Bitcoin Forum

What are Beertokens:    http://exchange.beertokens.info/docs/images/beer_logo75.png
Beertokens are trust shares in a crypto-currency trust that is traded with it's own crypto-currency chain where each Beertoken is one of the 100,000,000  total initial outstanding shares in the trust.  The trust is setup with rules and a prospectus similar to what a standard corporation or trust would use.  Beertokens was created to communicate a concept and to be an example of a proof of concept of the infrastructure needed to support such a method.  I should also note that BeerTokens chain has not been created yet as we continue to develop software needed to make it a reality.  For an updated status of the BeerA crypto currency spec overview see https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=9493.msg423706#msg423706.  Also see MultiCoin where a majority of these dreams of new crypto currencies are becoming a reality : http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=24209.msg300830#msg300830

What are the Beertokens Trust rules:
The Beertoken rules are controlled by the present holders of the Trust.  The votes of  the holders of the trust are controlled by the number of beertokens a voter is holding at the time of each of the quarterly meetings or anytime a new issue is brought forth onto The Trust.   The simple rule from the start of distribution of Beertokens is that  “The central beertoken exchange will buy and sell from it's internally owned pool of Beertokens ( that at start total 100,000,000 initial beertokens, but if the market demands more than 100mil and if/when we sell out we just create a new chain with more that are trade-able 1 to 1 to the new chain over the central exchange to make the supply unlimited yet with controlled distribution) and it's accumulated other currencies and assets, at the price of one 330mL can of Leo Beer as seen priced in all 7-11 stores in Thailand with a spread of +-3%” .  The price of Leo Beer will be updated quarterly or when a transition in the price  is detected, at todays price one 330mL can of Leo Beer at a 7-11 store is 30 Baht or $0.9907 USD (updated 7/28/11 price 1 Beer = 1.010010 USD).  For transaction of BTC to BEER since the price is so unstable at present the spread will be the mtgox low of the day -3% and the mtgox high of the day +3%.   For other currencies including USD, PPUSD, THB, it will be the the currencies value with added spread -3% and +3%  minus all transaction fee's as compared to the value of BEER.  Remind you that private traders can trade between the central exchange spread to make it even more stable and can use BEER as the base currency in speculation trading of BTC or any other currency.  The Trust rules would also contain what assets the trust would hold as backing with possibly 50% in BTC and 50% in a diverse set of other currencies that would be used at the exchange to move from one currency to another.  These percent holding overtime may change depending on market conditions and what was decided by The Trust.

Why do we need a Beertokens trust:
The purpose of the Beertokens trust is a concept to attempt to create a more stable currency that will not change in value more than  between +-3% over time so that merchants can start using crypto currencies for what they were meant to be used for instead of just speculating.  Since it will also base a majority of it's asset holdings in Bitcoin it could  also act as a stabilizing capital entity to help stabilize the price of Bitcoin as well, if the asset base got big enuf to be influential.  

The new http://exchange.beertokens.info (http://exchange.beertokens.info)  currency exchange:   http://exchange.beertokens.info/docs/images/beertokens_exchange150.png
I have already setup a new exchange to move between several currencies including BTC, TNBTC, WEEDS, BEER,  USD, PPUSD, THB at: http://exchange.beertokens.info (http://exchange.beertokens.info)  .  At present the exchange site is only setup for testing and will only trade between  TNBTC (testnet BTC) and WEEDS (another test currency) and now also open for trades between BTC and BEER with limited max deposit accounts of max .1 BTC per account.  We will soon also activate the site to accept international currencies into the exchange through banking, PayPal and other transactions.  I have the FAKE testnet TNBTC exchange continuing to run so people can learn how to use it without even having any real money in it.  At this time there are no transaction fee's on any transactions in the beertokens exchange.

What is WEEDS currency: http://exchange.surething.biz/docs/images/weedlogo64.png
Weeds is another test crypto-currency, created for testing and as a proof of concept to using the new multi crypto-currency client now called MultiCoin.  Weeds also uses some of the new rules changes possible with MultiCoin that include controlled inflation.  In the case of Weeds all the coins were minted within the first 10 blocks in the chain for a total of 10,000,000 Weeds.  Weeds also has a set minimum of .01 transaction fee for every transaction.  This is all that is received by the miners that mine for weeds.  This is very much like what we had planed for the rules of BeerTokens with a few other modifications added.  For more details on the specs. of WEEDS see MultiCoin: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=24209.msg300830#msg300830 . The creator and supporter of the WEEDS test currency and other Alternate crypto chains.  WEEDS is used in the BeerTokens Exchange for testing of exchange infrastructure and is setup as a simulation of how BeerTokens are traded.

What is the MultiCoin client:   http://exchange.beertokens.info/docs/images/multcoin150x50.png
The MultiCoin client is a new slightly modified Bitcoin client that allows transactions with an unlimited number of crypto currencies block chains.   Each different crypto currency has a different set of rules and a different root block that is controlled by settings in the MultiCoin config file.   The code for MultiCoin and also MultiCoin-qt (the gui version) are open source  .    The MultiCoin client will also be able to transact the new beertokens chain when the beertokens config file is  released in the near future.  MultiCoin now also provides P2P escrow features that have been tested as working on testnet and weedsnet.  We are not sure if the escrow features will work on Bitcoin Mainnet yet.  for more details about Multicoin see http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=24209.0

dude you ripped of britcoins site lol :D And not only that you done a real bad job of it hahahaha

Interesting!

You are correct this site uses the opensource provided by britcoin from there http://gitorious.org/intersango/ git release with only very few minor changes.  I will also publish all the changes I have made at some point and if anyone would like to help improve the site to add new features and a better look I would be glad to work with you to incorporate any changes that The Trust desires.  I am also working on adding p2p escrow to my new crytpo-currency clients that I hope will eliminate the need for most  exchange trades in the furture.  I guess you can't eliminate all the exchanges but for smaller transactions an escrow will be all you will need in most cases.

Yes sorry Scott I was a bit harsh with my comments ;) The site looks like it could do with some work. Not saying this isn't an interesting concept ;) I'll take a look over all the documentation.

I was asked why did you choose “one 330mL can of Leo Beer at the 7-11's in Thailand” as your base value.   Why not some other brand of  Beer sold in some other place or something else entirely?   You do have a good point there and nothing is written in stone if The Trust chose a different brand of beer or something else of known value as the base value of BeerTokens or some other name, that's entirely up to you as the group.   It just so happen I like Leo Beer here in Thailand as it's the local #1 beer that most people buy here, and I feel most people in the world might have a general sense of what a can of beer is really worth no mater what country you might live in.  But there might be a more international beer that more people all over the world might have an idea what the value of that brand is.   For example maybe Heineken Beer.   As far as international beer I like Heineken beer but I'm a cheap skate and never drink it unless someone else is buying.   I think the price of a can or bottle of Heineken beer here is about 58 baht per can or almost $2USD.   Also that's just the price here in Thailand.  So to even complicate it more maybe we would have to average the international price of Heineken beer over 10 or more countries.  But I don't think it will mater too much since the rate of international inflation will probably make all the brands of beer rise at about the same rate and that's all that matters over time.

hahaha, nice jokes :P

Haha, this is awesome.

I also like your other site: http://exchange.surething.biz/

The crypto-currency of the junkies.

Genjix thanks for the complement,  ya the first exchange art work was cool and when I change it to be set to trade TNBTC I will open it again just to remember where it all started.  To me if it's not fun then it ends up being too much like work.
 
The next step for development and testing of the BeerTokens Exchange is the auto trader bot that will start out by setting up automatic trades on the http://exchange.beertokens.info site.  The bot  will auto setup limited volume buy orders at mtgox low of the day and limited volume sell orders of mtgox high of the day.  This will be tested in the test currencies section to start with in tnBTC and Weeds to simulate BTC and BEER when it becomes real.   It will also have sense limits in range  on big moves in the mtgox BTC market or if the mtgox site fails it will then let the market float with only private traders to move the prices in the beertokens exchange.  The bot will be run in an hourly cron to start and later may add some random time to limit the private traders taking profits at know intervals.  I should have some bot running by tomaro or maybe the next if my other work clears.   If all looks well in test we will open real money trading to invited investors only with limited max deposits of real money on each account and a max will also be set on total of echange account balances.  This will prevent total destruction and limited losses if something totally fails.  Over time we will open up real investments to larger numbers of accounts and larger max deposits and play it by ear as we go.

     One other thing I will have to do soon is limit deposits even in TNBTC to better simulate the control that the exchange will have to have over prices in the simulated exchange of TNBTC and WEEDS.  I will have to create locked currency accounts since there is no way to limit how much someone deposits with bitcoins or testnet TNBTC coins.  The locked currency will still be able to be withdrawn, just not traded in the Central Beertokens Exchange market until at some point the Exchange has the needed assets to match and or can handle the risks it takes to handle a larger asset block.  This has not been enacted yet so people that already have TNBTC invested might be upset but it's just fake money so if you have a problem with this please tell me now. ok time to get to work.

So if I have a site that needs its own points system or credits or virtual currency I could use one of these to do so by modifying the conf file ?

Yes with the slightly modified branch of bitcoin now called MultiCoin you can create new chains to create new currencies with new rules.  It's still in it's early stages of testing and is opensource with my branch presently at https://github.com/sacarlson/MultiCoin (https://github.com/sacarlson/MultiCoin).  Some of the documents with detailed instructions are here https://github.com/sacarlson/MultiCoin/blob/master/create_new_genisis_block.txt (https://github.com/sacarlson/MultiCoin/blob/master/create_new_genisis_block.txt)   If you want more details on that maybe you or I should start another article on it as it's quite technical and involved and outside the subject of this article.   I should add one more thing that MultiCoin is not a stable release so use at your own risk.

I made some changes to the Beertokens Exchange.  I added Max deposits of TNBTC of 10 and max deposits for 100 for WEEDS to simulate how it will originally open with real money in the future.  Since I can't stop people from depositing more from WEEDS or tnBTC or BTC, I setup locked accounts including TNBTC_locked  and WEEDS_locked  that your over-funding will be pushed to.  So do not attempt to deposit more than the max deposit or there will be a delay for you to  retrieve your funds.  I will soon add a method to withdraw these locked funds after they have been deposited for over 24 hours.  It is meant to be able to control trading volume and to limit losses from network attacks.  With all these other problems with IRC and testnet problems I haven't had a chance to get the auto trader bot working yet.  It now looks like it may take a week with my other tasks that need to be completed.

long ago tokens had pictures of sexual favors you could get for them, is this another possibility?

The preliminary test of the automated trading bot have passed on http://exchange.beertokens.info site.  The present trading bot rules are preliminary and simplified just to test the functions of each system call.  At present the bot is only trading fake money of TNBTC and WEEDS as simulated the same as it would be set for real money as BTC and BEER.  Rules are:

1.setup trades to sell qty 1 TNBTC  for it's value at the mtgox 48 hour high
2.setup trades to buy qty 1 TNBTC for it's value at the mtgox 48 hour low
3.every 20 minits check orders for changes in mtgox high low over 0.1 in value, if detected cancel previous orders and setup new set as seen in step 1 and 2.
4.also if the above orders have already been executed setup another set of orders.
5.There is another rule that suspends trading of the bot when mtgox prices go outside limited trading range that is now set to low must be grater than 7  high must be less than 20.

That's all the rules we have at present just for preliminary test.  I hope to see more people testing it to see how well this works.  If it seems to be working OK we will increase the sell and buy quantity to 10 and above.    We continue to have limits on deposits of TNBTC of 10 and WEEDS of 100.  I should have the locked funds in the accounts that go over max accessible within 24 hours or less to be withdraw-able from withdraw page (not done yet).  Or just contact me on IRC #beertokens on freenode  to ask me to refund your TNBTC.  It's just fake money so it's not on the top of my list to build and fix.

    In theory with this should keep WEEDS (and later BEER) trading range within the center  range of the price of one BEER or about $0.9907USD (about $1).   We may have to make some adjustments on volume limits and spread prices on the central trading bot to get it as close as possible.  

ahahahahaaaahahaaa

I got the source code for the crypto-exchange from http://gitorious.org/intersango/. But can't seem to be able to configure it correctly. When I move from one page to the next, it seems to keep login me out. Some pages will give the message 'INVISIBLE' You have gone to a wrong page. Go somewhere else.

I also get the following error: Warning: gmp_cmp(): Unable to convert variable to GMP - wrong type in /var/www/clients/client0/web1/web/test/bitcoin/util.php on line 115

Also what command do you use to start bitcoind? I used:

sudo /usr/bin/bitcoind -server

My test page can be found at:

http://www.plazamx.com/test/bitcoin/www/

Regards

I have opened the doors of http://exchange.beertokens.info  site for running with real BTC Bitcoin money by accepting limited deposits of no more than 0.10 BTC.  I have also put a limit at this time to only accepting user ID numbers up to 130 to allow only 28 more customers to test the site with real money.  The robot trader is trading the same rules as are run on the WEEDS to TNBTC to auto set the price of BEER within the ranges specified in the published rules.   After this stage of testing if all goes well I will begin to open for more users and later allow larger deposits and after that we will start accepting deposits from other currencies through other standard means of banking.   All trading at this time have no fee's and can trade down as small as .0005 for Bitcoins or Beertokens.   These small trading numbers makes it possible to setup many trades even with only a .1BTC or even a .01 BTC deposit.  You can also still trade in WEEDS and TNBTC to learn how it all works without adding any money at all.   Any deposit of more than 0.1 BTC will be deposited into your locked account.  The locked account can't be traded but can be withdrawn from the withdraw page after the BTC has been confirmed.   The limited deposits and users is a method of testing and also limits the volume into the market of BeerTokens.  The site is in  alpha test stage so please don't try to put very much money into the system at this time.   If you have any problems with running the site or anything else I might be able to help you with unrelated to this subject please contact me at the freenode #beertokens  I'm normally seen as sacarlson or email me if that fails at my sacarlson@ipipi.com address.

Abe supports Weeds: http://john-edwin-tobey.org:2750/chain/Weeds

(Sorry for the slowness.  A faster server and faster code are in the works.  The impatient are welcome to run and improve Abe.)

I'd support beertokens too if I could find the config file.  Could I have missed it?

Use the bitcoind in that gitorious repo. Also you need to follow the instructions in INSTALL

If I have understood correctly, you wont accomplish what you are promising, because its basically imposible. The price of anything, including a currency is determined by supply and demand. You are controlling the supply and it wont change more than your 3%. But the demand is unknown and can be very variable, so you basically can not control the price.

He's Ben Bernanke.

Maybe you should try and tell that to Chinese who have been doing it for years to pin the value of there currency to the USD by buying and selling US treasuries.  Or maybe you have never been to Los Vegas and used casino chips that are guaranteed to be trade-able for an amount of USD.  Although I must admit I have had my doubts with the large changes in BTC over the past 30 or so days.  It's all a mater of having large enuf reserves of stable enuf asset holdings base to cover fluctuations and have an unlimited yet controlled supply of beer.  As the changes we have seen in the value of BTC go from 30 to 10 and up again I find I would not be able to hold as large a percent of "The Trusts" assets in that class of holdings as I had hoped we could do.  I have changed high estimates of needed preminted Beertokens to 26billion as compared to what we see PayPal.com has in there float units and in the event we run out we would just run a new chain that would be equally trade-able 1 to 1 shares in the central exchange to provide for infinite expansion.  And also THE most important is to have it managed by a GROUP of trustworty people not just one.

If you dont have direct control of the supply, you wont be able to control it for long. You will eventually run out of funds, there are very clever speculators out there. This happens constantly when central banks try control the exchange rate of their currency. Because they dont control the supply of the other currency they get crashed. The chinese are able to do what they do because their economy is developing and the natural tendency of their currency is appreciation. Devaluating is easy and "free" (for the central bank). Increasing the value of a currency is expensive. If the chinese economy started to fail, their central bank would be unable to hold the value of the yuan to the dollar.

If you have direct control of the supply, who is going to trust the currency?

With a 100% backed currency, you can hold the value to almost anything.

In this example, if the price of the currency rises above (beer price) + 3%, then he could buy lots of cans of beer.  He could then sell the beer if the price of the currency falls.

The fact that beer doesn't last that long would mean that he would have to cycle the cans out of his reserve.

Storage costs in general would add more expense.  OTOH, if he bought in bulk, he could very easily buy the cans at lower than the high street price.

All he needs is for his reserves to be worth at least as much as the outstanding coins.  Worst case, everyone turns in their coins and he ends up with whatever is left in his reserve.

If people paid $2 for a coin and he can buy cans for $1.50, then he can build up his reserve at less than the face cost.

TierNolan is correct with 100% backing you can hold the price of anything at any price.  The one fault in his statement is that we don't really plan to hold beer we just hold assets of USD or ERO or treasuries and bonds in many different currencies in many different countries and many different banks to keep the possibilities of any one country or bank or entity from being able to lock us out of any or all of our assets.  We just base the value on the commodity of beer to make it clear to the holders of "The Trust" the value of what they hold for each share.  so we don't have a problem with aging or storage.  what you may not even realize is that 90% or more of the world banks only hold 10% or less of the outstanding debt of there depositors.  We have no plan to be as unstable as any of the known banks.   Remember we have unlimited supply, we can sell as many shares as the market can bare and we can and will buy back any outstanding shares the market wishes to cash out to any degree needed to keep liquidity constant.

Ok, so you are basically a 100% reserve bank of whatever currencies you decide to hold. But the question now is: whats the point? Why would I want to use your currency instead of euros if I know they are the "same? And what do you get of all this and how do I know you will stay honest?

s/it's/its/

Well, he is using an actual commodity, so no central bank control.  Also, you can trade them electronically.

Since bitcoins seem to be increasing in value, there seems little point in not just using them.

What it could be good for is to give a stable reference for bitcoins' actual value.  For example, you could hold bitcoins but agree to pay in beertokens.  This would eliminate the need to do the deflation calculation in your head.

Seems to me, he is the central bank of beertokens!

The aussie beer tokens would be backed by fosters and VB.

 :)

Why not setup a wine token exchange because you can store bottles of those in a cellar for years and they even increase in  value ? Or scotch ?

Of course then your market would crash if jesus returns and turns all the water into wine.  ;D

Apparently that is part of the plan for an Italian cryptocurrency, they are mostly waiting to see how the Brits and Canucks do with their cryptocurrencies first though if even the Czechs can do it, they figure, surely Italians can too.

-MarkM-

So, when can we start getting beer tokens?

I fully support these Weed coin things.  I also love this post, pot enters the picture, is late and has a bunch of excuses on why it is lol

But if you are fixing the price to another currency, why not hold the other currency directly? I mean, if I know 5 beers are going to always be 50 euros, why not just have 50 euros and avoid the counterparty risk?

I just dont get this project and Im trying to see if Im being thick or what.

Hahahaha

I hope someone didn't actually send BTC for 13 'beertokens' on this guys 'exchange'

His argument would probably be that beer is less likely to inflate.  If the government prints lots of money, beer prices will increase, but one can of beer will still have the same value.

If brewing technology improved, the price of a can could drop though.


It doesn't seem like a massively serious proposal :).

Maybe we'll be better able to judge that when the Italians and Scotts get their blockchains up and running, by checking his exchange rates for beer vs wine vs scotch. :)

-MarkM-

I dunno, he's clearly put in some effort.  What is definitely serious is the infrastructure to support more experimental currencies.  I doubt that BTC is the last word on chain-of-work currencies.

Why not use this:

=> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Mac_Index

It is very international and is already well established...


Cheers ;)

Definitely. A lot of people pooh-pooh alternative block chains but there is a lot of potential.

-MarkM-

Fair enough, my comment was unfair.

If you store a big mac they last for a long long time.

Not for storage but as base of the currecy
(I doubt that 10.000.000 cans of beer will be stored anyway)

Ach well here's the beauty o' the reserves system, lad...

...They dinna need t'a store yon beer, on account'a they kin store Scotch Tokens 'n Wine Tokens instead, ye ken?

...An' o'course them Catholics dinna need t'store yon wine, d'ya ken, on account'a they kin store Beer Tokens 'n Scotch Tokens instead, ye ken?

...So lets drink up all this Scotch, aye laddies, an keep reserves o'yon Beer 'n Wine tokens t'back oor Scotch Tokens wi', eh?

-MarkM-

Now your starting to get the idea.  As stated in the prospectus any product, commodity or index can be used as the basis of value of the tokens to determine and hold the value to in the units in the crypto block chain.  From the start or over time “The Trust” may change what they decide to use as as a base value index or the name or any settings in the infrastructure.  In this model all decisions are bases on votes of the holders of coins in the chain much like decisions are made in corporations.     BeerTokens with Beer was only chosen in this example as  a means to communicate the concept of a method and the infrastructures needed to support such a concept and a proof of concept.  The names used and indexes or commodity used have no real bearing on the concept method of creating a stable crypto currency.  It's only to illustrate  the infrastructure and tools needed to support such a concept and proof of concept.  To make it simple anything can be changed it's all up to you “The Trust” holders.  And I and others continue to build the other parts of the infrastructure to make this and or other possibilities a reality.  So step up and be counted to make your mark to help shape the future of mankind.  Don't continue to be a helpless fish in a barrel, at the whims and under the control of the software developers, miners and or politicians and bankers.

Re: from the start or over time

well, from the start I understand:
could be any tangible commodity which is internationally
availabe and more or less stable in price.
it should be very fungible, though
(1 gram of gold, 1 kg copper, can of beer, big mac)

But "change over time" I can only see that with an almost parity
between the old base and the new base at the date of rebasing.

Otherwise the whole currency would either lose or gain value
depending on the difference in value of the old and new commodity-base

right?
 

If you can do it, I think it would be better to have a terra (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terra_(currency))-like reference currency or use directly the CPI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumer_price_index) you like more.
But I don't understand how can you make a terra without storing the actual commodities.
How is the value of the dollar, euro or bitcoin linked in a way that you can hold bitcoins to back oil?
Can't the trust go bankrupt?

Even if you could do it, how do you make the CPI decentralized?
This second problem is the main issue I see with this other proposal (http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=31032.0).
I'm not sure I've understand options correctly, but maybe that's what the trust should accumulate.

Also, If you get to put the CPI inside the chain, I'm sure someone wants to use it make an alternative chain with a monetary base that depends on prices. The problem I see with that is that you may over-reward miners during periods of inflation creation.

We now are at preliminary review of the new BeerTokens crypto currency spec that uses MultiCoin-exp as the client.  The multicoin-exp config spec is presently published and will be updated from this site: http://exchange.beertokens.info/docs/multicoin/bitcoin.conf.beerA .  The chain is now running at "difficulty" : 50.0 ,  That is designed to be merge mined by other namecoin miners and or bitcoin miners.  It is designed to pay .0001 BEER for each mined block up to block number 50,000 where it will pay .001 BEER.  These future mining subsidies are subject to change depending on market conditions.  This is all we could possibly afford to pay for mining at the start.  If we find we can't get miners to this payoff we might have to wait for licensed mining.  For some details on how to setup MultiCoin-exp for merge mining of BeerTokens see https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=24209.msg394289#msg394289 . If you have any problems setting it up please ask us direct at freenode chat #multicoin so that we know what we need to add to the documentation to make it work for more people.  Note the spec is not finalized yet and it will be evolving over the next few days or weeks.

Update Aug 4, 2011 8:30pm BKK.  I found we have a big bug in the new Diff_post_triger and Diff_triger_block config settings in MultiCoin-exp that cause orphaned blocks after block 12 when starting a new system from an empty datadir.  So this feature will have to eather be fixed or not used.  I'll take a closer look at it tomaro.  This is what happens when you try to do too much tooo fast.

Update Aug 7, 2011 5:43pm BKK.  The above bug has been isolated and fixed with present release of MultiCoin-exp and a slightly modified bitcoin.conf.beerA .  Preliminary test all look good.  I moved out merge mining to now start at block 1500 to add more test time.  A new difficulty change point has been  added at block 1510 but we will have time to change that or delete it if we find we need to.

Update Aug 9, 2011 6:56 BKK.  We have our first merge miner connected to the beerA config spec chain.  Presently the miner is merged with Namecoin and BeerTokens mining at 370Mh/sec.  Soon there will be many more.

I've updated the list of currencies on my sign to include beertokens. Maybe you're interested in the reserveCoin idea.

I don't like that spring up cryptocurrencies everywhere.

I like them only if they have an improvement over bitcoin. I don't think that all listed currencies are better than bitcoin, but maintaining the list is a way to avoid that people came up with the same "new idea" every month.
I would be happy if we added demurrage to bitcoin. But since that's not going to happen, freicoin is needed to attack interest.

I would like to see thousands of currencies with a wide range of features.  Monetary policy is not easy to get right, and BTC is not the last word on it.  The way to improvement lies through unfettered experiment.

I've been discussing how Bitcoin might overcome the adoption/volatility problems in the event that the adoption rate stagnates before they've solved themselves.  I ended up proposing a solution that jtimon said looked a lot like Beertoken, so I thought I'd post it here for posterity, and to see if beertoken could be adapted to be suitable for this purpose.

Namely, it'll need to be able to pay out interest - both postive and negative - to currency owners at per-block rates specified by the central issuer.  The transactions do not need to occur for every address, during every block, obviously, but only at the time a transaction is made.  In the meantime the client can just calculate effective balances of addresses.

The CHECKMULTISIG OP code is also required, but that's for the Bitcoin developers to enable.  It's not stated below, but it'll also require nLockTime for trust-free exchanges of cryptocurrencies - something also for the Bitcoin devs to enable.

Here is the use case:

because the price of beer will be going up in euros, but will always be the same amount of beercoins

sacarlson, I have not read this whole thread yet, but I've read enough that I think I may have expressed similar or the same ideas in the following post, so I'd like to give you the opportunity to read them. My apologies if it's too wordy:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=245528.msg2602961#msg2602961

I'd be happy if you found any of those ideas useful and incorporated them. As I say, I haven't read this whole thread yet (and can't at the moment--I'll come back ot this), so I'll personally be curious to read this whole thread.

Re BeerToken, I actually had the same idea, except I thought it might be pegged to the value of one pint of whatever may be argued to be the most beloved/widely used Irish beer (Guinness?), at whatever value it's at in the most popular pub in Ireland.

I also thought about pegging it to the value of a kg of wheat, but . . . come on. What is wheat for? :)

Hi, I think your idea is better implemented at a higher level and not in a coin itself. There are many technical obstacles to put this in a coin.

Some pools already move in your discribed direction: multipool.in and middlecoin.com.
Although the switching criterion of the most profitable coin is maybe not the best choice.

I still think that the Luckycoin mining parameters are fundamentally sound.
I have researched some options for the retarget algorithm, but I fear non of them will not solve the multipool issue.

Titan

I suspect that using BitShares with a 'BitBeer' asset would track the price of Beer +/- 3% and not be centrally controlled like Beertokens.  It would also pay dividends so...