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Economy => Services => Topic started by: CentiMine on May 17, 2011, 02:21:09 PM



Title: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE (CM400) - Final payout!
Post by: CentiMine on May 17, 2011, 02:21:09 PM
I'm proud to announce the start of CentiMine, the mini-mining contract.

What is it all about?
In a nutshell, you can buy 1 share at the price of 1 bitcent of 40,000 shares of a 3 months 400MH/s contract at bitcoinrigs.com.

This also explains the name of this business - even with the free 5 Bitcents from the faucet, you can start investing in a mining contract and buy 5 shares.

The asset name on GLBSE for this contract is "CM400" - short for "CentiMine 400 MH/s".
You can get an overview over all assets on GLBSE at http://dev.glbse.com/cgi-bin/list

How will the contract be fulfilled?
There will be 2 types of payouts, 1 big one at the end of the contract to keep rounding issues low and a weekly smaller payout.
The smaller payout will be the BTC generated on the previous Saturday and Sunday and be paid out on friday night to enable you to enjoy a bit-beer or so. This is also to reward people jumping on and buying shares early, as opposed to getting in late to get the big share (5/7th of the total income).

Tracking will be done at the moment manually by me via a google docs spreadsheet (so it is also nice to visualize via charts etc.), feel free to access it at:
https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=tPbfdCrHmt_YDG3wo1c_92A&authkey=CN3s45YH

As this is done via GLBSE and everything is done/paid (on your side) in BTC, this is also a completely anonymous way to obtain a mining contract. You do not have to give your address or any other information to any mining contractor and I too cannot track who buys and trades these shares. Should this first try be a success, I might also offer additional contracts depending on demand in the future.

I plan to hand out 100% of the shares in this contract, in 2 waves:
Wave 1: This week as soon as the first payment of the contract arrived, limited to 5,000 shares to be able to check if everything works out on GLBSE
Wave 2: If everything works as expected, the rest of the shares until latest in one week from now: Tuesday 24th of May 2011.

As an "early bird bonus" (and to test the payout system on GLBSE) I will hand out 5 of my own bitcoins on Friday, 20th of May 2011 to the holder(s) of these 5,000 shares. [cancelled, as the "shipping" time of the contract took longer than expected - first coins came in on Saturday, 21st of May 2011]

Should there be any questions, or should you need assistance with GLBSE (command line clients are not for everyone, I know), feel free to ask.

There is now by the way also a nice online client available, check it out on GLBSE.com!

Links:
GLBSE: http://glbse.com/
GLBSE client installation instructions (Windows): https://gitorious.org/black-market/pages/Windows
GLBSE how-to (how to use the client): https://gitorious.org/black-market/pages/Tutorial
GLBSE vmware appliance: http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=7912.0

GLBSE asset list: http://dev.glbse.com/cgi-bin/list
Link to this asset (CM400): http://dev.glbse.com/cgi-bin/asset?id=a3418fd35b48dbb9d366018537917dbc6481878fbfec8486751f1c411f210d7d.xml

Charts (not complete dataset yet, as it seems): http://charts.glbse.com/markets/CM400.html
List of recent trades: http://charts.glbse.com/markets/CM400/trades.html

Payouts so far:
Date|BTC|Comment
Fri. May 27th|0.0|Payout function on GLBSE not yet tested
Fri. June 3rd|5.16|3.3 from 1 week before + 1.86 from this week
Mon. June 13th|1.86|Bug in payout code fixed by nefario
Fri. June 17th|1.42|-
Fri. June 24th|0.92|-
Fri. July 1st|0.58|-
Fri. July 29th|2.10|Bulk payout from the past 4 weekends
Fri. August 26th|282.38|Final payout of weekend AND weekday balance

Upcoming payouts:
Date|BTC|Comment
never|0|No more payouts, as specified in the contract

Please note that payouts will be split amongst all 40000 shares, not just the shares sold.


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE
Post by: CentiMine on May 17, 2011, 02:36:24 PM
Ok, it seems this thread got moved from "Marketplace" here. Sorry to have caused any confusion or trouble.

The original reasoning to put it there was that dishwara + SIN also have their threads regarding their mining contract sales in that other area.


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE
Post by: CentiMine on May 21, 2011, 10:04:20 AM
The good, the bad and the not-so-good:

Good news: The order finally got set on "delivered", so I expect the first payment(s) to roll in very soon

Bad news: It took a bit longer than anticipated to get this whole project started, sorry for that - however as there were no shares handed out for buying yet (for exactly that reason and to ensure everything is properly done BEFORE people start investing), no damage other than maybe to my image has been done.

Not-so-good news: The function to pay out dividends on GLBSE is not yet implemented (the "btc.py pay" function) - so currently it's not possible to pay out the weekly income. However this is expected to change within ~the next two weeks and I'll see how it goes from there. I also requested to have it possible to specify a time in advance for dividend payouts, so I can already during the week issue the payout command and it will be processed exactly in time on Friday then. Nefario liked the idea and said he will look into implementing it, when he starts with the payout stuff.

As soon as the first payout from the contract is received (probably tomorrow), I will start with handing out the first batch of shares as planned.

Thanks for waiting and have a nice weekend!


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE
Post by: CentiMine on May 22, 2011, 05:40:57 PM
Alright, the first income rolled in on the account - so I spread out the first 5000 shares as planned.

I hope until next friday the payout function in GLBSE gets implemented - otherwise the weekend payout will be added to the next weekend payout (and so on, until the function or a viable substitute is provided).

Thanks to the holder(s) of the first 197 shares that were sold already for your trust and patience.

May the trading begin! :)



Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE
Post by: kseistrup on May 22, 2011, 06:02:31 PM
It would be useful for potential investors if you published the name of your asset

Cheers,


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE
Post by: CentiMine on May 22, 2011, 06:12:27 PM
Well, yes... ;)

I just linked it, but realized now I didn't write the asset name in the start post (until now) - Thanks!


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE
Post by: kseistrup on May 22, 2011, 06:14:53 PM
But that's not the asset name on GLBSE, is it?


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE
Post by: CentiMine on May 22, 2011, 06:22:52 PM
Well, the asset ID on GLBSE is "CM400" - so if you want to buy 100 shares at 1 Bitcent (not Bitcoin!) each, you would type:
Code:
python bmc.py buy 100 CM400 1000000


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE
Post by: kseistrup on May 22, 2011, 06:24:35 PM
Exactly.  The asset ID is used by the black market client, therefore it would have been useful to mention the asset ID in the original announcement.

Cheers,


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE
Post by: Nefario on May 23, 2011, 08:52:01 AM
I will be introducing sub asset-id's, so if you have the asset id CM400, you can then have the asset id CM400.q1 at (what will be) no extra cost.

So the format will be
ASSETID.*

So you can have
CM400.2011.Q1 and that will be ok.

Not implemented but working on it, also will implement some payment features during the next few days.


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE
Post by: CentiMine on May 23, 2011, 10:05:02 AM
Oh, great! Then I should also get/reserve a more "general" ticker symbol for the future...

Thanks for the heads-up! :)

Just a short question.
Will it then work like this, assuming I own the ticker symbol "CentiMine" already?:
Code:
python bmc.py new-asset the-unique-CentiMine-400-05-2011-share-contract.xml
python bmc.py ticker [long asset id of the above new asset] CentiMine.400.05-2011
python bmc.py issue 40000 CentiMine.400.05-2011


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE
Post by: Nefario on May 23, 2011, 10:20:55 AM
Oh, great! Then I should also get/reserve a more "general" ticker symbol for the future...

Thanks for the heads-up! :)

Just a short question.
Will it then work like this, assuming I own the ticker symbol "CentiMine" already?:
Code:
python bmc.py new-asset the-unique-CentiMine-400-05-2011-share-contract.xml
python bmc.py ticker [long asset id of the above new asset] CentiMine.400.05-2011
python bmc.py issue 40000 CentiMine.400.05-2011

Exactly, that's the plan.


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE
Post by: eturnerx on May 23, 2011, 10:51:03 AM
I have questions:

What exactly are we buying? 40K bitcents is 400 bitcoins. At today's exchange rates that's over $2,800USD. That should buy about 1400 MHash/s worth of 3 month rentals from BitCoinRigs.com and still leave you plenty for you trouble. (By comparison the 400MHash/s rental contract is $840USD leaving you a tidy profit of about $2000USD. That margin is just too great!)

Is there something I'm missing here? I might invest if I knew what margin you're taking because it's fair you take a profit but it can't be exorbitant.

Otherwise - what a great idea!


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE
Post by: CentiMine on May 23, 2011, 11:37:32 AM
On the one hand it's an anonymity service, which usually come with higher margins - on the other hand there is by far no guarantee how price and difficulty of Bitcoin might turn out (the two biggest factors for mining).

As I intend to sell 100% of the contract, I had to settle with a value that I would be comfortable with. Also when I initially planned this, BTC were worth quite a bit less than now and the recent difficulty increases also were a bit higher than expected, so I see that currently it does not look that attractive to (in the end) bet that 10 Kilohashes/s will generate more than 1 Bitcent within 3 months.

I'm still thinking how to solve these issues in the future (probably even also with this contract) and how to be able to give a price reduction to make it a bit more fair also on the payout side without me risking to loose money.

I initially calculated that a contract like this would cost ~200-300 BTC and would generate ~500 BTC, so I decided to set my price in the middle (also I liked the simplicity of having 1 MH/s for 3 months = 1 BTC). The recent growth in hash rate makes the current pricing look less attractive though.


A possible solution to reduce the margin to a more sane level would be to keep 50% of the shares for "myself" but pay out twice the dividend all the time - so in the end this simulates having 20 000 shares@20KH/s but keeps the initial price in the system.

As this might confuse people quite a bit (and be against the initial share contract) I'm still hesitant if I shouldn't instead "refund" 50% of the initial share cost via the payout function as soon as it's available (to not penalize current early investors) and then re-sell shares at half the price (0,5 Bitcent/share). This might however confuse/scare current investors, if they suddenly see that all their shares are only worth half the money and don't check their balance first.

A third option would be to just manually place 5/7 of the reduction into the "pot" and pay out 2/7 of it as soon as the first weekend payout is possible. Depending on how the payout function works out, it might currently be tough for me to have these 57,14... BTC on GLBSE (even though currently I would get back most of it anyways immediately) or if the system is smart enough to just consider shares other than mine to be paid.


In the end price adaptations are fortunately possible at nearly any point in time (especially with the second/third option) and I'll think of a more attractive price model that still allows me to have a certain margin, but is also more attractive to you guys.


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE
Post by: eturnerx on May 23, 2011, 12:32:31 PM
Okay - I've setting notifications on for this thread. I'm hoping that eventually you'll work out your pitch (clear offer) and have margins that I'm okay with. At that point I'll reconsider investing.

If you're going to change things on present shareholders then consider making the options clear then using the voting feature on GLBSE. Good luck to you.


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE
Post by: CentiMine on May 23, 2011, 02:10:34 PM
Well, actually there is nothing to vote upon - as no voting rights are specified anyways (and I am still the full owner + contact person of that contract).
I would use the vote just for input to take into consideration, but this can also be done here on the forums as you did. Additionally it is not possible for shareholders currently to give other opinions than "yes" or "no" and I want to deal with this issue as fast as possible, as it is an important point that very well could scare away customers.
[Edit: Also I'm giving away my own money in addition to what will be paid out from the contract, not the other way round - and I think I can decide myself how and where to spend it]

I recalculated everything, and since the contract did cost converted to Bitcoin ~100 BTC when bought, I personally think a margin of 50 BTC should be ok. This is given the unique product, time to be and already invested from my side and (especially!) the volatility of the BTC <--> USD prices plus my plans for expansion/resale in the future. I do not want to set a margin in USD and then convert that on the last day into BTC, as it seems a bit arbitrary to me and also would make this more of a gamble than contract-mining currently is. A system like that actually could even lead to me taking ALL BTC mined and the shareholders owing me money, should one BTC become worth much less than it currently is. Also this would then lead again away from using BTC as real currency in my opinion.

The way I'm going to handle this, is that I will keep the prices as they currently are, but deposit 250 BTC into the "pot" (= the 5/7 payout at the end of the contract) from my own money to reduce the effective prices of shares to a more sane level. This means each share has a guaranteed payout of additionally 0,00625 BTC, but also means that in the end I am "borrowing" from the shareholders up to 250 BTC (if all shares are sold) until the contract expires. I promise however to not use that money/ressources for any personal gains or speculative ventures (like buying shares/cashing out), as it belongs to the shareholders - not me. As I would have had that money on my GLBSE account anyways with the previous price too, there is nothing that current shareholders wouldn't have already agreed to.

Also I promise to calculate share values + margin again earlier next time I issue such a contract to prevent unpleasant discoveries like this one. I was even shocked myself, when I entered the current rates in my spreadsheet I used for calculations!

My apologies for any inconvenience caused - the spreadsheet has been updated accordingly and there is also a link to this post as an explanation.


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE
Post by: CentiMine on May 27, 2011, 04:41:49 PM
Small update:

Everything is running smoothly, 361 shares have already been sold.

Unfortunately the payout function of GLBSE is still not in place, so the 3.3 BTC that would have been paid out today, will be paid out in one week from now (and so on, until the payout function is implemented).

Also nefario said he wants to implement a basic webinterface to GLBSE very soon. If you find the current interface too difficult to handle, just wait a little - help might be just around the corner!


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE
Post by: Nefario on May 27, 2011, 05:19:37 PM
The payout functionality is there but not tested (I would seriously recommend not using it, do so at the peril of your own soul).

We've had a breakthrough on the web client so we'll have one to use in about 1-2 weeks.

Sorry for the lack of other updates, this is what has been keeping me busy.


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE
Post by: CentiMine on May 27, 2011, 05:37:03 PM
Ok, I'll count "not yet tested" also as "not to be used". ;)
I really don't want to risk loosing/destroying 3.3 BTC and will wait until I hear from you that it's safe to use.

Thanks for the heads-up and good luck for the web client!


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE
Post by: Nefario on May 31, 2011, 08:54:04 AM
Now tested, you can pay shareholders with:
bmc.py pay CM400 AMOUNT

With AMOUNT being the total amount (full 64bit integer) that will be split over all shares issued.

Payment won't be made to shares that are in the account of the issuer, so only those who have been given or purchased shares will get the payment.

Any questions please let me know, Nefario.


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE
Post by: CentiMine on May 31, 2011, 10:12:31 AM
Just to make sure:

If I have 100 shares in total issued, 1 single share sold and 1 BTC on my GLBSE account:

Will "bmc.py pay [SHARENAME] [100 BTC]"

a) fail, because I don't have 100 BTC in my account to split amongst all shareholders (me and the holder of the 1 external share)
b) send the 1 BTC to the holder of the 1 external share, setting my account balance to 0
c) try to send 100 BTC to the holder of the 1 external share and fail

My expected behaviour would be b), but better be safe than sorry! ;)
[edit: or a), though that could be (nearly) circumvented by sending 100 times 1 BTC (as I would only need a second BTC on my account then), so it would only spam your platform with no different outcome]

Also, how is rounding done?
I might just only send out amounts that are divisible by [amount of total shares] to be sure...


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE
Post by: Nefario on May 31, 2011, 11:07:45 AM
Just to make sure:

If I have 100 shares in total issued, 1 single share sold and 1 BTC on my GLBSE account:

Will "bmc.py pay [SHARENAME] [100 BTC]"

a) fail, because I don't have 100 BTC in my account to split amongst all shareholders (me and the holder of the 1 external share)
b) send the 1 BTC to the holder of the 1 external share, setting my account balance to 0
c) try to send 100 BTC to the holder of the 1 external share and fail

My expected behaviour would be b), but better be safe than sorry! ;)
[edit: or a), though that could be (nearly) circumvented by sending 100 times 1 BTC (as I would only need a second BTC on my account then), so it would only spam your platform with no different outcome]

Also, how is rounding done?
I might just only send out amounts that are divisible by [amount of total shares] to be sure...

If you do not have enough funds to make the payment it will fail as payment is carried out right away, so it will check your account to see if you have enough funds.

If you had enough funds in your account to make the payment then it would pay 100btc to the single external share.

The system doesn't do rounding, it will try to divide the amount by the number of shares, and give an integer. If it's not exact then the remainder will be left in your account, so you don't need to worry about making an exact payment, you just tell the system what you want to pay and it will do it's best so that everyone gets the same with the remainder being left in the account.

Generally the system tends to return errors when state is not as expected (for example you try to pay 100btc but only have 1btc in your account).


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE
Post by: CentiMine on May 31, 2011, 11:40:36 AM
Ok, that means in my case I need to be quick then with payouts after checking the number of shares or I'd need to create a second "handed out shares" account that holds the still to be sold shares.
Otherwise it might happen that I calculate the proper payout for the 371 shares of the 40000 that have been sold, someone at the same time invests 1 BTC (resulting in 100  additional shares sold) and as I issue the payout, it gets split to 471 shares.

After all shares that were intended to be sold are sold, this problem is of course not an issue any more...


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE
Post by: Nefario on May 31, 2011, 11:56:59 AM
You're looking to be able to specify how much to pay per share?


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE
Post by: CentiMine on May 31, 2011, 01:35:28 PM
Yes, that would be a great solution (along with my suggested datetime tag)

"bmc.py paypershare [SHARENAME] [x BTC] [DATETIME in UTC]"

Would be the greatest thing to have! :)

[Edit: Bonus points if shareholders get some kind of notification, that a dividend payout is scheduled]


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE
Post by: Nefario on May 31, 2011, 01:37:51 PM
Yes, that would be a great solution (along with my suggested datetime tag)

"bmc.py paypershare [SHARENAME] [x BTC] [DATETIME in UTC]"

Would be the greatest thing to have! :)

[Edit: Bonus points if shareholders get some kind of notification, that a dividend payout is scheduled]

I'll get on this, will be Friday before it's ready though.


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE
Post by: CentiMine on May 31, 2011, 01:42:04 PM
With the current model I can do the payout this friday already anyways (I guess the risk of someone buying shares in the few seconds I need to issue the payment is low enough) but it would be a good thing to have for the future.


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE
Post by: Nefario on May 31, 2011, 01:54:42 PM
With the current model I can do the payout this friday already anyways (I guess the risk of someone buying shares in the few seconds I need to issue the payment is low enough) but it would be a good thing to have for the future.

You can cancel any sell orders so that no one can buy during that time.


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE
Post by: CentiMine on June 01, 2011, 05:26:10 PM
Thanks, I'll do that then.


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE
Post by: CentiMine on June 03, 2011, 03:18:34 PM
Orders will be cancelled to pay out in 3 minutes, if you want to get parts of this first payout, better be fast! :)

Edit:
Payout done, shares relisted, everything is fine!


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE
Post by: Ookami on June 03, 2011, 05:30:21 PM
worked, got my first payout ^^ (even though it is fairly low (206400) as I only have 16 shares)


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE
Post by: CentiMine on June 04, 2011, 10:47:06 PM
Well, you invested also only 16 Bitcents then, and it was just the payout of 4 days! :P
I'm glad to hear that everything worked out fine though.

Looking forward to the GUI that will go live soon and many more happy customers (I guess a lot of ppl. are just scared away from investing by that commandline client)!


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE
Post by: demonblack on June 05, 2011, 10:55:55 PM
Gonna invest 1.3BTC.
How many btc/week could i expect from such an investment?


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE
Post by: CentiMine on June 06, 2011, 12:08:47 AM
How many btc/week could i expect from such an investment?
This depends entirely on the difficulty rate which is (much like it's name) difficult to predict.
It would be not wise to give you any kind of recommendation here. Do your own math/prediction/crystal ball session and decide if it is worthy to invest or not.

Per week you'll get 2/7th of the BTC mined each week, the remaining 5/7th you'll get at the end of the contract (in ~2.5 months) as outlined in the first post here + in the shares contract.

You can track the progress + current standings transparently and conveniently via https://spreadsheets0.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=tPbfdCrHmt_YDG3wo1c_92A&authkey=CN3s45YH

Please note that you have to divide these numbers by 40 000 and multiply them by your amount of shares to get your current standings for payouts. I did not do that in the spreadsheet, to not make things too complicated and to not have too many "0.00something" numbers there.

Also (of course) that spreadsheet will be expanded as needed, it doesn't mean that the contract ends at the 12th of August!


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE
Post by: Ben Walsh (beamer) on June 06, 2011, 11:46:22 AM
Very interested in a significant investment in this sort of thing but I want to clarify in my mind the numbers for this particular proposal ...

Each share is 0.01 BTC.

Total investment is 0.01 BTC x 40000 shares, so total investment is 400 BTC.

At current difficulty level, a 400 MHps rig will mine 0.93 BTC / day. Thus a 90 day contract should mine 83.7 BTC in total.

As a consequence of the change in difficulty and value of BTC vs $, you have added 250 BTC to the final payout.

This return will be split amongst the 40000 shares so from each 0.01 BTC share I would expect to receive 0.0083425 BTC back i.e. ( ( 83.7 + 250 ) / 40000 ).

How much was paid in BTC and $ for the 400 MHps 90 day mining contract on 21/5/2011 ?

What other assets does the CM400 company own ?

What balance is currently held in the company Bitcoin account ?

What are the current plans on how the remaining BTCs will be spent going forwards ?

How much of the 400 BTCs are you intending to take for managing / administering ?


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE
Post by: CentiMine on June 06, 2011, 12:29:16 PM
How much was paid in BTC and $ for the 400 MHps 90 day mining contract on 21/5/2011 ?
0 BTC and 870 USD were paid for this contract.

What other assets does the CM400 company own ?
CM400 is no company, but a shared contract. I own the remaining shares of this contract, with all of them on "sell" at GLBSE. It is intended that all shares are sold, so that this contract is 100% dispersed.

What balance is currently held in the company Bitcoin account ?
Check the spreadsheet for this, I update it nearly daily. There have been 19.2 BTC mined, out of which 5.16 BTC have been paid out to shareholders.
As the BTC from the contract go to my wallet, which is used for other stuff too, it does not make sense to publish it's address here for verification of the current balance.
(Reason: If I create a transaction, Bitcoin automatically takes coins from a lot of different accounts in my wallet and re-combines them to a transaction, meaning the current balance of the address is not the balance of the contract. I might publish that address in the end of the contract though, so all income is verifiable.)
I guarantee however, that I will always keep a balance of at least the mined BTC in my wallet.
Also I leave the money from selling shares on the GLBSE account to be able to pay the additional "rebate", as the initial price was too high, in the end of the contract.

What are the current plans on how the remaining BTCs will be spent going forwards ?
As written in the share contract, this contract itself will not be prolonged. This means, that after the final dividend has been paid out, the shares are essentially worthless (but might be kept/traded for collection/sentimental reasons?).

I might spend the earnings on another contract, should this experiment be successful. In the end this is my own money though, not something that belongs to a "company".

How much of the 400 BTCs are you intending to take for managing / administering ?
Currently I take 150 BTC for this contract (400-250). For this, 100% of the shares have to be handed out. It depends on difficulty, if this is a good deal or not for buyers, as with every mining contract.

For investing you get:
* a more secure Bitcoin network by adding 400 MH/s
* as much anonymity as is currently possible (as far as I have evaluated) with a professional mining contract
* nearly no work on your side required. You only need to: fund your GLBSE account, buy shares and in 3 months collect the dividend
* the ability to speculate on shares. If all shares sell and there is still demand, share prices might go up. This is unique to this mining contract compared to others, as far as I see it.


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE
Post by: demonblack on June 07, 2011, 08:53:21 PM
Bought. :D
So, i invested 1.25btc.
Let's see what i get...


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE
Post by: obekt on June 08, 2011, 07:03:21 PM
I am now owner of 110 shares  ;D


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE
Post by: Nefario on June 08, 2011, 07:10:12 PM
Yes, that would be a great solution (along with my suggested datetime tag)

"bmc.py paypershare [SHARENAME] [x BTC] [DATETIME in UTC]"

Would be the greatest thing to have! :)

[Edit: Bonus points if shareholders get some kind of notification, that a dividend payout is scheduled]

I'll get on this, will be Friday before it's ready though.

Sorry this is going to be put back for a while, because it uses timing. I don't know when.


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE
Post by: CentiMine on June 10, 2011, 09:56:09 AM
Yeah, it works with "cancelling sell orders, paying out, reselling" anyways for the current time and would be more of a "convenience" functionality.

Great job on the web interface by the way, now we just need tutorials how to create (easily, preferrably with GUI programs) some valid keys for accounts and it will fly! :)


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE
Post by: Nefario on June 10, 2011, 03:11:19 PM
I've added sub tickers, enjoy.

http://bit.ly/jMAw86


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE
Post by: CentiMine on June 12, 2011, 05:59:48 PM
Ok, I'm having a problem right now paying out the dividend for this week...

I issued the command "python bmc.py CM400 7305150", entered my passphrase and got a very fast scrolling HTML error page.

Also after checking via the balance function, if something was booked, I get the following message:
"Problem: Your account doesn't balance, you may have deposited funds please wait
a few minutes. Do not re-use old addresses when sending funds,for each deposit y
ou should get a new address, if you have sent funds to an old bitcoin address it
 must be manually added to your account. Please email the adiministrator[sic!], doctor
.nefario@gmail.com to inform him."

I'll send a mail, but maybe Nefario is still up and reads this...


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE
Post by: josell on June 13, 2011, 02:54:30 AM
I don't understand: I have buy a lot of shares, they appear ok, but my balance still the same. Why? I don''t Understand; sorry I'm new on markets.


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE
Post by: Nefario on June 13, 2011, 08:38:23 AM
Ive fixed the dividend bug and cleaned up the mess, so everything (paying dividends) should work fine.

Nefario.


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE
Post by: CentiMine on June 13, 2011, 02:47:15 PM
...it did!

Thanks for the fast response, shares are up for sale again. :)


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE
Post by: brendio on June 14, 2011, 03:27:13 AM
I have not yet got around to testing out the stock exchange, but I'm slightly interested in this offer as a proof of concept. One question though.

As I understand, you have issued the 40000 shares at 1 bitcent each and still having the excess remaining for sale until all are sold. However, since the value of the shares will diminish with time as income is paid out and remain worthless in the end, the shares are actually more expensive now than at the start (i.e. if I buy now, I will get a couple of weeks less than 3 months of mining). Is this understanding correct?

Would you consider dropping your ask price on the remaining shares each time a dividend is paid?


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE
Post by: CentiMine on June 14, 2011, 01:38:20 PM
You only loose 6 days of mining worth if you buy now until friday, when the next 2 days of mining from last weekend will be paid out.

To encourage people buying early, instead of waiting until the last day and then buying all shares - or not, then I did all this work for nothing - I came up with this concept to reward trust in me and early investment without harming latecomers too much.

Concerning your question: No, I won't lower the price per share until all shares are sold. After the shares are all sold, I still hope that people trade shares and some real speculation, trading etc. comes out (currently nearly all assets listed on GLBSE are still in the "selling initial shares" phase). Unfortunately it seems like shares sell slower than expected, partially maybe because GLBSE is not the easiest thing to use - but this is getting better and better (check out the web client and - brand new - the awesome charts at http://charts.glbse.com/markets/CM400.html!).

Maybe I was a few weeks/months too early to have a rock solid product, but in the end I still enjoy the experience of updating, communicating, paying out dividends and finding bugs.


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE (CM400)
Post by: josell on June 14, 2011, 06:48:44 PM
I bought 170 shares on CM400 yesterday.

The pay will be in my balance, or I have to sell your shares to harvest my investing?

The minor payouts still being given every friday?

Sorry for my english ;-)


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE (CM400)
Post by: josell on June 15, 2011, 04:46:34 PM
I had the same error of Centimine when using balance command:

Problem: Your account doesn't balance, you may have deposited funds please wait a few minutes. Do not re-use old addresses when sending funds,for each deposit you should get a new address, if you have sent funds to an old bitcoin address it must be manually added to your account. Please email the adiministrator, doctor.nefario@gmail.com to inform him.

I dont understand; have I to wait? how many time?


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE (CM400)
Post by: Nefario on June 16, 2011, 01:54:15 AM
I had the same error of Centimine when using balance command:

Problem: Your account doesn't balance, you may have deposited funds please wait a few minutes. Do not re-use old addresses when sending funds,for each deposit you should get a new address, if you have sent funds to an old bitcoin address it must be manually added to your account. Please email the adiministrator, doctor.nefario@gmail.com to inform him.

I dont understand; have I to wait? how many time?

That's sorted now, you'd used an old address.


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE (CM400)
Post by: CentiMine on June 16, 2011, 01:58:00 AM
I bought 170 shares on CM400 yesterday.

The pay will be in my balance, or I have to sell your shares to harvest my investing?

The minor payouts still being given every friday?

Sorry for my english ;-)
Every Friday that you keep these shares, you will get 170/40000 of the income of the last weekend. In ~2 months, you will get the income of the remaining days (if you keep your shares until then) + a bonus of 250 BTC (broken down to each share of course) also via the pay function of GLBSE. It shows up in your balance automatically.

In reality, each share costs less than 0.5 Bitcents: I was overpriced in the beginning and decided to handle it like this (adding the rebate to the big payout), to not devalue the shares of early adopters. See http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=8642.msg137033#msg137033 for a more lengthy explanation.

Edit:
Looking at the trade history on http://charts.glbse.com/markets/CM400_trades.html, I'm really happy by the way that some people seem to buy just 1 single share and some others buying them at the dozen or more! I strongly believe that 1 BTC at once is already quite a hurdle to do an investment - and it's likely to even grow in the future!
Thanks to everyone who bought shares so far, be it a single one or a few hundred at once.


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE (CM400)
Post by: josell on June 16, 2011, 04:30:43 AM
I bought 170 shares on CM400 yesterday.

The pay will be in my balance, or I have to sell your shares to harvest my investing?

The minor payouts still being given every friday?

Sorry for my english ;-)
Every Friday that you keep these shares, you will get 170/40000 of the income of the last weekend. In ~2 months, you will get the income of the remaining days (if you keep your shares until then) + a bonus of 250 BTC (broken down to each share of course) also via the pay function of GLBSE. It shows up in your balance automatically.

In reality, each share costs less than 0.5 Bitcents: I was overpriced in the beginning and decided to handle it like this (adding the rebate to the big payout), to not devalue the shares of early adopters. See http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=8642.msg137033#msg137033 for a more lengthy explanation.

Thank you a lot! I'll buy a lot more as im not using my mined bitcoin.


That's sorted now, you'd used an old address.

Thank you again!


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE (CM400)
Post by: XIU on June 16, 2011, 01:51:24 PM
Already got 361 shares, can't wait for the payment tomorrow, profit is nice :)


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE (CM400)
Post by: CentiMine on June 17, 2011, 05:53:48 PM
Interestingly I can NOT sell my shares now (38165 are still in my folio and show up there) after I stopped trading.

python bmc.py sell 38165 CM400 1000000
00
Enter passphrase:
Problem: You do not have enough unreserved assets to make this order, please can
cel another order to allow

I have 0 orders open and selling 1 share less does not help too... Nefario?! I might have spotted a bug...

Selling 10000 shares worked though, if someone wants to buy more shares right now, please just get in contact with me in the meantime.


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE (CM400)
Post by: Nefario on June 17, 2011, 11:57:38 PM
Interestingly I can NOT sell my shares now (38165 are still in my folio and show up there) after I stopped trading.

python bmc.py sell 38165 CM400 1000000
00
Enter passphrase:
Problem: You do not have enough unreserved assets to make this order, please can
cel another order to allow

I have 0 orders open and selling 1 share less does not help too... Nefario?! I might have spotted a bug...

Selling 10000 shares worked though, if someone wants to buy more shares right now, please just get in contact with me in the meantime.

Damn, I won't be able to do anything about that until Monday.


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE (CM400)
Post by: Nefario on June 19, 2011, 11:17:06 AM
Sorry for the late update.
I checked this out yesteryday(sent you a pm), everything seems to be working fine as you had placed a large sell for shares.

If there are anymore issues relating to this please let me know.

Nefario.


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE (CM400)
Post by: CentiMine on June 19, 2011, 02:09:53 PM
Damn, while testing out how many shares i can now really sell at once, I accidentially removed one 0 at the end of one sell order and 9 "low bid lurkers" got lucky... :-\

Ah well, I guess I can easily cover that out of my own pocket anyways - gratulations for the bargain deal guys, whoever you are! ;)

I still am not able to put up the whole lot in one piece for sale, but most of them should be available now and the remaining ~1000 shares will also be as soon as I/Nefario have found out what's going on here.


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE (CM400)
Post by: josell on June 24, 2011, 05:17:31 PM
Today is payment, right? When?


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE (CM400)
Post by: CentiMine on June 25, 2011, 01:13:14 AM
Went through ~7 hours ago or so.

I'll try to get this thread moved to the correct section (again...), looks like now it should be in "Services".


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE (CM400)
Post by: wildboy211 on June 25, 2011, 02:36:48 AM
I'm proud to announce the start of CentiMine, the mini-mining contract.

What is it all about?
In a nutshell, you can buy 1 share at the price of 1 bitcent of 40,000 shares of a 3 months 400MH/s contract at bitcoinrigs.com.

This also explains the name of this business - even with the free 5 Bitcents from the faucet, you can start investing in a mining contract and buy 5 shares.

The asset name on GLBSE for this contract is "CM400" - short for "CentiMine 400 MH/s".
You can get an overview over all assets on GLBSE at http://dev.glbse.com/cgi-bin/list

How will the contract be fulfilled?
There will be 2 types of payouts, 1 big one at the end of the contract to keep rounding issues low and a weekly smaller payout.
The smaller payout will be the BTC generated on the previous Saturday and Sunday and be paid out on friday night to enable you to enjoy a bit-beer or so. This is also to reward people jumping on and buying shares early, as opposed to getting in late to get the big share (5/7th of the total income).

Tracking will be done at the moment manually by me via a google docs spreadsheet (so it is also nice to visualize via charts etc.), feel free to access it at:
https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=tPbfdCrHmt_YDG3wo1c_92A&authkey=CN3s45YH

As this is done via GLBSE and everything is done/paid (on your side) in BTC, this is also a completely anonymous way to obtain a mining contract. You do not have to give your address or any other information to any mining contractor and I too cannot track who buys and trades these shares. Should this first try be a success, I might also offer additional contracts depending on demand in the future.

I plan to hand out 100% of the shares in this contract, in 2 waves:
Wave 1: This week as soon as the first payment of the contract arrived, limited to 5,000 shares to be able to check if everything works out on GLBSE
Wave 2: If everything works as expected, the rest of the shares until latest in one week from now: Tuesday 24th of May 2011.

As an "early bird bonus" (and to test the payout system on GLBSE) I will hand out 5 of my own bitcoins on Friday, 20th of May 2011 to the holder(s) of these 5,000 shares. [cancelled, as the "shipping" time of the contract took longer than expected - first coins came in on Saturday, 21st of May 2011]

Should there be any questions, or should you need assistance with GLBSE (command line clients are not for everyone, I know), feel free to ask.

Links:
GLBSE: http://glbse.com/
GLBSE client installation instructions (Windows): https://gitorious.org/black-market/pages/Windows
GLBSE how-to (how to use the client): https://gitorious.org/black-market/pages/Tutorial
GLBSE vmware appliance: http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=7912.0

GLBSE asset list: http://dev.glbse.com/cgi-bin/list
Link to this asset (CM400): http://dev.glbse.com/cgi-bin/asset?id=a3418fd35b48dbb9d366018537917dbc6481878fbfec8486751f1c411f210d7d.xml

Payouts so far:
Date|BTC|Comment
Fri. May 27th|0.0|Payout function on GLBSE not yet tested
Fri. June 3rd|5.16|3.3 from 1 week before + 1.86 from this week
Mon. June 13th|1.86|Bug in payout code fixed by nefario
Fri. June 17th|1.42|-
Fri. June 24th|0.92|-

Upcoming payouts:
Date|BTC|Comment
Fri. July 1st|???|-

Please note that payouts will be split amongst all 40000 shares, not just the shares sold.

Is it too late to get into this? If not, how do i get started?


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE (CM400)
Post by: CentiMine on June 25, 2011, 08:35:53 PM
No, it is not too late - you can still buy quite a few shares on GLBSE.

As a start I'd recommend you to create an account on GLBSE and transfer some funds on it. There is a commandline client and a new web interface available for this.
After having a confirmed balance, you can buy shares at 1 Bitcent each (sometimes cheaper, if some of the current shareholders decide to sell for less than the original price).


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE (CM400)
Post by: Nefario on June 30, 2011, 03:56:16 AM
A update for the web client is coming later today.


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE (CM400)
Post by: josell on July 25, 2011, 01:34:40 AM
When will be the next "big" payount?


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE (CM400)
Post by: Nefario on July 25, 2011, 02:34:43 AM
On a related note, the web client now shows what assets dividend payments are from.

Nefario.


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE (CM400)
Post by: Bitcoin Swami on August 16, 2011, 08:00:12 AM
Is this operation still goin on?


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE (CM400)
Post by: Nefario on August 16, 2011, 09:00:57 AM
Well the owner has just added their information to http://companies.herokuapp.com  http://companies.herokuapp.com/company/14


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE (CM400)
Post by: brendio on August 22, 2011, 12:20:35 AM
I can't believe people are still buying this for 1 bitcent when the mining contract is about to/has already expired. Do any holders want to lend me some some stock for a short? I'll pay 1% interest per month plus dividends on them.


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE (CM400)
Post by: Ben Walsh (beamer) on August 22, 2011, 09:49:57 AM
I thought the same and wondered if I had missed something.

Maybe Centimine is buying back?

I can't believe people are still buying this for 1 bitcent when the mining contract is about to/has already expired. Do any holders want to lend me some some stock for a short? I'll pay 1% interest per month plus dividends on them.


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE (CM400)
Post by: CentiMine on August 25, 2011, 12:19:18 PM
No, you'll all be scammed, muhahahahahaha!  8)

Just kidding, yes, tomorrow I'll wrap the whole thing up and pay out the remaining 281.06 + 1.32 = 282.38 BTC to the shareholders.
If you want a part of this dividend, you better hurry and BUY BUY BUY.


Hopefully everything works out as planned, as Nefario seems to re-do big parts of GLBSE currently, but I'm confident that any issues can be resolved as quickly as in the past.


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE (CM400)
Post by: Nefario on August 25, 2011, 02:57:05 PM
No, you'll all be scammed, muhahahahahaha!  8)

Just kidding, yes, tomorrow I'll wrap the whole thing up and pay out the remaining 281.06 + 1.32 = 282.38 BTC to the shareholders.
If you want a part of this dividend, you better hurry and BUY BUY BUY.


Hopefully everything works out as planned, as Nefario seems to re-do big parts of GLBSE currently, but I'm confident that any issues can be resolved as quickly as in the past.

There won't be any issues, I've done enough testing with this basy that I can get FDA approval(fingers crossed), but don't worry as centimine said any issues and I'll be all over it.

On a slightly related note, I could like to thank centimine for the work that was put into this share and for being one of the early adopters of the exchange, I think that at the time it was a bold step to take.

Nefario


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE (CM400) - Final payout!
Post by: shakaru on August 26, 2011, 01:03:21 AM
well, lets see what happens when I buy 500 shares then. :)


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE (CM400) - Final payout!
Post by: Bitcoin Swami on August 26, 2011, 06:34:03 PM
Is centimine over after this or are you starting again? If I bought shares and its over who would I sell them to after I get the dividend?  ??? ???


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE (CM400) - Final payout!
Post by: Nefario on August 26, 2011, 08:04:01 PM
Is centimine over after this or are you starting again? If I bought shares and its over who would I sell them to after I get the dividend?  ??? ???

Anyone who wants to buy them, but I couldn't imagine anyone dumb enough to do that since they would be worthless. And I think the ability to read, write, user computers, the internet, and to have even heard about what bitcoin is, never mind a stock market that trades only using bitcoin eliminates that possibility.

Sorry, I don't mean to be snarky but I've just discovered the Archer TV series and have watched an episode, its so good.


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE (CM400) - Final payout!
Post by: Bitcoin Swami on August 26, 2011, 09:05:20 PM
Is centimine over after this or are you starting again? If I bought shares and its over who would I sell them to after I get the dividend?  ??? ???

Anyone who wants to buy them, but I couldn't imagine anyone dumb enough to do that since they would be worthless. And I think the ability to read, write, user computers, the internet, and to have even heard about what bitcoin is, never mind a stock market that trades only using bitcoin eliminates that possibility.

Sorry, I don't mean to be snarky but I've just discovered the Archer TV series and have watched an episode, its so good.

thanks thats what I thought. 


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE (CM400) - Final payout!
Post by: shakaru on August 26, 2011, 09:55:36 PM
so did the dividend payout yet? Thats the big question.


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE (CM400) - Final payout!
Post by: brendio on August 28, 2011, 11:43:48 AM
... I couldn't imagine anyone dumb enough to do that since they would be worthless...
I don't know about that. I see some for sale now for 0.01 bitcents and I'm prepared to bet a bitcent that someone will come along an buy them, seeing they are a bargain after the share price falling 99%.


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE (CM400) - Final payout!
Post by: brendio on August 28, 2011, 12:02:09 PM
... I couldn't imagine anyone dumb enough to do that since they would be worthless...
I don't know about that. I see some for sale now for 0.01 bitcents and I'm prepared to bet a bitcent that someone will come along an buy them, seeing they are a bargain after the share price falling 99%.
In fact, I see I am now the owner of 3 shares, after one of my outstanding orders in the orderbook got filled after the dividend was paid out.

Nefario, can an asset holder issue a command to clear all orders before an event that materially effects the value of an asset (like what happens on real stock exchanges)?


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE (CM400) - Final payout!
Post by: Nefario on August 28, 2011, 01:43:19 PM
... I couldn't imagine anyone dumb enough to do that since they would be worthless...
I don't know about that. I see some for sale now for 0.01 bitcents and I'm prepared to bet a bitcent that someone will come along an buy them, seeing they are a bargain after the share price falling 99%.
In fact, I see I am now the owner of 3 shares, after one of my outstanding orders in the orderbook got filled after the dividend was paid out.

Nefario, can an asset holder issue a command to clear all orders before an event that materially effects the value of an asset (like what happens on real stock exchanges)?

I could probably add this functionality.

The problem is not with adding it to the server, the difficulty is changing the user interface for the web client or the python client libraries.


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE (CM400) - Final payout!
Post by: CentiMine on August 29, 2011, 11:55:31 AM
Is centimine over after this or are you starting again? If I bought shares and its over who would I sell them to after I get the dividend?  ??? ???
I could start it again with a new contract, but right now I don't have the time nor the motivation. This contract here is over, as it was stated from the beginning on in the contract itself.

After all ~10% of the IPO was sold (I still have 36102 out of 40k shares) but I'm unsure what the reason for this is/was and if this is good or bad. The price surely wasn't as attractive as it could have been, GLBSE was in the beginning also only accessible via command line tools (now there's a great webtool, check it out!) and I also did not really advertise a lot (if at all).

At least I can say that I tried to be as transparent as possible, when taking a look at other GLBSE "companies" I'm sure there's a little bit of my influence there, as many at least provide a balance sheet now for example.

As your shares are now worthless, they only have collectible value.
I'd really love to just be able to destroy them, but that's up to Nefario I think - and maybe someone even wants to keep them for whatever reason?

Maybe I'll set up some other things (creating a fund for bot trading or GLBSE trading would be very interesting!) in the future or some options where people can sell their mining power (mine a mining share and receive a fixed amount of BTC on GLBSE for this, similar to PPS - but with "laundered" Bitcoins directly on GLBSE using them as payment processor).

So long, and thanks for all the fish!


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE (CM400) - Final payout!
Post by: brendio on August 29, 2011, 01:25:20 PM
I think the problem was that if anyone did the maths, they could see from the start that the contract would be unprofitable. I know I was very excited about this share in the beginning until I did some calculations about the expected payout. Maybe you were unlucky with your timing coinciding near the spike in the BTC price after you had "cashed out" your bitcoin to buy the contract with the provider. Plus, the large increase in difficulty certainly didn't help your cause.

Even in USD, I think the contract would have been unprofitable. I'm not sure what you paid for the contract. $840 was mentioned by one poster earlier in the thread. The total generation for the 3 months according to your spreadsheet was 44.42 BTC. The 30 day VWAP for bitcoin is around US$10 (not sure if the 90 d value would be much higher), so if you sold them as you earned them, you would have made about $444, which is a loss of about $400. In contrast, $840 on May 18 could have bought 118 BTC at $7.19 (http://bitcoincharts.com/t/trades.csv?symbol=mtgoxUSD&start=1305676800&end=1305676900), which would now be worth $1062 at an exchange rate of $9/BTC.

That said, it was good to watch a pioneer in action while GLBSE was still forming and future traders and promoters can learn some valuable lessons from this experience.

Enjoy a break! But you have built up some trust and gained some experience that I think you could capitalise on in a future venture, should you choose to do so, so I do hope you'll be back some time.


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE (CM400) - Final payout!
Post by: CentiMine on August 29, 2011, 02:01:54 PM
I agree, I also did not make a profit compared to buying bitcoins directly at that time (which would have returned ~100 BTC instead of 44.42 - my final gain is a bit higher due to the fact that shares were also not paid the full amount they were sold for as you can calculate)

Yes, the whole thing was rather designed to test out GLBSE, allow people to calculate their risks and do a proper assessment of their investments and also to allow them to easily get in. The 1 BTC/share that others asked for virtually NOTHING guaranteed or calculable was always something that I disliked.

I myself yould probably have come to the same conclusion as you (not profitable) - maybe not right from the beginning on , but after the first few unfortunate difficulty increases.

I however also wanted to make sure that my shareholders will NOT loose a big part of their investment, even after it looked quite clear to me, that this is going to end up in a loss - IMHO it's ok if you invest a few bucks in something risky to also loose some of them - it would however not have been fair of me to sell the shares at 1 Bitcent but not offer this 250 BTC refund because then I would have ended up WAY ahead of everyone else and nearly doubled my outcome just by selling these 10% of the IPO. I could have done more advertisement in hindsight though...

I already have a few ideas how to use GLBSE as a pool payment processor and this is also something that would require far less weekly attention + maintenance (don't underestimate this!), maybe you'll hear from me in the future and I'll really claim my ticker symbol (when the share was issued, you couldn't issue subtickers).


Title: Re: [CentiMine] Anonymous mini-mining contracts on GLBSE (CM400) - Final payout!
Post by: Nefario on August 29, 2011, 02:59:24 PM
I already have a few ideas how to use GLBSE as a pool payment processor and this is also something that would require far less weekly attention + maintenance (don't underestimate this!), maybe you'll hear from me in the future and I'll really claim my ticker symbol (when the share was issued, you couldn't issue subtickers).

Have a look at glibse, the python glbse client library, it's quite easy to use, we now have direct account to account transfers for bitcoin(again with glibse not webclient ATM), you'd certainly be able to use it as a pool payment service.