Title: Open Source Project: Build your own secure Digital wallet for secure rx / tx Post by: PocketCoin on June 11, 2012, 07:31:41 PM Hello everyone, I have been a long time lurker of Bitcoin and I have a strong background in electronics.
I have been watching all the hype about these Digital, carry with you where ever you go Bitcoin wallets. I understand that they are all "Lite Clients" which could potentially require you to trust one node or hopefully with some of these Lite clients they do multiple node verification/confidence checking. I started this thread originally in the newbies section but I think this project could receive more attention in this category. So my goal is this... Create a device that can has the following specs. 1] Opensource Software We developers should be able to audit the code and alert the community that it is safe to use. 2] Opensource (as possible) hardware The products used in the open source device should be available on most electronic project websites and at most physical retail stores so anyone can purchase these products with out spending too much money. Such as RadioShack, Sparkfun.com, SeedDuino.com etc... 3] Processing power specs Should have enough processing power to be self reliant. This could mean 1 of 2 things(or both)... --1 The device should run its own Bitcoin block chain on a 5gb sdcard and the block chain can be updated through some means of uploading(wifi, bluetooth, USB cable, SDcard it self is upgraded) --2 The device should have the ability to run a Bitcoin Lite app in the event bandwidth isn't available to update the main block chain There are tradeoffs with both options. so we should pick one or both. This project isn't mine -- It is all of ours. we all have a say in it but the ultimate decision is left in those who build their own device or sell it. I don't want to make any money in this project, I just want a solution for digital wallets we can carry with us that still holds the "Safety of the Bitcoin dream" an alternative to "Greedy Corporates being recklessly careless with our hard earned money so they can make a quick profit off our tangible dreams" If you are not interested in a "carry your own digital wallet device" Do not respond to this thread -- This is not for you. Everyone should be encouraged to ignore "whats the point of this if i have a cellphone that can send money" replies as I guarantee the first reply will be that almost exactly in my quote. Thanks everyone! Lets build an open source device together. Title: Re: Open Source Project: Build your own secure Digital wallet for secure rx / tx Post by: PocketCoin on June 11, 2012, 07:36:17 PM Possible Hardware Suggestions(Still updating specs stats):
Arduino ( http://www.arduino.cc/playground/Learning/ArduinoSpecs) 8-Bit Netduino (32-bit http://www.netduino.com/netduinoplus/specs.htm) RAM: 28 KB Speed: 48MHz, ARM7 Code Storage: 64 KB Price: $59.95 ChipKit (32-bit http://www.digilentinc.com/Products/Catalog.cfm?NavPath=2,892&Cat=18) 80 Mhz 32-bit MIPS 128K Flash, 16K SRAM BeagleBone (32-bit http://beagleboard.org/bone) 2gb coldstorage(after default linux installed) Yubikey w\ Attached Screen (website: http://www.yubico.com/yubikey) Pros An extra part of the puzzle is required to make a signed transaction (This could add to the security) Cons Users are required to carry a device that can send signed transactions.(This is a con becuase most people already carry smart phones and a physical wallet with them -- carrying to more things is a hassle) More actions are involved Title: Re: Open Source Project: Build your own secure Digital wallet for secure rx / tx Post by: NothinG on June 11, 2012, 07:45:05 PM What about a screen and maybe a USB 2.0 for Yubikey?
Title: Re: Open Source Project: Build your own secure Digital wallet for secure rx / tx Post by: PocketCoin on June 11, 2012, 07:47:53 PM What about a screen and maybe a USB 2.0 for Yubikey? That sounds like an interesting idea. I'll add that to the spec list- I wish I knew more about Yubikey other then "I first heard of Yubikey from MtGox" :P I'm guessing we'd have to make a deal with them? or do they do custom orders i wonder. Title: Re: Open Source Project: Build your own secure Digital wallet for secure rx / tx Post by: rjk on June 11, 2012, 07:51:45 PM What about a screen and maybe a USB 2.0 for Yubikey? That sounds like an interesting idea. I'll add that to the spec list- I wish I knew more about Yubikey other then "I first heard of Yubikey from MtGox" :P I'm guessing we'd have to make a deal with them? or do they do custom orders i wonder. However, it is free to implement and there are code samples for many languages. The validation can be done with your own server, or with the cloud service that they provide for free. It does need a net connection for validation unless you use it in Fixed Password mode, or unless you use it in Challenge-response mode. Title: Re: Open Source Project: Build your own secure Digital wallet for secure rx / tx Post by: NothinG on June 11, 2012, 08:03:32 PM What about a screen and maybe a USB 2.0 for Yubikey? That sounds like an interesting idea. I'll add that to the spec list- I wish I knew more about Yubikey other then "I first heard of Yubikey from MtGox" :P I'm guessing we'd have to make a deal with them? or do they do custom orders i wonder. However, it is free to implement and there are code samples for many languages. The validation can be done with your own server, or with the cloud service that they provide for free. It does need a net connection for validation unless you use it in Fixed Password mode, or unless you use it in Challenge-response mode. Title: Re: Open Source Project: Build your own secure Digital wallet for secure rx / tx Post by: PocketCoin on June 11, 2012, 08:08:18 PM So I'm confused, you insert yubikey into your "device"/"computer" then a app pops up or the website just "somehow" knows you are saying "I want to do this?"
Title: Re: Open Source Project: Build your own secure Digital wallet for secure rx / tx Post by: NothinG on June 11, 2012, 08:10:05 PM So I'm confused, you insert yubikey into your "device"/"computer" then a app pops up or the website just "somehow" knows you are saying "I want to do this?" It works as if you plug in a keyboard to your computer (via usb) and hit all the required keys to login.There is no special client-side software required for it to work, just need to have the right server-side software. Title: Re: Open Source Project: Build your own secure Digital wallet for secure rx / tx Post by: PocketCoin on June 11, 2012, 08:15:23 PM So I'm confused, you insert yubikey into your "device"/"computer" then a app pops up or the website just "somehow" knows you are saying "I want to do this?" It works as if you plug in a keyboard to your computer (via usb) and hit all the required keys to login.There is no special client-side software required for it to work, just need to have the right server-side software. I trust no device(to a point) that includes a computer keyboard(i trust the keyboard more then the computer). Are these keys you are hit securely located on the Yubikey device it self? Title: Re: Open Source Project: Build your own secure Digital wallet for secure rx / tx Post by: PocketCoin on June 11, 2012, 08:21:10 PM or am i confused on its usage? is it more like the Yubikey IS your password?
Title: Re: Open Source Project: Build your own secure Digital wallet for secure rx / tx Post by: rjk on June 11, 2012, 08:23:51 PM or am i confused on its usage? is it more like the Yubikey IS your password? Read this: http://www.yubico.com/technical-descriptionIt generates OTPs (One Time Passwords) and usually is combined with a normal password. It has a USB thumbdrive form factor, and only one button which is just a touch pad not an actual button. Title: Re: Open Source Project: Build your own secure Digital wallet for secure rx / tx Post by: NothinG on June 11, 2012, 08:24:56 PM Looks like they've got a smaller Yubikey that might just be perfect for this device.
http://www.yubico.com/yubikey-nano Might be something to integrate into http://pipboy3000.com/ (in development). Title: Re: Open Source Project: Build your own secure Digital wallet for secure rx / tx Post by: PocketCoin on June 11, 2012, 10:04:05 PM or am i confused on its usage? is it more like the Yubikey IS your password? Read this: http://www.yubico.com/technical-descriptionIt generates OTPs (One Time Passwords) and usually is combined with a normal password. It has a USB thumbdrive form factor, and only one button which is just a touch pad not an actual button. So someones experience with say a service like mtgox and a yubikey would be like the following... *Login to mtgox with username and password on the computer like usual. *Attempt to withdraw bitcoins from mtgox *Mtgox says "there is no yubikey connected to the cloud. *customer then inserts yubi key into computer(which then yubikey attempt to the cloud server by some means of http,tcp or udp?) *mtgox notices the yubikey is connected and now allow withdraws until yubikey is disconected crom the cloud does that sound about right? Title: Re: Open Source Project: Build your own secure Digital wallet for secure rx / tx Post by: TangibleCryptography on June 11, 2012, 10:19:49 PM or am i confused on its usage? is it more like the Yubikey IS your password? Read this: http://www.yubico.com/technical-descriptionIt generates OTPs (One Time Passwords) and usually is combined with a normal password. It has a USB thumbdrive form factor, and only one button which is just a touch pad not an actual button. So someones experience with say a service like mtgox and a yubikey would be like the following... *Login to mtgox with username and password on the computer like usual. *Attempt to withdraw bitcoins from mtgox *Mtgox says "there is no yubikey connected to the cloud. *customer then inserts yubi key into computer(which then yubikey attempt to the cloud server by some means of http,tcp or udp?) *mtgox notices the yubikey is connected and now allow withdraws until yubikey is disconected crom the cloud does that sound about right? No. That would be very insecure. Hacker could simply wait for you to connect your key and steal all funds. Try re-reading the link on OTP again (and again). It is one time handshake between the key and a server. Still not sure how useful yubikey is for what you are looking to build. Title: Re: Open Source Project: Build your own secure Digital wallet for secure rx / tx Post by: PocketCoin on June 12, 2012, 12:05:05 AM Still not sure how useful yubikey is for what you are looking to build. That's exactly what I'm trying to figure out so I ask stupid questions(I guess that’s not the best way to go about getting information).I think to stay in line with the original goal the device we are aiming for should stay way from any one point of failure (relying on yubi key). and I am just saying that because my confidence with producing source code to be secure with the yubikeys authentication methods is low. Title: Re: Open Source Project: Build your own secure Digital wallet for secure rx / tx Post by: rjk on June 12, 2012, 12:25:53 AM Yeah I was just providing information about it for you to research because it was brought up. I don't think it would fit in well in this application either.
Title: Re: Open Source Project: Build your own secure Digital wallet for secure rx / tx Post by: NothinG on June 12, 2012, 12:30:32 AM Yeah I was just providing information about it for you to research because it was brought up. I don't think it would fit in well in this application either. Well if the wallet got stolen, then you'd have to use the Yubikey to unlock it to send coins.Like if you steal an ATM machine, good luck getting it open without ruining the money. Title: Re: Open Source Project: Build your own secure Digital wallet for secure rx / tx Post by: rjk on June 12, 2012, 12:33:30 AM Yeah I was just providing information about it for you to research because it was brought up. I don't think it would fit in well in this application either. Well if the wallet got stolen, then you'd have to use the Yubikey to unlock it to send coins.Like if you steal an ATM machine, good luck getting it open without ruining the money. Title: Re: Open Source Project: Build your own secure Digital wallet for secure rx / tx Post by: PocketCoin on June 12, 2012, 07:02:14 PM So here are some screen suggestions - please do post some that you know of that are not listed and please post pros and cons about your suggestions (and mine too!).
http://www.sparkfun.com/products/709 Basic 16x2 Character LCD - White on Black 5V http://dlnmh9ip6v2uc.cloudfront.net/images/products/16x2-Black-2_i_ma.jpg Pros: A shortage of simple LCDs like this is unlikely Pros: price is good: $15; Pros: Easy on the eyes. Cons: Not a lot of data can be displayed at once Cons: a lot of button pressing for menus Personal Preferences to keep in mind: Not everyone finds a two colour scheme "easy on the eyes" http://www.sparkfun.com/products/8683 http://s17.postimage.org/pdat4hkel/mod_nokia6610_hello.jpg Pros: Color screen Pros: Not "cheap" but not expensive either only $34.95 Cons: Skwinting may be involved with a small screen of this size (maybe two could be paired to make a bigger wide screen?) http://www.adafruit.com/products/358 http://www.adafruit.com/images/medium/18tftbob_MED.jpg Pros: Color Screen Pros: $24.95 Cons: I don't know how to write a driver this LCD http://www.adafruit.com/products/797 http://www.adafruit.com/images/medium/ID797_MED.jpg Pros: Color Screen Pros: $29.95 Cons: I don't know how to write a driver this LCD http://www.adafruit.com/products/782 http://www.adafruit.com/images/medium/ID782_MED.jpg http://www.adafruit.com/images/medium/ID782green_MED.jpg http://www.adafruit.com/images/medium/ID782yellow_MED.jpg Pros: Changes color easily with PWM (Which could be used to express the successfulness of the action the user is attempting like "red" on error, "green" on success, "yellow" on Doing something... and "blue" on awaiting for the user to type input Pros: $23.95 Pros: Uses a simple serial line for quick and simple development. Cons: Some people don't like the a monochromatic colors(even if their are more backlighting) Cons: Some people donn't like two line screen. http://www.adafruit.com/products/250 http://www.adafruit.com/images/medium/st7565pos_MED.jpg http://www.adafruit.com/images/medium/st7565pospurple_MED.jpg http://www.adafruit.com/images/medium/st7565posblue_MED.jpg Pros: cheap for how many characters you can fit on it: $17.95 Pros: Can hold many characters Pros: Uses serial line for quick and simple development Pros:Changes colour easily with PWM (Which could be used to express the successfulness of the action the user is attempting like "red" on error, "green" on success, "yellow" on Doing something... and "blue" on awaiting for the user to type input Cons: some people dont like the monochormatic colors Possible Con: If the device choose is a 5v communication device you will need a 3.3v logic level converter. If this screen is picked we should look for a 3.3v processor like an ARM chip or RockChip. Title: Re: Open Source Project: Build your own secure Digital wallet for secure rx / tx Post by: Xenland on June 12, 2012, 07:45:17 PM Looks like they've got a smaller Yubikey that might just be perfect for this device. http://www.yubico.com/yubikey-nano Might be something to integrate into http://pipboy3000.com/ (in development). Thanks NothingG, subscribing to this thread... Title: Re: Open Source Project: Build your own secure Digital wallet for secure rx / tx Post by: Xenland on June 12, 2012, 08:00:42 PM Apparently I was fired from ElletSys with out ever being notified as I was kicked from the ElletSys communication channel-- So now I have plenty of knowledge to contribute to the open source community.
I believe in the dream too PocketCoin! No more greedy corporates wasting our hard earned time and money!!! Title: Re: Open Source Project: Build your own secure Digital wallet for secure rx / tx Post by: rjk on June 12, 2012, 08:02:49 PM Apparently I was fired from ElletSys with out ever being notified as I was kicked from the ElletSys communication channel-- So now I have plenty of knowledge to contribute to the open source community. lol you were involved with that too?I believe in the dream too PocketCoin! No more greedy corporates wasting our hard earned time and money!!! Title: Re: Open Source Project: Build your own secure Digital wallet for secure rx / tx Post by: Xenland on June 12, 2012, 08:09:42 PM Apparently I was fired from ElletSys with out ever being notified as I was kicked from the ElletSys communication channel-- So now I have plenty of knowledge to contribute to the open source community. lol you were involved with that too?I believe in the dream too PocketCoin! No more greedy corporates wasting our hard earned time and money!!! It was a mess that's all I'm going to say. I'll be posting a video within the next day or so demonstrating a touch screen (powered by a beagle bone) sending and receiving bit coins which is research for my pipboy3000 project. Title: Re: Open Source Project: Build your own secure Digital wallet for secure rx / tx Post by: Xenland on June 13, 2012, 12:59:53 AM You know what would be interesting is if this device had GPS on it and when it was connected to the internet could ask the users smartphone if its within a 30 meter radius -- if its not it will send all funds to a preset fail safe bit coin address...That way someone would have to steal the device and it would have to be turned off before getting to far from the user other wise it will be set to "send bitcoins to address" mode next time it gets an internet connection.
Title: Re: Open Source Project: Build your own secure Digital wallet for secure rx / tx Post by: Jouke on June 18, 2012, 12:28:13 PM take a look at the programmable screens of 4D-systems as well.
Title: Re: Open Source Project: Build your own secure Digital wallet for secure rx / tx Post by: Xenland on June 19, 2012, 08:12:57 AM take a look at the programmable screens of 4D-systems as well. Oh yeah I played with those, they were a pain in the but to control from a microprocessor |