Bitcoin Forum

Read this article on how Greeks are trying to get money out of banks, and have no safe place to put it! In their home, they risk robberies. Transferring it to other places, takes high fees back and forth. Put it in a safety deposit box, and it's only slightly safer than being in one's account... plus all the safety deposit boxes are taken already.

OR you could use Bitcoin and keep it perfectly safe on a USB drive! How do we tell Greece to wake the hell up?

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/greek-banks-run-out-safe-deposit-boxes-eerie-calm-takes-over-country-24-hours-d-day (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/greek-banks-run-out-safe-deposit-boxes-eerie-calm-takes-over-country-24-hours-d-day)

Greece has amazingly few Internet users. Only 45% of people there use the Internet at all, and probably a much smaller percentage are skilled enough to use Bitcoin. I don't think Bitcoin can make significant inroads there.

Yes, just read about that its amazing stuff right now! tomorrow is the vote  :o

edit:  hmmmm FeedZeBirds PR campaign tomorrow? I'm sure twitter will be lit up with people....

if Kenyans can figure out how to use phones to send M-pesa via SMS, i'd think Greeks could learn how to use Bitcoin Spinner provided they have Androids.

perhaps a Bitcoin exchange that offered free Androids to set up an account above a certain number of euros?

Hm.. I have a few greek friends. I have mentioned bitcoin to them, but I'm not sure the message went trhough properly. I'm making another shot at it. :)

In my mind, Greek are lazy, maybe they will be boring to learn the brilliant new things in the bitcoin world. If Germany, this should sure be done. ;D

At Paymium, we did our best by releasing a greek translation of Paytunia for android last week..

http://www.e-ducat.fr/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/image-2-e1338918888493.png

Maybe we can raise enough to send an envoy to greece to setup an in person exchange :)

Great. Dont know how this could work but is the kind of ideas I would like to see more often here.

How bitcoins can actually help Greeks? dont tell me. Go there and tell them!

This is part of the Greece problem. It's not a random thing that they have huge debt, epic corrutped government and so few ppl using internet.

If I were greek (or Spanish, French or Belgian) I'd run - not walk - to protect my assets in Bitcoin and metals.

It's really incredible to consider how well suited bitcoin is for this. 

I'm european and i'm considering this. Buy Bitcoin and problem solved in a very quick, safe and efficient way.

And that's why I love you guys and promote your app all the time :)

Beg your pardon, but I think 4.9 million internet users in Greece ( http://www.internetworldstats.com/eu/gr.htm ) would supply some percentage of bitcoin users, if any of the guides on using it were localized in the language, in addition to the client. ( Upon checking, apparently Multibit supports greek - http://multibit.org/ )

Even if bitcoin 'captures' %0.01 of that population, that would yield about ~490 people. If anyone has the ability to translate the basic usage docs to greek, I think that could go a long way. Hell, if I could do it - I would be right now.

seriously?  how low in cost can a cheap Android smartphone go?

or at least get them to use Coinapult...

This problem highlights the biggest selling feature of bitcoin - you can control your own medium of exchange/store of value (like gold), but it's digital, and when appropriate measures are taken, more secure than physical assets.

move the decimal place one the right and you have captured 4900 new users. IMO if there was a very simple user friendly way for new users to create their own secure bitcoin flash drive's the whole thing would be a much easier sell. A video showing how to convert and protect your assets in a few easy steps would be very cool.   

you can run MultiBit from a USB stick.

thanks

1.  TraderTimm's reference is from 2010.  assuming a linear adoption for the masses btwn 2000-2010 you can increase that population # by at least 20%.  but it's probably higher than that assuming exponential increases of internet usage.

2.  49% of the population, if true, sounds pretty high, not low, to me.  that's still alot of ppl so to my mind it's more a matter of awareness than access.

3.  this is where a Bitcoincard.org solution would flourish.  those who do have internet connections could plug in their gateway transmitters and let the masses walk by with their cards.

4.  lets not confuse ease of use of today's clients with difficulties in understanding the Bitcoin protocols.  i think modern day clients are pretty easy.

Thanks Erik.
If only we could get it in the appstore  ;)
By the way, I have no idea how many android smartphones there are in Greece that could download the greek flavor..

bitcoin could be very well suited to Greece's geography. a bunch of small islands (economies) separated by the sea, but connected by the internet.

I was curious too, here's a link for some data:

https://www.getclicky.com/marketshare/gr/droid/

Back of the pizza-box calculation, (hey, I'll throw it out later..) says that based on my estimated population of 4.9 million, market share for Android would be approximately ~1,240,680 people. No idea what the average handset is, or the version they're running.

That's a nice userbase, even if you assume only %10 adoption.

Apparently people in Greece are not even searching for bitcoin in google...

http://www.google.com/trends/?q=bitcoin&ctab=0&geo=all&geor=all&date=ytd (try choosing 'Greece' in the region combox)

I don't think they want a solution to be honest. They're in a political war and quite content with that. and the rest of the world will follow suite until the government implements some sort of worldwide system. Bitcoin is about taking control of your own situation, just like America was. But sadly both are destined to die as the One World system gets setup, I feel Bitcoin and America will go away together, however the transformation will be advertised and put on people as an upgrade from both into an all inclusive "better than that" and the only people who don't want to change will be those with something called integrity.

That's why a sudden surge for a decentralized digital currency towards global ubiquity would be worse than it taking a generation.

William Godwin said, “Revolutions are the produce of passion, not of sober and tranquil reason.”  

Learning the why of Bitcoin takes much longer than learning the how.  But once that is learned, going back or towards anything else becomes much more repulsive.

That is nuts, if true.

Well, I'd like to see the facts you base this opinion on >.< There are lazy people....all around, in every nation! Generalization is not a good point of view. A worse point of view, is what mass media make us believe... (Apologies for the offtopic this far)

Indeed, internet use in Greece is less than 50% of the population :( And from those that use the internet, most of them restrain themselves in email, facebook etc.
I have told a lot of my friends about Bitcoin, some liked the idea some didn't. But the true problem IMO is that we (we=Greeks) don't trust others easily. And to start with Bitcoin you have to relay on trust.

Another thing to note, is that we can only make speculations about Bitcoin. 10 euros converted to bitcoins might be 100 euros in one year but it might as well be 1 euro. Converting most of the money to bitcoins, is not a good idea IMO.

Count me in for in person exchanges, which I think might work better (we have this face to face thing instead of via the net) than exchanges were you need to deposit money first and then buy coins.

I've already done some work localizing stuff but my time is limited (working both full time [5days a week] and part time [7 days a week]). I wish I could do more, because there are people who like new ideas, and might love Bitcoin, but unfortunately they're not that fluent in English (or don't speak at all). Currently I'm setting up a site in Greek only, just for this reason, but I bet I'll need at least one more month to bring it online with some basic information for starters.

You can't search for something you don't know it exists.

The only "protection" I see is against a huge devaluation of money if we're to leave the euro and go back to drachmas.

Don't ya think they'd use Greek letters to search?

I would think a typical Greek looking for "bitcoin" would search using Latin letters rather than searching for "μπίτκoϊν". Lived in Greece 2 years. To Greek ears the word "bitcoin" sounds very foreign and sounds like it should not be typed in Greek.

Good to hear...I couldn't phonetically translate or even figure out how to say bit...found this for kilobyte:κιλoμπάιτ...I presume the word is split like this... κιλoμ/πάιτ...bit I'm not not certain where the μ goes :)

Greek doesn't have a letter for B, the letter β always makes a V sound. So μπ is how they write B... Which is "MP" squeezed together. so it goes with byte.

Same with D. The letter Δ says "th" as in mother. To get D they say/write "NT".

Hence the joke in "My Big Fat Greek Wedding" about saying "bunt cake"(sp). The Greeks in the movie apparently can't say a hard "nt" because they always soften it out of habit to sound more like nd.

Just curious, what services/exchanges offer Greeks Euro to BTC? Maybe there is an access issue also, and a market opportunity?

it hard to get bitcoins fast - bitcoins would be a bitmore usefull if you could buy them with credit cards / paypal

if you want to tranfer money to someone via bitcoins and it a weekend how do you do it?
bank tranfer take time
cash deposites take time(and banks are usably closed on saturday / sunday)

this.

in the end Bitcoins are not anymore useful than what's already available in society. that's why many people see it as simply the black market currency of the internet, where illegal things become possible. so in the end what's the benefit? a legal black market that is not really practical?

plus the community acts like a bee hive.. if you're not working with them to uplift them and their idea (Bitcoin), they will harshly ridicule you even if your opinion is based on reality and constructiveness.. not that I know how bee hives work, but I know that if you look foreign, it's considered a threat, and if you linger around not sharing the same purpose (you're not a bee), you're going to get stung eventually. so I really don't like that cult mentality I see here. it's the opposite of what leads to success in anything.

There's just no way possible to make it so Bitcoins can be purchased with payment in PayPal -- it is a violation of their terms of service and they actively pursue any violations.  Credit card might happen again, some day, but you'll be paying well above market rate due to chargebacks.

Some options include:

 - http://bitmint.weebly.com/buy.html

With VirWoX you can buy SLL using credit card, then trade SLL for BTC:
 - http://www.VirWoX.com

Physical Bitcoin, paid for with credit card:
 - http://memorydealers.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=bitcoin



Cash deposits through BitInstant at 7-11/WalMart/CVS/etc. in the U.S. are nearly instant.  Using BitcoinSpinner from inside a 7-11, you can have bitcoins five minutes later, before you've even left the store.

I use Intersango with no issues up to now. It usually takes 48h to process a payment to Intersango but I have no idea how much time it takes to withdraw. I'm not aware of any Greek service.

I always keep some spare bitcoins in my wallet for cases I might need them. If I wanted to send large amounts of money, I wouldn't send them all at once, so I would have the time to buy some more in the meantime. You can always get bitcoins during weekends with person-to-person trades. Though, I seem to be the only one in Greece offering bitcoins at localbitcoins.com >.<

CAREFUL WITH BITCOINS AND PAYPAL!

bitmint is $9.5 per bitcoin
I am not sure is 7-11 australia take cash and converts to bitcoins


my problem -I live in Australia and wanted to tranfer $3500 to someone in France urgently this weekend
and did no have enought bitcoins in my wallet. i could not find a method to topup my wallet that was quick
I have credit cards -- paypal - and can get cash out of a teller
and yes I can do a TT -- takes 3 days to clear and $25 cost or use westen union/ moneygram
is there a way of doing this with bitcoins ?

Funny that you should ask!

I see that CryptoXChange accepts cash deposit (at Westpack)
 - http://cryptoxchange.com/Funds/AustraliaBankDeposit

Though you can deposit up to $5K AUD, you wouldn't be able to buy that much in BTCs, at least not in one transaction.

The cash deposit fee is normally 0.6% but for amounts over $1K AUD, the fee is waived.

 - http://cryptoxchange.com/Funds/AustraliaBankDeposit

If you couldn't buy everything you needed at once (without overpaying) you can always send a CrytpoXChange coupon/redeemable code and let the recipient buy bitcoins with the funds.

There are other cash deposit methods in Australia as well.  SpendBitcoins.com and MrBitcoins.com though the fees are higher.

Thanks
banks not open on weekends - but ok solution during bank working hours

To start with Bitcoin, you only have to trust the mathematics laid out here: http://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
Of course, you would also have to trust your mathematics abilities, so that's not really an option for everyone.

The benefit is the well defined, unchangeable supply.  Bitcoins will be created on a set schedule and this schedule will not be deviated from on a long term basis (short term there are small fluctuations in the introduction rate due to the way bitcoin transaction processing works).  With every other currency in the world, the rich and powerful get the "right" to print money and hand it to other rich and powerful people.  When this new money is introduced into the economy, it drives up prices and steals value from anyone holding the currency.  If you enjoy constantly rising prices and not being able to save cash for a rainy day without having it lose purchasing power, than enjoy your fiat.  If you'd like to see something better, helps us get Bitcoin to the point where it can be more stable and widely used.

Sorry guys but Greece rushing to the BTC is nothing but wet dreams of you hoarders.

The Greece can withdraw their cash and put it under their mattress. It's EUR after all. That will not devaluate tomorrow even if they turn to the XGD (http://blogs.wsj.com/eurocrisis/2012/06/01/bloomberg-tests-post-euro-greek-drachma-code/).
As an expert I would never ever suggest on a national news outlet to save money in BTC as what would happen would be you getting all excited about the article buying the BTC to 20$ faster than any any Greek can type bitcoin.org, Greeks would buy it to 250$ and then you would get wet feet and sell high leaving the "saved Greeks" in the rain. In order to allow new people buy bitcoin, the same amount of BTC has to be sold.

I agree, Greeks are very unlikely to adopt bitcoin in any significant fashion.  However, the window is narrowing for them to be able to withdrawal their Euros in a timely fashion.  Capital controls are looking more and more likely.

(hopefully not an aside)

I feel that something is happening here in the States, but I can't put my finger on it. Over a year ago, I was able to withdraw $10K USD from my bank whenever I wanted. Then I was told that I needed to inform the bank a couple days prior to when I needed said amount. Fast forward a few months, and the maximum I could withdraw at one time with a three day notice was half as much. Fast forward again to a couple weeks ago.

I delivered a load of lumber to Elk Grove Village, IL. The client gave me a $2K USD check and he offered to go to his bank with me to make sure I had no problems cashing it. Since he was a new client, and it would be nice to have the extra cash in my pocket for the next leg of my trip to Wisconsin to purchase more lumber, I didn't refuse.

At the bank, I presented to the teller the check and my state ID (my license is still being held in DeKalb county, IL, due to receiving two tickets at the same time--long story, but suffice to say that a bitch is involved). This has worked every other time that I wanted to cash a check at some unknown bank (not a branch of my bank). But not this time. She wanted to see a credit card. I presented her with one. She said that won't work because it will expire in two months. I presented her with my voter registration card. No joy there either. Then I remembered the ticket I received that resides in my wallet and the officer who gave it to me said that this will now work as your official ID until you get your license back.

It gets better.

She looked at it and stated...wait for it (you won't believe it!)...that that would work, but only if I had presented that form of identification first and the second state ID with my photo on it second. It was now time for Plan D. The guy who wrote me the check, standing next to me the whole time, to step in.

We'll call him Ed, since that is his real first name. Ed hands the teller lady his ID to prove that he was the one who wrote the check to me. The lady asks ED...wait for it..., "What do you want me to do with this?" Ed states he's not sure, but thought that providing solid ID that this issue could somehow be resolved. The teller passes the ID back to Ed and states that that won't work. Bear in mind that this is main bank that Ed banks at and the teller has known Ed for years.

It gets better.

Ed than ask the teller to tell me how much money he currently has in his checking account. The teller states that she can't do that in my presence. He then ask if she could write it down and hand him the piece of paper. She grudgingly does it. Ed shows me the piece of paper. I recall that it was just north of $3,900 USD.

Ed then requests from the teller that he would like to withdraw $2K USD. (wait till I get to the WTF moment) The teller informs Ed that she couldn't do that for there isn't enough money in his account to give him $2K USD. (BTW, that's not the WTF moment) The teller, which is now getting impatient with us over this whole ordeal, probably because there were other customers to take care of (Ed and I were the only customers in the bank), told Ed, IN FRONT OF ME, that he only had $1,900+ in his account. Ed asked how could that be when she just shown to him that he had $3,900+. She stated no he doesn't because of...you guessed it...the $2K USD check that she currently has in her possession bought he balance down to only $1,900+. (that, too, was not the WTF moment)

Ed kindly ask for the check. She replies that she couldn't give it to him because...because...because it belonged to me. I then kindly asked for the check back. She grudgingly hands it over to me. Ed kindly asks me, in front of the teller, may I have the check please. I hand Ed the check. He proceeds to tear it up in tiny pieces in front of the teller. He then re-requests $2K of his money from his bank from a teller that he's known for years and to this day has never, ever had a problem with her or his banking institute. The teller replies with, "I think I need to get the manager."

It gets better.

After she was gone for about 5 minutes (probably telling her side of the story to the (her) manager), she and the manager arrive back to the teller booth. The manager ask, "How may I help you?" I replied with, "We both want a blowjob." (no I didn't, although the thought did cross my mind, along with wanting to fuck both of them in the ass, but I figured at that time that that wouldn't get $2K USD in my hand, so I quickly changed my thoughts to something mundane, like Matthew eating dog or...)

Ed relays what has transpired up to that point, with the manager listening contently. When he was done, the manager said that there was nothing she could do. She could not give Ed his money even though he now had more than enough in his account. Why, Ed asked. (here comes the WTF moment) The manager kindly states that it is their banks policy that any request of $2K USD or more had to be requested 3 days prior to make sure that the bank had enough money on hand for daily operations (almost exact quote). Ed and I looked at each other in shocked at what we just heard. The manager broke the silence by asking if there is anything else she could do for us today. Ed replied with, "Yes. I would like to withdraw $1,900 (USD) from my account." The manager replied with...wait for it..."No problem. Will big bills be fine?" Ed said yes, that that would be fine.

We left the bank 15 minutes later. Why so long, you ask? Well, it seems that the teller didn't even have $1,900 USD in her till and she had to requisition more money from her manager. Not the one that just waited on us, but a different one that was luckily finishing up with a client of her's on the phone. The paper was filled out, handed to that second manager, she leaves, and returns with a big wad of money. The teller sings for it after counting it--twice. She puts the money in her tell. Punches keys on what I believe is a ten-key-adder of some sort. Opens the till and pulls out the same wad of money--all twenties. She informs us that they are limited on big bills, those being the hundred dollar ones.

She counts out $1,900 not once, but twice, all the time punching keys on her right. Now she presents the bills to Ed, counting them again. I count silently with her. When we get close to the end, all three of us realize at the same time that there is now one $20 bill too many. She quickly snatches all the bills back and recounts. Yep! One too many. Recounts the bills three more times, with the last time presenting them to Ed, with the amount adjusted. All is now fine. The teller then ask if there is anything else she could do for us besides sucking both our dicks (I think that bitch was a mind reader). We said no. Thanked her and went outside.

Once outside, Ed hands me all the twenties, apologizes, and wishes me a good day. Wait, what about the other $100 USD Ed still owes me, you ask? (WTF Moment II) He already gave it to me. It was included in all those twenties. You see, when the teller thought she made a one-too-many-twenties-mistake, she thought that she was 4 short, not 1 too many (revisit underlined text above). In her mind, she only thought about that $2K USD total and not the $1.9K USD sum. Don't worry, nobody got away with anything. Ed's account was adjusted accordingly, but done so outside of the bank's new policy.

(WTF Moment III) Two days later, I found myself at my bank to withdraw $3K to pay for some other lumber I was about to purchase. The teller informed me...wait for it...that I could only withdraw $2K USD and only if I gave a 3 day notice. Naturally, I then only requested $1,900 USD, writing a check for the balance to one my suppliers.

All that said above, does anybody here have any idea what the fuck is going on with the banking institute here in the US?

~Bruno~

Wow Phinnaeus.... What banks were they?  I haven't had any issues with mine, but I haven't asked for non electronic withdrawals that large in a while.

 
 :D

Ed's was PNC and mine is a Sandwich, IL, local bank. I also bank at Chase, which reminds me to inquire what their new policy is.

~Bruno~

Is this a sign that the banks in the US are going south? I've just withdrawn ~$10,000 USD worth of my local currency last week at a small branch of Citibank and I didn't notice any problems with that.  Most, if not all banks here allow a person to withdraw up to ~$3000 here a day via ATM, and if you need more you can just hit the teller up.
Reminds me to clear my US based bank account next time.  :-\

You swear this is true? I'll have to test it. I ran into an ATM that said it didn't have any money a few weeks ago, I think that just happens from time to time though.

What's going on is both of you are stupid for banking at small banks when they are the prey of bigger banks. and I'm not saying this to be rude, I'm actually answering your question believe it or not.

Interesting story none the less.. almost sounded unreal or like it was staged in Hollywood in some parts. (for example the perfect timing with the other client, and miscounting to give "Ed" $2000).. lol.. and did she really ask to suck your dicks? It was believable at that point in the story.

but again, as sad as it is for the small banks, they are going to go bankrupt and if you and Ed are smart... you will take your money out and go to something with ties to billionaire Jews.

This is the way the world is. You're safe with the strong fish, but vote for the weak if you get the chance.. Right now you have no chance to support the weak. The strong have the best hand right now and I don't think that will ever change, whether through revolution, Bitcoin or otherwise. The world is spiraling into chaos and there is no solution. Live while you can.. there is not much "life" left on earth. Everything is indeed going to shit. You are at the mercy of the strong fish in the meantime and Bitcoin is no different of a story in that respect. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=89771.0;topicseen (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=89771.0;topicseen)

Couldn't a company provide this as a service for a relatively tiny fee?

Customer sends company fiat
Company purchases bitcoin, takes a cut, and puts in cold storage
Customer requests fiat
Company takes bitcoins out of cold storage, sells however many are needed, takes a cut, puts the rest back

Granted, they're still exposed to bitcoin currency risk, but compared to their options...

What about when you want to buy bitcoins? You need to trus MtGox, or Intersango or any other service or person, don't you?

Criminality has risen considerably, there are far more break-ins nowadays (both with guns/injuries/death and without) because people started keeping bank notes at home. Keeping money at home is a big NO-NO for me as it is no solution just as converting money to bitcoins isn't a solution either (just as you mention).

Bruno, something like that is happening here as well. You can't get much money out of the bank without a notice. I don't know the exact limit though.

Well, back when I started, I only needed to trust newegg.com do deliver my GPU order.  Those days are past unless they start carrying custom ASICs in the future.  Even then, it would take a big investment in hardware.  So, yes, you would have to trust another service or person, but that person could be a Greek.  If one person took the risk in say Athens, then others could buy from him and be more comfortable since they know where he lives and who his family is.  He would be up shit creek without a paddle if he ran into trouble, but there is a lot of money to be made on exchange fees, so eventually someone will be diligent enough to do it without screwing themselves.

PNC is not a small bank.  Chase is not a small bank.  In fact, many small banks are doing just fine.  If they aren't they are doing something stupid, or are quietly owned by a large bank who siphons off funds.  This "branding" issue is the only truth to your statement, but it's not hard to figure out if your bank is truly independent.

Your advice for people to take their money out and give it to the big banks is propaganda.  You may believe it's the safest way to hold money, but that's exactly what they want you to think.  These are tough times, but don't just roll over and take it in the ass because you're scared.  The only advantage big banks have over small, independent banks is that people like you think "bigger is safer".  The truth is, many of the large banks (especially the investment banks) are already bankrupt.  They merely have assets on the book "marked to maturity" instead of "marked to market".  This is basically an assumption that by the time they cash in the asset it will be worth more than it is now.  Unless they pull some profits out of their asses in the next few months to a year they are royally screwed.  Some will figure it out, but some will bankrupt.  Either way, the first $250,000 of your deposits should be safe (unless the politicians decide to drop it back to $100,000 right before the crisis, which wouldn't be too surprising) via the FDIC.  Actually, if a big bank goes down, the FDIC will have a much harder time backing the deposits than if a small bank fails.  They will likely figure out a way to pay out (otherwise we will see bankruns that usher in the greatest depression), but with a large bank failure, you will be waiting on your money much longer.

The issue with getting cash isn't a sign banks are going south (cash is a tiny fraction of a banks "assets" and "liabilities").  The amount of cash a bank can get you has no bearing on its solvency.  What the issue does illustrate is the govt (not just US but all govt) attempt to marginalize cash.

This process has been going on for 40+ years.  Ever wonder why there is no bill larger than a $100?    You could get a $100 bill in 1970 yet the largest bill you can get today is still $100 and it only has the purchashing power of <$20 (1970 dollars).  They didn't get rid of the $100 bill in 1970 why isn't there a $500 bill today.

In 1878 you could get cash in a 10,000 bill (there was at one time a 100K bill but it was a rare gold cert oddity so we will ignore it).  Today $10K cash note may seem crazy but remember this was 1878.  $10K in 1878 would be the equivalent of $317,682 today.  

Now the $10K note was pretty rare but lets look at a smaller not which remained in active circulation until 1968; the $500 bill.  Since the $500 bill was discontinued the US govt hasn't discontinued any other bills and the $100 remains the largest bill.   However due to inflation the purchashing power of the largest bill has gone down.   $100 today is the equivalent of $15.14 in 1968.

So in 1968 when they discontinued the $500, they chose to make the largest bill $100, not $50, or $20, or $10.  Limiting largest bill to $10 may seem insane but due to inflation (and not introducing larger bills) that is exactly what the govt has done.   The largest bill today has less purchashing power than a $20 bill when the govt decided to remove the $500 but keep the $100/$50/$20.  The govt doesn't need to remove the $100 bill (and thus cash in general) inflation will eventually make it nearly worthless.  

 It gets worse when you consider most ATM only dispense $20 and many places only accept $20 bills.  $20 today is the equivelent of $3.07 in 1968.  The fact that most places don't give/take bills larger than $20 is as outrageous as a store in 1968 saying "sorry we don't take large bills like $5 got any ones, or maybe a handful of coins".

Had the govt simply stepped in and eliminated a cash there would have been a backlash.  By letting inflation, bank cash limits, ATM denominations, and store policies do the work cash can be eliminated as a functional mechanism of exchange over time.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/50/10000-2f.jpg

What about the sudden implementation of withdrawal limits on savings accounts? Apparently, more than 6 withdrawals from savings per month is some kind of federal reporting trigger, and the bank can and will close your account for exceeding that. I don't recall any such limitation until recently, although I am not sure what law was passed to make that effective. They insist that you use a checking account for frequent transfers instead.

I wonder if there is some backdoor law that allows them to snoop on checking accounts but not savings accounts, and so they decided to make savings accounts less useful. It's strange.

You wanted change, you got it!

You're referring to Regulation D: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_D_(FRB)

Oh shut up, Reg D has been around long before Obama

http://www.bankersonline.com/compliance/guru2010/gurus_comp051710a.html

Strange that it is being enforced only recently? I haven't had issues years ago.

Funny :) So while some want to abandon the penny, they don't bother to abandon it cause they plan to abandon cash completely? Sounds logical to me.

This limitation was there since forever. The root of it is in the costs of insuring and maintaining the account. I'm kinda thinking that "sudden" probably means "first time in my life that I read the account disclosure booklet. I used to simply throw it away."

One thing that US banking system has figured out exceedingly well is the default and fraud risk on personal accounts. There are so many flags that signal imminent personal bankruptcy, one of them is lack of normal monthly or biweekly budget planning. It manifests itself by too frequent too small withdrawals. The limits are on the quantity of individual withdrawals, not on the total amount withdrawn.

Railing against those limits is akin to railing against higher car insurance rates for unmarried men less than 25 years old. It leads nowhere because it has no wider social support.

Well in that case, I've decided to set off all the alarms by never using a savings account again. Mainly because my checking account pays more interest than the savings.

Indeed.  I have a savings account with $5 in it because it is required to be a member of my credit union.  Everything else (USD-wise) goes in checking.  Actually, I have a small savings account that I share with my fiance that gets $10/week for each of us, but we may convert it to a checking at some point.  We have never had to make more than 2 withdrawals a month, and even checking account interest is crap so it's just not worth the hassle.

What can I say to that? I envision for you the future of using check cashing, payday loan, rent-to-own & pawn shop establishments.

It can happen to anyone; I'm not sure if this is the correct link for Collateral Lender of Beverly Hills. It is a lifestyle choice and also probably lasts a lifetime.

http://www.collaterallender.com/

Or maybe your future wife will be your credit manager? I've seen that too.

How will saving his money in a checking account that yields higher interest than a savings with less restrictions hurt his finances?

I'm not interested in providing credit counseling to the "how-much-per-month" crowd. There are at least two industries providing that advice in the USA: one for-profit and one non-profit. They have quite respectable success ratios. But as they say in a joke:

Q: How many psychotherapists does it take to change a lightbulb?
A: Normally just one, but the lightbulb has to want to change.

I don't follow at all.  What does this have to do with credit/financing?  We are talking about deposit accounts.

I'm not sure I understand either, but from what I gather, 2112 is saying that I am a credit risk because I perform many transactions per month, or something.

I'm not sure how it is relevant, especially given my stellar credit, but ???

I think he just has a chip on his shoulder about something and is trying to transfer it to you.

I don't get it either.  I don't regularly use a savings account, and I haven't pawned anything in my life.  If I walk into a car dealership, I consider it a given that I can drive away in anything I want, brand new and fully loaded, with nothing more than a signature.  So what is the secret I am missing?

in re. miscounting: When the teller was counting the bills, she must have gotten it mixed up in her mind between $1,900 and $2,000. Ed and I were only expecting $1,900. The final count came to $1,920 somehow (perhaps new bills stuck together, for a majority of them were crisp). She recounted and it came to $1,920 once again. But instead of returning a $20 bill to the till, she reached into the till and pulled out 4 $20 bills. She adds them to the pile and presents them all with a final count of $2,000 to Ed.

I pretty sure that they could have gave him/us a few hundred dollar bills, but I firmly believe that a vindictive attitude sat in, as in, "Take that you bastards, and you're not getting your dicks sucked either!"

Speaking of dick sucking, she really didn't think, let alone say, that. If you read my (true) story carefully, you'll see that I infected that aspect twice for humor purposes only. Sorry for any confusion.

I just reread my account to hunt down what you mean by "the perfect timing with the other client", but it seems to elude me. I did realize something though. Why did she ask if big bills would be fine, but proceeded to only give twenties? Taxing my memory, I seemed to hash that same thought in my mind while driving to Wisconsin. That, and Matthew eating pet dogs (with names).  ;D

~Bruno~

I too have found it very taxing on my memory to perform hash operations in my mind.  I am only able to perform about 0.000000003 MH/s mentally, and will probably need to drive to the moon to have enough time to solve a block that way.

Can you really compute 6 sha256 sums in 1000 seconds without a computer?  That's impressive.

Ah, a land-less and family-less youngster whith a post-secondary education (or while obtaining a post-secondary degree) with "stellar" debt-slave score. I just hope that you aren't black, because my pot-shot was all equal-opportunity, non-discriminatory and race-blind.

I'll tell you the story. Years ago I went to the bookstore to pick up a special order. Due to mistakes the book I was handed was something like "Proceedings of a TRW conference on numerical modeling in consumer finance {or some such}". It was raining so I spent couple of hours flipping through it, but I now still regret not buying it.

There was a ton of super-interesting nuggets in it, but I particularly remember the "behavioral modeling" chapter. There was a matrix of data from MBNA who used to run credit cards affiliated with professional associations. In most of the upper bands of income the most profitable (for MBNA) card was ADA (American Dental Association) and the worst performing was AICPA (American Institute of Certified Public Accountants). Not surprisingly dentists had higher credit scores than accountans, normalized for all other factors.

The moral of this story? The "credit score" isn't meant to measure the likelihood of you repaying the debt. It is meant to measure how profitable of a customer you are going to become for the credit grantor. There exist people who wouldn't consider "high credit score" to be something to be proud of.

I presume that with your car dealership story you've meant to convey that you are an experienced point-of-sale credit user, that you've obtained car loans from the car salespeople, morgage from the builder's salespeople, player credit at the casino cage, etc.

In that case the secret you are missing could probably be expressed in the old Jewish proverb: "Don't ask the tailor if the suit fits."

I apologise if I misunderstood you and the "nothing more than a signature" was in fact a signature on your check that your presented to the fleet sales rep at the car dealer's.

Interesting. I wasn't necessarily referring to a score as such, I simply stated credit in general. Although I have made use of the 3 free reports per year to ascertain my creditworthiness, since they are free after all.
I'll also give you some interesting tidbits so that you may continue to draw conclusions. For instance, I make heavy use of electronic transactions (ACH, credit/debit cards, etc.) because they are convenient and because I am not charged anything to do so. Indeed, I am paid to do so in some cases, particularly in the example of credit cards with "reward points" and such.

You could say that that is my effort to leach off of a failed system, but we all know that the ones footing the bill are the merchants and the ones that pay the sky-high percentages and fees when they dare to use their credit beyond where they are able to repay. That is one of the reasons I discovered and embraced Bitcoin - it allows me the convenience of online payments without enriching an existing infrastructure.

And guesses as to my age by others here have been all over the map, ranging from really low to really high, so perhaps I am obtuse enough to be confusing.

Pure genius. How else could someone know I live paycheck to paycheck, use pawn shops and payday lenders, built my own home to suit, and at the same time can write a check to buy a new car. THAT MAKES PERFECT SENSE! ;D

Age isn't a number. The best phrase I heard about this is from my former landlord and a real-estate manager who insisted on face-to-face meetings to ascertain the credit rating: "fifty going on fifteen".

Please feel free to call yourself "young at heart" if "youngster" was offensive. I apologise.

The phrase "my own home" means something else in the USA than throughout the rest of the world.

In fact, the American society is so diverse, that even in the USA this phrase lost any meaning without the cultural context.

http://dba-oracle.com/redneck.htm

Can you explain the difference to us?  You seem to know everything, but you also seem unwilling to share your vast knowledge.

I'm sorry, I though it was obvious after the housing bubble and how widely publicized it was.

In the USA "own a home" most frequently means "have a mortgage to pay" or "have a home equity line of credit to pay".  The actual home-owners are surprisingly rare, especially in the more prestigious or upscale locations. The stress caused by high debt load in turn causes many family problems.

On the other hand "voluntary debt slavery" may be considered a new social glue for the USA. There's no easier man to scare that the one who has a mortgage and lifestyle to maintain.

Edit: OK, I think I just gotten myself trolled. Here's the quote from the redneck link I posted above. And with this quote I'm going to end participating in this thread.

Living around Rednecks has had a profound effect on my way of looking at life.  Once while driving my fancy new car, I visited a country cousin and committed what Redneck Theologists call the “sin of pride” when I mentioned that the car had cost me a fortune.  In good humor, he pointed to his giant farm tractor and said, “Well, I’m impressed. See that reaper over there?  She cost me over $200,000.00; I paid cash; and I reckon I only take her out a few weeks a year”.  Man, was I ever humbled in the presence of such profound Redneck wisdom.  I now think twice before bragging.

Combine that with the $1000 daily limit that is imposed on many savings accounts, and that means you can only withdraw $6000 a month from a savings account. With restrictions like that, you can't pay cash for that $200,000 reaper.