Bitcoin Forum

I know this has been discussed hundreds of times, but we really do need to do something about the altcoin section. The altcoin is now biggest section on the forum and altcoin spam constantly spills over into other sections. BitcoinTalk is becoming less and less about Bitcoin, many older members are leaving because of this, I even left a few months ago and have recently returned hoping for things to be different yet its the same.

It's obvious the altcoiners are not going away any time soon and a solution is desperately needed, so here is what I propose we do:

The BitcoinTalk management builds a separate forum for the altcoin community and the existing altcoin section is migrated over there. The separate forum could be run and moderated by current altcoin section staff.

A rule be introduced and strictly enforced that bans promotion of altcoins on bitcointalk.

Once the new forum has established itself, ownership of it could be transferred away from bitcointalk to reputable altcoin forum staff members.

What do you guys think about this? I think it's the best way to get rid of the altcoiners and have discussion on BitcoinTalk actually be about Bitcoin.

I don't see much alt coin stuff spilling into other sections and when it does it's minor and handled pretty quickly. What I like about having the alt section is at least everything is kept (largely) quarantined in there. If we didn't have it people would still post alt coin stuff here. Whilst your suggestion could work I don't think it will happen and just seems like actually creating more hassle and work for the staff to be honest.

I agree. The staff do a great job of keeping bitcoin sections like the Marketplace clean.

I personally have always hated how we have tolerated it. Largely a cesspool of scum and villainy. They do not further Bitcoin, and they prey upon new users more often than not. Bitcoin is dangerous enough for the uninitiated, having the scam coins parked here is not helping things.

I agree with OP. I didn't throw money at this forum to support alt-coins.

The problem is that serious old posters doesnt give a fuck that people are getting scammed by most altcoins for so much time.

Altcoins dont need regulation. They only need some serious members posting guidelines,thoughts, explaining etc to newbies. And it is up to them if they want to follow or not.



Personally i only want a damn 'ignore thread' button!

The altcoin sections are very popular, so I'd like to support them. I don't think that they do anything to hurt the other sections. If you're annoyed at how they clutter the "show unread posts since last visit" page, then you can add those boards to your ignore boards list. (I'm thinking of changing this page so that you can click a button next to each thread to ignore the board it's in.)

I'm not usually interested in altcoins myself, but I can see how people can enjoy them. Most altcoin "investing" is a lot like gambling. I can see how trying to navigate and manipulate these tiny markets could be fun for a lot of people. These pump-and-dump altcoins aren't really competitors to Bitcoin: they're really a way of using your bitcoins to gamble. There are also a handful of technologically interesting altcoins like Monero, which I think are very useful for testing new ideas that might one day be incorporated into Bitcoin.

I used to have all the altocoin forums on ignore, then I found syscoin. But the utter scams that take place in the altcoin section come to find out is HORRIBLE. Not only that when people get scammed in altcoin it gets tied to bitcon."looks bad for the community" I think they should have there own  forum and I am a active member of the syscoin community and and all 85 people in our IRC agree. We are moving away from using bitcointalk in general cause of the HUGE cesspool of scams that go on there and we do not want to be associated with it.

I get messages everyday asking me to find the guy who start poopcoin, hotdogcoin, beercoin, yadda yadda cause people follow the crowds just like they did with pirate40

I think the current system is a great compromise.  I appreciate having this high quality forum to be the first place I go to in order to find out about alt coins while at the same time having it clearly isolated in the alt coin area.  I think it is a good thing that veteran members can comment on altcoins if they post here if they so choose.

I like the idea of an "ignore board" button.

I like that this forum is a big tent and just don't see the spill over from the alt coin section being an issue.

Theymos is profiting in some way off alt-coin boards popularity, so any discussion in its removal will be just that. Discussion. If I knew those funds were going towards the community I wouldn't mind so much. Consider the amount of money that's been donated to these boards and what we have so far got in return though. This is the only reason why I'm a little bitter, as I wanted to support this community and Bitcoin, not those who would debase it and taint bitcoin's name and its technology.

No reasonable person could look at those boards and say it has a place here on bitcointalk.


What is in it for this community by supporting them? Why do you think its worth the bandwidth and risk to new users?


Their mere presence here hurts the community's and bitcoin's credibility. Why should new users believe us when we tell them Bitcoin isn't a scam, but we are gladly party to alt-coins which are?



They're popular, so you wanted to support them I thought. That support I would figure requires active interest and a clear benefit to these forums or yourself.


Why are we even about facilitating this activity here. I could see how it could be fun for people too, but why is this an argument for keeping them around? Whats in it for the rest of us? If the alt boards are generating traffic and helping to support the site just say so.

 
But naive users don't know that. They come here to learn about bitcoin and instead are blasted with a huge amount of BS they have to sift through. It makes knowledgeable users job of educating that much harder.

And any technologically interesting coin capable of succeeding doesn't need to use bitcointalk as a launch platform and should be expected to stand on their own merit...

edit: hmmm so looks like new users aren't blasted with alt-coin propaganda as much as they used to be. At least that's changed for the better since I've been gone. And apparently new forum software is coming out... honestly I didn't ever see that happening.

[haha

didn't you yourself create a couple of coins? Just recently two more?

So people want alts and don't want alts but then want them again?
I don't understand. ]


cutting off the section to a new forum will lead to confusion for newbies and could cause more harm then good overall. Crypto is not just bitcoin. Developement is ongoing of course so cutting off that section makes absolutely no sense. Your view on things needs to be corrected. You see bitcoin as seperate from alts. That's not the case, why should it be?

Blazr2 isn't me.

ok. didn't know that. How come he names himself after you?

alts are traded against btc.
I think since we are dealing with a lot rebels here too there could be a fair risk of a large part of trades going to litecoinmarkets and others. Seperating the altforum entirely will weaken bitcoin and strengthen altcoins particularly litecoin aswell as other alts which could be potentially then the coin of choice to trade other alts against if bitcoin is perceived as arrogant and elitist.

So seperating the two risks loosing demand for btc as the coin of choice to trade against.

I could be wrong but could happen. Seperating the forum could lead to seperation of groups (which is intended) and actually will weaken bitcoin.

Altcoins are the heirs to Bitcoin and are not threats but rather bolster its antifragility.

Satoshi loves his grandchildren at least as much as his first born.

Thanks for telling Theymos how to run his BBS.  I'm extremely pleased your grumbling has produced an endorsement of Monero from our gracious host!   ;D

Well then just consider it a bonus.

Seriously I understand what you are saying

But the altcoin section has grown so big killing it is not an option.

Just put the board on ignore.


~BCX~

I think it is a reasonable compromise put that forum board in an "ignore mode". Altcoins are necessary to rustle up some bitcoins if someone cannot buy it (btc) directly.

If you're in the mood to make changes to the forum, please consider adding an "unwatch" link to the watchlist page next to each thread.

Here's the problem I encounter:

• I configure my watchlist to automatically add all threads in Bitcoin Discussion
• People mispost crap threads in Bitcoin Discussion that quickly get moved to the correct area
• I'm still Watching the crap threads, so the watchlist is less useful than it could be
• Removing the crap threads from the watchlist means opening each one individually to access the unwatch link, so it's usually not even worth the trouble
• Therefore, it's easiest to only read and post in Cypherdoc's "Gold collapsing, Bitcoin up" thread instead rather than attempting to use any other part of the forum.

People are often tempted to dictate what other people can and cannot do. It is a temptation to be resisted.

I prefer to make my own decisions about what to view and what to ignore. I do not share OP's value judgments.
One size does not fit all, even when intentions are the best (especially when intentions are the best, imho).         ;)

The Ignore Poster button is a wonderful thing. Extending its granularity is a welcome development.

An old joke comes to mind because it seems to fit the situation:

An old lady repeatedly phones the police to complain about the carryings-on next door that she sees from her window.
The exasperated officer taking the calls finally suggests that she just draw her curtains.
She replies "yes, but I can still see them if I peek through the corner".

This.


It is because of comment like this that I have no hope Bitcoin will ever go mainstream.



The altcoin scam spamming is over. Noobs has become experienced after losing money.
You can only learn by experience. The more you lose, the more you learn.
Any noob needs to get scammed at least few times before being able to identify potential scams.
It is not our job to over-protect/babysit them.

+1


No, Microsoft is now accepting Bitcoin. It is almost mainstream.


Golden words.

Seems like many repliers here are taking me up wrong. This is BitcoinTalk, I think it makes sense for the main topic to be about Bitcoin and not other projects/currencies, does it not?

One could argue PayPal is an altcoin because it is a service that uses cryptography (SSL) to authenicate payments of fiat currencies. Maybe we should have a PayPal section too?

I think there's a way to reduce spam on Altcoin Section.

"Newbie accounts shouldn't be able to post in this section".

If At least JR Members post in this section, it'll be better.

These Newbies tries to FUD coins, And puts money into scam shitcoins etc.

If they can't see/post till they became JR, At least they learn a bit of what bitcoin really is.

Problem is the spammers already have hundreds of accounts and they post in all sections.

The original motivation that is still heavily a factor, is that if the alt coin section was removed, we would just have people spamming the rest of the boards with alt coin stuff. Essentially the same argument as having the Off Topic section. It doesn't relate to Bitcoin, but its a place to put things that shouldn't go into "Bitcoin Discussion" or the likes. Another point is, people rush to call Alt Coins a scam, or that bad or seedy behavior from some Alt Coin players leaves a bad stigma on Bitcoin or something. That is sort of hypocritical, talking about Alt Coin scams is the same as talking about the Bitcoin scam because of Pirateat40, Nefario, or MtGox. A few bad actors shouldn't be the motivation for changing the rules that apply to a group. I'm sure that's a philosophy many of us hold dear. "Scam coins" are incredibly rare. A Scam coin is not a pump and dump coin, or a coin designed to make the owner rich, a Scam coin is something that compromises your other wallet.dats. If you invest in a shitty coin and it goes under, that's business. Do better research and invest accordingly, I can't believe that people especially here don't understand that.

I agree Alt Coins are not Bitcoins, but there is a huge double standard going on. Prevent Regulation! Cheers from one side of the room, and Think about the (children) Newbies?! from the other side. Bitcointalk doesn't moderate scams, it doesn't moderate people with crappy business plans that will most likely go under, because this is a new technology, people should be open to play about with it and see where it goes. If you are a new person, sure playing a 1,000 XCoins is probably a great educational experience for you. If XCoin flops because the Dev is a dutchbag or for errors in the code, hopefully you didn't lose much and got a really nice lesson. If you lost a lot, why the hell are you investing large sums of money if you don't know what you are investing it in?

My post isn't a shot at anyone in this thread in particular, but I've heard this argument so many times before, and it really still baffles me reading people's philosophies in other threads, and then seeing how quick they are to turn and prosecute Alt Coins for the children! or to prevent terrorism! or whatever else people want to yell to rally support. If you want to end what is bad with Alt Coins, do it with education and your bitcents. Let the moderators handle spam, report it if you see it.

Well, in that case; there could be an "IP restriction" by posting Altsection.
If spammer has 5+ user account that fits into the criteria, then (s)he shouldn't post from same IP, if it's detected, all detected user accounts should be banned from this section.

This is why I proposed the creation of a new forum. If we kick out altcoiners now, they'll have nowhere to go, but if we migrated the existing section to a new forum for them first hopefully the majority will go over there and won't spam up bitcointalk.


I totally agree. PayPal is a cryptocurrency, their shady business practices shouldn't affect Bitcoin's reputation.


What do you have against the dutch?


But I'm not doing that. Don't get me wrong I'm not an "altcoiner" and my reasons for that is I do not see a compelling reason to use one, nor do I know of any altcoins that I trust. I am of the opinion bitcointalk should be mainly about discussion of Bitcoin, and other cryptocurrencies whether they be Litecoin, PayPal, ApplePay or Dogecoin should be mainly discussed on their own forums. I think that BitcoinTalk has gone offtopic.

Right, I didn't mean to target you in particular, but 95% of the supporters you are going to gather in this thread are going to be here for more than just your reasons, I wanted to try and address as many possible. As far as creating an entirely new forum for Alt Coins, I dont think thats the way to go. With the new forum software I'm expecting there will be some serious improvements to the Alt Coin section and rest of the forum organization, but as far as creating a new forum, there are plenty of others just for Alt coins, but people still come here. While I don't think that Paypal could be considered a Cryptocurrency, for the purpose of our discussion that isn't important.

Unless I'm misunderstanding you, your biggest issue with the alt currency section is how it spills into the rest of the forum. To a certain extent there is no avoiding people posting in the wrong section. The forum staff moves hundreds of threads to more correct location per day, if something is out of place, just report it and we will get to it. I don't think removing the section and moving it elsewhere  or anything else will really prevent people from making the occasional accident of starting a thread in the wrong place, and those that do it on purpose are removed.

I could make the same argument that this is a Bitcoin forum, we shouldn't have a Politics and Society or Off topic section. I am of the opinion that Bitcoin, Alt Coins, and Politics and Society are all interrelated. Close enough to stay on the same forum, but if any measures to prevent spillage from the Altcoin section out could be taken it would be best to do so. The new forum software should open up a lot of doors for that sort of thing, and just waiting and carrying on is our best action.

i think it's running better now, with the moderator, and the sections separated, nothing like the old crazy altcoin section

but it must be pointed that the alt scene is a bit death also now...

everything is dead now including bitcoin. That will change once the resistance around 450$ is broken and nobody will then care about any of this crap because everyone will be busy moving money around. Right now people are just very bored.

Then the noobs you speak of are no longer noobs and you're applying your logic to the last group of noobs. By definition it is impossible for newcomers to be experienced and therefore safe from scams.

Just because Microsoft have began to accept doesn't mean it's any where near mainstream.