Bitcoin Forum

i've watch a video where someone says dollar lost 97% of it's value, this would mean that there is only 3 % left ?  is 0 % when i can use it as toilet paper?


I can tell when USdollar has lost value because my purchasing power has decreased (prices of good increases), so how can the dollar value have a limit when the price of a good can be increased in an unlimited fashion?

simply put what will happen when dollar has lost 100% of it's value and is as such worthless?

Fucken lol. That's not how it works. It's might have lost 97% of its purchasing power but that doesn't mean it only has 3% left to go. It just means you can't buy as much shit with it as you could in the past.

In fact all these graphs dont matter as long as people keep accepting it.

It works like this; gouvernement  spends insane amount of usd on sh*t they dont need to, and print more to cover their insatiable needs, and what that does is to lower purchasing power of all the uds in circulation.
So if you're saving in usd, bit by bit, your money is loosing its value, because they are printing more of it.

Imagine if bitcoin had central institution, and if they remade bitcoin so that they can mine any amount they want, moving the total amount of coins from 21 mil, to 42, what would happen?!
Bitcoin would loose compared to fiat 50%, and people would turn around and wouldnt touch it again. The question is why are people embracing  fiat so much, when its all the same scheme everywhere.

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OP, another way to look at the 97% loss of a dollar value is to:

Imagine what once costs some three - five cents now costs a dollar.

Of course the dollar has lost 97% (plus or minus) since 1913, I cannot verify that myself as I was not around then (smile), but there is no doubt that gasoline (and so much else) was MUCH CHEAPER in the 1960s when I was a kid.

*   *   *

Gold has gone up (vs. the US$) at about the same rate as the dollar has gone down.  Yes, it has been bumpy along the way, but gold has shown itself to be a far superior Store of Value than the US$.

Here are some links to explain it more:
https://www.thetrumpet.com/article/3237.31060.91.0/economy/why-the-us-dollar-constantly-loses-value

http://useconomy.about.com/od/inflationfaq/f/value_of_a_dollar_today.htm
"In 1913 you could buy as much with a dollar as you can with $23.63 in 2014, more than 100 years later."

What you are missing is that it's like a half life. 100 years from now people might be saying that 97% of the dollar's value has been lost since 2014. That doesn't mean it will be worth less than $0, it would be worth $0.03 in today's dollars. Since we've lost $0.97 of every $1 already, that would equate to only $0.0009 (9 1/100 of a cent) of every dollar remaining.

thanks for the answers, i got confused with the % for some reason i thought it was limited but actually it's not, the value could decrease by 150% ,300% or even 10000 %.

good example, thanks for clarifiying this

such a loud topic.
thanks for clarifying in the replies

The term expressed can be quite confusing. It should at least refer to percent loss of purchasing power to be more accurate.

dollars never had any value, was always a toilet paper, but you are forced to use it

so that is fiat money, the feds print it out so many papers and $ value keep down everyday
i watched that video too, few months ago

I already use Euros to wipe m butt, wont take long before toilet paper is more expensive(worth) then an euro bill.

You are not forced to use it.  You give up your freedom voluntarily. 

This is called a "debt jubilee".  Debts contracted in a currency under jubilee are forgiven.  People use other exchange commodities when they are necessary.  There are plenty to choose from.  

Some people panic about this but there is nothing frightening about it; it has happened many times and is cause for great celebration.  

The majority of money isn't printed by the fed but issued by banks who create debt from thin air when people go to lend money. It's just numbers on a screen then they make massive gains from the interest on the free money they just made up.

we kind of are forced to use fiat man

Fuken lol! Bitcoiners do not understand how percentage works!

You'll be able to use it as toilet paper when the same amount of (toilet) paper as the dollar bill will cost more than one dollar.

Until then.. your math is 0 and your trolling thread is 100%. Not bad :)

You're not 'forced' to do anything. You could live off the land and just barter, though if you want to exist in mainstream society you're very likely going to have to use it. Maybe look to join a libertarian hippie commune or something?

Tell us more.  Which contract do you regret entering into?  I have a few too.  Lets terminate them and move on.
The most obvious examples of people not using fiat are the super rich, like the Queen of England or say Fidel Castro.
 However more and more of us of modest means are escaping the slave class.   

OP you need to learn the definition of inflation tho.

It is abundantly clear that what really matters is the world's confidence in the dollar. They can just keep printing more and more.
If the confidence in the dollar begins to fade, they will just start a war somewhere and make some money.

You have the order confused.   You need confidence in a currency you can print to be able to pay for starting your war.     

Actually, no, it couldn't decrease by 10,000% because then it would have a negative value. The way it works is that if you start at 100% and lose 10% a year, that 10% get's smaller every year.

For example, if inflation is 10%:

2014 $1 - 10% ($0.10) = $0.90
2015 $0.90 - 10% ($0.09) = $0.81
2016 $0.81 - 10% ($0.081) = $0.73
2017 $0.73 - 10% ($0.0729) = $0.66
2018 $0.66 - 10% ($0.0656) = $0.59

So you are losing 10% every year, but 10% of the deflated, not the original, value. So after 5 years you've lost 10% 5 times, but that's only 41%, and the 10% will keep getting smaller and smaller. In 2018 in my example, 10% of $0.66 (rounded) is 0.066 (also rounded) which is only 6.6% of the original $1 in 2014.

It's like compound interest, but in reverse.

I hope that helps.

Not true, because the government will take your land if you don't pay property taxes and put you in jail if you don't pay income taxes on items acquired in barter.

Not if you are the lender. That might sound nice until you consider that borrowers tend to be people like me who are young and have many years of income ahead of them while lenders tend to be people in their later years saving for retirement.

In fact, I believe the US Dollar has lost 99% of its value between 1914 and 2014... :D

USD is in the midst of bubble and will be strong for the next two years. Which equates to Bitcoin being weak.

Nope.
Long before it reaches that level, they will stop printing $1 bills.
You will only have $10 bills.

Only 97%? Cars were like $10 when they were first invented, it's definitely lost more than 97% since it was first printed.

^A mind on Bitcoin.
Not even once, kids, not even once.

The few in power have made the illusion that the dollar is worth the same as it always has but how can the paper be worth anything more than paper when it is not backed by anything except its paper worth? The dollar used to be backed by gold when they actually had gold in the vaults but then there has not been an audit of the gold since 1950's, you have to ask why! Probably because it is no longer there so if it has gone the paper dollar is backed by nothing and lost 100% of its actual value then you add the amount of extra $ the private ponzi reserve has pumped into the economy it is a stack of cards that will have to fall within our lifetime.. I buy silver and a little gold i would suggest others do the same if they can.   

Caveat: If they like to lose money.

http://s15.postimg.org/a781gnyt7/Capture.jpg

*and that's measured in USD, the value of which, as we all know, depreciates by 136% a year.  So pretty much a total loss.
...well, not quite as bad as BTC, I suppose...

Do you read fairy tales aswell? It does not matter if them graphs say 0 what matters is i hold something of value and what has kept value for hundreds of years, you miss the point the dollar goes night night, what do you have to barter to survive? paper money that is worthless lol

Here is what I believe will happen.  At some point the government will declare the currency no longer of value.  They will stop accepting it for tax debts and issue a new currency.  This new Amero currency will encompass more than just Americans, as they will need to expand the ponzi system to ensure it is widely accepted and successful.  All prior US debts will be forgiven, and replaced with new tax debts denominated in the new currency.  Companies will have all of their debts settled with the new currency, and taxpayers will have the burden of massive tax debts, but no personal debt.  Everything will continue on as normal, like someone hit reset on a video game.  Those who held precious metals and cashed them out to pay debt prior to the official announcement that the dollar no longer holds value will be debt free, while everyone else is a government slave for the rest of their lives.  Don't worry though, the Federal Reserve will promise to be more responsible with the new currency, even going as far as to establish new laws (read as: removing more freedoms) to safeguard the new currency.  These new laws will actually be there to restrict your ability to freely transfer wealth into other currencies or goods so that they can maintain a currency monopoly in the face of threats like Bitcoin.  Then the whole cycle starts over again.  A result of this will be higher taxes, a great loss of US wealth, and of course war.  Don't worry though, the war will be waged in the name of peace against those promoting terror (terror being defined as a resistance to the central banking empire), and the new currency will be billed as a currency of the people and touted as an example of how inhabitants of North America came together to solve a currency crisis.  However, in reality it will just be an expansion of the current central bank, after having stolen precious metals from the inhabitants, and replacing them with higher taxes in the name of stability.  There will of course be lots of new government programs offering food and shelter for those in need, as well as a growing government to provide stable jobs at the cost of the taxpayer.  All in all, the working man will be happy to have 0 balance on their credit cards as we march towards insolvency once again.  Companies are happy because their debts are wiped clean and replaced with tax debts that can easily be gamed, while also having all the debts owed to them instantly paid, leaving them in a great financial position moving forward.  Those who saved their entire lives will meet financial ruin, and those willing to work for the government will live happy lives, unknowingly as slaves.

Lol, I live in a civilized country, we use money to survive.  But hey, if you like the shiny metal you've been collecting, I'm sure you can trade it for some beads or sharp rocks or somthin', push comes to shove.  I'm betting on BTCeanie BTCabies becoming the currency of choice when That Time comes.
Because fuzzy and poseable.

Lol bro!  How does it taste?  Sounds particularly uncivilized.  [edit].. of course to be fair it all hinges on what you mean here by "money". 

Filthy savage:  
In civilized society, we do not eat money.  We purchase slaves from our backwater colonies who, in turn, cook our sixteen-course meals.
Soon, you to will evolve and stop eating money & hoarding shiny things.  Because 21st century.
Furthermore, brutish barbarian, there is no money but Money, the Glorious United States Dollar.  Educate yourself.

Civilized country did make me laugh, you mean you use paper to survive and that paper is worth as much as toilet roll in fact it is worth less because it is 'debt' the closet thing to money on this planet are the shiny pieces of metal you find funny to collect.

Money is in fact 'gold' paper is just a receipt of the 'gold'. It all started many years ago in a village/small town the gold smith was his own bank now he stored his gold in his safe and people realized that they could ask him to store their gold also and so they asked, he agreed to this and stored the towns gold etc

He would give them a piece of paper which was their receipt a modern day iou of the amount of gold he held for them, after a while he realized that not everyone came to collect their gold at the same time so he could loan a % of the gold out and make profit which he done and at the same time created fractional reserve banking which in short your 'money' is worthless and is backed by 'nothing' except ofcourse most of the sleepy population :)

Filthy savage #2: 
In civilized society, only our poor (wretches whose mansions lack proper slave's quarters) use paper money.
The rest of us rely on advanced, risk-free computerised electronic payment system called The Credit Card.
Some day you too might evolve to our heights, ill-bred brute.
http://s24.postimg.org/eawp0w24l/silver_spoon_by_90sigma_small.gif

Why would they do that? The only situation that justifies the issuance of a new currency is hyperinflation. Slow inflation allows prices to gradually adjust. When I am old I may pay $10 for a donut and $250,000 for a car but value of a currency doesn't really matter, only the speed at which the value changes. I'll just carry larger bills. Or more accurately perhaps, I won't carry bills at all.

Do you think before you write? 97% would be a dead currency.
World is in global problem or call it crisis, but dollar is not dead. Anyway, every time when American economy falls deep down, they go to war somewhere.
It's like that about Dollar. It cannot be dead as USA will always find a new target where to drop old weapons, so they can produce new and so on.

Yes silly me, how unciviised.  I had even considered that the energy and light of the sun, the fruit of the soil, and the love of living things between one another was what enabled me to survive.

Actually, the statistic he quoted is correct although I don't know the exact time span he is using. Since 1913 though, the USD has lost -95.8% of its value.

how about yourself?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqE7GTvbJ9I

at 3:21  I did not invent it, it did lose 96% of its value and no, it is not a dead currency as a result.

I simply got mislead by the graph in this video that's why i got confused with the % but % are not finite , us dollar can lose 43 000 % or whatever.

From your comment i can tell you made the same mistake as i initially did and try to correct me ohh the irony!

Read entire thread content next time:)

>the love of living things between one another was what enabled me to survive

What does your hoarding of gold & silver have to do with love between living things, you frickin' greedy_but_incompetent money changer?
If it's love and sunshine you're after, here:

... go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

True indeed.  I would certainly recommend for anybody in their later years saving for retirement to have some portion of savings which is not loaned out to young kids like you. 

I am sure there are enough "reasonably safe" investment options whose returns can beat inflation.
So people in their later years really don't have anything to worry about.

...

Yes, the US$ has lost some 96% of its value since 1913.

And I am a big fan of gold and Bitcoin.  <== Everyone should own some of each (where possible).

But, in the past two or so years, the dollar has been very strong versus almost everything.

Stocks have been very strong as well since 2009.  The Dow, the S&P 500 and NASDAQ are all near their all-time highs.

Diversification !!

*   *   *

Top gold analyst "FOFOA" recently wrote that in his opinion there are NO "safe" investments that would beat or even match inflation.  There is risk of default (that would include "default by inflation") in almost everything.

FOFOA discusses these kinds of subjects at great length (emphasis on "great length") at his blog:

fofoa.blogspot.com (http://fofoa.blogspot.com)

Diversification is good.
We should however be underweight on USD. Hold lower dollars then everybody else.

Because that is what they've always done.

I have recently rebalanced my portfolio thusly:
~37% BTC,
~45% BTCeanie BTCabies,
~10% in shiny metals,
and the rest in BTColo ties & other highly liquid commodities I bought on advice from fellow fortune-seekers from these fora.  I don't hold any USD because they put an RFID strip inside the bills now that lets NSA listen in on my conversations (as if poisoning my water with fluoride wasn't enough).

Anyhow, I'm pretty much covered in any eventuality.  As long as they don't start messing with the clouds again.

During how much time can a value drop in % ?
Response : Infinite

Your remark considering whether you can use a Dollar Bill eventually as Toilet Paper as some merit though.
If that happens, it means that it is more costly to create a Dollar Bill than to create Toilet Paper. So the reasonable question is : whether or not you should invest into toilet paper.

The reason is no, for one reason, if 1$ = 1 roll of toilet paper, then the central bank will not issue 1$ dollar bills anymore, but most likely 100$ or 1000$ bills to bring down the cost of production of the dollar.
At this point I advice you to conserve your legacy 1$ bill because currency collectors will value it more highly than toilet paper.

Yes, it will only asymptotically touch zero (i.e. never) even if it keeps losing value.

...

NotLambChop

~45% BTCeanie BTCabies sounds about right to me, ha ha ha...  But, you would be wise to have no more than 25% of that in any single BTC.BTC.

Remember, diversification takes many forms, and is multidimensional.  You can't be too careful.

Cash is a guaranteed loss. Don't over diversify. Just pick four well known metal funds that have a long term track record, think things that have gotten 11 to 12% average annual growth over the last 25 to 30 years. I'd go so far to say after doing that save up 3 to 6 months worth of expenses in cash. It's also good to have adequate insurance (term life, health, home, and any sort of liability you need.)