Bitcoin Forum

Hello All,
This idea came to my some time ago and i'm working on it. Now its time to get some feedback from who might use it.

Its not a hyip, nor a pyramid not even a ponzi. You might lose all your investment (need to say this) and i'm not promising any 100% interest daily.

What do you think of an real world investment fund where you'll use your btc's to invest on? As i can't buy real stocks with btc it would be currency convertible (EUR).

What btc world would gain from it? Extra income (thats why we are here). Being currency convertible i'll have to buy btcs form market (planning to use intersango and btc-e, but I’m opened to suggestions), meaning that the volume might increase.
Deposits/payouts could also be done using paypal, but that’s not the point.

Would you trust yout btcs to someone that you don’t know? (Will provide monthly bank statement)  How much would you invest on this kind of project?
If i get possible investor, i'll open a new topic with full disclaimer and terms.
If you want to participate or have any idea that could help this project please let me know.
Thanks for your time.
AG

I feel like your securities transactions fees and taxes will be a small challenge. watching :)

All fees and legal taxes will be supported by me (part of my involvement on the fund). Thats to say... your income will be free of charge (as btc is)

what sectors would you fund be invested in likely?

no 100% interest daily?  ::)

ETFs (energy, material (raw), services.
CFDs (index)
Stocks - Portuguese Market - The one i know better.
Medium/long term bank deposits (some safe money and faster for payouts)

nop... sorry... as i don't want to run away with your btc i won't offer super-fantastic rates :)

Heh. Well, I prefer low rates to negative ones, so this is certainly a plus. ;D

I'm mildly interested. This would be awesome if I were certain you know what you're doing. But determining that will be hard. Maybe make some speculative posts or investments with small amounts to demonstrate returns, and we'll see again in a few months. Oh, and of course the usual anti-scam investigations; be prepared for a lot of them after the current Ponzi party ends.

Generally, I think Bitcoin really needs some serious investment businesses. That might also help greatly in organizing and funding Bitcoin-related business projects.

I hope i know what i'm doing :P At least i studied for that ( degree in business administration and currently enrolled in an MBA degree with a specialization in finance, which will end in December this year.
Regarding the anti-scam, I’ll gladly answer (public or privately) any question users/invertors might have.
As I can’t promise any interest rate, I’m not going to state any, I’ll just say that I want to distribute profit quarterly (+/- 70% of the profit).

In 2008 i've started a fund (with my own funds) and kept a record of it...

http://pginvest.com/?page_id=33

The password is "nav"

it was only stocks from PSI-20 stocks, the Portuguese Stock Market index.

The biggest issue I have with something like this is that the funds you invest in the fiat currency could see decent to really good return, but the value in BTC of the asset we would invest in could still go down if the price of BTC rises.

I think it still has a role in the larger investing market, and may be a decent way to hedge BTC value drops.

I have to agree regarding the btc price rise, that why i thought about the paypal or even wire transfer. But, as i would have to trade Eur to btc, if you change it back you can have nearly the same value.

That's not a problem.  If you believe BTC will outpace other investments, then you have no reason to invest in other investments to start with.  If you believe in diversification of your investments (i.e. not putting 100% of your funds into BTC), then you shouldn't have a problem with some of your investments (a fund like this) being outperformed by others (BTC).

It sounds like you are offering to act as broker-dealer, ... a regulated activity in most jurisdictions.  Here's an example of where a Portugese financial organization got spanked by the U.S. SEC for soliciting and brokering investment products to those in the U.S.:

 - http://www.sec.gov/news/press/2011/2011-221.htm



Or perhaps you are forming an entity and seeking investment monies which that entity will use to invest?  If so, then your MBA eduction would necessarily cover the structure of legal entities ... either limited liability company (LLC) or commercial companies / corporations.

Though you've already revealed an identity (from pginvest) it is likely you have not already formed one of these legal entities.  Is this the approach you were considering though?

Yes i don't have any problem to reveal my identity, as i'm not planning to scam anyone. That was a good research ;).

No I’m not planning to have a llc, (Lda in Portuguese jurisdiction).
What I’m planning to offer is a fund managed by me with no legal jurisdiction, this causes you just to trust me as you won’t be legal protected.
If I was planning to do some llc, i would have to invest a sum of money that I cannot afford and have a corporation structure that for what I’m planning to do is completely insane. Moreover under the Portuguese regulation, I would have to wait years (bureaucracy) to have fund approved.
And I don’t think that SEC would accept BTC as a funding option.

he he :)
This project will be so legal as bitcoin is... but a little more risky as it envolved real world currency and financial services

I've looked at doing something along these lines, with either stocks or real estate.   The securities regulations (at least in the US) make the deal all but a non-starter in the case of stocks; fluctuations in the BTC exchange rate pose a real challenge for the latter.  Real estate tends to be a nearly fixed income investment (or more precisely, an investment with a "fixed ceiling" since every quarter will have variable costs from maintenance, taxes, vacancies, etc.) and trying to pay out that income in a fixed BTC rate can only be accomplished by making that rate very low, and having a year-end "profit share" payment from accrued payouts.   

It's a real challenge, but one which I personally think is very important to address.   Bitcoin can't live forever as a nerd science project; getting it into legitimate commercial and investment channels is one of the keys to getting real legs under the currency.


Frank

I'll try to do it quarterly, as some ETF pay dividends quarterly.


If this project goes live and gets some critical income its a possibility to try to make it real legal, but for the upcoming times i don't intend to...

I wish you best of luck with it, especially if you have experience with the  Portugese markets.  I've been looking at doing something with real estate very closely, because I already own real estate on my own, have needed legal and technical support in place for that kind of thing, am always scanning the market  where I work and I have a good "feel" for it etc.    "Local feel" -- eg. Portugese stocks, panhandle Florida real estate, etc. -- is something that could bring real value to the table for Bitcoin users and investors.  Regardless of how dire the overall economy might seem, there is always  money being made somewhere, at something.  A global, geo-neutral currency and community such as Bitcoin conveys a distinct advantage to its members inasmuch as it allows members around the world to see where those pockets are, both in terms of geography and market sector. 


Frank

I'm so excited for bitcoin's economy :)

This could be a good investment. Depends how you plan to hedge the risk of bitcoin appreciation.

What would be nice is if a bitcoin company ever lists on a stock exchange somewhere.

What is the possibility of doing so in Portugal ?

tell me what kind of real investment fund can have a annual ROI of 60%~100%.

Somebody should set up an investment fund the other way to allow participation in bitcoin via the normal stock exchange. That could bring a huge pile of money into the system and into the pockets of whoever does it first.

Well, again, brokerages are a regulated activity.  I don't know what would stop a brokerage from accepting bitcoin as a funding method, but for now, none do.

There have been some developments though.

BitcoinOPX plans to offer options (only as cash-settlement / Contracts-For-Difference):
 - http://www.bitcoinopx.com

Listed, however, are options markets for stocks like GOOG, FB, AMXN, etc.

List a company in Portuguese stock market is... very expensive, some thousand dolars, lawyers, fixed structure... i can't do it and furthermore, bitcoin needed to be legal 

Scams, ponzi, they might...
Or investment funds runed by retirement plans (the ones with money today at least in USA) that can "manipulate" market

I've created an online survey so you an give me a better feedback.

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/FJ3FZYB

please give me 2 minutes of your time an answer it :)
Thanks