Bitcoin Forum

With the recent launch of the first commercial space rocket via space x http://www.spacex.com/ I wonder at what point there will be a bitcoin node operating in a satellite so that it would bypass any government control from earth ?

Would it need a whole satellite or could it piggyback on an existing one ?

I dunno but I pledge 0.02 btc towards its creation.

 ;D

I would even give a whole 1 BTC!  ;D

I'd pledge 20btc.

Are there any space junkies here? I think this would be an awesome idea and I'd love to be a part of it or even manage the project!

Sort of related:

http://www.ubergizmo.com/2012/03/the-pirate-bay-is-headed-to-space/

TBH it wouldn't be that hard to put a small solar powered Bitcoin node into space using a weather balloon + small rocket ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockoon ).

It won't be able to get it into orbit, but it'll stay there for a while anyways, currently the cheapest method of getting something into orbit costs $11,000,000 per launch, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pegasus_%28rocket%29

Blazr spots a pretty cool weekend project

I want an orbiting node!

Theres a german hackerspace trying to put up their own satelites that can be used to access the internet.

they sell "kits" to get your own one up and encourage others to do the same to make a robust network.

Im sure adding 5ghash of mining equipment into the thing would be trivial to do.

Peeer2SpacePool for the serious win.

So do I, so do I  ;D

I saw awhile ago that the pirate bay was looking to do something similar with an orbiting server or unmanned drones. http://www.ubergizmo.com/2012/03/the-pirate-bay-is-headed-to-space/  

I wonder what the network latency would be  :)

We could probably get 100gh if we wanted to. I'm sure some FPGA companies would be happy to donate!
We could use the FPGAs to raise funds before launch as well.

I'm going to get some numbers together and see how we can do this. If it is feasible, I will seriously consider putting together a GLBSE asset to raise funds for this awesome project!

Well damn, GPUmax it is then... xD

The latency wouldnt be so bad. its half the time than using a wireless HSDPA device (only one direction ;))

Id be up for giving some small amount of funding towards this. Do have a look for this german hacker group, i think between them and new tech coming out we could be on to a very novel winner idea.

It would be seriously cool to do so and create a media storm  :D

Interorbital Systems (http://www.interorbital.com/) has a Personal Satellite Kit (http://www.interorbital.com/TubeSat_1.htm) for sale that includes "a launch to orbit on our NEPTUNE 30 rocket for the combined price $8,000."

The downside is that it's meant to go into a self-decaying orbit and only stay up for a few weeks and burn up upon re-entry.

I like the hackers in space idea a bit more :D

The satellite would also need solar power especially if you wanted to actually mine btc  :)

Isn't it trivial to detect and shoot down something like that?

Like they say in this article that would be an act of war and a sign of how desperate they are  :)

http://www.tweaktown.com/news/23064/the_pirate_bay_plans_to_launch_space_servers_to_prevent_being_raided/index.html

They would not be firing missiles to take it down. THAT would cause attention lol.

And the Kessler syndrome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kessler_syndrome).

I'd fully support this initiative, but I suspect a significant amount of capital would be necessary.

Indeed it would.

I wonder if Nefario would be willing to pledge 8btc. (GLBSE asset creation fee) :P

How would we make profit off it though? Seems more like a project for which to solicit donations, not investors...

At first I thought, "mining in space", but you cant cool the rigs up there...

http://discovermagazine.com/2008/apr/05-space

I pledge 1 Satoshi.

garr255

as you are fond of quotes how about "even the longest journey starts with a single step"

I would support an initiative listed on glbse- just go for it- a simple, investment returned if it does not take off (literally) would satisfy most and the reward- a slot on the satelite (it would be worth millions). reg

                http://bitcoinpyramid.com/r/2314 (http://bitcoinpyramid.com/r/2314)

A satellite in orbit would greatly increase the range of the Coinapult for sure !

I will gauge interest with this thread. Hopefully we're able to get enough pledges to even bother with opening up an asset.



Haha.


Of course we will throw some FPGAs and ASICs up there!

Doesn't matter that there's no air, plenty cold ambiently.

Actually, it would be an excellent environment for mining. No cooling required and extremely efficient solar power. If you could manage to get reasonably priced internet bandwidth and a large enough volume, it could be cost-efficient...

Anyone know how difficult it would be to maintain a geosynchronous orbit?

The cooling would require heat radiators and maybe even liquid cooling even with FPGA, but it is of course possible. 

Its -270.3celsius in space, you would need to warm up the FPGA rather than cool it.

Yup. Heatsinks would be serious overkill. It might even have issues running at that low a temperature...

http://www.xilinx.com/support/documentation/data_sheets/ds162.pdf

Yeah, that'll be a problem. Guess we'll have to solar-heat the mining rigs.

Man, heating mining rigs. Not exactly a usual combination of words.

I just mailed someone who will ask Harvard whether they want to get involved with this. Does anybody have any MIT hookups?

Wonder if you could get electricity by using Peltier chips backwards - the heat from the miner would run the hot side, and space would run the cold side, and electricity comes out the middle. But that sounds too much like a perpetual motion machine that won't work for some reason.

Or maybe the sun will heat the hot side of the Peltier chips, and the GPUs/FPGAs/ASICs will just dump the heat into space. What is a Peltier chip's efficiency compared to solar?

Space is a vacuum.  You do not get free cooling by touching nothingness.   The vacuum acts as an insulator and therefore some way of radiating heat via radiation has to be used.  Maybe the WHOLE satellite could use the heat to stay at temperature so heat pipes of some kind would be used.  

The peltier chips are much worse then solar except where there is no sun.  Peltier like devices have been used in space to make 'nuclear batteries' like on the voyager probes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioisotope_thermoelectric_generator

 

While looking at sites featuring Peltier chips, I found this:

http://www.unitednuclear.com/images/mainpics/nerd.gif lol.

The ultimate questions are: Will we be heating or cooling the FPGAs? Will we be heating or cooling the satellite?

I suspect most high-profile universities will be hesitant to associate themselves with Bitcoins.

Even if they are willing, what are we accomplishing here? An intriguing idea, but more a novelty than anything else.

If you were mining in space, you would be cooling.  You could develop strategies for heat, maybe as I said above the mining heat could keep the rest of the satellite warm, depending on scale.  Maybe if the mining load was small enough there would be no heating or cooling and it would be balanced. 

Mining is probably more complex, power-inefficient and heat-expensive than any of us are likely to get into orbit any time soon, but if all we're after is putting a network node or ten into geosync orbit, private satellites aren't all that hard to do. Expensive by most standards, sure, but you can definitely put one in orbit for the cost of a nice car :

http://realdoctorstu.com/2011/03/03/out-of-this-world-the-amateurs-guide-to-building-your-own-satellite/

Direct sunlight is going to be the biggest issue in regards to cooling: http://digg.com/news/science/Why_Does_the_Space_Station_Need_an_Air_Conditioner

I'm still curious about how difficult it might be for a node to access satellite internet: http://www.vsat-systems.com/satellite-internet/how-it-works.html

There are very few particles in space, so even at this temperature, the vacuum acts as an insulator and the rig might overheat. If you could take the heat produced, turn it back into electricity, and use solar power, then it might become energy-efficient.

Also if the satellite is in a high enough orbit then solar radiation might impact the performance of the rig.

Here's what I'm thinking. Rent space on an existing satellite or purchase the cheapest one possible. Call it a sovereign nation. Send and receive deeply encrypted messages back and forth to it (note, I don't state what these messages consist of, but I'm leaning toward Klingon Love Songs). If any governing body proves that bitcoins aren't being moved via said satellite, it would be like them stating that they're purposely intercepting our transmissions, and that's a no-no. Gave the satellite a name, and have people join this sovereign nation. The money aspect would already be in place.

~Bruno~

We're in luck! A couple satellites just happen to be for sale: http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/imagegallery/image_feature_50.html

http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/24725main_MM_Image_Feature_50_rs4.jpg

Unfortunately, they're for sale for a reason.  :-\

Wow, you're full of information aren't you?  Most of it wrong.  You just quoted an ambient temp for a nearly perfect vacuum, which is something that has no meaning.  The surface temp of any object that does not produce it's own heat is a balance point of radiation received and radiation emitted.  Outside of Earth's atmosphere and in direct sunlight, that surface temp is closer to 92 Degree Celsius.   To get anywhere near the number you quoted an object would either have to be so far away from the Sun that it was barely larger a star than any other, or permanently in the shadow of a major object that did not emit infrared heat from it's dark side.  The only reason that space could be considered 'cold' anywhere near Earth's own solar orbit, or anywhere on our side Mars, would be because the boiling point of water is below it's own freezing point, evaporating off your skin instantly and taking heat with it for as long as it lasts.  That would be the least of your worries, though.  And it has zero to do with how to regulate the temp of a space born mining rig.

I've learnt more from researching things mentioned in this thread that I have all year at school. But that isn't saying much, sadly.

I have no idea what you guys have been smoking there altogether.

... hmm ... thinking of it ... yeah, maybe that could work. 11M$ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pegasus_%28rocket%29) for getting the satellite up? Cool, that's only 1/3 of the bitcoin market cap. I would be in with 1BTC, too :)

Of course we won't launch our own, dedicated rocket. That's totally out of the question. The goal here is to get a self sustaining computer orbiting, and preferably hashing!

I like this idea but with a twist :)

I would slice the satellite up into 1mm or cm squares and sell each square to the "residents" for bitcoins. People could then buy and sell their "real estate" in bitcoins. Each square entitles them to citizenship in the sovereign "nation" and have a "land tax".

Maybe you could create an isp in space that is not allied with any earthly government and residents get access to it.

Im sure the pirate bay would own one of those squares and could use a .bit domain on top for redundancy :)

If you guys are serious about actually putting any kit in space, I'd suggest that you seriously consider teaming up with the hackspace groups.

http://wiki.london.hackspace.org.uk/view/Project:HackSat1 (http://wiki.london.hackspace.org.uk/view/Project:HackSat1)

Theres also plans for a global grid of base stations for communications with the satellites.

http://shackspace.de/wiki/doku.php?id=project:hgg (http://shackspace.de/wiki/doku.php?id=project:hgg)

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/251588730/kicksat-your-personal-spacecraft-in-space  hmm

I read "geo stationary" somehwere. Wouldn't it be even better to orbit the planet so people in one censored state get their transactions processed at one hour while in other such funny states at other hours?
Also if this machine is meant for any real purpose other than just for the fun of it, I don't see room for hashing other than a symbolic FPGA from our biggest sponsor.

Here is a Tip Jar to make it happen.  If we collect $1000, we can pledge that into the KickSat program (the one on the kickstarter). For that we could get the Sprite dev kit and program it.  Or we could choose another way.

https://propster.me/tipjar/0c7p89m

I don't know why it would need to be hashing.  A node with a full blockchain would be good though, with some method of communicating with it.  An Amsat would work for that.

Why a geosat?  Those are much more expensive for a number of reasons, and a geosat can't cover the entire earth, we would need at least three of them. 

There would be no practical method of determining which transactions originated from any particular nation, even if that were a desirable goal.

I don't think we should collect anything until we at least have a plan of action that is agreed upon.

So, hashing in unnecessary, and only good for style points :P

I propose a computer dedicated to running the node with a redundant storage medium obviously able to operate in space. I'm not sure whether HDD will work in space, so if not a HDD raid then SSD. It would be nice to have a hundred terabytes or so, so ensure this will be able to hold the entire chain. Who has calculations for how big it will be in 10,50,100 years?

Well KickSat won't work for this. You can run your own code, but only very limited C code. And, they will be fired into low altitude orbit and will burn up after a few weeks.

Yes, that is out of the question. We need a long term solution. I'm hoping for it to last 20-50 years

Why don't we just claim that we have a cloaked satellite(s) in space that beams all relative information back to Earth, some of which is stored on the P2P network? Then sell sovereign memberships.

Wouldn't you rather own a part of a real satellite?

 8)

Doesn't matter as long as pruning is enabled.