Bitcoin Forum

re: Bitcoin, Darkcoin, Ethereum, Ripple, et al..

I was listening to a podcast yesterday with one of the Ripple guys.  I know almost nothing about Ethereum but I'm assuming its similar to Ripple.  That's to say, a massive system that makes it possible to transfer assets globally, be it currency, contracts, whatever.

Here's what I don't get.  Why the need for a native Ripple currency inside this system, if the stated purpose is a system to make it safe for transfering BTC, dollars, etc..  What would be the point of the "native" ripple currency?  What's the point of "Ethers" in ethereum?  What's the point in having 500 different "altcoins"?

People don't understand technology.  I know this, because I'm having hard time understanding why anyone would be against the 20MB fork in bitcoin, i feel completely out of my depth reading these threads, yet my friends think I'm like Neo because I can set up their wifi for them.  They are clueless, as are like 98.5% of everyone everywhere when it comes to technology.  Having 500 different coins and whatever will keep the masses AWAY from cryptocurrencies, until one or perhaps a handful clearly emerges as the dominant and most widely accepted one.

Also, you will NEVER convince granddad that something called ZIFTERcoin is money.  You will never convince someone who doesn't have a deep understanding of technology that it is safe to use something called DARKcoin.  It sounds like it was created specifically for buying drugs on the internet.  Computer geeks understand what the "dark" in darkcoin is supposed to mean, but we are an extreme minority in that regard.  I think these coins will fail ultimately just due to their silly names, regardless of how good the underlying technology might be.  Bitcoin at least sounds legit.


Anyways, pardon the rambling, i've never been much of a writer, but I guess what I'm asking is, what do you guys think will happen to Bitcoin because of all this.  As someone who doesn't even fully understand Bitcoin yet, let alone ripple, ethereum, etc.. it seems like we're gonna end up with the same shit we have now.  A thousand disparate choices for payment, and exchange fees out the wazoo when I want to buy something on Amazon with my XYZcoins but amazon only take ABCcoins etc..  Aside from the underlying technology, how is this any better?

This is a divided issue with the community... should the Bitcoin Blockchain be the *only* blockchain?

Altcoins run the same basic code as Bitcoin with minor tweaks - nothing earth-shattering there.  For an altcoin to become bigger than Bitcoin it has to be as disruptive to Bitcoin as Bitcoin is to the current financial system.  Minor tweaks won't replace Bitcoin.

However, altcoins can be compared to gift cards - retailers can offer their own currency.  The benefits are discounts offered (i.e. 10% off all purchases if you use our currency... it gets customers back in the door with a discount AND they have to spend it there).

There are two ways of implementing this, 1) sidechains, or 2) stand-alone cryptocurrencies.  There are mixed opinions on both.

No alt can challenge the bitcoin and no matter how advance altcoins are, it is useless without a large enough community. I think they are a good testing ground for devs and the features they innovate can be implemented into bitcoin when they mature.

What's the point? The point is always the same: to make the devs money, and this includes Ripple and Ethereum.


I agree, and that's why bitcoin will likely prevail and alts wont. They're just unnecessary.

Alts *are* bitcoin.  You don't have open source software without forks.  Altcoins are part of the ecosystem and without a doubt strengthen it.  They prove that bitcoin is here to stay. 

Mainnet BTC is absolutely the best store of value in all of bitcoin.  There's a lot of shit bitcoins out there.  Collect, play, learn, use.. with caution.           

My thoughts exactly, all the altcoins are just elaborate speculation currency's with alot of volatile swings in value. Bitcoin is standing on the threshold but the technical barrier will keep it from bringing it to the masses. I believe that the cryptocurrency or follow-up will be the future.

There are alot of coins and great developers but ultimatly, the system gets weakened with each new coin released. If some coins have the same goal, they should combine forces to bring their coins to the next level, meaning making it easy enough to understand for untech-savy people.

I checked out 20ish different coins and their wallets. Bottem line, they are all the same with some minor tweeks. It's nearly impossible to build a valuable coin if the improvements are nihil..  It's time to face that reality and hire economics to work with the crypto community to share ideas.

This has already been implemented in Nxt.
Monetary System is Nxt's implementation of Sidechains and allows tokens (altcoins) to be created within Nxt. Retailers can create a token where they can only be transferred to and from the retailers account and supply can be inflated to create new tokens.

There are 5 properties of MS, 2 used in the example above. Retail vouchers are just one use case of Monetary System. Pow mintable coins and trustless crowd funding are others.

There are so many who don't know what bitcoins are and don't have any knowledge. While others show no interest in this cryptocurrency as it is not used by many websites. Only those who chose to trade in bitcoins use it so as if now it does not seem to have a bright future.

well considering bitcoin is utter shit in respect to transaction/confirmation times....

i've personnally waited over what...half a day.. for the system to find a block.  this has no relation to fees or anything, just for bitcoin to FIND a block.  it happens sometimes.  in the best of times we are looking at 10 minutes on average.

it is not practical for daily/everyday/point of sale use.  which is why altcoins imo came to light. 

-hey wanna buy my ps3 game? sure!  ok transfer me bitcoins on your phone to mine
-stand around for 45 minutes ???

fuck that

-send me DOGECOINS
-5 seconds later
-confirmed

-see ya!

As long as the community refuses to address this problem, bitcoin will remain a shit coin in respect to point of sale and transactions IRL. 

Err nope. Ethereum plays a complete different game on a complete new level.

Here please educate yourself:
http://forum.ethereum.org/
https://blog.ethereum.org/

Of course we don´t need 500 alts. That´s one thing Ethereum is about. A featurless platform instead of many altcoins, everyone with one special feature. An Ethereum you can build everything, and that very easy.

Do they still plan to use their own custom language?

I am not 100% sure, and maybe not uptodate, but I think they provide a costum lanuage for creating Apps and smart contracts.
But it should be easy to learn for coders with html, etc. skills.

But don´t cruzify me if I am wrong.

Maybe this articel helps a bit: http://etherscripter.com/what_is_ethereum.html

If you want to get deeper in it, you have to watch Vitaliks Videos or read his blogpost. But that´s kind of hard for a non-coder like you and me :-)

I got my info on Ethereum from CIYAM (he has his own project, AT, but I have only seen him to be balanced in technical matters). He is critical on the basis of the custom language and the need for a dedicated browser to use it.

I get the feeling Ethereum will be a slow burn, there is friction to adoption and use that can't be solved before launch (end march 2015 IIRC? I am dubious they will be ready by then too). And there is currently know appetite for Smart Contracts (as Come-from-beyond argues and seen in the wild). There are already blockchain options out there (http://www.smartcontract.com for one) that have had little visible impact.

If I held Ethers, I would sell down through launch week/month (I think there will be a pop, could be a big one depending on mainstream media coverage) and look to buy back in at 15-30% the initial price and have a 3-5 year outlook form there. I think anyone expecting to get rich on holding ethers quickly will be disappointed.

I think they are both biased a little bit. But anyway you have to make up your own opinion cause everybody has his own agenda.

My opinion is that Ethereum will be traded way bigger than the IPO, and I mean WAY bigger. And the IPO price will never be hit again.
Why? Cause the IPO buyers bought when there was absolutely nothing than a concept. And there was huge progess in the last 6 months, and nobody was able to buy.

And why is Ethereum that different? Vitalik tries to build the best blockchain with his knowlegde about the last years, not just a feature or something. He is like a scientist. And second the ETH-Team does not  try to replace Bitcoin like everybody else. They try to look at the big picture, and build the backbone of the coming project.  I can´t find the matrix, but Vitalik pointed a scenario how the future could look, and Ethereum is just a part. Of course an important part, but he is open for innovativ projects to work with. Just watch some vids, he is impressive, kind of like a blockchain-Mozart.

AND there is no need for smart contracts? Maybe Samsung and IBM have a different look than CFB. I hope he will release his opinion and try to work with V. together. Hardware by CFB with Blockchain by Vitalik. Sounds like a fucking awesome team.

So, for this get rich quick thing. That works almost never ever anyway. The only thing we can do is try to get in low and sell high. For me this is not one of this bad iPOs where early investors buy something and dump it after launch, and it wasn´t ever. I am looking for the next big thing, not just in Crypto, everywhere. And imo Ethereum could be this next thing. Besides that there is just maidsafe, nothing else in Crypto has to potential to play in a league with Google and co.

You will say, why not NXT? Cause I think they don´t have the potential to play that big, but there is certainly a nische where they can be successful, but the world changing things, like the Internet, won´t happen on NXT. But honestly, being ebay or facebook is not that bad of a thing, isn´t it?

Never hit IPO again? I am even more sure eth will have a big pop at launch   :D

Are IBM  and Samsung going to be have a market ready to use smart contracts in one month or one/two years? Eth has the same problem.

I don't think many expect them to deliver nothing,  something will be launched. And their biggest dreams will be worked towards, over the coming years. The risk from 6 months ago hasn't changed, neither will have the demand. And from the clamour of the sale, I doubt there is a majority that will be holding while the kinks are worked out and wait while there is something a lot of people will want to use is developed.

That´s just what people are writing in Forums like BCT or NXTforum. I wouldn´t base my opinion on what they are telling you. They have always an agenda or almost no knowledge.
I would suggest you, read Vitaliks blog, what some videos on Ethereum, and build your own opinion.

Honestly I don´t want to advertise Ethereum when I am writing with you, but I know what you have done in NXT, your presentations, etc.
And I am a big NXT supporter, because of that I share my knowledge/believings with you.
Don´t feel forced to buy Ether :-) and don´t be scared for NXT, there is plenty of space for both of them.

And I hope some fancy coder will build a bridge between both.

I have read a selection of Vitaliks blog and I like how precise and balanced he seems to be. From discussions with CfB and his Weak Subjectivity post, he seemed to be going for POS. I speculate his switch to what I understand is a POW variant was because this is the best chance of making an ROI for investors. As you know POS have much lower volumes than POW and less attractive for speculators.

If you read my posts,  I am not saying eth won't be successful and is implied Nxt has nothing to fear (since you keep bringing it up!   :D ) there is just a feel that eth will be released, there will be rainbows and rivers of chocolate and it will hoover up all crypto users and aversge joe will take to it immediately. I think it is much more realistic that it will be valuable to people in a couple of years. And in the meantime, it could have a hard time. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. I might buy ether, but not yet  ;D

I think there will be a lot of bridges built over the next 18 months in crypto. Also odd that you dismiss any critics but accept the slick promo stuff as gospel  ;D

I think I read that a small amount of POW will still be needed for same crazy attack prevention for a special part. Didn´t understand it well and it doesn´t matter that much for me until it is final.

Yeah you are rigth, could be hard, but don´t have to be.

And promo, no problem, whether Eth or NXT will get the throne, I´ll be a winner.  ;D ;D ;D

What's the point of having 500 different text editors?  500 different fonts?  1000 different linux distros?
There are going to be millions of separate chains, you better get used to it. 

But yeah, don't go overboard.  Building a new coin for your work means you don't have the existing network, and adds costs to people signing on.  Don't waste your time if you don't have to.

Greetings,

 As in regards to the future, perhaps
 there may be a turn of events
 that brings about a shift in outcome.

  Crypto movement is an experiment.

  whats new today is old tomorrow.

P2P360

> The future of cryptocurrencies

What about a "currency that is unfair for the rich" ?

See https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=711966.msg10485718#msg10485718

Cryptocurrency of the future needs to have utility, developer support, popular among communities, and easy to trade on exchange with high liquidity
http://coingecko.com/

"Cryptocurrency of the future needs to have utility, developer support, popular among communities, and easy to trade on exchange with high liquidity"
http://coingecko.com/

I always use crypsty, but i see you mention coingecko.com. Is that also good and trustable?