Bitcoin Forum

Economy => Trading Discussion => Topic started by: stellar1 on January 17, 2015, 06:42:09 AM



Title: Can I hold a short position for months or years ?
Post by: stellar1 on January 17, 2015, 06:42:09 AM
Can I hold a short position in BTC vs any other for months or years ? Please restrict to top five exchanges only as liquidity alone defines an exchange.

Thank you


Title: Re: Can I hold a short position for months or years ?
Post by: seabass1985 on January 17, 2015, 12:11:20 PM
No one know the for sure future in anything having to do with these kinds of markets.  All I can tell you is that it has seemed to me that there is always a drop in the winter months and then in spring going into summer it picks back up again but who's to say how much. Good Luck God Bless.


Title: Re: Can I hold a short position for months or years ?
Post by: 98problems on January 18, 2015, 06:01:26 AM
Can I hold a short position in BTC vs any other for months or years ? Please restrict to top five exchanges only as liquidity alone defines an exchange.

Thank you
Yes you can however it would most likely not be economical to do so. When you are short bitcoin you are effectively borrowing it in order to sell it on an exchange. You would then repay the loan when you cover your position.

If you were to hold the position for years (or months) then you would need to pay interest on that borrowed bitcoin the entire time. The only way this would be economical for you is if the price were to steadily and evenly decline over the period that you held the position


Title: Re: Can I hold a short position for months or years ?
Post by: Agestorzrxx on January 18, 2015, 09:39:42 AM
Can I hold a short position in BTC vs any other for months or years ? Please restrict to top five exchanges only as liquidity alone defines an exchange.

Thank you
Just hold for years.
You will have a suprise ;D ;D ;D


Title: Re: Can I hold a short position for months or years ?
Post by: seen369 on January 18, 2015, 10:09:13 AM
Can I hold a short position in BTC vs any other for months or years ? Please restrict to top five exchanges only as liquidity alone defines an exchange.

Thank you
Just hold for years.
You will have a suprise ;D ;D ;D


Why you smile? Maybe the price will increase up to the sky....And he got a lot of money.


Title: Re: Can I hold a short position for months or years ?
Post by: stellar1 on January 18, 2015, 10:45:07 AM
Can I hold a short position in BTC vs any other for months or years ? Please restrict to top five exchanges only as liquidity alone defines an exchange.

Thank you
Just hold for years.
You will have a suprise ;D ;D ;D


Holding for the last few years has been extremely profitable (to who ever has been holding them)...next few years too early to guess...but smart traders may know when to begin fresh positions.

Thanks


Title: Re: Can I hold a short position for months or years ?
Post by: coinpeep on January 21, 2015, 03:53:03 AM
The best way to do this would be to use a futures platform like icbit/orderbook or bitmex.
Sell the longest dated future they have.


Title: Re: Can I hold a short position for months or years ?
Post by: findftp on January 21, 2015, 12:04:47 PM
Can I hold a short position in BTC vs any other for months or years ? Please restrict to top five exchanges only as liquidity alone defines an exchange.

Thank you

You could passively short bitcoin by just not buy them or sell everything for cash and wait.


Title: Re: Can I hold a short position for months or years ?
Post by: Johnbbb on January 23, 2015, 12:31:07 PM
Yes, off course you could do that but its quite risky especially if you are unaware of bitcoin rapidly changing value!


Title: Re: Can I hold a short position for months or years ?
Post by: seen369 on January 23, 2015, 08:43:41 PM
Can I hold a short position in BTC vs any other for months or years ? Please restrict to top five exchanges only as liquidity alone defines an exchange.

Thank you
Just hold for years.
You will have a suprise ;D ;D ;D


Holding for the last few years has been extremely profitable (to who ever has been holding them)...next few years too early to guess...but smart traders may know when to begin fresh positions.

Thanks

So maybe you will be a smart trader and tell to us, when they begin? ;)


Title: Re: Can I hold a short position for months or years ?
Post by: KizerWilhelm on January 23, 2015, 08:46:38 PM
Can I hold a short position in BTC vs any other for months or years ? Please restrict to top five exchanges only as liquidity alone defines an exchange.

Thank you
Just hold for years.
You will have a suprise ;D ;D ;D


Holding for the last few years has been extremely profitable (to who ever has been holding them)...next few years too early to guess...but smart traders may know when to begin fresh positions.

Thanks

So maybe you will be a smart trader and tell to us, when they begin? ;)

Yeah, and also tell us, which exchanges, are not to be closed in next 5 years ;D


Title: Re: Can I hold a short position for months or years ?
Post by: Cicero69 on January 23, 2015, 08:50:37 PM
I think that this is not a good idea. You can't enough profit on it, but you can lose all your money.


Title: Re: Can I hold a short position for months or years ?
Post by: tmfp on January 23, 2015, 08:51:18 PM
Just use a derivative to sell short.
Also, if you want to hold coins for actual practical use, i.e. spending, but not be vulnerable to losing against their $ value, then you can use derivatives that way too, "hedging".
 


Title: Re: Can I hold a short position for months or years ?
Post by: stellar1 on January 24, 2015, 08:13:52 AM
The best way to do this would be to use a futures platform like icbit/orderbook or bitmex.
Sell the longest dated future they have.

Thanks BITMEX is the only exchange I could find. If any more please let me know.

@tmfp Thanks for your advice....great for holders of BTC.


Title: Re: Can I hold a short position for months or years ?
Post by: seen369 on January 24, 2015, 04:21:51 PM
Just use a derivative to sell short.
Also, if you want to hold coins for actual practical use, i.e. spending, but not be vulnerable to losing against their $ value, then you can use derivatives that way too, "hedging".
 

All this options is to dangerous to use them, be ready to lose, and do not invest more than you can lose...


Title: Re: Can I hold a short position for months or years ?
Post by: Cicero69 on January 24, 2015, 04:44:45 PM
Just use a derivative to sell short.
Also, if you want to hold coins for actual practical use, i.e. spending, but not be vulnerable to losing against their $ value, then you can use derivatives that way too, "hedging".
 

All this options is to dangerous to use them, be ready to lose, and do not invest more than you can lose...

Yes, now i am reading different topics at bitcointalk, and i can see that now, it is not a good time to start work with BTC, i think better now wait and watch at the market.


Title: Re: Can I hold a short position for months or years ?
Post by: seen369 on January 25, 2015, 11:51:14 AM
Just use a derivative to sell short.
Also, if you want to hold coins for actual practical use, i.e. spending, but not be vulnerable to losing against their $ value, then you can use derivatives that way too, "hedging".
 

All this options is to dangerous to use them, be ready to lose, and do not invest more than you can lose...

Yes, now i am reading different topics at bitcointalk, and i can see that now, it is not a good time to start work with BTC, i think better now wait and watch at the market.

So, you are late on 4 years to have good start)) And what are you want to wait?


Title: Re: Can I hold a short position for months or years ?
Post by: picolo on January 25, 2015, 01:48:43 PM
Can I hold a short position in BTC vs any other for months or years ? Please restrict to top five exchanges only as liquidity alone defines an exchange.

Thank you

As long as the service is offering you to keep the positoin and there is liquidity you can hold the position but the third party will disapear if Bitcoin goes to zero and you will pay a daily or monthly fee to keep your position.


Title: Re: Can I hold a short position for months or years ?
Post by: pereira4 on January 26, 2015, 02:45:20 AM
Dunno if this has been asked but what are you holding against? if you hold against an altcoin, the altcoin has big % of crashing and dissapearing from the exchange, unless you are putting in in the couple ones that are worth long time , and still a big risk.


Title: Re: Can I hold a short position for months or years ?
Post by: BTCjust on January 28, 2015, 06:31:53 AM
yes, you can.

and good luck with you  ;)


Title: Re: Can I hold a short position for months or years ?
Post by: mtwelve on January 29, 2015, 04:11:36 PM
If we take last year charts for example and sold at $800 you could have held that $800 (equiv. to one BTC) at beginning of year and could have made out with four BTC by the end. IF you rode the waves you could have made/lost potentially more.


Title: Re: Can I hold a short position for months or years ?
Post by: chaosknight on January 29, 2015, 04:24:27 PM
yes you can hold them for months/years
but make sure you are trading with legit and reputable companies that will not run with your money


Title: Re: Can I hold a short position for months or years ?
Post by: mtwelve on January 29, 2015, 04:49:04 PM
like bitfinex :D


Title: Re: Can I hold a short position for months or years ?
Post by: tmfp on January 29, 2015, 05:04:20 PM
yes you can hold them for months/years
but make sure you are trading with legit and reputable companies that will not run with your money

Depends what country you are in, but in the UK you can trade a BTC 'tracker' derivative with fiat margin off exchange, no need for wallet, transfers etc. on long established multi million backed platforms.

Search CFD (contract for difference) trading.


Title: Re: Can I hold a short position for months or years ?
Post by: stellar1 on January 30, 2015, 06:47:59 AM
yes you can hold them for months/years
but make sure you are trading with legit and reputable companies that will not run with your money

Depends what country you are in, but in the UK you can trade a BTC 'tracker' derivative with fiat margin off exchange, no need for wallet, transfers etc. on long established multi million backed platforms.

Search CFD (contract for difference) trading.

The problem with CFDs are they are mostly run by market makers most of whom are not known to be scruplous. I don't know of a CFD operator that correctly publishes their current volume and if the contracts you are trading does have good volume then yes, fine for short term holding; for long term they tend to apply all sorts of charges.

Correct my impression of CFD operators if outdated or not correct.

Thanks


Title: Re: Can I hold a short position for months or years ?
Post by: tmfp on January 30, 2015, 11:04:46 AM
yes you can hold them for months/years
but make sure you are trading with legit and reputable companies that will not run with your money

Depends what country you are in, but in the UK you can trade a BTC 'tracker' derivative with fiat margin off exchange, no need for wallet, transfers etc. on long established multi million backed platforms.

Search CFD (contract for difference) trading.

The problem with CFDs are they are mostly run by market makers most of whom are not known to be scruplous. I don't know of a CFD operator that correctly publishes their current volume and if the contracts you are trading does have good volume then yes, fine for short term holding; for long term they tend to apply all sorts of charges.

Correct my impression of CFD operators if outdated or not correct.

Thanks

I hear what you're saying.
The CFD industry (which I'm certainly not shilling for) has been around for 40 years now and a big player like IG has a market cap of 2.6 billion and is publicly listed. They took a 25 million hit on the recent Swiss Franc black swan and shrugged it off, whereas one or two smaller outfits went to the wall.
I guess the lesson is to use the big guys, despite a natural inclination to support smaller ventures.
Sure, there are costs of holding long term positions, but that's the nature of things. It depends on personal factors whether you think the overall package is worth the cost.
I'm a full time short term trader and some of the things I see them do, stop hunting etc. irritate me, but then I remind myself that I'm dealing with a bookmaker.
Volume disclosure is only important to me for trading analysis and I get that from the underlying asset stats.
They make reasonable spreads 24/7 and I am not big enough to see any liquidity problems.
Also, the tax situation is clean and simple.
Spread betting (as opposed to CFD) profits are tax exempt, although losses aren't allowable.

TL:DR
Derivative trading is simple and can be useful where the underlying asset (like bitcoin) infrastructure is opaque. Trade with the big guys, keep your wits about you and remember, as they all say  "losses can exceed your deposit".


Title: Re: Can I hold a short position for months or years ?
Post by: stellar1 on January 30, 2015, 04:51:26 PM
yes you can hold them for months/years
but make sure you are trading with legit and reputable companies that will not run with your money

Depends what country you are in, but in the UK you can trade a BTC 'tracker' derivative with fiat margin off exchange, no need for wallet, transfers etc. on long established multi million backed platforms.

Search CFD (contract for difference) trading.

The problem with CFDs are they are mostly run by market makers most of whom are not known to be scruplous. I don't know of a CFD operator that correctly publishes their current volume and if the contracts you are trading does have good volume then yes, fine for short term holding; for long term they tend to apply all sorts of charges.

Correct my impression of CFD operators if outdated or not correct.

Thanks

I hear what you're saying.
The CFD industry (which I'm certainly not shilling for) has been around for 40 years now and a big player like IG has a market cap of 2.6 billion and is publicly listed. They took a 25 million hit on the recent Swiss Franc black swan and shrugged it off, whereas one or two smaller outfits went to the wall.
I guess the lesson is to use the big guys, despite a natural inclination to support smaller ventures.
Sure, there are costs of holding long term positions, but that's the nature of things. It depends on personal factors whether you think the overall package is worth the cost.
I'm a full time short term trader and some of the things I see them do, stop hunting etc. irritate me, but then I remind myself that I'm dealing with a bookmaker.
Volume disclosure is only important to me for trading analysis and I get that from the underlying asset stats.
They make reasonable spreads 24/7 and I am not big enough to see any liquidity problems.
Also, the tax situation is clean and simple.
Spread betting (as opposed to CFD) profits are tax exempt, although losses aren't allowable.

TL:DR
Derivative trading is simple and can be useful where the underlying asset (like bitcoin) infrastructure is opaque. Trade with the big guys, keep your wits about you and remember, as they all say  "losses can exceed your deposit".

Thanks for the advice. I will definitely look at IG. I am also looking at BitMEX but I guess they need to mature a bit.


Title: Re: Can I hold a short position for months or years ?
Post by: b!z on January 30, 2015, 07:45:33 PM
It's called "short" for a reason lol


Title: Re: Can I hold a short position for months or years ?
Post by: picolo on January 31, 2015, 09:27:46 AM
yes you can hold them for months/years
but make sure you are trading with legit and reputable companies that will not run with your money

Depends what country you are in, but in the UK you can trade a BTC 'tracker' derivative with fiat margin off exchange, no need for wallet, transfers etc. on long established multi million backed platforms.

Search CFD (contract for difference) trading.

The problem with CFDs are they are mostly run by market makers most of whom are not known to be scruplous. I don't know of a CFD operator that correctly publishes their current volume and if the contracts you are trading does have good volume then yes, fine for short term holding; for long term they tend to apply all sorts of charges.

Correct my impression of CFD operators if outdated or not correct.

Thanks

I hear what you're saying.
The CFD industry (which I'm certainly not shilling for) has been around for 40 years now and a big player like IG has a market cap of 2.6 billion and is publicly listed. They took a 25 million hit on the recent Swiss Franc black swan and shrugged it off, whereas one or two smaller outfits went to the wall.
I guess the lesson is to use the big guys, despite a natural inclination to support smaller ventures.
Sure, there are costs of holding long term positions, but that's the nature of things. It depends on personal factors whether you think the overall package is worth the cost.
I'm a full time short term trader and some of the things I see them do, stop hunting etc. irritate me, but then I remind myself that I'm dealing with a bookmaker.
Volume disclosure is only important to me for trading analysis and I get that from the underlying asset stats.
They make reasonable spreads 24/7 and I am not big enough to see any liquidity problems.
Also, the tax situation is clean and simple.
Spread betting (as opposed to CFD) profits are tax exempt, although losses aren't allowable.

TL:DR
Derivative trading is simple and can be useful where the underlying asset (like bitcoin) infrastructure is opaque. Trade with the big guys, keep your wits about you and remember, as they all say  "losses can exceed your deposit".

Thanks for the informations. IG is bigger and stronger but it could disapear overnight too.


Title: Re: Can I hold a short position for months or years ?
Post by: tmfp on January 31, 2015, 09:49:49 AM
Thanks for the informations. IG is bigger and stronger but it could disapear overnight too.

Sure, but your money is at risk anytime it's not under your mattress (and then, your bedroom could catch fire :) ).
I don't want to sound like I'm trying to sell anything, but read this as part of your due dilligence before making any decisions.

http://www.ig.com/uk/client-funds

Disclaimer:
I have no financial interest in IG or any other CFD provider, apart from using their services with caution.


Title: Re: Can I hold a short position for months or years ?
Post by: picolo on January 31, 2015, 11:16:28 AM
Thanks for the informations. IG is bigger and stronger but it could disapear overnight too.

Sure, but your money is at risk anytime it's not under your mattress (and then, your bedroom could catch fire :) ).
I don't want to sound like I'm trying to sell anything, but read this as part of your due dilligence before making any decisions.

http://www.ig.com/uk/client-funds

Disclaimer:
I have no financial interest in IG or any other CFD provider, apart from using their services with caution.

When your money is under your matress you risk to lose value as the money supply is inflated.


Title: Re: Can I hold a short position for months or years ?
Post by: tigerwood0432 on January 31, 2015, 04:09:00 PM
Of course you can . Try okcoin , you can trade btc and ltc futures with 20x leverage , you can short it for a maximum 4 months position without ANY daily fees (only opening trade commission) . If you want to short it for years , then each 4 months =profits delivery , than re-open a short.


okcoin tutorial beginners guide : http://okcoin-tutorial-begginers-guide.blogspot.de/


Regards


Title: Re: Can I hold a short position for months or years ?
Post by: picolo on February 03, 2015, 02:36:31 PM
Of course you can . Try okcoin , you can trade btc and ltc futures with 20x leverage , you can short it for a maximum 4 months position without ANY daily fees (only opening trade commission) . If you want to short it for years , then each 4 months =profits delivery , than re-open a short.


okcoin tutorial beginners guide : http://okcoin-tutorial-begginers-guide.blogspot.de/


Regards

When you use futures, you don't have to pay daily fees.


Title: Re: Can I hold a short position for months or years ?
Post by: skinbrake on February 03, 2015, 04:40:55 PM
I think holding your position for the long term is about the best bet right now in the Bitcoin market.