Bitcoin Forum

Bitcoin => Bitcoin Discussion => Topic started by: phathash on May 16, 2011, 01:51:42 PM



Title: Slashdotted (again)
Post by: phathash on May 16, 2011, 01:51:42 PM
#1 story on ./ "BitCoin, the Most Dangerous Project Ever?"

forum seems slow to load!


Title: Re: Slashdotted (again)
Post by: kseistrup on May 16, 2011, 01:57:22 PM
I thought we were being DDoS'ed (which we are, in a way)…


Title: Re: Slashdotted (again)
Post by: stakhanov on May 16, 2011, 02:26:07 PM
I think the technology reddit is a much more likely culprit:

http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/hc63x/bitcoin_p2p_currency_the_most_dangerous_project/

Slashdot isn't that big anymore.


Title: Re: Slashdotted (again)
Post by: technotarian on May 16, 2011, 02:41:59 PM
Yes, the forum is slow as cold soup.

Switching over to https:// helps ... hmmmm?


Title: Re: Slashdotted (again)
Post by: technotarian on May 16, 2011, 03:06:25 PM
By jove, this was a good read (the reddit link);

Q:    If the laptop is destroyed, those bitcoins can never be used again, and they are effectively out of circulation, but new coins are not created to replace them.

C: I shall call this the second law of bitcoin dynamics!


Title: Re: Slashdotted (again)
Post by: AtlasONo on May 16, 2011, 04:31:27 PM
They're even less impressed with the article than you guys were.  ::)


Title: Re: Slashdotted (again)
Post by: BioMike on May 16, 2011, 07:37:00 PM
With such title on slashdot, I didn't even bothered to read the article... I was quite embarrassed with such title on slashdot. Seemed a bit that someone bought bitcoins just before MtGox went down and wanted to push MtGox back with some cheap publicity.


Title: Re: Slashdotted (again)
Post by: alkor on May 16, 2011, 07:42:49 PM
Most of the comments on slashdot were quite hostile. Either they claimed bitcoin was a scam project, or that a deflationary currency is not viable.


Title: Re: Slashdotted (again)
Post by: Anonymous on May 16, 2011, 07:46:14 PM
Most of the comments on slashdot were quite hostile. Either they claimed bitcoin was a scam project, or that a deflationary currency is not viable.
They don't believe in economic freedom. You can't expect anything more.


Title: Re: Slashdotted (again)
Post by: BioMike on May 16, 2011, 07:47:52 PM
Most of the comments on slashdot were quite hostile. Either they claimed bitcoin was a scam project, or that a deflationary currency is not viable.

Has been like that with previous posts as well... Most don't bother to look how it works and just yell (in a IANAL-type of fashion).


Title: Re: Slashdotted (again)
Post by: kiba on May 16, 2011, 07:49:57 PM
Most of the comments on slashdot were quite hostile. Either they claimed bitcoin was a scam project, or that a deflationary currency is not viable.
They don't believe in economic freedom. You can't expect anything more.

No. They are dumb shit compared to the Hacker News, who actually evolve their opinions on bitcoin.


Title: Re: Slashdotted (again)
Post by: jed on May 16, 2011, 07:58:13 PM
The problem is the way bitcoin is presented. You guys all like it because you are libertarian types. But keep in mind that the vast majority of people in the world aren't. But bitcoin doesn't just appeal to libertarian types. All you need to say to promote it is:
Bitcoin is a free paypal that anyone can use.

Please leave the libertarian, going to replace all other currencies, take over the world stuff out of it. That just turns people off.
The only important thing for people to know is that it is better than what people use now for online payments.


Title: Re: Slashdotted (again)
Post by: Matt Corallo on May 16, 2011, 07:58:56 PM
Seriously, why do people link that article.  Its just linkbait.  Its a sensationalist article which isn't very well written and is just a copy/paste of some of the stuff that bitcoiners say, it isn't even thought through or discussed.  Then again what do you expect from Jason Calacanis?


Title: Re: Slashdotted (again)
Post by: Matt Corallo on May 16, 2011, 08:00:55 PM
The problem is the way bitcoin is presented. You guys all like it because you are libertarian types. But keep in mind that the vast majority of people in the world aren't. But bitcoin doesn't just appeal to libertarian types. All you need to say to promote it is:
Bitcoin is a free paypal that anyone can use.
So true, so true.


Title: Re: Slashdotted (again)
Post by: JohnDoe on May 16, 2011, 08:04:14 PM
People have been brainwashed their whole lives into thinking that inflation is an acceptable property of a currency. Some people are slower than the rest in erasing their preconceptions...


Title: Re: Slashdotted (again)
Post by: BitterTea on May 16, 2011, 08:07:56 PM
The problem is the way bitcoin is presented. You guys all like it because you are libertarian types. But keep in mind that the vast majority of people in the world aren't. But bitcoin doesn't just appeal to libertarian types. All you need to say to promote it is:
Bitcoin is a free paypal that anyone can use.

Please leave the libertarian, going to replace all other currencies, take over the world stuff out of it. That just turns people off.
The only important thing for people to know is that it is better than what people use now for online payments.


This seems misleading, as Paypal is a transmission method for supported currencies while Bitcoin is a currency of its own. Saying it's like Paypal might lead people to believe that they can use it anywhere Paypal is accepted, rather than the limited number of merchants that accept Bitcoin.


Title: Re: Slashdotted (again)
Post by: barbarousrelic on May 16, 2011, 08:14:00 PM
The problem is the way bitcoin is presented. You guys all like it because you are libertarian types. But keep in mind that the vast majority of people in the world aren't. But bitcoin doesn't just appeal to libertarian types. All you need to say to promote it is:
Bitcoin is a free paypal that anyone can use.

Please leave the libertarian, going to replace all other currencies, take over the world stuff out of it. That just turns people off.
The only important thing for people to know is that it is better than what people use now for online payments.

If you don't explain to people that it's not dollar-denominated, that it is an entirely new currency that can increase or decrease in value relative to the dollar, you are misinforming them.


Title: Re: Slashdotted (again)
Post by: Matt Corallo on May 16, 2011, 08:15:49 PM
This seems misleading, as Paypal is a transmission method for supported currencies while Bitcoin is a currency of its own. Saying it's like Paypal might lead people to believe that they can use it anywhere Paypal is accepted, rather than the limited number of merchants that accept Bitcoin.
So you inform them of that.  Still, its purpose is similar to Paypal and that should be advertised, not that it is designed to redo the entire financial system on a deflationary currency.


Title: Re: Slashdotted (again)
Post by: BitterTea on May 16, 2011, 08:22:28 PM
So you inform them of that.  Still, its purpose is similar to Paypal and that should be advertised, not that it is designed to redo the entire financial system on a deflationary currency.

Then they ask "why are there only 21 million? that's not enough!?".

Besides, I would argue that it was designed to address the flaws of our current financial system.

Quote from: satoshi
The root problem with conventional currency is all the trust thats required to make it
work. The central bank must be trusted not to debase the currency, but the history of
fiat currencies is full of breaches of that trust. Banks must be trusted to hold our
money and transfer it electronically, but they lend it out in waves of credit bubbles
with barely a fraction in reserve. We have to trust them with our privacy, trust them
not to let identity thieves drain our accounts. Their massive overhead costs make
micropayments impossible.

A generation ago, multi-user time-sharing computer systems had a similar problem.
Before strong encryption, users had to rely on password protection to secure their
files, placing trust in the system administrator to keep their information private.
Privacy could always be overridden by the admin based on his judgment call weighing the
principle of privacy against other concerns, or at the behest of his superiors. Then
strong encryption became available to the masses, and trust was no longer required.
Data could be secured in a way that was physically impossible for others to access, no
matter for what reason, no matter how good the excuse, no matter what.

Its time we had the same thing for money. With e-currency based on cryptographic
proof, without the need to trust a third party middleman, money can be secure and
transactions effortless.


Title: Re: Slashdotted (again)
Post by: unk on May 16, 2011, 08:22:40 PM
Seriously, why do people link that article.  Its just linkbait.  Its a sensationalist article which isn't very well written and is just a copy/paste of some of the stuff that bitcoiners say, it isn't even thought through or discussed.  Then again what do you expect from Jason Calacanis?

well said!


Title: Re: Slashdotted (again)
Post by: spndr7 on May 16, 2011, 08:24:02 PM
I just read some parts of the article at slashdot . I think people having become over-cautious to anonymous and untraceable nature of bitcoin.
Every good thing in the world can be used to the worst.

A part from the article --

"The article talks about the untraceable, un-hackable nature of BitCoin. They can't be locked down like PayPal, and the article predicts that governments will start banning them in the next 18 months."

If any of the govt. bans bitcoin,that itself will propel bitcoin's popularity to the masses and it will upon them to think whether it is good or bad .

Another set of comment the articles arising from ignorance --

Cornwallis (1188489) writes: "BitCoin should be banned because we want our currency to be as safe and stable as the U.S. dollar."

jandrese (485) writes:" I could only read that article with the late night salesguy's "These collector coins can only go up in value!" voice, but the content of the article was all about how it's clearly a scam and the author is obviously in on it."

Is there a author ?

I think we need to clear misconceptions .


Title: Re: Slashdotted (again)
Post by: gigabytecoin on May 16, 2011, 08:26:52 PM
With such title on slashdot, I didn't even bothered to read the article... I was quite embarrassed with such title on slashdot. Seemed a bit that someone bought bitcoins just before MtGox went down and wanted to push MtGox back with some cheap publicity.

I am 90% certain that Calcanis purchased ~100k of them a week or two before his show, and is now trying to promote the crap out of them for a quick profit.


Title: Re: Slashdotted (again)
Post by: vuce on May 16, 2011, 08:28:14 PM
Cornwallis (1188489) writes: "BitCoin should be banned because we want our currency to be as safe and stable as the U.S. dollar."
I'm pretty sure this was a sarcastic remark :)


Title: Re: Slashdotted (again)
Post by: elewton on May 16, 2011, 08:30:17 PM
I am 90% certain that Calcanis purchased ~100k of them a week or two before his show, and is now trying to promote the crap out of them for a quick profit.

Bingo.  Now does he cash out quick, or does he go in for the long haul?


Title: Re: Slashdotted (again)
Post by: BitterTea on May 16, 2011, 08:31:13 PM
With such title on slashdot, I didn't even bothered to read the article... I was quite embarrassed with such title on slashdot. Seemed a bit that someone bought bitcoins just before MtGox went down and wanted to push MtGox back with some cheap publicity.

I am 90% certain that Calcanis purchased ~100k of them a week or two before his show, and is now trying to promote the crap out of them for a quick profit.

What evidence leads you to this conclusion?


Title: Re: Slashdotted (again)
Post by: Matt Corallo on May 16, 2011, 08:36:04 PM
Besides, I would argue that it was designed to address the flaws of our current financial system.
No, you are right, sorry I misspoke.  I meant that although it might have been satoshi's intent, I dont think its reasonable within any reasonable timespan.  That said, bitcoin has many uses for Internet transactions (great for digital goods so that people anywhere in the world can easily buy things) and maybe some use cases in LDCs. 


Title: Re: Slashdotted (again)
Post by: eMansipater on May 16, 2011, 08:48:37 PM
The problem is the way bitcoin is presented. You guys all like it because you are libertarian types. But keep in mind that the vast majority of people in the world aren't. But bitcoin doesn't just appeal to libertarian types. All you need to say to promote it is:
Bitcoin is a free paypal that anyone can use.

Please leave the libertarian, going to replace all other currencies, take over the world stuff out of it. That just turns people off.
The only important thing for people to know is that it is better than what people use now for online payments.
+10
It seems that very few people talking up BitCoin on other sites have a good grasp of the way this sort of thing actually looks to the majority of people.  If you restrict your pitch to your own philosophical interest in BitCoin, you will at best appeal to that narrow subset of people who already agree with you.  If you leave out your own philosophical agenda and just talk about BitCoin as BitCoin--a protocol, not a philosophy--you will hook every geek out there.

My number one concern for the future of BitCoin is that it be restricted to those of a very particular philosophical bent which represent only a couple percent of the general geek population (and not me).  Even though I'm essentially a kopimist, I never would have tried to sell BitTorrent as the birth of the kopimist utopia.  I would have just talked plain tech, because that's how BitTorrent succeeded:  everywhere.  This community needs to stop vomiting their own dogfood over everyone and allow BitCoin to start diversifying.


Title: Re: Slashdotted (again)
Post by: unk on May 16, 2011, 09:07:27 PM
With such title on slashdot, I didn't even bothered to read the article... I was quite embarrassed with such title on slashdot. Seemed a bit that someone bought bitcoins just before MtGox went down and wanted to push MtGox back with some cheap publicity.

I am 90% certain that Calcanis purchased ~100k of them a week or two before his show, and is now trying to promote the crap out of them for a quick profit.

i'm not at all a fan of calacanis, but i doubt this. he couldn't be that stupid, because this would probably be very public and easily investigated securities fraud. didn't some celebrity rapper run afoul of the same thing (not bitcoins, obviously, but some penny stock) on twitter a few months ago?


Title: Re: Slashdotted (again)
Post by: benjamindees on May 16, 2011, 09:48:02 PM
Bitcoin is not a security.  No one is under the impression that Bitcoin is backed by anything.


Title: Re: Slashdotted (again)
Post by: Shortline on May 16, 2011, 10:00:20 PM
The problem is the way bitcoin is presented. You guys all like it because you are libertarian types. But keep in mind that the vast majority of people in the world aren't. But bitcoin doesn't just appeal to libertarian types. All you need to say to promote it is:
Bitcoin is a free paypal that anyone can use.

Please leave the libertarian, going to replace all other currencies, take over the world stuff out of it. That just turns people off.
The only important thing for people to know is that it is better than what people use now for online payments.


Huzzah! Too true. Though I think bitcoin is a robust enough idea to withstand the general disdain most people have for anything libertarian, there's an exclusionary attitude around these forums that doesn't help either. Every time you say the word "bankster" or "brainwashing" one person nods in assent, two people are bored and ten leave in disgust. Just sayin - no need to post it in every single thread, you do more harm than good.

This seems misleading, as Paypal is a transmission method for supported currencies while Bitcoin is a currency of its own. Saying it's like Paypal might lead people to believe that they can use it anywhere Paypal is accepted, rather than the limited number of merchants that accept Bitcoin.

Huzzah! Also too true. I suggest:

Bitcoin is the native currency of the World Wide Web.


Title: Re: Slashdotted (again)
Post by: BitterTea on May 16, 2011, 10:02:08 PM
I suggest:

Bitcoin is the native currency of the World Wide Web.

How about...

Bitcoin is a peer to peer protocol used to exchange scarce cryptographic tokens called bitcoins, which can be used as money.


Title: Re: Slashdotted (again)
Post by: nereer on May 16, 2011, 10:02:39 PM
I am 90% certain that Calcanis purchased ~100k of them a week or two before his show, and is now trying to promote the crap out of them for a quick profit.

Well, apparently he popped up on the forums the other day, so he is doing hell of a performance if his real aim is pump & dump. I get the impression he is really excited about the project. Note that this does not mean he is doing exactly what you say anyway.


Title: Re: Slashdotted (again)
Post by: Nekrobios on May 16, 2011, 10:03:06 PM
Bitcoin is the native currency of the World Wide Web.
This! Bitcoin is the Internet’s money.


Title: Re: Slashdotted (again)
Post by: Shortline on May 16, 2011, 10:11:42 PM
Bitcoin is the native currency of the World Wide Web.
This! Bitcoin is the Internet’s money.

Yeah I thought that too but I feel if you don't say "currency" it'll bring to mind beenz and flooz and whatever the hell. Currency is an under-utilized and powerful word. To my mind, "Internet money" conjures an image of etheriality and substancelessness not on par with the current/projected buying power of bitcoin.






Title: Re: Slashdotted (again)
Post by: technotarian on May 17, 2011, 07:03:21 AM

It is actually something more than money, as we know it ... (it's money Jim, but not as we know it).

Bitcoin will succeed regardless and because of "dog-food vomiting libertarians."

The socialists and statists will not be able to overcome their greed and yearning to have the best money and information technology available. They will use bitcoin in spite of themselves. We will shove it down their throats and they will ask for more hard currency. True Liberty has never come about through pretty means, palatable to the braindead masses.


"Occasionally the tree of Liberty must be watered with the blood of Patriots and Tyrants."
— Thomas Jefferson

(Hopefully in an online world all this blood-letting is purely figurative ... but "they" got the guns so who knows?)


Title: Re: Slashdotted (again)
Post by: ribuck on May 17, 2011, 10:21:03 AM
"Bitcoins are super-convenient barter tokens for the internet"


Title: Re: Slashdotted (again)
Post by: berlin on May 17, 2011, 10:52:32 AM

It is actually something more than money, as we know it ... (it's money Jim, but not as we know it).

Bitcoin will succeed regardless and because of "dog-food vomiting libertarians."

The socialists and statists will not be able to overcome their greed and yearning to have the best money and information technology available. They will use bitcoin in spite of themselves. We will shove it down their throats and they will ask for more hard currency. True Liberty has never come about through pretty means, palatable to the braindead masses.


"Occasionally the tree of Liberty must be watered with the blood of Patriots and Tyrants."
— Thomas Jefferson

(Hopefully in an online world all this blood-letting is purely figurative ... but "they" got the guns so who knows?)

Socialists are greedy now?  ???


Title: Re: Slashdotted (again)
Post by: jed on May 17, 2011, 01:16:22 PM
Quote
Bitcoin is a peer to peer protocol used to exchange scarce cryptographic tokens called bitcoins, which can be used as money.

But people don't care how things work. They just want them to work. (This is still lightyears better than mentioning how it will take out banks though)

Quote
Bitcoins are super-convenient barter tokens for the internet

This is better since it speaks more to function.

But I still think saying how it is an improvement over something people are already familiar with (like paypal) is better. Even if the comparison isn't the complete story. The above quote will make most people think, "What do I need barter tokens for?"


Title: Re: Slashdotted (again)
Post by: Terpie on May 17, 2011, 01:22:00 PM
Quote
Bitcoin is a peer to peer protocol used to exchange scarce cryptographic tokens called bitcoins, which can be used as money.

But people don't care how things work. They just want them to work. (This is still lightyears better than mentioning how it will take out banks though)

Quote
Bitcoins are super-convenient barter tokens for the internet

This is better since it speaks more to function.

But I still think saying how it is an improvement over something people are already familiar with (like paypal) is better. Even if the comparison isn't the complete story. The above quote will make most people think, "What do I need barter tokens for?"


Important characteristics that need to be harped on:

Unfreezable
Predictable (Unable to be manipulated)
Near-zero transaction fees
Potentially Anonymous


Title: Re: Slashdotted (again)
Post by: Nesetalis on May 17, 2011, 01:23:57 PM
of course, because socialists are "evil" and greed is "evil" so socialists = greedy :D its just basic math!


Title: Re: Slashdotted (again)
Post by: JohnDoe on May 17, 2011, 01:24:37 PM
Socialists are greedy now?  ???

Of course. They always want to steal more from the productive to give to the unproductive.


Title: Re: Slashdotted (again)
Post by: ribuck on May 17, 2011, 01:38:12 PM
Quote
Bitcoins are super-convenient barter tokens for the internet

This is better since it speaks more to function.

But I still think saying how it is an improvement over something people are already familiar with (like paypal) is better. Even if the comparison isn't the complete story.

I agree with you, Jed, that comparing Bitcoin to familiar things such as PayPal is the most productive option.

But I can't bring myself to tell people "Bitcoin is a free paypal that anyone can use" when Bitcoin isn't always free to use. And I can't think of an honest slogan that's as catchy as your slogan.


Title: Re: Slashdotted (again)
Post by: speeder on May 17, 2011, 01:57:14 PM
Quote
Bitcoins are super-convenient barter tokens for the internet

This is better since it speaks more to function.

But I still think saying how it is an improvement over something people are already familiar with (like paypal) is better. Even if the comparison isn't the complete story.

I agree with you, Jed, that comparing Bitcoin to familiar things such as PayPal is the most productive option.

But I can't bring myself to tell people "Bitcoin is a free paypal that anyone can use" when Bitcoin isn't always free to use. And I can't think of an honest slogan that's as catchy as your slogan.

Agreed!

Totally. And I would use that slogan... I hate when I see someone explaining bitcoin as a crytocurrencywhatnot and people just look at them with a "huhwtf?!?!?" face.