Bitcoin Forum

Would it be a better idea to mine solo or go for a pool?  Mine BTC or some altcoin?  If pool, which pool should I go with?

Price per KW/h where I live is .088 KW/h.

I'm also debating only getting 10 TH/s worth, and then purchasing solar panels for power, but need opinions of those more experienced before making a decision, any advice would be appreciated.

With 20 TH miner, i would still use pool for mining. And will choose PPS pool since the payout will constant  ;D

Did you mean 0.088 USD per KWH?

Yes, .088 USD per KW/h.  I've been looking at mining calculators and such for my figures and even 10 TH/s will generate 11k in profit annually, and 20 KH/s would be about 24k, but I'm looking to add on as the profit comes in to expand eventually up to generate at least $70k/yr in profit. 

I have plans for a dedicated metal shed complete with AC units, vents and a breaker box eventually, but with just my house, I estimate that I can run at least 60 Th/s safely in one of the rooms with a few window AC units.

I was seeing that with 60 TH/s it would only take me a month to generate a full block solo, so I thought that might be more profitable.  I was however looking for ballpark figures from someone with around the same power that I was going for (10 or 20 TH/s)

The real challenge is convincing my wife.

Then... good luck , I think it will be a difficult task ;D.   Can I ask you where do you live ? 0.088 USD per KWh is a good price .

That would be one nice rig, what sort of equipment were you thinking of?
Have you figured in tax with your profit calculations?
Did you think about the block reward only being half of what it is now in just over a year to 18months?
If you do go ahead maybe tell the local cops so they don't kick in ya door at 5am thinking you have a crop growing.

Northern Idaho.

And I have not figured in taxes, what it is categorized as?  I was thinking I could claim it as a business and write off the electricity under operating costs.

The 2 Th/s rigs I were looking at are the Ant Miner S4s.

I was thinking of buying a small rig, an Ant Miner or such and showing her profits from it, seeing if that could convince her.  Our current situation is our bills are low enough that we can pay it with half of one of her paychecks, but if I start mining without telling her, the $600 electric bills will be noticed.....  I don't work and just sit on a trust fund from parents with around $700k in it, but it's not making me money monthly (not alot at least), and I don't trust the stock market at the moment.

I could spend it on things, but then I would have no money, so I would rather spend money on something that will make me money, before I start spending money on things that cost me money.

So your in the US and you think your going to get away with mining bitcoin and not think about tax, the IRS will screw you!
Sorry to tell you this but you should get familar wih the btc tax laws before starting and trying to write off the electricty. And if when you finish with reading that if mining is still profitable then try.

700k trust fund, right, me too  :P

Believe what you want, I'm trying to get information, not show off, was just explaining my situation.  $700k isn't really a lot of money anyways, if my wife wasn't still working, I would run out in around 18 years continuing with our current lifestyle.

On another note, is there a calculator that can estimate shares per second based on hash power?  I can't seem to find one to calculate PPS.


EDIT:  The only thing I can find concrete related to BTC is treat it as a stock option that's gifted, so it's taxed depending on when it's sold after the gift.   This would be taxed at 28% or 25% for my income bracket, still profitable, though I would probably need a bit more than 60 TH/s for my goal of $70k passive.

I believe all mining calculator is PPS calculator  :)
Like this one coinwarz (http://www.coinwarz.com/calculators/bitcoin-mining-calculator)

Not giving you shit just wish i had cash.
If your after a mining calculator try this one.
https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/calculator

Is the difficulty increment really 20%?  That seems way off.   And i'm looking more for something like shares generated per second per GH/s, because I'm sure PPS varies per pool.

Nobody know exactly what the difficulty will do, if lots of people lile you set up 20TH mining rigs it could explode.
There is some pretty good estimates on the net.
Did you know the block reward will half in early to mid 2016?

approximately the : 2016-07-31 17:08:34 UTC (84 weeks, 5 days, 11 hours, 40 minutes)    (source : http://bitcoinclock.com/ ).

The truth is, mining is not a sure thing.  Profits are actually getting pretty thin, if they even exist..

Like everything, there is risk and reward, you may or may not make back the money you invested into mining, depending on a few things, mostly difficulty adjustments and btc price.

Think twice, there could be better businesses for you to invest in.  (I would forget about alt-coins, they are mostly all shit).

Is that time set in stone? It does say block reward drop ETA
Not doubting you just thought it would change often.

By that time I'm sure just using proceeds + advances in mining hardware could get me into PH/s by myself if I became serious enough and saw the money, at that point I'd probably get a dedicated location that's not my house though...

It seems profitable enough with only 50 TH/s - taxes, even that is about $50k in income for 1 year (assuming average price does not change)  If I use that solely for buying more hashing power I can get up to 150 TH/s, which would have $115k of profit, even halved would still be around $57k by 2016.  Supposing this 4 year cycle is correct, that would be 57k a year for profit for 4 years, at which I'm sure I could sell the equipment off (assuming no failures) for around half of what I purchased it for.

If I continued to add equipment with proceeds, the money would just keep going up assuming BTC does not lose value from saturation.  But if the World Bank picked it up as a use-anywhere currency, I expect the USD value to skyrocket really.

Honestly though I'm thinking about just buying some Chick-fil-a franchises, but that requires constant work, and I don't want that for a while, even though my wife would be happier about that decision because she LOVES their sandwiches...

EDIT:  Anyone have a AntMiner S3+?  I have around 3 400W power supplies laying around the house and might use 1 to find out if this is worth my while.

Keep in mind that just buying btc and holding has historically been the most profitable route.   And on top of that, it is a lot less work than running a mining farm!

Good luck whatever you do anyway. 

I strongly suggest you start with just a single SP20 or S4, or similar, to at least try mining before dreaming of riches. Some comments:

1) Your claim of 11k profit annually from 10 TH/s appears to ignore the large initial setup costs.

It will cost you a large part of your first years 'profit' to pay for the mining hardware and any electrical or air conditioning work needed to set up the bitcoin mining. This is most of your first years 'profit'.

2) Your claim of 11k profit annually from 10 TH/s after paying the startup costs appears to be optimistic.  Presumably you used Bitcoin at around $360, electricity at say $0.088 kWh, no difficulty change and say 7,000 Watts  (0.7 Watt/gigahash) for power.

Bitcoin is currently around $330 lowering your expected 'profit' by 10%.  Your electrical costs are also likely to be higher than expected, especially if air conditioners are used.  Then there is the cost of your time to learn mining and set up your miners, and maybe even a divorce.

Also, has been mentioned in earlier posts, in mid 2016 the bitcoin payout to miners falls from 25 bitcoins per block to 12.5 bitcoins per block.  So the total return from all mining will half.

3) 60 Terrahash needs a lot of electrical power, generates a lot of heat and can generate a lot of noise.  It would draw the same electricity as about 60 normal houses or a moderately sized commercial or industrial operation.  You may need to install a three phase supply rated for a couple of hundred amps.  Even for 10 Terrahash you may need upgraded supply wiring and switchboard.

4) It would take a brave person to go solo mining with just 20 to 60 Terrahash.  Mining is a statistical event.  With just 20-60 Terrahash you could easily go months without a block being found.  A number of smaller mining pools have already discovered this the hard way, for example ozcoin.

The circuitry in my house can easily handle a 100 KW/h draw from a single outlet with no issues with the current equipment, all of my wiring in the house is VERY thick.  I paid for my house to be custom built on land I purchased in 2012 with the best equipment I could afford within reasonable usage amounts, so I don't have to replace anything for a long time, and it will help retain value in-case we move.   Plus, 60 TH/s is only around 36 KW/h with AntMiner S4s (Supposedly), and is definitely not energy worth of 60 housholds, so that really won't be a problem at all.

I do, however, believe I will simply purchase a single AntMiner S4 at first to prospect, because if it doesn't give me what I want, I can always re-sell it.

Anyone half one that can rep it to give me an idea of what to expect?

cant wait, post it

I ran 17th and blew my 100amp main fuse (240v)

I ran 16mm2 cabling and 6mm radial sockets for all machines and cables still get warm.

Unless your sockets are wired in 10-16mm and you have 400amp three phase coming into house you won't gey over 15-20th with current miners.

36 KW for 60 TH/s implies 0.6 watts/gigahash which I doubt an S4, and associated cooling, could do even with underclocking.

Purchasing and testing an S4 to get an idea on what to expect sounds very sensible.

My understanding is that S4s have an "at wall" rating of 0.69 Watts/gigahash, with under clocking being able to bring this down to about 0.66 Watts/gigahash.  So 60 TH/s would require 41.4 kilowatts, plus you mentioned you are considering using air conditioning units for cooling.  This could add at least another 20%. or 4 kilowatts.  So I would aim for at least 45 KW/h to get 60 TH/s from S4s.

As an aside the original 60 households estimate is based on an average house using about 24 kWh of energy per day and 60 kW of power being used for mining.  The actual US daily electrical energy usage for a house is slightly higher than that at 30 kWh per day.   So a more accurate figure for someone mining in the US using 45 kW (1080 kWh of energy per day) for mining is equivalent to the electrical energy consumption of 1080/30 or 36 US houses.  

I sent you a private message.

don't do it. 0.088 is way too high to make money right now. maybe if BTC was $600

I have found somehing that might suit your needs https://bitmaintech.com/productDetail.htm?pid=000201412171033028658LE40FU705ED
Perfect for you, your wife will never find out!
This is squalls thread about it
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=896602.0

I have multiple power lines from electric company.   I have been able to do 16-17T and still have room to grow. 

It depends on price.  Go with SP20 or S4.   Your electricity is not bad.   I might suggest starting off a little smaller.  Going nothing to 20T will create a lot of possible issues.   Most homes will not be ready for 20T unless you get a electrician.  Also networking need to have it ready. 

Also something most don't mention is security.  Personally I have security with both of my mining areas.  I'm sure some skip this but I sleep safe with this.

lol.....might as well go big! 

HA!  I'm not quite sure I'm willing to spend $425k on a non-refundable investment.  I won't even spend that much on a car (at the moment) and my last vehicle cost me 112k fully loaded.  Wife wasn't happy about that one, but you know for sure I fucking am with a brand new GT-R fresh off the line.

I've ordered a single S4 and will debate getting more depending on the success and cost this one unit runs me.

Still wishing I bought a shit-ton of coins when I originally found out about BTC, it was like 20 bucks for over 10,000 at that time.  I had a friend that accidentally threw out a hard drive that had over 30,000 coins on it.  Had to stop him from killing himself, and he still bitches about it every single day I see him.  I would too probably.

Not sure what you are saying here.

100kw/h do you mean 100KWH a month or 100kw an hour because:
20 amp circuit(If you're lucky because most houses use cheaper 15 amp circuits) at 120v is only 2400 watts.

Now you can only use 80% of this safely so that leaves 1920 watts.
An Antminer s4 (Which you have stated you would like) uses 1380 watts.
So in other words per room(Because circuits are normally divided by room) you can run 1 s4 and 1 s3 Giving you 2441 Gh/s per circuit

A normal house has anywhere from 60-200 amps
You run 0 other items in your house(No lights or cooling quipment)
you get 24000 watts at best again 80 percent is 19200 watts leaving you with 11 s4 totaling 22 Th/s so your 20Th/s would be best case senario for your whole house an no other items running at all in your house.

Now you can get a service upgrade from your Power provider but this normally requires you paying a lot of money for new transformers and such. but if you would like some statistics on a s4 They fluctuate by about 5% on avg This is sometimes good sometimes bad all depends on your pool, difficulty, exterior conditions and the specific s4 you get.

Not at all trying to be mean just putting the info in the thread

I meant 100 KW daily draw, put the /h by habit.  Each of the rooms in my house has 6-10 outlets of the 20 amp kind.  My wife and I usually use anywhere from 80-150 KW a day, depending on appliance usage, my computer alone with all my monitors and stuff inside it uses almost 1.7 KW/h.  I'm not certain of the specs, but I was told by the electrician that set up the house that my house could easily handle a 1,200 KW draw daily on all circuits without any worries about issues, though he wasn't sure when or what I would need that much power for.

I'm planning on buying a Tesla sometime, but I'd like to make some more money before I drop another 100k on a vehicle.  The more power available to my house increases the likelihood I can install a SuperCharger at my house.

EDIT:  I re-read your post.  The 15 amp "circuits" you're referring to are the amperage ratings of a standard 120v wall outlet, which there is most certainly not 1 per room.  Distribution is controlled by the breaker box, which is essentially a large circuit distributor, and the draw amount is requested via the outlet.  I'm halfway confident you don't know what you're talking about.  

RE-EDIT:  I understand now what you're saying, you're referring to the circuits controlling the outlets inside the breaker box.  I have 3-5 breaker circuits per room rated at 20 amps each, not including the separate circuits for all the lighting in the house that's ceiling mounted.  My house has 2 breaker boxes in the garage, both with 30 circuits each, I'm very confident in their abilities.

Sweet Satoshi, can we please sort out our units of measurement.

A "Watt" (W) is a unit of continuous power. It means Joule (a unit of energy) per second (a unit of time). 1 W power draw is 1 Joule used per second. 1 KW power draw is 1000 J (or 1 KJ) per second. A KiloWatt-Hour is a unit of energy, just like the Joule, but on a different scale. 1 KWh corresponds to the amount of energy used by a 1 KW power draw for a duration of 1 hour. A device that uses 100 W, will consume 2.4 KWh in a day.

You mean KWh.

You mean KWh. Also, for reference, the average US household uses about 900 KWh per month. Or 30 per day. You're 3-5 times the average US household. Are you sure you don't already have a mining operation running?

You mean KW.

Also the number is unlikely for a single computer unless it has a high end CPU (overclocked!), (at least) 3 high end GPUs and several harddisks all being stressed to their maximum as well as several large monitors. And even then it's unlikely. A typical high end machine with a single GPU uses 300-400W when both CPU and GPU are fully loaded (which rarely happens with normal use).

You mean KWh.

1200 KWh per day is more than the average US household uses in a month.


Assuming the above is correct, then I do wonder what you were smoking when you came up with these requirements when your house was built. You don't design for a daily capacity that exceeds the national average monthly consumption without a good reason, I would guess.

WTH....Either your house is designed to grow weeb or you already have a substantial ammount of mining equipment because that means an average 1 story house has

• 3 Bedrooms
• 1.5 Bath
• Living Room
• Kitchen
• Diningroom
• Outdoor Power Front
• Outdoor Power Rear
• Washer
• Dryer
• Stove

Now let's break this down you have 2 breaker boxes with 30 circuits each thats 60 circuits.
You're telling me you have 1200 amps coming into your house right now?
If not let's break it down by room
3 Bedrooms * 3*20 Amp Circuits Each=180 Amps

THAT'S MORE THAN MY WHOLE HOUSE!!!!!!!>!>!>!>!>!>!>!>!>>!<#w2MEBEWFYFGYWEAfUIVBUFVAUEGAFGUGBAI

edit: that is only the first thing on that whole list?!?!?!?!

Even tho you have 10 outlets in your room on 1 20 amp breaker doesnt mean they all can use 20 amps....Each breaker has 20 amps to divide between everything on that circuit including lighting and everything else. That's why I only have 1 of my s3's in my room as a heater right now because Even tho I have 4 outlets I only have 15 amps or 1800 watts My GPU's use a huge chunk of that so lets say leaves us with 1200 minus  the 360 watts for a buffer zone minus 355 for my antminer and then that leaves us with 455 Watts to distribute between my TV my speakers my DirecTv box my router my modem my lighting my phone chargers, etc. etc. [/list]

Smells like bs.

I had 9-10th of undervolted s1 and a few s2 and a few s3 and I used 10000kwh a month

Bill was around $700 with 5k kWh @ 0.064 and the rest at 0.068

Mining is barely profitable at 0.064 cost.

I have two 50amp 220v lines into my basement

I am also interested to know what you were smoking, along with where you got it.

Although $.08 per KWH is low, there is cheaper electricity available throughout the country, sometimes as low as .06 for residential customers.

It appears that your profit estimate is gross mining revenue, and does not take into account the electric bill/costs that you will have. Once you take these costs into consideration your net profit will be much less. You also forgot to take into consideration the fact that the difficulty has risen in the past and will likely continue to rise in the future

Just buy bitcoins, with the current price below 300$, it is the most certain way to get a profit.

Your electric is a little bit higher than mine here in Oregon.  Thus far I haven't ROI'd on a single piece of mining equipment so my advice would be to avoid mining altogether.  Granted, your results probably won't be quite as bad as mine as a large # of the more bogus asic manufacturers are getting shaken out everyday but I seriously doubt you'll get out of it what you put in at this point regardless of who you decide to go with.

Buy and Hold probably your best strategy honestly but that is also hella risky right now.

Invest in BTC or altcurrencies, which will raise faster in value than BTC.