Bitcoin Forum

http://www.btcdice.com/static/btc_dice_sm.png
BTCDice is now open to the public!  

http://btcdice.com (http://btcdice.com)

BTCDice is a lucky number Bitcoin betting site with up to 64,000x payout and an expected return of 98+%. The house pays out on every bet, win or lose.

To play, place a bet to one of our game addresses and wait for a return transaction. Most transactions are returned within just a couple seconds.  The house uses highly interconnected nodes with more than 800 connections, each, to the bitcoin network in order to maintain the fastest possible payments and transaction detection.

If you win, you'll get (your bet * the game multiplier) - house cut and 0.0005 transaction fee. If you lose, you'll get ((0.005 * your bet) - house cut), or 0.00000001, whichever is larger.

The house does NOT require confirmations before sending back your winnings, except on bets that are above the max or below the minimum bet for the game.

In order to play, you must be using a wallet that allows you to receive coins back to the same address you send them from.

To see how it works, try sending a 0.01 BTC bet to 1BTCDiceLs79syendE1DM1XCaHcKkzBNnP which is our game address that has a 73.2422% chance to win, and pays out 1.365x your bet.

At the time of posting this, BTCDice offers higher payouts and lower house percentages than SatoshiDICE.

We support a full JSON API for looking up transactions, addresses and games, to make writing software to interface with our platform easy.

Moved and whitelisted.

another satoshi dice :)

I hate to be this guy, but your website is nearly a clone of SD as is the game.
Good luck but may i suggest employing some originality.

Adding to my list under pending.

Thank you.
Competition in a free market is a good thing.

This is completely true, SD has suffered several outages and if you play your cards right you will be there to fill the needs of the gamers next outage ;)

I don't know if I should be telling you this or not, but you calculated your payouts (https://i.imgur.com/SW5P9.png) wrongly.  In some of the games your house edge is negative.

You made 2 mistakes:

1) you pay out 0.5% on losing bets, which you don't take into consideration
2) you need to multiply by 0.98, not subtract 0.04 to get a 2% house edge

Look at your "lessthan 2" bet for instance.  I have a 1-in-32768 chance of winning, and when I win I get 32767.96x.  When I lose I get 0.5%.

If you ignore the 0.5% for losing, the house edge is 100-(100*32767.96/32768) = 0.0001%.

But when you take the 0.5% for losing into account too, the house edge goes down to 100-(100*(32767.96 + 32767*0.005)/32768) = -0.49986%.

ie. you're losing 0.5% of each bet in the long term.

Here are the correct house edge details for each bet:


I only noticed this because of how close your payout on under 48000 is to SatoshiDice's payout.

And here are the correct payouts to make the house edge really be 2%:

Good to see Dooglus yet again helping out site admins :) 

Thank you for the notice.  I would hate to have lost a bunch of BTC over the long run.
I've corrected the issue.

House edge has been reduced to 1.8% to stay competitive.

Place your bets! (http://btcdice.com)

 ;D

:-)

Where does it end!

I have another update that is sure to make users happy!  ;D

• Reduced house percent to %1.65.
• Increased Max Bet to 100 BTC on less than 48000, 32768, 32000, and 24000 games.
• Increased Max Bet to 50 BTC on less than 24000 and 16000 games.

Have Fun and Good Luck! (http://btcdice.com)

You run the same risk as anybody using your site.  You can very easily go bankrupt.  I've done some simulations of SatotshiDice and despite a house edge of 1.5% in a nontrival number of runs SatotshiDice goes bankrupt (most of the time the gambler goes bankrupt).  I didn't take into account the reduction of the max bet or the increase of the house edge which is what SatoshiDice used to counter this problem.

You are also risking legal problems.  Where I live (Massachusetts, United States) this is illegal.  The creator of SatoshiDice actually sold his site to someone else to avoid this risk.

It appears that you aren't taking extremely necessary precautions to protect you from losing all of your money. You have no idea how much work SatoshiDice put into protecting themselves behind-the-scenes. If you can't figure out the problem I'm referring to, you should shut down your site now and give up.

Hmm - my bet for PI bitcoins hasn't paid out yet...

http://btcdice.com/details.html?q=10060

too much pi in the system? :)

Will

That is funny. 
I am tracking down a bug that is missing a few bets.  Sorry about that.

Your payment has been paid.

http://blockchain.info/tx-index/13014010/426d5e4ca8eda0ad597d7ccd780421c24e5bcc34343785d6451076a9924929b0

Good Luck!

wish I had started playing before douglas had anything to say.

only played one round, I'm up .03 btc.  good enough.

Nice clone.  (satoshidice.net is a bad clone- reports of not paying out.)

Anyone else having issues when sending payments with sendmany?

I sent this transaction: https://blockchain.info/tx-index/13069740/d865f6929497516968ccb1bee9f8df1d5e47254f23c3dabdce23ed0fc9722279?show_adv=true
Which contains 5 payments of 0.2.

The corresponding transaction on BTCDice is this: http://btcdice.com/details.html?q=11435 which is showing as I only paid 0.2 BTC total.

Am I going insane or is it bugged?

EDIT: The same here: https://blockchain.info/tx-index/13071789/61f162635b21bd6b3275f85447f48dd314460e44dc7d297e62fde63fd60493b4?show_adv=true

3 payments of 0.2BTC in 1 transaction but again only a single payment shown on BTCDice: http://btcdice.com/details.html?q=11457

I looked at transactions and see the problem. You sent multiple payment to the same bet address in the same transaction which main client does not support, and I do not support due to potential double-spend attack. The server only supports main client functionality. I will send back your whole bets as good faith gesture and in the future you must send single bet per address in each sendmany.

EDIT:
Return payments
6fdad206bafd83dc8fe0236bd304d6faf4d939eb44933d4fdabcc861bbbee6eb
35269a5316f7549fae470b62bae1b17f414a8262b63063a90592ca3de76cba17

Ah I'm sorry about that, I wasn't aware. Thanks for refunding them.

You pay back really fast! I placed 10 bets and had already got back 8 payments before I could finish placing the 10th!

I think I'm going to bet here from now on.  ;D

Cool, another "Satoshi Dice", going to bet here from now ;D

Edit: Won a bet, but nothing back :-[
http://btcdice.com/details.html?q=15028

Edit 2: Got the payment now! :D
Just a 10 minute delay :P

seems I have bad luck getting my bets paid out - I have another one unpaid now... http://btcdice.com/details.html?q=15934 - do you have to manually poke these when they go wrong?

Cheers,

Will

Sometimes it is a bit slow for me. Payments sometimes 40 to 50 minutes later.

Does evoorhees not own SD anymore?

I think evoorhees is the "someone else" in the above sentence, not "the creator".  i.e. he bought it, not sold it.

I didn't know that... I that erik was the creator (with fireduck being the technical), I think he is in the US too.

Good to know.

I'm not sure either.  But I remember a thread where the creator of a dice site posted "I'm having to sell my site because it's too successful".  I think he was worried about the legal implications of running a successful but unlicensed gambling site, and I think that site is what became SatoshiDice.  I'll try to dig up the old thread and will put the URL here if I'm successful.

Edit: I can't find the thread.

Is the site down ? bets not get posted or returned.

I just placed a bet and got a return in just a few seconds. So, I guess it's fixed now?

Yah, depends on the state. 

This would be classified as a 'commercial casino', 20 states allow those.  You may need a license of some sort.

Also then have to go to the online gambling laws, UIGEA 'prohibits gambling businesses from knowingly accepting payments in connection with the participation of another person in a bet or wager that involves the use of the Internet and that is unlawful under any federal or state law.'

'While some states have specific laws prohibiting online gambling, many do not. Additionally, in order for an online gaming company to start, a license from the state is required. No states currently give out online gambling licenses.'

anyway, this will probably change soon, esp. with pokerstars paying out for the fraud full tilt site

I have transactions that just aren't going through, and if I search my address those transactions just don't show up.  But the Bitcoin definitely sent.

https://blockchain.info/tx-index/15959922/2d66fab44e4e2c18caf0ffa9702e0f02db275fc9b8ae4b5a89a00dca7e02f7ef
https://blockchain.info/tx-index/15959001/661806842f9555b7b5c0fef37adfaef0b109f3422c34b97c987de5059b9aacaa

Are two out of the 5 turns I've taken so far.  I fear continuing  :-\

Edit:
I was just impatient but it does seem to take awhile sometimes, actually it seems like it happens every other roll.

I've tried with the system based on math:

I found someone other tried the same system:

The system is simple. You bet 1, if you lose, you bet 2, if you lose you bet 4, etc. If this dice game would be based on 100% math, you will earn. I'm not sure, but it looks like interference in math rules. I understand if it's protection, but it should be noticed on main site. Just beware. :-)

This is called the martingale system and you need to be careful when betting small amounts on the dice game or you can actually end up in the hole because of TX fees.

Also your bolded statement is false... you may have some good runs, but you will run into the max bet sooner or later and be unable to recover.

Due to recent hosting provider outages affecting the host I have decided to take the game down until better reliable hosting can be setup. I expect only a day or two of downtime max.

Where was it hosted?

Is it broken today? I placed a bet a few hours ago and no response.

works for me

Will

New provider is working with back bets have been processed and everything stable for past 48 hours.

Place your bets!  ;D

I've tried again and:

Less than 32000 = 48.8281% chance to win. Sorry, maybe I'm wrong, but BTCDice.com smells for me.

When secret is available for your bet, you can calculate yourself and see it is acting normal.

Sorry you lose, but system is perfectly fair and working normal.

Read this to understand more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binomial_distribution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binomial_distribution)

Simply, each bet has 48.8281% chance of win, but next bet is not changed based on outcome of prior bet, or future bet. So you lose each one because each one has 51.1719% chance of lose and because you lose one doesn't mean you win next. Your luck is bad.

The odds of losing all 9 bets is 1 in 416.  It's unlikely, but not impossible.

BTCDice looks crashed at the moment. I made a bet, but without response and no log on recent bets.

I had delay while making reboot on back end for maintenance. All bets are processed now.

Can you explain how this formula works? I didn't get the same result using the formula.

Divide 1 (individual roll) by the probability of win per roll (51.1719% or 0.511719, based on address of bet) and power of number of total rolls equal the likely chance of probability that all rolls will result in a singular answer, inverse to probability of win (ie: all will lose).

And it's again the same as before - made a bet, and isn't on recent bets logs. Again no BTC back, even 0.00000001 as confirmation. Don't place bets, upon admin solve it.

Can you please show us the Transaction ID? ;)

Just place a test (for example 0.001) bet and you'll see.

Test TX: https://blockchain.info/tx-index/62fbe97b8d6473bce8320ef7fa5d6f62439afe3551c67fe20160ece05c2be5a9

Not shown in the BTCDice history and no BTC back.

System was down while I make some speed improvements on back end. It now back on and all bet have processed.

I confirm. All previous bets have been processed and back to wallet. :-)

EDIT: But system/transactions are much slower now. What's more - site is again crashed and doesn't work. EDIT: It works now.

Placed a bet and doesn't show in "Recent Bets" and no BTC back :(

Edit: Back after 2 hours ;D

Sorry for delay. Was supposed to be down for less than few minute, but had issue that made take a long time to bring back up.

https://i.imgur.com/7M2zy.png

You can bet now from My Wallet service on BlockChain.Info (http://www.blockchain.info) to BTC Dice (http://www.btcdice.com)!

Lots of thanks to BlockChain.Info for support!

Website was offline due from provider having outage, but bets were still process during outage.
Website is now online.

Added long polling API support to query for recent bet:

Thanks for adding the long polling! And I just noticed the fadeout stuff on the site. It looks good! *thumbs up*  :D

Thank you

I'm performing update on bitcoind and site is offline. Will be on soon.

Update done. Back online.

I just bet 1 btc on this one:

less than 16000    1BTCDiceVit4ZoX62ksdLCbD3fsUww1hX6       24.4141%    4.064x    1.650%    98.35%    0.0010    50.0000    203.0000

which states it has a multiplier of 4.064x ..

and I only got back 3.996444 btc ...

if i do my calculations  1 x 4.064 = 4.064 - 0.0005 (txfee) = 4.0635  ..

is my math wrong?

Minus the house percent.

I thought the house percent already included in the multiplier?  can you explain the real calculation behind the payout?

seeing a 98.35% payout, I thought BTCDice had better payout than SatoshiDice ..
but the same bet at satoshidice:  1btc at the less than 16000 (24.4141%)  gave me 4.00219600 (which is 4.002696 - 0.0005 fee)
so SatoshiDice is actually giving me the multiplier displayed in the table minus txfee
see this one:
http://www.satoshidice.com/full.php?tx=51c6edd2e6ba5d459bf527912f77ce088bad85b305454417c4588b33a7f42257
yet on BTCDice this is what i got:
http://btcdice.com/details.html?q=38368


 

Multiplier is calculated by (65536 / Game Lessthan). Previously, that number was rounded down then truncated after 3rd digit, but now it is either rounded up before truncate, or simply truncated.

I take house percentage after multiplier is calculated as doing it other ways (ex. as part of multiplier) are inconsistent in results. Edit: To make clearer, it makes results inconsistent from game to game, or with largely different bet amount, and not always in favor of user.

Satoshidice shows multiplier less the house percent. I show multiplier prior to house percent.

I don't run satoshidice so I can't say how they do their backend maths, but I know payout (housecut, etc) is not consistent from game to game on their site.

Mine is: ((Bet * Multiplier) * (.9835)) - 0.0005

Ah now i see that you have just fixed them to the right number..  so my math was good.. but seems you have just fixed it.. thank you!

Yes, I changed rounding to be more favorable to the user (made it round up where it was rounding down) and changed calculation slightly.

Your help page at http://btcdice.com/howitworks.html says:

If you win, your bet is multiplied by the prize multiplier and that amount is sent back.

But that's not correct.  If you win, your bet is multiplied by the prize multiplier, then the house edge is subtracted, and that amount is sent back.

It would be best if you showed the actual multiplier the user gets.  i.e. take the house edge off the prize multiplier before stating it.  That way people can compare your odds with SD's to easily see which is better odds.

For example, on "lessthan 16000", instead of saying the payout is "4.096x", calculate 4.096*(1-edge/100):


and state that the payout is 4.028x.

That way people can make a direct comparison with SD's quoted multiplier of 4.003x.

Yeah I think your suggestion is the best thing to do....  less confusion! :)

I will update help page, but not going to change math to something inconsistent.

no don't change the math , it's perfect,  hes talking about how the "effective" payout multiplier is written on the game table  ...

so on your "Less than 32768, 50%"  pays 2x minus house percent [ 2 * 0.9835 = 1.967 ]  so in the table you should write 1.967x multiplier
but for the ones that the payout minus house percent give a long decimal number , still use the correct math , but round up the displayed number on the table page.

looks at this comparison table

odd/65536	Even multiplier	Effective multiplier	Displayed multiplier
1	65536	64454.656	64454.656
2	32768	32227.328	32227.328
4	16384	16113.664	16113.664
8	8192	8056.832	8056.832
16	4096	4028.416	4028.416
32	2048	2014.208	2014.208
64	1024	1007.104	1007.104
128	512	503.552	503.552
256	256	251.776	251.776
512	128	125.888	125.888
1000	65.536	64.454656	64.455
1500	43.6906666667	42.969770667	42.970
2000	32.768	32.227328	32.227
3000	21.8453333333	21.4848853333	21.485
4000	16.384	16.113664	16.114
6000	10.9226666667	10.7424426667	10.742
8000	8.192	8.056832	8.057
12000	5.46133333333	5.37122133333	5.371
16000	4.096	4.028416	4.028
24000	2.73066666667	2.68561066667	2.686
32000	2.048	2.014208	2.014
32768	2	1.967	1.967
48000	1.36533333333	1.34280533333	1.343

So for the page aesthetics you can display a rounded effective multiplier to 3 decimals so it looks nice.. but don't change the real math behind the calculation of the payout!

I hope this helps out :)

The payout multipliers you're quoting aren't the payout multipliers you offer.

What you're doing would be like a casino saying "we pay out 38x on a single roulette number" (because that's what they would pay out if the house edge was 0%, but it isn't).

Then someone hits a single number and the casino pays out only 36x.

The player complains "you said 38x but I only got 36x", and you reply "you forgot the house edge!"

What really happens is the casino tells the player "we pay out 36x on single numbers".

That way it's clear what you're getting.

I updated help page to reflect order of operation. The multiplier on the page is what the actual multiplier is.

I give up.

Good. Fight you wont win is not worth fighting.  ;D

Site down. I would like to get bitcoins back to my wallet.

A switch died at the NOC and bets are not process while it is having replacement. It will be fixed very soon.

The only fight that seems to be occurring here is your fight against reality.

Dooglus is one of the sharpest people on here, and his point appears to be valid.  I don't think I can trust a site that operates the way you seem to be operating, and I am pretty sure other potential players here have reached the same conclusion.

Indeed. I PMed BTCdice a whike back about the double commission he was charging compared with satoshidice and the false advertising of a seemingly better rate compared with satoshidice and after a short exchange where I provided similar evidence including matching bets from both BTCdice and satoshidice, and BTCdice stayed in denial and refused to accept my points.

I just stopped using them. Recommend others do too until they fix their payouts or at least accept what both Douglas and I are saying as the truth.

Can provide PM logs if anyone wants.

Will

Im afraid btcdice is no longer welcome on my list until they rectify their payouts.
It seems clear this confusion is to the advantage of the house and quite possibly done on purpose to mislead the player.
I shall update its listing tonight to "SCAM".

btcdice admin, if you decide to correct your payout listing please let me know.

My payout is proper. Only thing not matching to what dooglus said is displayed multiplier (which shows prior to house percent). I updated how it works page to reflect that.

Place a bet, do the math, it is correct.

Anyone who says not correct is not able to do math.

I not run a scam, and it slander for you to say I do.

Example:

Bet transaction: 99b31c20a44827237c1f97341fd3ce3a098d54342b6df14d13647862410e271f
http://www.btcdice.com/details.html?q=51383 (http://www.btcdice.com/details.html?q=51383)

Bet placed for 2 BTC to 50% odds, 2.000x multiplier, 1.65% house percent.

2 * 2.000 = 4
4 * .9835 = 3.934

I pay 3.93350000 in return, which is 98.35% return on a bet of 2, multiplied by 2. Exactly what I display on site.

Your preference to have it display different is not meaning I am scam.

You show a multiplier of 2x payout multiplier and Odds of 50% where in fact it is not.
You say people do not understand maths, I say your grasp of the English language and gambling terms is insufficient.
What you advertise as a "payout multiplier" is not a "payout multiplier".

No casino or game advertises odds and payouts in this manner, for the obvious reason it will confuse the player to the houses advantage.

It is misleading, intentionally or not. What is very clear is that you claim it is a preference and yet I do not see any players requesting payouts to be displayed as such, in fact I cannot envision any scenario where a player would want payouts displayed in such a confusing manner.

If you correct your payouts at a later date, please let me know so I can review and re-add you to the list.

Perhaps SCAM is a to hash label for this issue, I have been considering adding the new category MISLEADING for games in the SCAM/ PENDING list.
Your site is the first to have sufficiently confusing payouts (while still paying out clients) to warrant this..... Well done I guess.

I don't advertise as "payout multiplier", I advertise as "multiplier" and I say quite clear in "How it Works" page that house percent is taken after multiplier is calculated.

I state clearly that return is 98.35%. You look at multiplier and ignore return.

You don't read page, you make judgement without determining whether I mislead or not. You slander me for no reason.

It looks like you've reduced the payout multipliers that are displayed, but not changed the "how it works":

From http://btcdice.com/howitworks.html :


Do you still subtract the house percentage after multiplying by the multiplier?

What about when the player loses?  Do you still subtract the house percentage then too?

Why don't you start your own site, invest your own money and time, and then you can see how much you like it for people to tell you how they think you should run your game.

BTCDice is NOT satoshidice and it very much is not DooglusDice.

Do not complain about my site not displaying something the way you want, when I tell you it is explained clearly in "how it works" page, and then when I am finally forced to change the displayed number because your complaining makes people spread FUD and claim I'm scam, you complain about "how it works" page that you ignored in the first place.

Do you complain because satoshidice says they use magic in their game? Hmmm?

Maybe I should change my entire "How it works" page to "I use magic because Dooglus thinks he owns this game."

I think I would like it just fine.  Constructive feedback is the breakfast of champions.


You changed how it works (building the house edge into the multiplier, rather than quoting a higher multiplier and then subtracting the house edge) but didn't update the 'how it works' page.  That resulted in the "how it works" page not correctly documenting how it works, so I pointed it out.

Leave it wrong if you like.


No.  I didn't complain about their tongue-in-cheek "ghost of Satoshi" reference either.  I'm pretty sure none of it is meant to be taken seriously, whereas I suspect that's not the case for your site.


Maybe it would be best if you quoted the payouts you actually pay out, and then document it correctly.  Just a crazy idea.

I think you mean, "Why don't you copy Erik's site, piggyback off his investment, and then mislead players so that they use you instead of him because there's no other distinguishing feature."  ::)




In this, at least, you're correct :)

Competition is the nature of free market.

I don't mislead at all. I pay more than you do. I take less percentage than you do.

If improving upon ideas or service was never done, the world as it is today would not exist.

I did not piggyback off your investment. I simply saw an idea that was good and felt I could improve it. Instead of telling you how to run your game like Dooglus thinks he has some right to do to me, I wrote all code myself, developed site myself and invested my own time and money to make changes I saw fit to make.

Same scenario causes multiple exchanges, pools, miners, etc.

I gave users a choice.

Hey BTCDice! :-) 2 weeks ago system was much faster. After bet (send BTC to specified address) it took 2-10 seconds to back the BTC.
Now it takes 50-80 seconds. What's going on? Will you fix it?

I don't tell you how to run your game.  I point out where I find your site either misleading or just plain incorrect.  It's up to you whether you want to listen or not.  Run it however you like; I don't care.

I've never played your game and don't intend to.  I use SatoshiDice myself since they have a proven history of being reputable.  You might just disappear one day and not pay out pending bets, whereas I trust that SatoshiDice won't.  I might be wrong with that - it's a personal choice who to trust.

If you prefer that I don't point out errors on your site when I see them, that's easy enough for me to accommodate.

I will be perform maintenance to improve speed this weekend, hopefully it resolve all issues.

More FUD from dooglus. For someone who does not play, you sure spend lot of time on my site.


Do not comment unless you have real issue, about bet you placed on my game, for me to deal with.

Hi dooglus, we welcome any criticisms you may have on our new "Clone Dice" game: http://satoshiroulette.com/clone_dice

This at least I agree with :)

Maintenance has been performed to increase speed of game. Bets should now respond in only a few seconds where they were before delayed.

Happy betting!

I made a test bets and they took more time than before: 125 sec, 35 sec, 58 sec, 116 sec, 98 sec. So it's even worse. Month ago it was much faster like satoshidice or clone - up to 10 seconds.

"Receiving Payouts to a Specific Address" doesn't seem to be working correctly.

Processing backlog again.

I'm having issue with hosting that is cause for slowness. I'm try to sort out as quickly as possible.

Could you give me example txid? It worked fine in test I did.

Yeah it's weird sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't, here is the last one I could find:

b83aa953705c67557bc9831c2144094a7d7393d8a6bcca72745a7ded050768f0

Is it me or did the site stop working?

https://blockchain.info/tx/0b9d1544d1f8c30202f0bcd6bcb9f94eed00affcfade00bea43ab3b2560f0ecc
https://blockchain.info/tx/c9d0b3765a211c2deaaa8bf421775d7046ba36a9fb1fa53aea03bcaf51d274db
https://blockchain.info/tx/3c74a4fbc5f5b01553c160f3820a305a694d2e3169b8b390e5690fe977d25586

Nothing back from these three, and nothing is on the site.

did this get fixed ?

I just dug out this thread to post something similar, but as it seems, all I need to write is: me, 2.
Note, that all the BTCDice-outputs have been spent, so obviously the bet did arrive at the address.

All three of them never showed up on the site. I was never returned any btc. Searched the txs on the site, not there. Searched my address, those transactions aren't there, only previous ones.

http://btcdice.com/search.html?q=1CirMfqaxNMsBrvWjy12WNGkWLgtDVoTZJ+&limit=100&min_bet=0&status=ALL&submit=Search

When I wrote that, the site seemed to be frozen, like the scripts were stopped.

Lets hope the admin is away for an extended period...

well, until he resurfaces the site again gets shifted to pending in the list.

I wonder if it would be useful to track that metric.  Meaning: while it is nice to know where a site is currently on the list; to know that it has been flopped back and forth would also be good information.

Just for completeness sake, I just received those missing payouts.
(only losses, but that's probably just my bad luck ;-)

As did I.

all losses ?

Can we verify the results of these TX's please.

You can verify when secret is revealed. They were losses.

I feel like I should chime in here, I have place several thousand bets at btc dice and have yet not to have one come back win or lose, granted the responses have been quite slow lately for whatever reason, and sometimes the transactions seem to get "stuck" but I've had the same thing happen at "other" dice sites as well.

They were the latest ones:
http://btcdice.com/search.html?q=1CirMfqaxNMsBrvWjy12WNGkWLgtDVoTZJ+&limit=100&min_bet=0&status=ALL&submit=Search

Question: Why/how did they all end up with the same luck (#)? How is that possible?

Those sent in the same transaction will have the same lucky#.
This is a trivial consequence of how the lucky# is determined.


Same here (except not *that* many), but I had become used to rather fast payouts, so a delay of two days *was* ringing the "unusual"-alarm for me.

On a sidenote, I'm wondering about the "value" of 0.00000001 payouts and the byte-cost for the bitcoin network of including these in a new tx. I suggest to BTCDice to offer a second set of bet-addresses, and who bets on those agrees to *not* expect those peanut loss-payouts. For saving them (especially the mining-fee for them), the house edge could be lowered a tiny bit for those bets, as an incentive to save the bitcoin network those peanut-outputs.

Yes, unfortunately I had some host issue that was causing lot of problems (and is still causing problem with speed) that I'm deal with. Hopefully it will be fix soon.


I will go over the math and see if I can implement something like this. Maybe top 4 or 5 most popular game.

Ouch. I noticed how Lucky #s tended to stay constant, and I'm like, 'hey is there a bug'? So I bet 0.5 btcs instantly after I had the lucky # of 6119.

Well no, just found out it doesn't work like that :(

Lucky number will only staying same for sendmany bet to multiple game addresses of same transaction

I've lost the last 21 times I've played the less than 32000 game on BTCDice.  I cannot believe that is legitimately possible.  What are the odds?

The odds of losing 21 *independent* lt32000 games in a row is about 1:1000000
very unlikely but not impossible.

Unless you did so already, go to btcdice.com and into the search field enter each
of the transaction id's and see what each's lucky number really was.

Have you been playing through blockchain-wallet's bet-feature or directly
by creating a transaction to the respective addresses?

I was using bitcoind to send directly to the address.  I can't verify all of the games until more than 24 hours has passed, since the site uses the time of processing to choose the secret used (which it shouldn't, it should use the time recorded in the block chain for the transaction).

I don't know what you mean by "independent," I lost 21 games consecutively.  If we round the <32k game to 50% chance of winning, it's like a coin flip, where the chance of flipping heads is 1/2^1, or 1/2.  The chance of flipping 2 heads in a row is 1/2^2, or 1/4.  That would make my run of 21 losses about a 1/2^21 chance, or 1/2097152.

red flag

The site operator can easily delay processing transactions  until the current time generates a losing secret.
Please use the blockchain timestamp.

None of transactions were delayed. I have two way of processing on transaction, either live transaction or re-queue (during heavy load, or follow downtime), both of which use timestamp for the day that bet was processed. Edit to make clear: ("processed" meaning, when TX was broadcast through bitcoin on server)

Individual timestamp does not matter, only the day of timestamp. Does not matter if transaction occur at 23:59:59 on 2012/19/10 or at 00:00:01 on 2012/19/10, it will use same secret.

You can verify transaction yourself once secret is revealed.

If you claim this is red flag on me, you claim it is red flag on Satoshidice too, because Satoshidice works same way.

As the tx-timestamp may not be "tamper-proof" (could be set back to a date whose secret number is already known) it is necessary for any gambling site to pick the date where *it* sees the tx. However this indeed leaves a cheat-hole, as mentioned in:


Is that the end of the "no cheating possible" gambling-claim in bitcoin world? Especially in the context, that it actually happened recently, that bets were spent rather quickly (so the tx obviously reached btcdice's wallet in time), but "processed" with one or two days delay. That doesn't look at all well, BTCDice :-(

We should really have an eye on how long it takes in average to process bets, and how long it takes till the bets are spent. Losses paid instantly do not count to the average. Also the chart of recent wins is not reliable, as that could (in principle) be "firends' or own bets".

PS: @22bones: "independently" meant "not in the same tx".

Thank you for clarifying that, that was my only concern.
I am further impressed you use the bitcoin time stamp to process the tx against the secret used at the time the bet was placed for delayed bets.
Very very good work.

GREEN FLAG

Site temporarily down. All bet will be marked as 'above max' and sent back (less the 0.0005 TX fee) once they confirm while site is down.

TX fee is taken to insure transaction gets back in reasonable time. Please do not bet while it is down, if you do not want to lose tx fee in btc.

The problem here is that the main attraction of these games is how fast they work.  There's no blockchain timestamp until the transaction is in a block, which takes on average 10 minutes to happen.  You don't want to have to wait for 10 minutes on average each time you bet before you find out whether you won or not.

If you're worried about the operator cheating, don't play in the hour before midnight (server time).  This should remove the ambiguity.

Bitcoind provides a "time" and "timereceived" field for each transaction, even before the block clears... I thought.

Yes, but there's no way you can prove whether the site owner's bitcoind received the transaction today or tomorrow.  The received time is potentially different for each bitcoin node.

"received time" is local to your running instance of bitcoin.
"time" is the actual original timestamp used to generate transaction in client.

Bitcoin network will ignore a new transaction if it is having too old a timestamp, or timestamp from future, when it is introduced.

BTCDice works using the UTC timestamp from transaction to determine day of transaction (in UTC) and then process using secret of that day (in UTC).

Just out of curiosity, when will the site be back up?  :D

Transactions don't have timestamps though.  You client may make a note of the time that it first saw a particular transaction, but my client may put a different timestamp on it.  I don't think there's any way we can safely agree on the exact timestamp of a transaction, since it's not part of the transaction itself.  All we can agree upon is the timestamp of the block that includes it.

I am unsure of for now. Working as quickly as possible to get everything finished, and day job is very hectic right now which is taking lots of my time.

Ok thanks :)

Amen?

I am been very delayed with my job. I have lots of deadline taking my time. I am still plan on getting site back up as soon as possible.

frozen and withdraw not processing after 30 mins... Hmmmmmmm

oh they are back now and withdrawn ok.

Which site are you posting about?  I think this one's dead.

BTC-dice.com - it is working now.

This thread is for btcdice.com, an SD (old blockchain dice game) clone.  Not to be confused with btc-dice (a new Just-Dice ripoff).

Oops i got the wrong place!