds to "charity" rather than just credit back the advertisers. I can't imagine many people expecting that sort of thing.

The money needs to go back to the advertisers.  Either the clicks were valid and should be paid, or they were a scam and should be refunded.  bitcoinadvertisers.com nor a charity should end up with the money.


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: drakahn on May 31, 2012, 04:12:46 AM
wow, just wow, first this annoyed me because it was real world corruption in the bitcoin world (company feel's untouchable and starts scamming people "legally") now its just stupid, how someone representing a business thinks he is right and stubbornly sticks to that escapes me


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: localhost on June 01, 2012, 12:43:02 PM
Funny, I was just going to post the same thing. I've never been paid on anything what is this  " Turn your website into a money making monster"  B.S ?
Same here. Been waiting for payment for about a week. Contacted "support" via contact form a couple of days ago and no reply. Took the ads offline yesterday. 14k impressions for nothing  :-\
http://www.bitcoinadvertisers.com/partnerstat.php?p=18Gs5KMhhzyZB31Xpn4Qf2493298j9s7qp
Anyway, ads were low quality (no offense to advertisers, by this I just mean: nothing interesting for non-BTC people) and some were about gambling although I specifically asked not to show gambling ads... I won't miss them as much as my 0.10 BTC...


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: repentance on June 01, 2012, 10:17:17 PM
It's pretty silly to say you disbursed funds to "charity" rather than just credit back the advertisers. I can't imagine many people expecting that sort of thing.

The money needs to go back to the advertisers.  Either the clicks were valid and should be paid, or they were a scam and should be refunded.  bitcoinadvertisers.com nor a charity should end up with the money.

No sane advertiser would pay for ads with a 60% CTR in the first place.  As soon as the stats started showing that kind of an aberration, you'd know that the majority of click throughs were not legitimate and tell the placement service that you weren't going to pay for any click throughs above the industry standard for the type of ad and degree of targeting.  


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: localhost on June 03, 2012, 08:42:37 AM
Haha, just saw an ad for this thread in my new anonymousads banner (ad text "Take down BitcoinAdvertisers banners - they are fraudsters!"). I had to check it out ;D

Anyway :
- still no reply from support
- still not received payment
- account still in good standing (if I hadn't removed the ads, I would still be giving them free exposures...)
- on a side note, for those who didn't bother to click the link to my stats, my CTR is around 0.06% (8 clicks / 14k impressions)

So, as far as I know, the answer to the OP is : yes, not even a doubt about it. Can anyone here say they did receive a payment from this service in the first place ?


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: Matthew N. Wright on June 03, 2012, 09:09:06 PM
CoinAd, Giantdragon, bbit: Thank you for posting this. I've been considering putting up ads from BitcoinAdvertisers. I guess I will put that plan on hold for now.

Andrew: Would you care to elaborate on how they violated your TOS?

No, we do not disclose TOS related issues in public.

The terms of service are public, aren't they? How could you not discuss them publicly? Do you not understand them or something? Are you talking about not discussing specific customer issues in public? If so, that much I could understand, except you already did that by posting in this thread.  ::)


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: Matthew N. Wright on June 03, 2012, 09:10:36 PM
Haha, just saw an ad for this thread in my new anonymousads banner (ad text "Take down BitcoinAdvertisers banners - they are fraudsters!"). I had to check it out ;D

Scumbags being scumbags. Since there are no favorable discussions of facts, we resort to slander. Yay. Evolution works backwards in the Bitcoin world!



Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: Matthew N. Wright on June 03, 2012, 09:41:05 PM
CoinAd, Giantdragon, bbit: Thank you for posting this. I've been considering putting up ads from BitcoinAdvertisers. I guess I will put that plan on hold for now.

Andrew: Would you care to elaborate on how they violated your TOS?

No, we do not disclose TOS related issues in public.

The terms of service are public, aren't they? How could you not discuss them publicly? Do you not understand them or something? Are you talking about not discussing specific customer issues in public? If so, that much I could understand, except you already did that by posting in this thread.  ::)

Sorry, to clarify I meant that we have a policy to not discuss specific TOS disputes in public, for the cases that have already been aired in public I'm not making any further comment.

Fair enough.


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: localhost on June 04, 2012, 05:27:06 AM
To be fair, just received a reply to my ticket. Apparently my account had a "temporary suspension", which is now removed, but to receive payout I need to run the ads again (I guess it's because there's no cron-job doing the payments...). I'll try that on the site where I only removed the ad but didn't replace it yet...


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: Maged on June 04, 2012, 05:39:23 AM
Great! I'm so glad that progress is being made to resolve this.


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: Coinbuck @ BTCLot on June 06, 2012, 10:08:56 AM
Sorry, to clarify I meant that we have a policy to not discuss specific TOS disputes in public, for the cases that have already been aired in public I'm not making any further comment.

You also do not discuss in private. You just ignore.

This guy clearly deserves a scammer tag.


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: bulanula on June 06, 2012, 02:52:46 PM
Sorry, to clarify I meant that we have a policy to not discuss specific TOS disputes in public, for the cases that have already been aired in public I'm not making any further comment.

You also do not discuss in private. You just ignore.

This guy clearly deserves a scammer tag.

So many people complaining ...


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com SCAM!!
Post by: drakahn on June 06, 2012, 09:46:03 PM
Sorry, to clarify I meant that we have a policy to not discuss specific TOS disputes in public, for the cases that have already been aired in public I'm not making any further comment.

You also do not discuss in private. You just ignore.

This guy clearly deserves a scammer tag.

So many people complaining ...

Have you learned your lesson? its only scamming if you didn't say "i will do whatever i want and if you complain i will do whatever i want anyway" before the deal.


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com SCAM!!
Post by: bulanula on June 07, 2012, 05:53:59 PM
Sorry, to clarify I meant that we have a policy to not discuss specific TOS disputes in public, for the cases that have already been aired in public I'm not making any further comment.

You also do not discuss in private. You just ignore.

This guy clearly deserves a scammer tag.

So many people complaining ...

Have you learned your lesson? its only scamming if you didn't say "i will do whatever i want and if you complain i will do whatever i want anyway" before the deal.

I have indeed learned my lesson. Have a slick TOS that allows me to take all the BTC and not give anything in return ;)

Any corrupt lawyer taking BTC here up for the challenge ? Make it small print too !


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com SCAM!!
Post by: Coinoisseur on June 07, 2012, 07:08:49 PM
Did the ToS say he can do whatever he wants with the advertisers funds? He says he sent them to charity(ies?). It's that part that makes me want to facepalm. It's also the point he refuses to discuss, wonder why?


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: ludo0777 on June 09, 2012, 03:55:12 PM
Can anyone figure out which term they broke?

Are all users of the site breaking the same term?

Would it stand up in court?

---

As it stands i would say stealing someones earned balance is indeed a scam.

Well if you agree to the terms and they say your account can be closed at any time then yes it would stand up in court.


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: edd on June 09, 2012, 04:08:16 PM
Can anyone figure out which term they broke?

Are all users of the site breaking the same term?

Would it stand up in court?

---

As it stands i would say stealing someones earned balance is indeed a scam.

Well if you agree to the terms and they say your account can be closed at any time then yes it would stand up in court.

Not necessarily. Many judges take a "common sense" approach to these kind of things. Just because the terms may technically allow something doesn't negate the rest of the contract.


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: giantdragon on June 09, 2012, 04:22:08 PM
Well if you agree to the terms and they say your account can be closed at any time then yes it would stand up in court.
Nope. In the ToS you can write everything, even for example that with the click of "I agree" button user gives away his house for free in website's owner favor. Of course it will never be upheld in the court.


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: localhost on June 09, 2012, 04:26:16 PM
As it stands i would say stealing someones earned balance is indeed a scam.
Well if you agree to the terms and they say your account can be closed at any time then yes it would stand up in court.
Reminds me very much of Google Adsense... In case anyone here wonders, they do just that: close account without any explanation (and you can't even connect to see how your stats were indeed weird or not).

Still haven't received my payment, btw. But as I put the ads on my lowest traffic site, it didn't get any new click yet. Although, I wonder what can be so hard in programming a cron payment...


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: Phinnaeus Gage on June 09, 2012, 05:18:07 PM
Great! I'm so glad that progress is being made to resolve this.

This has been going on for so long, I forgot which horse I had in this race.


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com is a SCAM?
Post by: NothinG on June 10, 2012, 07:12:23 PM
Great! I'm so glad that progress is being made to resolve this.

This has been going on for so long, I forgot which horse I had in this race.

By each on-going page, I think I just keep re-rolling the dice.


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com SCAM!!
Post by: ludo0777 on June 15, 2012, 04:00:16 PM
Same problem! This is my thread about it: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=87567.0


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com SCAM!!
Post by: Coinbuck @ BTCLot on June 15, 2012, 05:12:50 PM
Same problem! This is my thread about it: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=87567.0

You should start searching before using a service. Many people have been scammed and there are plenty complaints on this forum.


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com SCAM!!
Post by: bulanula on June 15, 2012, 08:01:55 PM
Scammer gonna scam, scammed gonna stay scammed.

Case filed.

PS: For every scammer out there, just ignore when you're being accused and you'll not be considered a scammer :)

Exactly, man.

I learned my goddam lesson now :-\

Never admit to ANYTHING at all and you get scot free.

Valuable fife lesson right there folks.

Works every damn time !


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com SCAM!!
Post by: drakahn on June 28, 2012, 03:24:36 PM
Again I'm left wondering how this can just be okay to do...


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com SCAM!!
Post by: Matthew N. Wright on June 28, 2012, 03:39:14 PM
Again I'm left wondering how this can just be okay to do...

because bitcoin.


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com SCAM!!
Post by: localhost on June 28, 2012, 06:52:24 PM
Well, personally I'll replace the ads when I get the occasion but I eventually got paid.


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com SCAM!!
Post by: drakahn on June 29, 2012, 06:11:28 AM
Again I'm left wondering how this can just be okay to do...

because bitcoin.
That's my reason for thinking a scam like this isn't okay


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com SCAM!!
Post by: luicon on July 05, 2012, 04:06:02 AM
confirmed: total scam
THIS WEB DOES NOT PAY
i removed the banners of my web already,

the owner does not deceive just the user, keeping his account generating traffic without paying and without any notice, but also deceive the guys who bought his service, as the traffic generated and not paid, will be deduced from the traffic the advertiser paid for!
overall a quite round business! full incoming bitcoins and zero outcoming ones.

"turn your website into a money making monster" ?!? BS.


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com SCAM!!
Post by: Greedi on July 05, 2012, 11:31:57 AM
hey averyone, if you ask me http://bitcoinadvertisers.com is the biggest scam site ever!!

we will never get paid out - http://bitcoinadvertisers.com/partnerstat.php?p=1Jmq5ZmotK5y3KSKRNxx9k67EdiDccmd1G

so everyone out there, do NOT use this site !


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com SCAM!!
Post by: Luceo on July 05, 2012, 11:54:41 AM
The fact that Andrew does not refund advertisers for fraud means that it is in his interest to ban partners for fraud (he gets to pocket the whole cost of their clicks).

In essence, he is directly profiting from defrauding his advertisers.

The model is flawed inherently, the interest of the site operator should always be to maintain a fraud-free service, but with BitcoinAdvertisers this is not the case.


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com SCAM!!
Post by: luicon on July 05, 2012, 12:15:18 PM
its so frustrating see your few btc's growing,
you wait your payment and nothing happends..
i mailed the owner and no respone.

i can guess the complexity of his php script

if ( $CTR > 0.1 ){
   donotpay();
}else{
   donotpay();
}



Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com SCAM!!
Post by: Coinbuck @ BTCLot on July 05, 2012, 12:22:43 PM
The fact that Andrew does not refund advertisers for fraud means that it is in his interest to ban partners for fraud (he gets to pocket the whole cost of their clicks).

In essence, he is directly profiting from defrauding his advertisers.

The model is flawed inherently, the interest of the site operator should always be to maintain a fraud-free service, but with BitcoinAdvertisers this is not the case.

He claims there is fraud but it some cases there is no fraud. The advertisers received the traffic, he received the money. Publishers received nothing.

Simple as that.

Btw. He only pays low CTR rates, the rest he just makes claims to not pay. It ain't cheap to pay publishers with high CTR.


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com SCAM!!
Post by: luicon on July 05, 2012, 01:42:40 PM
he should

1) show clearly the rules to be paid or not, showing witch is the max CTR and so on.
2) if an account is suspected to be fraudulent must be blocked instead of keep it alive generating visits that he will not pay
3) the number of clicks done by the "fraudulent" account must be returned to the advertisers
4) remove the statement that says "i will do whatever i want and google ads got same rules" <--- BS

but this will not happen, because otherwise he would not get so much profit!


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com SCAM!!
Post by: localhost on July 05, 2012, 01:56:10 PM
4) remove the statement that says "i will do whatever i want and google ads got same rules" <--- BS
Where's the BS in this? Looks like he does whatever he wants and Google Ads sure has the same rules...


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com SCAM!!
Post by: luicon on July 05, 2012, 02:06:39 PM
yeah, thats the standard  BS companies put so they can steal when they want

now i will open a bitcoin bank, and instead bitcoins i will give you a paper that says "you got x bitcoins"
what? i can't do it? why not? banks do it! seems a legit argument? [...]



Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com SCAM!!
Post by: bulanula on July 05, 2012, 06:34:52 PM
Maybe OP can do a poll like this :

Do you think they should be given scammer tags ?

YES
No
I don't know

Or something like that ...


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com BitcoinAdvertising.com SCAM
Post by: HostFat on July 07, 2012, 01:37:44 PM
I also stopped using this :)


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com BitcoinAdvertising.com SCAM
Post by: drakahn on July 08, 2012, 05:46:18 AM
Make the poll just to spread the word some more, the more people that know its run by a scammer the better


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com BitcoinAdvertising.com SCAM
Post by: luicon on July 08, 2012, 11:52:09 AM
is coinurl.com managed by the same scammer of bitcoinadvertisers.com?

both sites have absolutely the same style and css and so on...


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com BitcoinAdvertising.com SCAM
Post by: rjk on July 08, 2012, 11:54:30 AM
is coinurl.com managed by the same scammer of bitcoinadvertisers.com?

both sites have absolutely the same style and css and so on...
No, coinURL is giantdragon's site.


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com BitcoinAdvertising.com SCAM
Post by: luicon on July 08, 2012, 12:01:28 PM
mmm and any idea about why the equal design? maybe they both used the same template?


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com BitcoinAdvertising.com SCAM
Post by: rjk on July 08, 2012, 12:04:15 PM
mmm and any idea about why the equal design? maybe they both used the same template?
Yes, twitter bootstrap, although I'm not sure why most of the colors are the same as well.


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com BitcoinAdvertising.com SCAM
Post by: Raoul Duke on July 08, 2012, 12:41:42 PM
mmm and any idea about why the equal design? maybe they both used the same template?
Yes, twitter bootstrap, although I'm not sure why most of the colors are the same as well.

Because there are a lot of bootstrap pre-made css files with different color schemes. They just happened to choose the same one, probably for the reason CoinAd said.
That css is called "United"
http://bootswatch.com/


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com BitcoinAdvertising.com SCAM
Post by: giantdragon on July 08, 2012, 03:44:29 PM
is coinurl.com managed by the same scammer of bitcoinadvertisers.com?

both sites have absolutely the same style and css and so on...
No, coinURL is giantdragon's site.

I am an operator of the CoinURL service. I have absolutely no association with the BitcoinAdvertisers. By the way, I was scammed by Andrew Bitcoiner with refusal to pay for ads placed on my another service - Daily Bitcoins.

Quote
both sites have absolutely the same style and css and so on...

mmm and any idea about why the equal design? maybe they both used the same template?

Andrew Bitcoiner, thank you very much!  ;D ...for creating "awesome" reputation to the all websites that use "United" Bootstrap template.


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com BitcoinAdvertising.com SCAM
Post by: GetFreeCoins on July 23, 2012, 01:46:22 PM
I'm still waiting for a payment from one of my sites. I have already been paid 0.05BTC, and I'm now waiting another 0.05BTC. I have tried to contact support trough the information listed at your website without any answer.


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com BitcoinAdvertising.com SCAM
Post by: thaayb on August 11, 2012, 02:06:43 PM
Im waiting for my payout too!!

http://bitcoinadvertising.com/partnerstat.php?p=17BGbMm1xoR7msTbMrMujk4AUcRURK9EMi

Kind regards!
Yours, Thaayb.
http://[Off-topic ad image]/bb (http://click.anonymousads.com/526/bb)


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com BitcoinAdvertising.com SCAM
Post by: mc_lovin on August 14, 2012, 06:15:57 PM
bump ^^ ;)


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com BitcoinAdvertising.com SCAM
Post by: DOH! on September 10, 2012, 10:10:09 PM
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=107560.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=107560.0)

More bitching around from Andrew Scamcoiner.

Everything he touches is a scam, including bitjack21.com, he deleted my account that had over 260btc in it!!!


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com BitcoinAdvertising.com SCAM
Post by: Raoul Duke on September 10, 2012, 10:39:10 PM
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=107560.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=107560.0)

More bitching around from Andrew Scamcoiner.

Everything he touches is a scam, including bitjack21.com, he deleted my account that had over 260btc in it!!!
Make a new thread and present your case with all the evidence you can gather.


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com BitcoinAdvertising.com SCAM
Post by: DOH! on September 10, 2012, 10:51:11 PM
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=107560.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=107560.0)

More bitching around from Andrew Scamcoiner.

Everything he touches is a scam, including bitjack21.com, he deleted my account that had over 260btc in it!!!
Make a new thread and present your case with all the evidence you can gather.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=105027.0

According to most of the douches here, screenshots and e-mails don't count, so other than that I don't know what kind of evidence there could be.


Title: Re: BitcoinAdvertisers.com BitcoinAdvertising.com SCAM
Post by: Raoul Duke on September 10, 2012, 11:28:50 PM
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=107560.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=107560.0)

More bitching around from Andrew Scamcoiner.

Everything he touches is a scam, including bitjack21.com, he deleted my account that had over 260btc in it!!!
Make a new thread and present your case with all the evidence you can gather.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=105027.0

According to most of the douches here, screenshots and e-mails don't count, so other than that I don't know what kind of evidence there could be.

Don't let others decide what counts or not. Post everything you have. Whoever decides if something counts or not is the person analysing the case.


Title: Re: [SCAM] BitcoinAdvertisers.com, BitcoinAdvertising.com, Andrew Bitcoiner
Post by: QuantumKiwi on September 16, 2012, 08:54:25 PM
Andrew Bitcoiner.

Am I going to get paid for the clicks and traffic ive done to your site?

Or are you going to use your TOS against me?

If I dont get paid out, Ill be paying my private investigator to locate you. I will then come and collect in person. Ive done it many times in the bitcoin industry and I dont mind taking a flight some where, little old NZ gets a bit boring sometimes!


http://quantumkiwi.com/bitcoin/bitcoinadvertisers.png



Title: Re: [SCAM] BitcoinAdvertisers.com, BitcoinAdvertising.com, Andrew Bitcoiner
Post by: QuantumKiwi on September 16, 2012, 09:04:07 PM
It seems im going to have to make an example out of this " Andrew ".

Putting the P.I onto this guy and his site now.

Will post results of his location ASAP. ( I will be flying wherever and whenever to see this guy )

I dont mind collecting for people however ill sort a process out for this.


Title: Re: [SCAM] BitcoinAdvertisers.com, BitcoinAdvertising.com, Andrew Bitcoiner
Post by: bulanula on September 20, 2012, 11:51:09 PM
Some sort of unbacked online currency international internet security expert detective?

Yessir !

Update anyone ???


Title: Re: [SCAM] BitcoinAdvertisers.com, BitcoinAdvertising.com, Andrew Bitcoiner
Post by: DOH! on September 21, 2012, 04:26:55 AM
Some sort of unbacked online currency international internet security expert detective?

Yessir !

Update anyone ???

Update: This scammy fuck is still running amuck without a scammer tag.


Title: Re: [SCAM] BitcoinAdvertisers.com, BitcoinAdvertising.com, Andrew Bitcoiner
Post by: QuantumKiwi on September 22, 2012, 02:12:30 AM
Don't worry, karma is a bitch and there is something coming his way :)

Got a P.I on him.


Title: Re: [SCAM] BitcoinAdvertisers.com, BitcoinAdvertising.com, Andrew Bitcoiner
Post by: paraipan on September 22, 2012, 02:53:53 AM
Don't worry, karma is a bitch and there is something coming his way :)
...

^Hmm, where did I heard that before... Matthew is that you?


Title: Re: [SCAM] BitcoinAdvertisers.com, BitcoinAdvertising.com, Andrew Bitcoiner
Post by: QuantumKiwi on September 22, 2012, 09:07:58 AM
Don't worry, karma is a bitch and there is something coming his way :)
...

^Hmm, where did I heard that before... Matthew is that you?

Nope, not matthew.

Feel free to PM me for verification if you like.



Title: Re: [SCAM] BitcoinAdvertisers.com, BitcoinAdvertising.com, Andrew Bitcoiner
Post by: DOH! on September 23, 2012, 12:53:14 PM
Don't worry, karma is a bitch and there is something coming his way :)

Got a P.I on him.

How's the P.I. doing?


Title: Re: [SCAM] BitcoinAdvertisers.com, BitcoinAdvertising.com, Andrew Bitcoiner
Post by: SMcMorgan on September 28, 2012, 06:05:55 AM
Quote
Stats are temporarily disabled, sorry!

I assume this is to hide the fact that BitcoinAdvertising hasn't had a single payout in several days.


Title: Re: [SCAM] BitcoinAdvertisers.com, BitcoinAdvertising.com, Andrew Bitcoiner
Post by: jasinlee on September 29, 2012, 10:03:13 PM
http://bitcoinadvertisers.com/partnerstat.php?p=1EvMXYKKktz7WSo9TUPKB6qbFBfpdi2EdA (http://bitcoinadvertisers.com/partnerstat.php?p=1EvMXYKKktz7WSo9TUPKB6qbFBfpdi2EdA)

Lol apparently I have been paid for advertising from him today? Well his ads havent been on my site for 2 weeks though so um thanks?


Title: Re: [SCAM] BitcoinAdvertisers.com, BitcoinAdvertising.com, Andrew Bitcoiner
Post by: Hasimir on September 30, 2012, 12:04:59 AM
I haven't read this whole thread, but I've read enough.

I'm not running any of the advertising sites, but I had both bitcoinadvertisers.com and anonymousads.com ads on my website.  The former never paid anything, the latter haven't been up as long, but have paid small BTC payments (my site isn't huge).  After reading what I have of this thread it's confirmed enough of what I suspected about bitcoinadvertisers.com and those links have just been removed.

I figure I've lost absolutely nothing by removing those ads.  I clearly had nothing to gain by leaving them there.


Title: Re: [SCAM] BitcoinAdvertisers.com, BitcoinAdvertising.com, Andrew Bitcoiner
Post by: giantdragon on September 30, 2012, 12:30:55 AM
BitcoinAdvertisers website not working for many hours. I guess this scammer decided just to run away with the Bitcoins collected from advertisers without paying anything to the publishers!


Title: Re: [SCAM] BitcoinAdvertisers.com, BitcoinAdvertising.com, Andrew Bitcoiner
Post by: CJGoodings on September 30, 2012, 01:20:46 AM
Account Suspended, looks like somebody forgot to pay their bill.


Title: Re: [SCAM] BitcoinAdvertisers.com, BitcoinAdvertising.com, Andrew Bitcoiner
Post by: DOH! on October 01, 2012, 01:37:28 PM
Account Suspended, looks like somebody forgot to pay their bill.

His house of shit imploded, nobody wants to deal with this scammy fuck.


Title: Re: [SCAM] BitcoinAdvertisers.com, BitcoinAdvertising.com, Andrew Bitcoiner
Post by: QuantumKiwi on October 05, 2012, 01:02:05 AM
P.I found him, compiling evidence for a local prosecution.


Title: Re: [SCAM] BitcoinAdvertisers.com, BitcoinAdvertising.com, Andrew Bitcoiner
Post by: oldschool on October 09, 2012, 03:04:11 PM
I did a blog post on sep 27th on Andrew and BitcoinAdvertisers about scamming and clickfraud.  It looked like he was actively participating in click fraud or allowing it to happen to directly profit off of it from advertisers.  This definitely deserves the scammer tag.

http://btc411.com/2012/09/27/bitcoinadvertisers-scamming-the-bitcoin-community/


Title: Re: [SCAM] BitcoinAdvertisers.com, BitcoinAdvertising.com, Andrew Bitcoiner
Post by: mc_lovin on October 09, 2012, 10:58:17 PM
I did a blog post on sep 27th on Andrew and BitcoinAdvertisers about scamming and clickfraud.  It looked like he was actively participating in click fraud or allowing it to happen to directly profit off of it from advertisers.  This definitely deserves the scammer tag.

http://btc411.com/2012/09/27/bitcoinadvertisers-scamming-the-bitcoin-community/

So glad to see Andrew's scam-service vanish.


Title: Re: [SCAM] BitcoinAdvertisers.com, BitcoinAdvertising.com, Andrew Bitcoiner
Post by: oldschool on October 09, 2012, 11:18:42 PM
website appears to be back up, and ads are serving on peoples pages, however stats are still down for the public to view....


Title: Re: [SCAM] BitcoinAdvertisers.com, BitcoinAdvertising.com, Andrew Bitcoiner
Post by: drakahn on October 15, 2012, 05:18:28 AM
Still wondering why a decision either way was never made here...