Bitcoin Forum

Economy => Service Discussion => Topic started by: smoothie on July 31, 2012, 12:25:18 AM



Title: BTC-E.COM NICE RECOVERY FROM THE HACK! =)
Post by: smoothie on July 31, 2012, 12:25:18 AM
https://btc-e.com/exchange/btc_usd

Good job to support and dev over at BTC-e.com.

 :D


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Ferroh on July 31, 2012, 12:27:05 AM
Perhaps someone at BTC-E got hacked, and bought all the BTC they could.

If so, they may not be able to withdraw.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Brunic on July 31, 2012, 12:28:12 AM
Woah!  :o


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Scott J on July 31, 2012, 12:32:17 AM
Perhaps someone at BTC-E got hacked, and bought all the BTC they could.

If so, they may not be able to withdraw.
Seems plausible.

Though how much USD would it have taken to get to $40?


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: coretechs on July 31, 2012, 12:34:53 AM
LTC/USD has the same problem.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Serge on July 31, 2012, 12:36:14 AM
http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/chart.png?width=800&m=btceUSD&SubmitButton=Draw&r=60&i=&c=0&s=&e=&Prev=&Next=&t=S&b=&a1=&m1=10&a2=&m2=25&x=0&i1=&i2=&i3=&i4=&v=1&cv=0&ps=0&l=0&p=0&


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Ferroh on July 31, 2012, 12:37:11 AM
Though how much USD would it have taken to get to $40?

http://i.imgur.com/L7xNv.png

http://i.imgur.com/k29wV.png


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Scott J on July 31, 2012, 12:40:26 AM
I make that as over $800,000 :o

Who has that sat on an exchange?

Rather than someone's account being hacked, surely it's the exchange itself?


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: EnergyVampire on July 31, 2012, 12:41:25 AM
LOL! "Volume: 1561830 USD / 51159.8 BTC"

Might be a good idea to withdraw your funds before the lockdown!!! Just saying...


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: jwzguy on July 31, 2012, 12:41:38 AM
There's no way that's legit.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: opticbit on July 31, 2012, 12:42:00 AM
Just signed on to this.

excellent timing.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Serge on July 31, 2012, 12:43:25 AM
it keeps buying, $45


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: nayrB16 on July 31, 2012, 12:44:55 AM
Is someone trying to run up the price to cause a panic crash later?


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Ferroh on July 31, 2012, 12:46:28 AM
BID price is now at $40.

http://i.imgur.com/dSxXP.png

Something is very wrong. I advise against depositing anything there, they are likely compromised.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Mushroomized on July 31, 2012, 12:51:02 AM
Seems legit


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: tiberiandusk on July 31, 2012, 12:51:05 AM
http://i.imgur.com/wfb34.jpg


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Chalkbot on July 31, 2012, 12:51:31 AM
OMG, just what we need, another bitcoin disaster.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Garr255 on July 31, 2012, 12:51:36 AM
I just deposited 20BTC to sell at these ridiculous prices. I think the strategy here is to deposit no more than you're willing to lose!


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: EnergyVampire on July 31, 2012, 12:53:49 AM
I just deposited 20BTC to sell at these ridiculous prices. I think the strategy here is to deposit no more than you're willing to lose!

Good luck getting USD out of there.  ;)


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: TTBit on July 31, 2012, 12:54:59 AM
Got to have a few btc spread around for the upcoming craziness.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Garr255 on July 31, 2012, 12:56:33 AM
I just deposited 20BTC to sell at these ridiculous prices. I think the strategy here is to deposit no more than you're willing to lose!

Good luck getting USD out of there.  ;)

I'm not even going to try :P I'll buy the BTC back.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: TTBit on July 31, 2012, 12:56:42 AM
I just deposited 20BTC to sell at these ridiculous prices. I think the strategy here is to deposit no more than you're willing to lose!

Good luck getting USD out of there.  ;)

BUY ALERT!!!
Those who sold @ 40 now have $$$ and are going to want to buy a TON OF BTC now to get their money out of the exchange easier


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: hazek on July 31, 2012, 12:57:26 AM
I think their bot they use for artificial volume generation went bonkerz.  :D


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Scott J on July 31, 2012, 12:57:43 AM
Damn it, I was about to go to bed as well!


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: FreeMoney on July 31, 2012, 12:57:50 AM
Seems like virtually zero automatic arb going on.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: runlinux on July 31, 2012, 12:58:13 AM
litecoins are going through the roof too...


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Spekulatius on July 31, 2012, 01:00:49 AM
Damn it, I was about to go to bed as well!

+1


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Chalkbot on July 31, 2012, 01:00:54 AM

BUY ALERT!!!
Those who sold @ 40 now have $$$ and are going to want to buy a TON OF BTC now to get their money out of the exchange easier


Can we then conclude that these massive amounts of BTC will then make their way to other exchanges for the cash out, thus causing those prices to fall?


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: thezerg on July 31, 2012, 01:01:39 AM
Obviously best way to get out is thru another coin...


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Spekulatius on July 31, 2012, 01:02:00 AM
@ mods: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=96803.0

merge?


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Scott J on July 31, 2012, 01:02:33 AM
If the hacker can get around any BTC-E withdraw limits then the exchange and its customers could be ruined :-\


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: EnergyVampire on July 31, 2012, 01:02:43 AM

BUY ALERT!!!
Those who sold @ 40 now have $$$ and are going to want to buy a TON OF BTC now to get their money out of the exchange easier


Can we then conclude that these massive amounts of BTC will then make their way to other exchanges for the cash out, thus causing those prices to fall?

I would say, yes (mixing service first though).

This is not going to end well for BTC-e.  :(


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: TTBit on July 31, 2012, 01:07:27 AM
Sold a handful at $30-$32. Trying to deposit more. We'll see the results. I'll be a buyer at $15 tonight though if anyone is willing to jump into this....


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: FreeMoney on July 31, 2012, 01:10:57 AM
Moving thread to speculation is a mistake imo. This is a big deal. Maybe rename to "possible BTC-E hack" or something.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: jwzguy on July 31, 2012, 01:11:42 AM
Sold a handful at $30-$32. Trying to deposit more. We'll see the results. I'll be a buyer at $15 tonight though if anyone is willing to jump into this....
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/8/88430/2379724-batman-facepalm1_super.jpg


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: stick_theman on July 31, 2012, 01:14:48 AM
Rising tide lifts all boats, come on Mtgox and other exchanges. 

Bruce: "Up and up and up and up!"


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Scott J on July 31, 2012, 01:19:03 AM
Latest block contains 64,516.55 BTC.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: goxed on July 31, 2012, 01:19:42 AM
Latest block contains 64,516.55 BTC.

What's happened is for real then!


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: jwzguy on July 31, 2012, 01:20:19 AM
Latest block contains 64,516.55 BTC.
Well people. This may be the end of BTC-e.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Scott J on July 31, 2012, 01:21:30 AM
Latest block contains 64,516.55 BTC.

What's happened is for real then!
Just thought, Pirate has just paid out.. I've no idea how much interest he pays...

Someone smarter than I will have to have a look.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: moocow1452 on July 31, 2012, 01:22:45 AM
Tempted to wait a couple hours, and see what happens. Could get a bunch of BTC cheap maybe.

^Who's Pirate?


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: jackmaninov on July 31, 2012, 01:23:37 AM
Latest block contains 64,516.55 BTC.
It contains one 3000BTC transaction as the largest transfer, so what? BTC charts shows over 50k BTC volume in 1 minute.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: stick_theman on July 31, 2012, 01:24:24 AM
Credit card fraud?  Someone used stolen credit cards?  What's going on here.  The transaction looks legit.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: ThiagoCMC on July 31, 2012, 01:26:41 AM
I am unable to withdraw my 140 BTC from BTC-e.com, this is quite anoying.

The money is frozen at btc-e transfer history...

And I "sell" some BTC for +20 during this thing...

What can I do, cry?!


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Raoul Duke on July 31, 2012, 01:27:06 AM
Latest block contains 64,516.55 BTC.
Well people. This may be the end of BTC-e.


And if thats true all the greedy folks will get burned for real. No BTC because they sold and no USD because btc-e doesn't have it.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: hazek on July 31, 2012, 01:28:36 AM
I'll laugh so hard when all the people rushing their BTC there to sell high and buy back low will be ultimately left with nothing because a hacker found a way to fill sell orders without actually having any USD..


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Chalkbot on July 31, 2012, 01:29:58 AM
I'll laugh so hard when all the people rushing their BTC there to sell high and buy back low will be ultimately left with nothing because a hacker found a way to fill sell orders without actually having any USD..

Yeah, or any number of other reasons they could potentially never see their BTC again after this. Very risky!


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: bitcool on July 31, 2012, 01:30:12 AM
I chickened out, ran away with my bitcoins while I still could.  :P


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: nayrB16 on July 31, 2012, 01:30:52 AM
http://i.imgur.com/4BGw9.png

There is the payout


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: RDegas on July 31, 2012, 01:31:29 AM
Perhaps this might have something to do with it?

http://www.it-networks.org/security/hacker-breaches-50000-itwallstreet-com-accounts-posts-data-online


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: jwzguy on July 31, 2012, 01:32:47 AM
Perhaps this might have something to do with it?

http://www.it-networks.org/security/hacker-breaches-50000-itwallstreet-com-accounts-posts-data-online
BTC-e has a USD/Resume exchange?


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: silverbox on July 31, 2012, 01:35:04 AM
Tempted to wait a couple hours, and see what happens. Could get a bunch of BTC cheap maybe.

^Who's Pirate?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=35827


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: EnergyVampire on July 31, 2012, 01:35:44 AM
... a hacker found a way to fill sell orders without actually having any USD..

This is a very good possibility.

Hopefully, none of the GLBSE companies have their funds at BTC-e.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Spekulatius on July 31, 2012, 01:36:48 AM
http://i.imgur.com/4BGw9.png

There is the payout

The red dots are no pay outs, the blue ones could be


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Spekulatius on July 31, 2012, 01:39:59 AM
I just sent 1BTC to my btc-e.com account, lol

Mayyyybee... this is for real


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: jwzguy on July 31, 2012, 01:42:04 AM
I just sent 1BTC to my btc-e.com account, lol

Mayyyybee... this is for real
Oh, it's "for real" all right. Just not in a good way.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: TTBit on July 31, 2012, 01:45:19 AM
Sold a handful at $30-$32. Trying to deposit more. We'll see the results. I'll be a buyer at $15 tonight though if anyone is willing to jump into this....
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/8/88430/2379724-batman-facepalm1_super.jpg


??? Sold at $30+, bought at ~$20. Withdrew, BTC in my wallet


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Mushroomized on July 31, 2012, 01:46:09 AM
http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz145/jetb9444/Spongebob.jpg


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Spekulatius on July 31, 2012, 01:46:35 AM
Sold a handful at $30-$32. Trying to deposit more. We'll see the results. I'll be a buyer at $15 tonight though if anyone is willing to jump into this....
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/8/88430/2379724-batman-facepalm1_super.jpg


??? Sold at $30+, bought at ~$20. Withdrew, BTC in my wallet

All confirmed??


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Scott J on July 31, 2012, 01:47:49 AM
From the BTC-E chat box:

Quote
MrWubbles: now logging in as support to troll more
MrWubbles: dev account has been deleted
MrWubbles: dev account has been deleted
MrWubbles: support is being deleted now
MrWubbles: dumping everyone's wallets
MrWubbles: bitinstant reserves have been leaked for days
MrWubbles: all your base
MrWubbles: I'm Mr Wubbles of wub fame
MrWubbles: Expect Mass Database Leak Soon
MrWubbles: wub database destroyed


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: FreeMoney on July 31, 2012, 01:48:51 AM
Well that's not good really. It means withdrawals are going through. Do you have a verified acct or anything TTBit? or will the haxor be able to get tons out via dummies?


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: FreeMoney on July 31, 2012, 01:49:12 AM
From the BTC-E chat box:

Quote
MrWubbles: now logging in as support to troll more
MrWubbles: dev account has been deleted
MrWubbles: dev account has been deleted
MrWubbles: support is being deleted now
MrWubbles: dumping everyone's wallets
MrWubbles: bitinstant reserves have been leaked for days
MrWubbles: all your base
MrWubbles: I'm Mr Wubbles of wub fame
MrWubbles: Expect Mass Database Leak Soon
MrWubbles: wub database destroyed

Is MrWubbles someone that people know?


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: unclemantis on July 31, 2012, 01:49:41 AM
BTC-e is bad news. I try to stay away from that exchange like the plague!


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: tiberiandusk on July 31, 2012, 01:49:45 AM
Sucks their withdraw limit is .1 BTC. Now how am I supposed to get my 0.00933138 BTC out of there? I'm ruined! :-P


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: TTBit on July 31, 2012, 01:50:17 AM
Sold a handful at $30-$32. Trying to deposit more. We'll see the results. I'll be a buyer at $15 tonight though if anyone is willing to jump into this....
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/8/88430/2379724-batman-facepalm1_super.jpg


??? Sold at $30+, bought at ~$20. Withdrew, BTC in my wallet

All confirmed??

Um... no. 2.18 of it to: 12JGzgb7ezdp5UT4EoJN3Spcn3P8fyyFav


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Scott J on July 31, 2012, 01:51:11 AM
Sucks their withdraw limit is .1 BTC. Now how am I supposed to get my 0.00933138 BTC out of there? I'm ruined! :-P
Consider yourself lucky. I have 0.0098578 on there that I fear may be lost forever  :(


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Serge on July 31, 2012, 01:51:34 AM
it won't end well


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: tiberiandusk on July 31, 2012, 01:52:23 AM
Sucks their withdraw limit is .1 BTC. Now how am I supposed to get my 0.00933138 BTC out of there? I'm ruined! :-P
Consider yourself lucky. I have 0.0098578 on there that I fear may be lost forever  :(

http://i.imgur.com/TV5ou.png


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Herodes on July 31, 2012, 01:52:28 AM
Hasn't BTC-e always been sketchy ? I never put any funds there..


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: moocow1452 on July 31, 2012, 01:53:27 AM
From the BTC-E chat box:

Quote
MrWubbles: now logging in as support to troll more
MrWubbles: dev account has been deleted
MrWubbles: dev account has been deleted
MrWubbles: support is being deleted now
MrWubbles: dumping everyone's wallets
MrWubbles: bitinstant reserves have been leaked for days
MrWubbles: all your base
MrWubbles: I'm Mr Wubbles of wub fame
MrWubbles: Expect Mass Database Leak Soon
MrWubbles: wub database destroyed

That can't be good, but how do we know he wasn't just trollololing?


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: ThiagoCMC on July 31, 2012, 01:54:07 AM
OMG... I had 180 Bitcoins there... Jesus...

My latest withdraw at btc-e webpage says "confirmed", but nothing reached my wallet yet.

40 Bitcoins was "sold" there... And 140 Bitcoins are stucked at some point there... In Russia... Damn!


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: thezerg on July 31, 2012, 01:55:46 AM
I chickened out, ran away with my bitcoins while I still could.  :P

Smart and as a bonus you dont have to feel guilty about contributing to the death of another exchange just to make a fast buck...


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Mushroomized on July 31, 2012, 01:56:02 AM
Sucks their withdraw limit is .1 BTC. Now how am I supposed to get my 0.00933138 BTC out of there? I'm ruined! :-P
Consider yourself lucky. I have 0.0098578 on there that I fear may be lost forever  :(

http://i.imgur.com/TV5ou.png
that honey nut feelios when you lose .008 btc


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Scott J on July 31, 2012, 01:57:50 AM
Time for bed, I wonder how long this thread will be when I wake up :o

Best of luck to those with a stake in this. Let's hope it can mostly be rolled back.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: dree12 on July 31, 2012, 01:57:58 AM
From the BTC-E chat box:

Quote
MrWubbles: now logging in as support to troll more
MrWubbles: dev account has been deleted
MrWubbles: dev account has been deleted
MrWubbles: support is being deleted now
MrWubbles: dumping everyone's wallets
MrWubbles: bitinstant reserves have been leaked for days
MrWubbles: all your base
MrWubbles: I'm Mr Wubbles of wub fame
MrWubbles: Expect Mass Database Leak Soon
MrWubbles: wub database destroyed

That can't be good, but how do we know he wasn't just trollololing?
There is no reason not to suspect a database leak.

The hacker must have gotten the fake USD in either through remote execution or SQL injection. Both these allow access to the database.

What confuses me is why they did not simply hack the BTC in.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: stick_theman on July 31, 2012, 01:58:47 AM
The price is still going up and down.  Someone's still buying and selling.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: tiberiandusk on July 31, 2012, 01:58:51 AM
From the BTC-E chat box:

Quote
MrWubbles: now logging in as support to troll more
MrWubbles: dev account has been deleted
MrWubbles: dev account has been deleted
MrWubbles: support is being deleted now
MrWubbles: dumping everyone's wallets
MrWubbles: bitinstant reserves have been leaked for days
MrWubbles: all your base
MrWubbles: I'm Mr Wubbles of wub fame
MrWubbles: Expect Mass Database Leak Soon
MrWubbles: wub database destroyed

That can't be good, but how do we know he wasn't just trollololing?
There is no reason not to suspect a database leak.

The hacker must have gotten the fake USD in either through remote execution or SQL injection. Both these allow access to the database.

What confuses me is why they did not simply hack the BTC in.

They wouldn't be able to withdraw fake BTC.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: yogi on July 31, 2012, 01:59:23 AM
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=62595 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=62595)

your hacker


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: silverbox on July 31, 2012, 02:00:32 AM
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=62595 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=62595)

your hacker

This made me lol ;)


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Mushroomized on July 31, 2012, 02:00:46 AM
Why are people still selling their bitcoins on this site

If you watch the market while playing this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cz9nvPtySI - its pretty fun


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: dree12 on July 31, 2012, 02:01:14 AM
From the BTC-E chat box:

Quote
MrWubbles: now logging in as support to troll more
MrWubbles: dev account has been deleted
MrWubbles: dev account has been deleted
MrWubbles: support is being deleted now
MrWubbles: dumping everyone's wallets
MrWubbles: bitinstant reserves have been leaked for days
MrWubbles: all your base
MrWubbles: I'm Mr Wubbles of wub fame
MrWubbles: Expect Mass Database Leak Soon
MrWubbles: wub database destroyed

That can't be good, but how do we know he wasn't just trollololing?
There is no reason not to suspect a database leak.

The hacker must have gotten the fake USD in either through remote execution or SQL injection. Both these allow access to the database.

What confuses me is why they did not simply hack the BTC in.

They wouldn't be able to withdraw fake BTC.
Why not?


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Bitcoin Oz on July 31, 2012, 02:01:48 AM
Site is down now.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: jwzguy on July 31, 2012, 02:01:53 AM
Um... no. 2.18 of it to: 12JGzgb7ezdp5UT4EoJN3Spcn3P8fyyFav
http://blockexplorer.com/address/12JGzgb7ezdp5UT4EoJN3Spcn3P8fyyFav
0BTC
Did you get any out successfully?


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: hazek on July 31, 2012, 02:03:12 AM
Site is down now.

Not for me.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: tiberiandusk on July 31, 2012, 02:04:35 AM
From the BTC-E chat box:

Quote
MrWubbles: now logging in as support to troll more
MrWubbles: dev account has been deleted
MrWubbles: dev account has been deleted
MrWubbles: support is being deleted now
MrWubbles: dumping everyone's wallets
MrWubbles: bitinstant reserves have been leaked for days
MrWubbles: all your base
MrWubbles: I'm Mr Wubbles of wub fame
MrWubbles: Expect Mass Database Leak Soon
MrWubbles: wub database destroyed

That can't be good, but how do we know he wasn't just trollololing?
There is no reason not to suspect a database leak.

The hacker must have gotten the fake USD in either through remote execution or SQL injection. Both these allow access to the database.

What confuses me is why they did not simply hack the BTC in.

They wouldn't be able to withdraw fake BTC.
Why not?

They wouldn't be able to withdraw any USD since it's fake. Saying you have 500000 fake BTC on BTC-e doesn't mean anything if you don't actually have the keys to those coins in an actual wallet. They used fake USD to buy real BTC then ride off into the sunset laughing.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: terrytibbs on July 31, 2012, 02:05:00 AM
I think it's time for the anonymous Russians to abandon ship!


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: BkkCoins on July 31, 2012, 02:06:44 AM
Isn't the BTC-E exchange the one I reported here and said beware some months ago? Or maybe I'm getting mixed up.

Another one of these, "oops we were hacked" scams. Someone there is selling people's BTC on them and the USD will vanish soon. Any users have BTC there that seem to be missing from their account now?


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: dree12 on July 31, 2012, 02:07:58 AM
From the BTC-E chat box:

Quote
MrWubbles: now logging in as support to troll more
MrWubbles: dev account has been deleted
MrWubbles: dev account has been deleted
MrWubbles: support is being deleted now
MrWubbles: dumping everyone's wallets
MrWubbles: bitinstant reserves have been leaked for days
MrWubbles: all your base
MrWubbles: I'm Mr Wubbles of wub fame
MrWubbles: Expect Mass Database Leak Soon
MrWubbles: wub database destroyed

That can't be good, but how do we know he wasn't just trollololing?
There is no reason not to suspect a database leak.

The hacker must have gotten the fake USD in either through remote execution or SQL injection. Both these allow access to the database.

What confuses me is why they did not simply hack the BTC in.

They wouldn't be able to withdraw fake BTC.
Why not?

They wouldn't be able to withdraw any USD since it's fake. Saying you have 500000 fake BTC on BTC-e doesn't mean anything if you don't actually have the keys to those coins in an actual wallet. They used fake USD to buy real BTC then ride off into the sunset laughing.

There's no practical difference between "fake" and "real" BTC or USD on an exchange. It can be withdrawn regardless. USD usually is more easily traceable, freezable, and is more dangerous, which is why the hacker could not withdraw that way.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: finkleshnorts on July 31, 2012, 02:09:55 AM
OMG... I had 180 Bitcoins there... Jesus...

My latest withdraw at btc-e webpage says "confirmed", but nothing reached my wallet yet.

40 Bitcoins was "sold" there... And 140 Bitcoins are stucked at some point there... In Russia... Damn!

Jesus no, please no...


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Yankee (BitInstant) on July 31, 2012, 02:10:02 AM
The part of BitInstant reserves being leaked is false, our books are accurate


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: AndrewBUD on July 31, 2012, 02:12:11 AM
The excitement around here never ends


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on July 31, 2012, 02:12:15 AM
They wouldn't be able to withdraw any USD since it's fake. Saying you have 500000 fake BTC on BTC-e doesn't mean anything if you don't actually have the keys to those coins in an actual wallet. They used fake USD to buy real BTC then ride off into the sunset laughing.

Dude.  All exchanges use a pooled wallet.  There is no such things "your" BTC or "your BTC" wallet on BTC-E, MtGox or any other exchange.  The exchange simply has one (or more) hot and/or cold wallets.  Then they maintain a database of each user's balance, and trades change those balance.     One could withdraw "fake" BTC just as easily as selling "fake" USD for BTC and withdrawing that.

The likely reason for faking USD is simply because that is the exploit the hacker founds.  Hacker found a way to add USD to his USD balance.  Once had had that why try hacking any further.  Give yourself huge amounts of USD, buy BTC and remove them from the exchange.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: TTBit on July 31, 2012, 02:12:22 AM
Um... no. 2.18 of it to: 12JGzgb7ezdp5UT4EoJN3Spcn3P8fyyFav
http://blockexplorer.com/address/12JGzgb7ezdp5UT4EoJN3Spcn3P8fyyFav
0BTC
Did you get any out successfully?

No, that is first few. Waiting for some confirms.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: dree12 on July 31, 2012, 02:14:15 AM
They wouldn't be able to withdraw any USD since it's fake. Saying you have 500000 fake BTC on BTC-e doesn't mean anything if you don't actually have the keys to those coins in an actual wallet. They used fake USD to buy real BTC then ride off into the sunset laughing.

Dude.  All exchanges use a pooled wallet.  There is no such things "your" BTC or "your BTC" wallet on BTC-E, MtGox or any other exchange.  The exchange simply has one (or more) hot and/or cold wallets.  Then they maintain a database of each user's balance, and trades change those balance.     One could withdraw "fake" BTC just as easily as selling "fake" USD for BTC and withdrawing that.

The likely reason for faking USD is simply because that is the exploit the hacker founds.  Hacker found a way to add USD to his USD balance.  Once had had that why try hacking any further.  Give yourself huge amounts of USD, buy BTC and remove them from the exchange.
If it was a SQL injection (extremely likely), it should have been just as easy to add BTC. I suspect the hacker may be intentionally messing with the exchange.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: tiberiandusk on July 31, 2012, 02:14:31 AM
They wouldn't be able to withdraw any USD since it's fake. Saying you have 500000 fake BTC on BTC-e doesn't mean anything if you don't actually have the keys to those coins in an actual wallet. They used fake USD to buy real BTC then ride off into the sunset laughing.

Dude.  All exchanges use a pooled wallet.  There is no such things "your" BTC or "your BTC" wallet on BTC-E, MtGox or any other exchange.  The exchange simply has one (or more) hot and/or cold wallets.  Then they maintain a database of each user's balance, and trades change those balance.     One could withdraw "fake" BTC just as easily as selling "fake" USD for BTC and withdrawing that.

The likely reason for faking USD is simply because that is the exploit the hacker founds.  Hacker found a way to add USD to his USD balance.  Once had had that why try hacking any further.  Give yourself huge amounts of USD, buy BTC and remove them from the exchange.

I understand all that. What I was saying is that simply putting 50000 in the BTC balance box doesn't mean there is actually 500000 BTC there.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: bg002h on July 31, 2012, 02:15:54 AM
Perhaps someone at BTC-E got hacked, and bought all the BTC they could.

If so, they may not be able to withdraw.
I vote hack vs. scam vs. clever stunt by the exchange to get more deposits.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: adamstgBit on July 31, 2012, 02:17:00 AM
They wouldn't be able to withdraw any USD since it's fake. Saying you have 500000 fake BTC on BTC-e doesn't mean anything if you don't actually have the keys to those coins in an actual wallet. They used fake USD to buy real BTC then ride off into the sunset laughing.

Dude.  All exchanges use a pooled wallet.  There is no such things "your" BTC or "your BTC" wallet on BTC-E, MtGox or any other exchange.  The exchange simply has one (or more) hot and/or cold wallets.  Then they maintain a database of each user's balance, and trades change those balance.     One could withdraw "fake" BTC just as easily as selling "fake" USD for BTC and withdrawing that.

The likely reason for faking USD is simply because that is the exploit the hacker founds.  Hacker found a way to add USD to his USD balance.  Once had had that why try hacking any further.  Give yourself huge amounts of USD, buy BTC and remove them from the exchange.
If it was a SQL injection (extremely likely), it should have been just as easy to add BTC. I suspect the hacker may be intentionally messing with the exchange.

if BTC-e wasn't protected against  SQL injection.... that's just sad...


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: adamstgBit on July 31, 2012, 02:17:38 AM
Perhaps someone at BTC-E got hacked, and bought all the BTC they could.

If so, they may not be able to withdraw.
I vote hack vs. scam vs. clever stunt by the exchange to get more deposits.

i lol'd  :D


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Darktongue on July 31, 2012, 02:19:07 AM


30BTC
40LTC
22NMC



Flush.......



Thank you come again~!


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Chalkbot on July 31, 2012, 02:19:18 AM
Is there a reliable way of knowing how many of these fraudulently purchased BTC made it out of the exchange?


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: ydenys on July 31, 2012, 02:20:16 AM
While mildly exiting, it is actually no fun. Are you, guys, saying that someone can ‘inject’ fake btc into major exchange/service provider, then exchange between the currencies/withdraw and the surplus of the coins would be recorded into the blockchain?


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: jwzguy on July 31, 2012, 02:21:27 AM
While mildly exiting, it is actually no fun. Are you, guys, saying that someone can ‘inject’ fake btc into major exchange/service provider, then exchange between the currencies/withdraw and the surplus of the coins would be recorded into the blockchain?
Major doesn't mean secure. BTC-e always looked sketchy as hell to me.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on July 31, 2012, 02:21:53 AM
I understand all that. What I was saying is that simply putting 50000 in the BTC balance box doesn't mean there is actually 500000 BTC there.

Well obviously the attacker can only withdraw the max in the hot wallet (or any per day limit unless compromised). 
That limit is the same regardless of if the attacker "fakes" BTC or "faked" USD to build up his BTC balance.

Say the hot wallet only had 10,000 BTC (hopefully it had a lot less) and the hacker was able to compromise the withdraw limit (by using multiple accounts).

"fake" 50,000 BTC you can only withdraw 10,000 BTC
"fake" $1M USD and buy 50,000 BTC you can still only withdraw 10,000 BTC.

Once the hot wallet is empty the hacker is "maxed out" regardless of what tricks he pulls.

Unless BTC-E is very stupid incoming deposits should go to the COLD WALLET thus not increase the amount stolen.



Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: hazek on July 31, 2012, 02:22:41 AM
They wouldn't be able to withdraw any USD since it's fake. Saying you have 500000 fake BTC on BTC-e doesn't mean anything if you don't actually have the keys to those coins in an actual wallet. They used fake USD to buy real BTC then ride off into the sunset laughing.

Dude.  All exchanges use a pooled wallet.  There is no such things "your" BTC or "your BTC" wallet on BTC-E, MtGox or any other exchange.  The exchange simply has one (or more) hot and/or cold wallets.  Then they maintain a database of each user's balance, and trades change those balance.     One could withdraw "fake" BTC just as easily as selling "fake" USD for BTC and withdrawing that.

The likely reason for faking USD is simply because that is the exploit the hacker founds.  Hacker found a way to add USD to his USD balance.  Once had had that why try hacking any further.  Give yourself huge amounts of USD, buy BTC and remove them from the exchange.
If it was a SQL injection (extremely likely), it should have been just as easy to add BTC. I suspect the hacker may be intentionally messing with the exchange.

New theory: hacker emptied the BTC-e BTC wallet first and all that's happening now is him having some fun with the other users..


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on July 31, 2012, 02:22:58 AM
While mildly exiting, it is actually no fun. Are you, guys, saying that someone can ‘inject’ fake btc into major exchange/service provider, then exchange between the currencies/withdraw and the surplus of the coins would be recorded into the blockchain?

No.  Any "faking" of USD or BTC would be on BTC-E books.  The bad news is that the victims are now left with more coins & dollars on the books (BTC-e internal books) than actual coins.  No amount of hacking can produce BTC from nothing.  The attacker merely transfered the real wealth of victims with fake balances on BTC-e books.


The "good news" is hopefully BTC-e wasn't totally stupid and after Bitcoinica reduced the size of their hot wallet.   If the attacker cleaned out the hot wallet then the % that users will lose is the % that the hot wallet makes up of total funds. 

Example (numbers out of my ass):

Say prior to the hack BTC-e had
5,000 BTC in hot wallet
50,000 BTC in cold wallet (plus all new deposit going directly to cold wallet)
50,000 BTC equivelent in USD.

The 5,000 BTC may be gone but victims should still get $0.90 on the dollar of their combined BTC/USD balances.  Now if BTC-e ran one giant hot wallet with all incoming deposits going directly into the hot wallet then victims may have lost everything.




Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: BkkCoins on July 31, 2012, 02:24:05 AM
Only 36 BTC left. Game over soon... who's selling the last 5 BTC @ 99 each?

Maybe they don't have a COLD wallet. Maybe any amount of BTC you can buy in your account can be transferred out immediately. Maybe later today we'll hear that everyone who sold their BTC for super high was in fact giving them away because there are no USD anywhere to be found.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Aggro on July 31, 2012, 02:27:37 AM
This is probably not good news, but check on the spike on the picture, and the timing of it:

http://i50.tinypic.com/o7678m.png

Somebody is cleaning house I believe. I think those trying to deposit and speculate are in for a rude awakening.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: JoelKatz on July 31, 2012, 02:29:17 AM
New theory: hacker emptied the BTC-e BTC wallet first and all that's happening now is him having some fun with the other users..
Close. He's using the high price to induce others to refill it with real BTC deposits.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: bitcool on July 31, 2012, 02:31:48 AM
While mildly exiting, it is actually no fun. Are you, guys, saying that someone can ‘inject’ fake btc into major exchange/service provider, then exchange between the currencies/withdraw and the surplus of the coins would be recorded into the blockchain?

No.  Any "faking" of USD or BTC would be on BTC-E books.  The bad news is that the victims are now left with more coins on the books (BTC-e internal books) than actual coins.  No amount of hacking can produce BTC from nothing.
book entries vs cash on hand.

Ironically over there at btc-e, because too much fake usd was injected into the system, no one wants dollar and everybody try to get some BTC or LTC. It's what to come in the future.

btc-e is just ahead of us.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: ydenys on July 31, 2012, 02:32:26 AM
While mildly exiting, it is actually no fun. Are you, guys, saying that someone can ‘inject’ fake btc into major exchange/service provider, then exchange between the currencies/withdraw and the surplus of the coins would be recorded into the blockchain?

No.  Any "faking" of USD or BTC would be on BTC-E books.  The bad news is that the victims are now left with more coins on the books (BTC-e internal books) than actual coins.  No amount of hacking can produce BTC from nothing.

Yep, thanks D&T, i was worried there for a while – late hour here, wine. So, basically, both owner's and user's accounts were promptly emptied by the hackers, and then some remaining users emptied each other's accounts out of pure greed, plus all who was awake withdrew all funds. No more BTC-e.

I guess their withdrawal limits were too high then.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: EnergyVampire on July 31, 2012, 02:33:11 AM
Assuming the chat image pasted earlier was the real hacker comments, then the entire database is going to get purged. So if BTC-e didn't back up regularly, this is going to burn a ton of people.

Edit: this post of the comments: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=96802.msg1066651#msg1066651


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: bitcool on July 31, 2012, 02:33:17 AM
This is probably not good news, but check on the spike on the picture, and the timing of it:

http://i50.tinypic.com/o7678m.png

Somebody is cleaning house I believe. I think those trying to deposit and speculate are in for a rude awakening.
Not really. I was able to withdraw from btce many minutes after the price spiked to 40s.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: dree12 on July 31, 2012, 02:35:39 AM
Assuming the chat image pasted earlier was the real hacker comments, then the entire database is going to get purged. So if BTC-e didn't back up regularly, this is going to burn a ton of people.
They are probably not.

I believe this was a SQL injection. There are a few telltale signs:

  • The event was sudden.
  • The hacking was weak. If the hacker had access to the server, they may be able to empty the hot wallet directly. Instead, the hacker had to rely on BTC-E withdrawal.
  • The hacking seemed to involve a simple UPDATE of the USD value.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Shadow383 on July 31, 2012, 02:36:06 AM
This is probably not good news, but check on the spike on the picture, and the timing of it:

http://i50.tinypic.com/o7678m.png

Somebody is cleaning house I believe. I think those trying to deposit and speculate are in for a rude awakening.
Not really. I was able to withdraw from btce many minutes after the price spiked to 40s.
Suggesting that they probably don't have cold storage in place - sounds an awful lot like the maximum amount that can be withdrawn is everything on the exchange.

Are people still getting BTC out?
Does anyone there even still have any?  :D


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: BkkCoins on July 31, 2012, 02:37:22 AM
Hmmm. Let's see. What's the time zone in Russia. I'm guessing about 4AM roughly.
Anyone know who to call to wake them up and freeze the exchange?


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: dree12 on July 31, 2012, 02:37:56 AM
Hmmm. Let's see. What's the time zone in Russia. I'm guessing about 4AM roughly.
Anyone know who to call to wake them up and freeze the exchange?
It is 6:37 in Moscow.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Herodes on July 31, 2012, 02:42:25 AM
Hmmm. Let's see. What's the time zone in Russia. I'm guessing about 4AM roughly.
Anyone know who to call to wake them up and freeze the exchange?
It is 6:37 in Moscow.


Time for the first vodka of the day then !  ;D


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Bitcoin Oz on July 31, 2012, 02:43:17 AM
The hacker injected fake usd ? My money is on Ben Bernanke.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: terrytibbs on July 31, 2012, 02:45:01 AM
The hacker injected fake usd ? My money is on Ben Bernanke.
...or his Russian doppelgänger.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: TTBit on July 31, 2012, 02:45:28 AM
Um... no. 2.18 of it to: 12JGzgb7ezdp5UT4EoJN3Spcn3P8fyyFav
http://blockexplorer.com/address/12JGzgb7ezdp5UT4EoJN3Spcn3P8fyyFav
0BTC
Did you get any out successfully?

No, that is first few. Waiting for some confirms.

1 confirm on the withdraws. Still 20 bid for 13.45, but able to sleep now.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: ThiagoCMC on July 31, 2012, 02:46:59 AM
OMG... I had 180 Bitcoins there... Jesus...

My latest withdraw at btc-e webpage says "confirmed", but nothing reached my wallet yet.

40 Bitcoins was "sold" there... And 140 Bitcoins are stucked at some point there... In Russia... Damn!

Jesus no, please no...

Please... no... Oh God...  lol

My documentation:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=40889.msg1066779#msg1066779

I have screenshots... To remember...  Damn...  :-/


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on July 31, 2012, 02:47:04 AM
Not really. I was able to withdraw from btce many minutes after the price spiked to 40s.

You are like the guy who says riots are good because he got a free TV. :)

Sure some withdraws may have made it through before the attacker emptied the hot wallet but 99% of people who tried to capitalize on $40 BTC are stuck with worthless $40 IOUs.  You may have lucked out but that doesn't mean a massive amount of economic damage didn't occur.

Plus I am pissed because I had 0.0087382 BTC stuck there from months ago because it was below the withdraw limit.   DAMN YOU HACKER!


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Cranky4u on July 31, 2012, 02:47:52 AM
Btter hope this does not hit mainstream media...another BTC robbery will only shake the BTC tree more and eventually result in a collapse


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: dree12 on July 31, 2012, 02:48:44 AM
Um... no. 2.18 of it to: 12JGzgb7ezdp5UT4EoJN3Spcn3P8fyyFav
http://blockexplorer.com/address/12JGzgb7ezdp5UT4EoJN3Spcn3P8fyyFav
0BTC
Did you get any out successfully?

No, that is first few. Waiting for some confirms.

1 confirm on the withdraws. Still 20 bid for 13.45, but able to sleep now.
If it is true that there is no cold wallet, you should definitely get all BTC back (as long as there was no fractional reserve). There shouldn't be a shortage of BTC because none was hacked in.

USD, on the other hand, was injected. It's a race to sell the USD as fast as possible now.

OMG... I had 180 Bitcoins there... Jesus...

My latest withdraw at btc-e webpage says "confirmed", but nothing reached my wallet yet.

40 Bitcoins was "sold" there... And 140 Bitcoins are stucked at some point there... In Russia... Damn!

Jesus no, please no...

Please... no... Oh God...  lol

My documentation:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=40889.msg1066779#msg1066779

I have screenshots... To remember...  Damn...  :-/
Your bitcoin, as long as you withdraw it, should still arrive. Good luck.

Unfortunately, you might have to write off your USD, or sell it at a massive loss. There is no way BTC-E has enough to pay out the USD.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: bitcool on July 31, 2012, 02:50:05 AM
what if the btce price is real? wake up mtgox, you have been dooped.  ;)


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: iCEBREAKER on July 31, 2012, 02:51:23 AM
OMG, just what we need, another bitcoin disaster.

IKR?  It's been at least 12 hours since our last incident of absolute mayhem.  I was starting to get bored.

http://i.imgur.com/ns11D.png


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: paraipan on July 31, 2012, 02:52:05 AM
Is this legit?


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Yuhfhrh on July 31, 2012, 02:52:39 AM
I'm just patiently waiting for mtgox to catch up to the game. :D


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Herodes on July 31, 2012, 02:54:32 AM
Btter hope this does not hit mainstream media...another BTC robbery will only shake the BTC tree more and eventually result in a collapse

How many banks got robbed for US dollars throughout history ?


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: dree12 on July 31, 2012, 02:54:36 AM
Here are my suggestions for all victims.

1. Sell ALL USD immediately. There is almost certainly not enough USD to pay out.
2. Withdraw ALL BTC immediately. Unless fractional reserve was employed, there should be enough. No BTC was reported to have injected, so this may be your only option of financial recovery.
3. Change passwords for other websites immediately. The database is likely to leak, if a SQL injection was the culprit.

Best of luck to all victims.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: ThiagoCMC on July 31, 2012, 03:03:31 AM

.....

Your bitcoin, as long as you withdraw it, should still arrive. Good luck.

Unfortunately, you might have to write off your USD, or sell it at a massive loss. There is no way BTC-E has enough to pay out the USD.

I do not want withdraw "fake USD" from BTC-e... I will not touch that USD.

I just want, at least, those 140 BTC (total is 180 I had there for sure), withdraw still "pending" (i.e. not reached my wallet)...  :-/

Good luck for those that feel a bit lost now...  :-P

This is less worse than the "life with the government and banks"... lol


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: JoelKatz on July 31, 2012, 03:04:30 AM
1. Sell ALL USD immediately. There is almost certainly not enough USD to pay out.
How? By buying BTC at $45?

Quote
2. Withdraw ALL BTC immediately. Unless fractional reserve was employed, there should be enough. No BTC was reported to have injected, so this may be your only option of financial recovery.
I agree that people should do this, but it's not going to work. The exchange has no rational justification for fully reimbursing bitcoin holders while screwing over usd holders.

Quote
3. Change passwords for other websites immediately. The database is likely to leak, if a SQL injection was the culprit.
Definitely. Better safe than sorry.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: jwzguy on July 31, 2012, 03:04:42 AM
Here are my suggestions for all victims.
2. Withdraw ALL BTC immediately. Unless fractional reserve was employed, there should be enough. No BTC was reported to have injected, so this may be your only option of financial recovery.

Best of luck to all victims.

Unless they had a chunk of BTC in cold storage. Then there won't be enough to withdraw.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Rubberduckie on July 31, 2012, 03:05:32 AM
only 40 BTC left for sale?  :o


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: dree12 on July 31, 2012, 03:08:19 AM

.....

Your bitcoin, as long as you withdraw it, should still arrive. Good luck.

Unfortunately, you might have to write off your USD, or sell it at a massive loss. There is no way BTC-E has enough to pay out the USD.

I do not want withdraw "fake USD" from BTC-e... I will not touch that USD.

I just want, at least, those 140 BTC (total is 180 I had there for sure), withdraw still "pending" (i.e. not reached my wallet)...  :-/

Good luck for those that feel a bit lost now...  :-P

This is less worse than the "life with the government and banks"... lol
Unless one of the following is true, your BTC withdrawal will still go through.

  • The hacker hacked in BTC as well.
  • BTC-E used fractional reserve.
  • BTC-E had a cold wallet.
  • BTC-E wakes up and discovers the hack.

I strongly suggest you discard the USD by selling it, while it is still worth ~1/5 of its actual value. The 40 BTC that is missing has been converted to USD, most likely. You can still retrieve some of that value from it.

1. Sell ALL USD immediately. There is almost certainly not enough USD to pay out.
How? By buying BTC at $45?

Quote
2. Withdraw ALL BTC immediately. Unless fractional reserve was employed, there should be enough. No BTC was reported to have injected, so this may be your only option of financial recovery.
I agree that people should do this, but it's not going to work. The exchange has no rational justification for fully reimbursing bitcoin holders while screwing over usd holders.

Quote
3. Change passwords for other websites immediately. The database is likely to leak, if a SQL injection was the culprit.
Definitely. Better safe than sorry.
1. Yes. This is a massive write-off, but it is the only option.
2. Unless the exchange takes action, the BTC withdrawals should be fully covered and automatic (barring the probability of a cold wallet, but given BTC-E's past security history.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: smoothie on July 31, 2012, 03:13:25 AM
From the BTC-E chat box:

Quote
MrWubbles: now logging in as support to troll more
MrWubbles: dev account has been deleted
MrWubbles: dev account has been deleted
MrWubbles: support is being deleted now
MrWubbles: dumping everyone's wallets
MrWubbles: bitinstant reserves have been leaked for days
MrWubbles: all your base
MrWubbles: I'm Mr Wubbles of wub fame
MrWubbles: Expect Mass Database Leak Soon
MrWubbles: wub database destroyed

That can't be good, but how do we know he wasn't just trollololing?

If what he said was true, then no one could withdraw bitcoins. People have claimed to have been able to withdraw as recently as the last 5-10 minutes.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: RoloTonyBrownTown on July 31, 2012, 03:15:14 AM
Well, Zhou needed to get the money to pay back everyone from somewhere I guess :D


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: BkkCoins on July 31, 2012, 03:16:15 AM
Isn't this a "Reverse Fire Sale"... all BTC must be bought.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: tiberiandusk on July 31, 2012, 03:16:45 AM
From the BTC-E chat box:

Quote
MrWubbles: now logging in as support to troll more
MrWubbles: dev account has been deleted
MrWubbles: dev account has been deleted
MrWubbles: support is being deleted now
MrWubbles: dumping everyone's wallets
MrWubbles: bitinstant reserves have been leaked for days
MrWubbles: all your base
MrWubbles: I'm Mr Wubbles of wub fame
MrWubbles: Expect Mass Database Leak Soon
MrWubbles: wub database destroyed

That can't be good, but how do we know he wasn't just trollololing?

If what he said was true, then no one could withdraw bitcoins. People have claimed to have been able to withdraw as recently as the last 5-10 minutes.

I don't trust those claims. I'm guessing it's either the hacker with multiple accounts or people helping the hacker by convincing people that they can still withdraw.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: BkkCoins on July 31, 2012, 03:17:54 AM
$90 and counting... and.... and... gone.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: ThiagoCMC on July 31, 2012, 03:18:01 AM

.....

Your bitcoin, as long as you withdraw it, should still arrive. Good luck.

Unfortunately, you might have to write off your USD, or sell it at a massive loss. There is no way BTC-E has enough to pay out the USD.

I do not want withdraw "fake USD" from BTC-e... I will not touch that USD.

I just want, at least, those 140 BTC (total is 180 I had there for sure), withdraw still "pending" (i.e. not reached my wallet)...  :-/

Good luck for those that feel a bit lost now...  :-P

This is less worse than the "life with the government and banks"... lol
Unless one of the following is true, your BTC withdrawal will still go through.

  • The hacker hacked in BTC as well.
  • BTC-E used fractional reserve.
  • BTC-E had a cold wallet.
  • BTC-E wakes up and discovers the hack.

Yes, I'm telling the truth. It is all here registered in my btc-e account anyway...  ;-)


I strongly suggest you discard the USD by selling it, while it is still worth ~1/5 of its actual value. The 40 BTC that is missing has been converted to USD, most likely. You can still retrieve some of that value from it.


How so?!


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: JoelKatz on July 31, 2012, 03:19:27 AM
FWIW, I do believe the hacker is using the name 'MrWubbles'.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: dree12 on July 31, 2012, 03:20:01 AM

.....

Your bitcoin, as long as you withdraw it, should still arrive. Good luck.

Unfortunately, you might have to write off your USD, or sell it at a massive loss. There is no way BTC-E has enough to pay out the USD.

I do not want withdraw "fake USD" from BTC-e... I will not touch that USD.

I just want, at least, those 140 BTC (total is 180 I had there for sure), withdraw still "pending" (i.e. not reached my wallet)...  :-/

Good luck for those that feel a bit lost now...  :-P

This is less worse than the "life with the government and banks"... lol
Unless one of the following is true, your BTC withdrawal will still go through.

  • The hacker hacked in BTC as well.
  • BTC-E used fractional reserve.
  • BTC-E had a cold wallet.
  • BTC-E wakes up and discovers the hack.

Yes, I'm telling the truth. It is all here registered in my btc-e account anyway...  ;-)
I know you are telling the truth. I was reassuring you that the withdrawal will likely eventually go through.


I strongly suggest you discard the USD by selling it, while it is still worth ~1/5 of its actual value. The 40 BTC that is missing has been converted to USD, most likely. You can still retrieve some of that value from it.


How so?!
Did you have a sell order open? That may be the reason your BTC is now missing. (since price spiked to 99, all sell orders must have been fulfilled).


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: 1QaZxSw2 on July 31, 2012, 03:20:45 AM
Well, Zhou needed to get the money to pay back everyone from somewhere I guess :D

LOL


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: burnside on July 31, 2012, 03:20:58 AM
I chickened out, ran away with my bitcoins while I still could.  :P

Smart and as a bonus you dont have to feel guilty about contributing to the death of another exchange just to make a fast buck...

Ditto here.  Canceled all my pending trades and withdrew.  2 confirms so far, I think I might have beat the clock.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: kiba on July 31, 2012, 03:22:07 AM
Btter hope this does not hit mainstream media...another BTC robbery will only shake the BTC tree more and eventually result in a collapse

You couldn't ask for a worse hack/theft than bitcoinica. If we aren't screwed then, we ain't screwed now.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: dree12 on July 31, 2012, 03:23:14 AM
FWIW, I do believe the hacker is using the name 'MrWubbles'.
I do believe MrWubbles is falsely taking credit. -retracted needless accusation-, however.

Nobody seems to have received payment back.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: ThiagoCMC on July 31, 2012, 03:25:12 AM
FWIW, I do believe the hacker is using the name 'MrWubbles'.

Real Time!!


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: wndrbr3d on July 31, 2012, 03:25:24 AM
It looks like some hacker/scammer injected a huge amount of FAKE capital and bought the ACTUAL coins on the market.

I don't think a hack like this means they have access to the wallet, it just looks like they pumped a bunch of funny money USD into the market to make the transactions legit. I suspect the coins are giggity-gone at this point.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: JoelKatz on July 31, 2012, 03:26:18 AM
FWIW, I do believe the hacker is using the name 'MrWubbles'.
I do believe MrWubbles is falsely taking credit. SupaDupaJenkins may be the culprit, however.
It's possible it's false, but it seems convincing to me. Maybe I'm too quick to trust people when they say I can't trust them.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: dree12 on July 31, 2012, 03:28:30 AM
FWIW, I do believe the hacker is using the name 'MrWubbles'.
I do believe MrWubbles is falsely taking credit. SupaDupaJenkins may be the culprit, however.
It's possible it's false, but it seems convincing to me. Maybe I'm too quick to trust people when they say I can't trust them.
I'm monitoring the btc-e chat, and they seem to believe Mr. Wubbles is trolling.

He had obviously lied before about deleting the database. If Mr. Wubbles had the ability to do that, there would be a much easier way of "hurting the exchange" without hurting its users: withdraw the hot wallet directly.

I also find it hard to believe Wubbles would take more than 5 blocks to pay out.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: FreeMoney on July 31, 2012, 03:31:37 AM
FWIW, I do believe the hacker is using the name 'MrWubbles'.
I do believe MrWubbles is falsely taking credit. SupaDupaJenkins may be the culprit, however.
It's possible it's false, but it seems convincing to me. Maybe I'm too quick to trust people when they say I can't trust them.
I'm monitoring the btc-e chat, and they seem to believe Mr. Wubbles is trolling.

He had obviously lied before about deleting the database. If Mr. Wubbles had the ability to do that, there would be a much easier way of "hurting the exchange" without hurting its users: withdraw the hot wallet directly.

I'm pretty sure that would 'hurt the users' too. Though it wouldn't lure others in.



Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: dree12 on July 31, 2012, 03:32:37 AM
FWIW, I do believe the hacker is using the name 'MrWubbles'.
I do believe MrWubbles is falsely taking credit. SupaDupaJenkins may be the culprit, however.
It's possible it's false, but it seems convincing to me. Maybe I'm too quick to trust people when they say I can't trust them.
I'm monitoring the btc-e chat, and they seem to believe Mr. Wubbles is trolling.

He had obviously lied before about deleting the database. If Mr. Wubbles had the ability to do that, there would be a much easier way of "hurting the exchange" without hurting its users: withdraw the hot wallet directly.

I'm pretty sure that would 'hurt the users' too. Though it wouldn't lure others in.
This hurts the users more. Mr. Wubbles has, in this way, not been consistent. At least one of his statements was a lie.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: EnergyVampire on July 31, 2012, 03:33:27 AM
Which payment processors and exchanges accept BTC-e codes?


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: tiberiandusk on July 31, 2012, 03:34:19 AM
Which payment processors and exchanges accept BTC-e codes?

None anymore.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: JoelKatz on July 31, 2012, 03:34:25 AM
I'm monitoring the btc-e chat, and they seem to believe Mr. Wubbles is trolling.
He is. That doesn't mean he's not the hacker.

Quote
He had obviously lied before about deleting the database. If Mr. Wubbles had the ability to do that, there would be a much easier way of "hurting the exchange" without hurting its users: withdraw the hot wallet directly.
I agree. The hacker cannot do that, they can only buy BTC and withdraw them, most likely.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Bjork on July 31, 2012, 03:35:54 AM
is it wrong that I'm hoping the hacker dumps those coins on gox so i can buy em up cheap

  :-X


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Spekulatius on July 31, 2012, 03:36:04 AM
Dont wanna scare anyone, but look:
https://blockchain.info/tx-index/14019256/cce8c325893d90e1d99e116e9279cf2e3e3f5ae6703854020726a660d8491289

15k BTC now receiving 6 confirmations. Where are they heading to MtGox?


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on July 31, 2012, 03:36:12 AM
So as an experiment I deposited ~ 1 BTC sold if for USD, bought the BTC back using my USD balance and withdrew the 0.8 BTC.  Yeah i "lost" 0.2 BTC but the point was to test the liquidity of the BTC side.

This makes me very confident that my (and others) original theory was correct. The attacker ONLY increased the amount of USD.  Period.  Nothing else.  There also appears to be some (at least 0.8 BTC as of 2 minute ago) BTC left.  Likely the hacker hit some per account limit or got his account suspended preventing him for getting 100% of the BTC.  

So what that means if you will very soon see HYPER INFLATION on the BTC-E exchange.  Think of BTC as the "goods" in the BTC-E economy.  The BTC-E USD money supply has been massively inflated but the amount of "goods" (BTC) hasn't.  This is the recipe for massive inflation.  It was inflated by the hacker/counterfeiter.  Normally we think of central banks as the one doing inflating and generally that is true in major economies however any increase in money supply  (even illegal ones like counterfeiting) causes inflation  As people realize this they will dump USD for BTC driving the price higher and higher and higher.  $50, $100, $500, maybe even $25,000 USD per BTC.

There is SOME (who knows how much) real BTC on the exchange but anyone hanging on to USD "profits" is an idiot.  Selling USD for BTC at 50%, 70% even 90% loss is better than holding on to a hyperinflating currency.  You may say "the money supply is no longer inflating" while that is true, but price action often lags the actual increase in the money supply.  If the hacker increased the USD money supply by say a factor of 50x then eventually USD:BTC will rise by a factor of 50x.  Under that scenario BTC-E "USD" are worth only 1/50th of "real USD".    

How much did the hacker inflate the BTC-E USD money supply?  I don't have a clue ... but do you want to find out holding BTC or BTC-E "USD?"


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Fiyasko on July 31, 2012, 03:36:27 AM
woah, I wonder howmany people are gaining/loosing money from this guy


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: dree12 on July 31, 2012, 03:37:15 AM
So as an experiment I deposited BTC sold if for USD, bought the BTC back and withdrew.  I got my "test" 0.8 BTC out of the exchange (minus some trading losses).

This makes me very confident that my (and others) original theory was correct.  The attacker ONLY increased the amount of USD.  Period.  Nothing else.  There also appears to be some (at least 0.8 BTC as of 2 minute ago) BTC left.  Likely the hacker hit some per account limit. 

So what that means if you will very soon see HYPER INFLATION on the BTC-E exchange.  Think of BTC as the "goods".  The BTC-E USD money supply has been massively inflated.  As people realize this they will dump USD for BTC driving the price higher and higher and higher.  $50, $100, $500, maybe even $25,000 USD per BTC.

There is SOME (who knows how much) real BTC on the exchange but anyone hanging on to USD "profits" is an idiot.  Selling USD for BTC at 50%, 70% even 90% loss is better than holding on to a hyperinflating currency.  You may say "the money supply is no longer inflating" while that is true price action often lags the actual increase in the money supply.  If the hacker increased the USD money supply by say a factor of 50x then eventually USD:BTC will rise by a factor of 50x. 

No way BTC-E can pay out all the fake USD so get into the store of value ... BTC.
Well said. I've been urging this for a while.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: mb300sd on July 31, 2012, 03:37:33 AM
Theres another possibility, and lets hope that it is - some whale's LR account got hacked, and the USD on BTC-e is real.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: boozer on July 31, 2012, 03:37:46 AM
Wow, over 94,000 BTC in block 191622....  With all the transactions in the last few hours, definitely a lot of coins moving around.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: JoelKatz on July 31, 2012, 03:41:24 AM
I posted the BTC address for my jet ski wear ring fund in the chat, 1KYZrqHjJAXntGhpBVqv9gdoGbFNircvKn, and someone sent it .01 BTC.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: dree12 on July 31, 2012, 03:45:36 AM
Maybe btce had their own reserve stacked on the sells, thats a lot of coins.
That would be a disaster. If true, even BTC will fail to maintain value.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: ThiagoCMC on July 31, 2012, 03:46:20 AM
Why the btc-e is still running?!?!


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: dree12 on July 31, 2012, 03:47:33 AM
Why the btc-e is still running?!?!
They have not woken up yet; it's still 7:47 in Moscow.

Any luck on your withdrawal? You should be hoping BTC-E still runs!


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: niooron on July 31, 2012, 03:47:55 AM
Why the btc-e is still running?!?!

The owner is sleeping, and they have no contact info.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: kiba on July 31, 2012, 03:48:46 AM
The owner is up for a rude awakening.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: dree12 on July 31, 2012, 03:50:12 AM
So what that means if you will very soon see HYPER INFLATION on the BTC-E exchange.  Think of BTC as the "goods" in the BTC-E economy.  The BTC-E USD money supply has been massively inflated but the amount of "goods" (BTC) hasn't.  This is the recipe for massive inflation.  It was inflated by the hacker/counterfeiter.  Normally we think of central banks as the one doing inflating and generally that is true in major economies however any increase in money supply  (even illegal ones like counterfeiting) causes inflation  As people realize this they will dump USD for BTC driving the price higher and higher and higher.  $50, $100, $500, maybe even $25,000 USD per BTC.
By the way, there is a hard cap at $99.99 USD per BTC. So, unfortunately, that will be the equilibrium price. The rest of the BTC will not be sold.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: kiba on July 31, 2012, 03:53:19 AM
Huge spam of small transfers just stopped on bitcoin monitor

Wonder what that means? Are the bitcoin holders who have an account there are made whole or wut? Seems unlikely to me.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: ThiagoCMC on July 31, 2012, 03:54:24 AM
Why the btc-e is still running?!?!
They have not woken up yet; it's still 7:47 in Moscow.

Any luck on your withdrawal? You should be hoping BTC-E still runs!

Still pending somewhere at BTC-e subsystem/queue... Thanks for asking!  ^^
It still runs but, seems useless... Right?!  :-P


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Mike Jones on July 31, 2012, 03:54:50 AM
You don't use MySQL or any database template for finances. You can't go any less than custom for these types of things.

BTC-E learned the hard way.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: dree12 on July 31, 2012, 03:54:59 AM
Clearly, Mr. Wubbles is trolling. He claimed he:

Code:
MrWubbles: I stole the exchanges coin
MrWubbles: in their cold storage wallet

Firstly, it is unlikely btc-e has a cold storage wallet. Secondly, you'd have to be a moron to believe that it can be stolen (as that would require physical access to the computer.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: kiba on July 31, 2012, 03:56:30 AM

Firstly, it is unlikely btc-e has a cold storage wallet. Secondly, you'd have to be a moron to believe that it can be stolen (as that would require physical access to the computer.

Why is it unlikely btc-e have no cold storage wallet. Doesn't all exchange have a cold wallet?


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Garr255 on July 31, 2012, 03:57:15 AM
MrWubbles is the self proclaimed hacker, and look what he has to say...

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/9542654/btc-e.JPG


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: dree12 on July 31, 2012, 03:58:13 AM

Firstly, it is unlikely btc-e has a cold storage wallet. Secondly, you'd have to be a moron to believe that it can be stolen (as that would require physical access to the computer.

Why is it unlikely btc-e have no cold storage wallet. Doesn't all exchange have a cold wallet?
Btc-e does not have a good track record for security. Considering a SQL injection likely killed them, a cold wallet would be surprising.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: silverbox on July 31, 2012, 03:58:40 AM
I like how on the BTC-E page it says:

"Our advantages:

 •Trading in automatic mode.
•Addition USD deposits within 24 hour
Instant deposit/withdrawal all coin
•USD Withdrawal within 24 hours
"

Yup really advantageous..


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Herodes on July 31, 2012, 03:59:04 AM
Clearly, Mr. Wubbles is trolling. He claimed he:

Code:
MrWubbles: I stole the exchanges coin
MrWubbles: in their cold storage wallet

Firstly, it is unlikely btc-e has a cold storage wallet. Secondly, you'd have to be a moron to believe that it can be stolen (as that would require physical access to the computer.

Agreed, unlikely they have cold storage.

However, there may be people who have backups of the cold storage wallet on the same live system, and if the vps (if it runs on a vps) is compromised, there may be clues leading to further compromise of personal computers for instance, if more servers are used.

Poor admin (unless he's in on it of course)


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: ThiagoCMC on July 31, 2012, 04:00:53 AM
Checkmate BTC-e!


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: dree12 on July 31, 2012, 04:01:33 AM
Clearly, Mr. Wubbles is trolling. He claimed he:

Code:
MrWubbles: I stole the exchanges coin
MrWubbles: in their cold storage wallet

Firstly, it is unlikely btc-e has a cold storage wallet. Secondly, you'd have to be a moron to believe that it can be stolen (as that would require physical access to the computer.

Agreed, unlikely they have cold storage.

However, there may be people who have backups of the cold storage wallet on the same live system, and if the vps (if it runs on a vps) is compromised, there may be clues leading to further compromise of personal computers for instance, if more servers are used.

Poor admin (unless he's in on it of course)
It is only remotely likely that the VPS was compromised. If it was, there would be more constructive things for the hacker to do than buy up all those coins. The hacker obviously isn't stupid, so the chance the VPS was compromised is low.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: kiba on July 31, 2012, 04:02:20 AM
It is only remotely likely that the VPS was compromised. If it was, there would be more constructive things for the hacker to do than buy up all those coins. The hacker obviously isn't stupid, so the chance the VPS was compromised is low.

Given the bitcoinica hack, you shouldn't build your exchange on a VPS?


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: dree12 on July 31, 2012, 04:05:24 AM
It is only remotely likely that the VPS was compromised. If it was, there would be more constructive things for the hacker to do than buy up all those coins. The hacker obviously isn't stupid, so the chance the VPS was compromised is low.

Given the bitcoinica hack, you shouldn't build your exchange on a VPS?
And the chances that BTC-E cares, much less heeds, security advice is?


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Bjork on July 31, 2012, 04:07:41 AM
Why can't I talk in btc-e chat?


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: mav on July 31, 2012, 04:08:54 AM
You don't use MySQL or any database template for finances. You can't go any less than custom for these types of things.

BTC-E learned the hard way.

No database template... So what sort of custom solutions are you suggesting? Custom database software? I would have thought that a properly set up and designed database would be excellent for financial purposes due to the ACID nature of them. Please do share your thoughts on this, I am very interested.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on July 31, 2012, 04:09:13 AM
Why is it unlikely btc-e have no cold storage wallet. Doesn't all exchange have a cold wallet?

Not in mother Russia apparently. 

Why can't I talk in btc-e chat?

You likely logged out.  Try logging back in.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: TraderTimm on July 31, 2012, 04:18:34 AM
Damn man, we *so* don't need this. I can only guess how this is going to spread throughout the internet. My sympathies to those affected, but honestly all you can really do to mitigate risk is not hold balances. I realize that isn't a choice everyone can stick to, but it sure helps.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Mike Jones on July 31, 2012, 04:19:21 AM
You don't use MySQL or any database template for finances. You can't go any less than custom for these types of things.

BTC-E learned the hard way.

No database template... So what sort of custom solutions are you suggesting? Custom database software? I would have thought that a properly set up and designed database would be excellent for financial purposes due to the ACID nature of them. Please do share your thoughts on this, I am very interested.
I don't know much. I just think database design (from the ground-up) should be structured and limited, especially when it comes to finances. Security should be inherent and you don't see that in one-size-fits-all solutions.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: kiwiasian on July 31, 2012, 04:26:38 AM
Has anyone tried buying/selling with success?


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Bjork on July 31, 2012, 04:28:51 AM
Has anyone tried buying/selling with success?

that's not the problem, the problem is withdrawing any USD (that doesn't exist)


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Tittiez on July 31, 2012, 04:30:36 AM
Has anyone been thinking.. That MAYBE this is REAL? Think about it, It is possible someone threw a million dollars onto btc-e from LR and fucked up the market. MAYBE YOU COULD SELL YOUR COINS FOR $60 RIGHT NOW.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: kentrolla on July 31, 2012, 04:30:44 AM
any thoughts on how this will effect the price of bitcoin?


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: kiwiasian on July 31, 2012, 04:31:27 AM
Has anyone tried buying/selling with success?

that's not the problem, the problem is withdrawing any USD (that doesn't exist)

Sell BTC for fake USD, then use that same fake USD to buy bitcoins back and withdraw to wallet. The USD may be fake and not actually there but it should still be able to be traded for BTC


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Tittiez on July 31, 2012, 04:31:31 AM
Has anyone tried buying/selling with success?

that's not the problem, the problem is withdrawing any USD (that doesn't exist)

USD Withdraws take up to 24 hours.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Bjork on July 31, 2012, 04:31:40 AM
Has anyone been thinking.. That MAYBE this is REAL? Think about it, It is possible someone threw a million dollars onto btc-e from LR and fucked up the market. MAYBE YOU COULD SELL YOUR COINS FOR $60 RIGHT NOW.

Why would they do that when they could buy on other exchanges for much less



Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: TraderTimm on July 31, 2012, 04:32:38 AM
I guess we'll find out if it is 'real' when it crosses the theoretical $99 barrier. I still think it is a hack. Bitcoin charts shows a recent spike of $80, so not long now...

http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/btceUSD#rg1ztgSzm1g10zm2g25


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: DiCE1904 on July 31, 2012, 04:34:29 AM
made 900USD off of the trade bubble. Traded the  USD into LTC to transfer out because I dont think that the website will still be there tomorrow....when I went to withdraw my LTC the page timed out, lost all my LTC lol. Easy come easy go. Hopefully that 900USD worth of LTC wasn't "Real"   :'(


oh well. it was fun while it lasted


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: cryptoanarchist on July 31, 2012, 04:34:32 AM
Just found out about this. Anyone else able to withdraw their BTC? The site shows my BTC withdraw as completed but its not showing up on my end yet.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Tittiez on July 31, 2012, 04:35:15 AM
Why would they do that when they could buy on other exchanges for much less

Because with the price fluctuating there is money to be made. I x4'd my money today because of this.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: ThiagoCMC on July 31, 2012, 04:35:23 AM
Just found out about this. Anyone else able to withdraw their BTC? The site shows my BTC withdraw as completed but its not showing up on my end yet.

Same here...


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: EnergyVampire on July 31, 2012, 04:36:25 AM
Has anyone been thinking.. That MAYBE this is REAL? Think about it, It is possible someone threw a million dollars onto btc-e from LR and fucked up the market. MAYBE YOU COULD SELL YOUR COINS FOR $60 RIGHT NOW.

Not a remote chance imo because:
1. Millionaires don't become millionaires by paying 5x-10x more than something is worth.
2. A millionaire wouldn't use any unknown random site hosted on a cloud to handle his/her finances.
3. There are way better methods to launder money without making a scene.

 :D


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Yankee (BitInstant) on July 31, 2012, 04:37:21 AM
BTC-E should be waking up now.

Will post an update when I speak to Alexey


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Bjork on July 31, 2012, 04:38:48 AM
Anyone who wants, is free to deposit their coins and sell them on BTC-E.

There are currently <20 BTC total depth, with roughly $200,000 USD worth of buy orders  ::)


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Tittiez on July 31, 2012, 04:39:08 AM
Not a remote chance imo because:
1. Millionaires don't become millionaires by paying 5x-10x more than something is worth.
2. A millionaire wouldn't use a site like BTC-e.
3. There are way better methods to launder money without making a scene.

 :D

Like I said before, I x4'd my money because of whatever happened. I'm sure he may have bought a few hundred REALLY LOW (~8.80), then sold that few hundred REALLY HIGH ($60) Rofl


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: jackmaninov on July 31, 2012, 04:40:10 AM
Anyone who wants, is free to deposit their coins and sell them on BTC-E.

There are currently <20 BTC total depth, with roughly $200,000 USD worth of buy orders  ::)

I can feel that invisible hand at work!


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: kiwiasian on July 31, 2012, 04:40:20 AM
Not a remote chance imo because:
1. Millionaires don't become millionaires by paying 5x-10x more than something is worth.
2. A millionaire wouldn't use a site like BTC-e.
3. There are way better methods to launder money without making a scene.

 :D

Like I said before, I x4'd my money because of whatever happened. I'm sure he may have bought a few hundred REALLY LOW (~8.80), then sold that few hundred REALLY HIGH ($60) Rofl

Well were you able to withdraw your money successfully?


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Bjork on July 31, 2012, 04:40:34 AM
BTC-E should be waking up now.

Will post an update when I speak to Alexey

I hope this turns out as good as it can... for you and everyone else


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: silverbox on July 31, 2012, 04:40:43 AM
Not a remote chance imo because:
1. Millionaires don't become millionaires by paying 5x-10x more than something is worth.
2. A millionaire wouldn't use a site like BTC-e.
3. There are way better methods to launder money without making a scene.

 :D

Like I said before, I x4'd my money because of whatever happened. I'm sure he may have bought a few hundred REALLY LOW (~8.80), then sold that few hundred REALLY HIGH ($60) Rofl

I have increased my BTC-e holdings 112x today!


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Tittiez on July 31, 2012, 04:42:10 AM
Well were you able to withdraw your money successfully?

http://i.imgur.com/ismhU.png

Sent 2BTC in, came out with 9.98, I'm sorry x5'd.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Bjork on July 31, 2012, 04:42:41 AM
An admin just logged on to BTC-E, he has yet to say anything


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: finkleshnorts on July 31, 2012, 04:43:18 AM
Anyone who wants, is free to deposit their coins and sell them on BTC-E.

There are currently <20 BTC total depth, with roughly $200,000 USD worth of buy orders  ::)

worth a shot :P


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Yankee (BitInstant) on July 31, 2012, 04:50:05 AM
An admin just logged on to BTC-E, he has yet to say anything

I can confirm this was a hack to BTC-e


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: mb300sd on July 31, 2012, 04:50:12 AM
An admin just logged on to BTC-E, he has yet to say anything

Hes talking on the russian side, no idea what hes saying...


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: ThiagoCMC on July 31, 2012, 04:50:17 AM
BTC-E should be waking up now.

Will post an update when I speak to Alexey

Any news bro?!
Thanks!


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: iambaboon on July 31, 2012, 04:50:35 AM
BTC-E should be waking up now.

Will post an update when I speak to Alexey
Somebody was giving answers on skype:
Quote
[03:32:07 EEST] Hero: hi, u there ?
[03:32:14 EEST] btc-e.support: yes
[03:32:20 EEST] btc-e.support: (handshake)
[03:32:22 EEST] Hero: did you see the huge buy ?
[03:32:48 EEST] Hero: does not seem normal
[03:34:09 EEST] btc-e.support: yes
[03:34:38 EEST] Hero: could you look into it ?
[03:34:47 EEST] Hero: seems like somebody got hold of a lot of cash
[03:35:09 EEST] Hero: and wants to flee with btc
[03:36:22 EEST] btc-e.support: nikname. link
[03:36:51 EEST] Hero: there is no bitcoin left man
[03:36:59 EEST] Hero: somebody is buying everything on btc-e
[03:37:17 EEST] Hero: nobody in their right mind would do that
[03:37:25 EEST] Hero: unles they didn't care about cash
[03:37:49 EEST] Hero: my nick is Hero2
[03:37:53 EEST] Hero: but my account is 0-0
[03:38:16 EEST] btc-e.support: scam?
[03:38:22 EEST] Hero: I don't know
[03:38:25 EEST] Hero: but look into it
[03:38:33 EEST] Hero: you can see who's buying
[03:38:38 EEST] Hero: I can't
[03:38:52 EEST] Hero: people already made small fortunes
[03:39:37 EEST] btc-e.support: well I see, thank you for the information
[03:42:07 EEST] btc-e.support: гoвopитe пo pyccки?
[03:42:31 EEST] Hero: I understand English
[03:42:40 EEST] btc-e.support: oк
[03:55:29 EEST] Hero: at least halt withdrawals
[03:55:33 EEST] Hero: till this is sorted out
[03:55:42 EEST] Hero: more than likely, the USD used to buy are not real
[03:55:50 EEST] Hero: fake account, or stolen USD
[03:57:33 EEST] btc-e.support: resort to the assistance of the police?
[03:57:57 EEST] Hero: man, just stop things now
[03:58:06 EEST] Hero: until u see what happened
[03:58:15 EEST] Hero: then you can go to police
[03:59:03 EEST] btc-e.support: okey
[03:59:16 EEST] Hero: if possible plug out the database
[03:59:30 EEST] Hero: and secure btc wallets
[03:59:47 EEST] Hero: in case u got hacked
[04:00:38 EEST] btc-e.support: [4:44:28] Hero3: Awesome! Listen, I just made a 140.06 Bitcoin deposit... 1 confirmation already...

Can you "release it" for me now?! Is that possible?! Please!  

I want to sell!  $_$



<<<
[04:01:17 EEST] Hero: exactly,
[04:01:25 EEST] Hero: somebody is buying all
[04:01:47 EEST] Hero: and people are selling
[04:01:52 EEST] Hero: they want the money
[04:01:56 EEST] Hero: it's crazy
[04:02:01 EEST] Hero: gold rush
[04:02:31 EEST] Hero: but somebody has already lost a lot of USD
[04:02:35 EEST] Hero: I don't know if you
[04:02:44 EEST] Hero: or clients
[04:02:46 EEST] Hero: or who
[04:03:27 EEST] btc-e.support: rather, I
[04:03:31 EEST] Hero: stop it man
[04:03:37 EEST] Hero: trading is still on
[04:03:40 EEST] Hero: wtf are you doing
[04:04:16 EEST] btc-e.support: you need to time. this is the same system
[04:06:26 EEST] * btc-e.support left the chat (Only people who have accepted contact request can be added).

The guy/girl didn't seem to understand much of what was going on.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Mushroomized on July 31, 2012, 04:50:56 AM
ripper2: PLZ HELP SUPPORT
ripper2: PLZ HELP SUPPORT
ripper2: PLZ HELP SUPPORT
ripper2: PLZ HELP SUPPORT
ripper2: PLZ HELP SUPPORT


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: ThiagoCMC on July 31, 2012, 04:53:50 AM
BTC-E should be waking up now.

Will post an update when I speak to Alexey
Somebody was giving answers on skype:
Quote
[03:32:07 EEST] Hero: hi, u there ?
[03:32:14 EEST] btc-e.support: yes
[03:32:20 EEST] btc-e.support: (handshake)
[03:32:22 EEST] Hero: did you see the huge buy ?
[03:32:48 EEST] Hero: does not seem normal
[03:34:09 EEST] btc-e.support: yes
[03:34:38 EEST] Hero: could you look into it ?
[03:34:47 EEST] Hero: seems like somebody got hold of a lot of cash
[03:35:09 EEST] Hero: and wants to flee with btc
[03:36:22 EEST] btc-e.support: nikname. link
[03:36:51 EEST] Hero: there is no bitcoin left man
[03:36:59 EEST] Hero: somebody is buying everything on btc-e
[03:37:17 EEST] Hero: nobody in their right mind would do that
[03:37:25 EEST] Hero: unles they didn't care about cash
[03:37:49 EEST] Hero: my nick is Hero2
[03:37:53 EEST] Hero: but my account is 0-0
[03:38:16 EEST] btc-e.support: scam?
[03:38:22 EEST] Hero: I don't know
[03:38:25 EEST] Hero: but look into it
[03:38:33 EEST] Hero: you can see who's buying
[03:38:38 EEST] Hero: I can't
[03:38:52 EEST] Hero: people already made small fortunes
[03:39:37 EEST] btc-e.support: well I see, thank you for the information
[03:42:07 EEST] btc-e.support: гoвopитe пo pyccки?
[03:42:31 EEST] Hero: I understand English
[03:42:40 EEST] btc-e.support: oк
[03:55:29 EEST] Hero: at least halt withdrawals
[03:55:33 EEST] Hero: till this is sorted out
[03:55:42 EEST] Hero: more than likely, the USD used to buy are not real
[03:55:50 EEST] Hero: fake account, or stolen USD
[03:57:33 EEST] btc-e.support: resort to the assistance of the police?
[03:57:57 EEST] Hero: man, just stop things now
[03:58:06 EEST] Hero: until u see what happened
[03:58:15 EEST] Hero: then you can go to police
[03:59:03 EEST] btc-e.support: okey
[03:59:16 EEST] Hero: if possible plug out the database
[03:59:30 EEST] Hero: and secure btc wallets
[03:59:47 EEST] Hero: in case u got hacked
[04:00:38 EEST] btc-e.support: [4:44:28] Hero3: Awesome! Listen, I just made a 140.06 Bitcoin deposit... 1 confirmation already...

Can you "release it" for me now?! Is that possible?! Please!  

I want to sell!  $_$



<<<
[04:01:17 EEST] Hero: exactly,
[04:01:25 EEST] Hero: somebody is buying all
[04:01:47 EEST] Hero: and people are selling
[04:01:52 EEST] Hero: they want the money
[04:01:56 EEST] Hero: it's crazy
[04:02:01 EEST] Hero: gold rush
[04:02:31 EEST] Hero: but somebody has already lost a lot of USD
[04:02:35 EEST] Hero: I don't know if you
[04:02:44 EEST] Hero: or clients
[04:02:46 EEST] Hero: or who
[04:03:27 EEST] btc-e.support: rather, I
[04:03:31 EEST] Hero: stop it man
[04:03:37 EEST] Hero: trading is still on
[04:03:40 EEST] Hero: wtf are you doing
[04:04:16 EEST] btc-e.support: you need to time. this is the same system
[04:06:26 EEST] * btc-e.support left the chat (Only people who have accepted contact request can be added).

The guy/girl didn't seem to understand much of what was going on.

Hi!

That is me:

"Awesome! Listen, I just made a 140.06 Bitcoin deposit... 1 confirmation already...
Can you "release it" for me now?! Is that possible?! Please!  
I want to sell!  $_$"

What a fool!!! (FACEPALM)

Anyway, when I tried to just withdraw it (#1296027), it remains frozen at BTC-e.com...

LOL


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: btc-e.com on July 31, 2012, 04:54:06 AM
This is a hack.!


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Tittiez on July 31, 2012, 04:54:23 AM
An admin just logged on to BTC-E, he has yet to say anything

Hes talking on the russian side, no idea what hes saying...

He said this: Hacking is now definitely going razbiratsya who and how.

Idk Google auto translates it all for me.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: pekv2 on July 31, 2012, 04:55:45 AM
This is a hack.!

Now what?


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Mushroomized on July 31, 2012, 04:55:58 AM
This is a hack.!
Oh really?


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: stochastic on July 31, 2012, 04:56:05 AM
Hmmm, with all these failed sites, maybe I should insure my coins with CPA.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: notme on July 31, 2012, 04:56:22 AM
The guy/girl didn't seem to understand much of what was going on.

Or they don't understand english.  The russian text they sent was them asking you to speak russian.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: kiwiasian on July 31, 2012, 04:56:44 AM
This is a hack.!

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/--f7EgxISjts/T8CaFIpCefI/AAAAAAAAAQs/lbu49JkXBmA/s1600/you-dont-say-meme-rage-face-nicolas-cage_189211535.png


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: ThiagoCMC on July 31, 2012, 04:57:09 AM
This is a hack.!

Okay... Please, just process my 140.0597 BTC withdraw ASAP: number #1296027


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: pekv2 on July 31, 2012, 04:57:52 AM
This is a hack.!

Can u confirm your support account is not cracked into as well?


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: kano on July 31, 2012, 04:59:54 AM
This is a hack.!
3 hours after it started ... sigh


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: jwzguy on July 31, 2012, 05:01:10 AM
This is a hack.!
3 hours after it started ... sigh
About 4.5 hours after the trading started. Someone needs a hotline.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: kano on July 31, 2012, 05:04:51 AM
This is a hack.!
3 hours after it started ... sigh
About 4.5 hours after the trading started. Someone needs a hotline.
Oh - yes - 4, not 3 ...
though I didn't see the first half hour - someone mentioned it to me 4 hours ago - then I started watching ...


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: silverbox on July 31, 2012, 05:06:11 AM
They halted trading!!  :o


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Transisto on July 31, 2012, 05:06:33 AM
Quote
Withdrawal BTC is temporary off.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: DonChate on July 31, 2012, 05:06:48 AM
At least that gave us 3-4 hours to withdraw (non-usd of course)


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: niko on July 31, 2012, 05:07:07 AM
Hey, lessons learned...

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQQdSwFgSec


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: finkleshnorts on July 31, 2012, 05:09:35 AM
Quote
Withdrawal BTC is temporary off.

those assholes. not cool


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: johnjay3000 on July 31, 2012, 05:09:48 AM
Sooo... I transfered btc from mt.gox over to btc-e before i saw the price issue/hack. My coins still have not appeared after 6 confs, what are the chances Ill see those coins again?


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: repentance on July 31, 2012, 05:11:28 AM
Seriously, how hard would it be to write some code which starts ringing your phone/activates an alarm in your home or whatever when this kind of unusual activity takes place?  It's ridiculous how often these things don't get stopped at the outset because there's no system in place for the owner to be contacted and notified immediately.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: JoelKatz on July 31, 2012, 05:12:37 AM
Sooo... I transfered btc from mt.gox over to btc-e before i saw the price issue/hack. My coins still have not appeared after 6 confs, what are the chances Ill see those coins again?
That will depend on the scope of their losses, whether they're able and willing to make them up, and if not, how they apportion them.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: kano on July 31, 2012, 05:13:26 AM
They halted trading!!  :o
No they said to halt trading - if you watch the BTC page it's still trading.

Last one just now was:
31.07.12 09:12   Sell    36.12 USD    3.70001 BTC    133.6443612 USD

Seriously? They can't even stop it from trading?

Edit1: ... and another:

31.07.12 09:13   Sell   36.12 USD   2.9935 BTC   108.12522 USD

Edit2: ... and another:

31.07.12 09:14   Sell   36.12 USD   0.998 BTC   36.04776 USD

Edit3: ... possibly the last one?

31.07.12 09:16   Sell    35 USD    0.781111 BTC    27.338885 USD


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: johnjay3000 on July 31, 2012, 05:14:05 AM
Sooo... I transfered btc from mt.gox over to btc-e before i saw the price issue/hack. My coins still have not appeared after 6 confs, what are the chances Ill see those coins again?
That will depend on the scope of their losses, whether they're able and willing to make them up, and if not, how they apportion them.

Hmm I think Ill stick to gox after this...


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Bjork on July 31, 2012, 05:15:00 AM
Sooo... I transfered btc from mt.gox over to btc-e before i saw the price issue/hack. My coins still have not appeared after 6 confs, what are the chances Ill see those coins again?
That will depend on the scope of their losses, whether they're able and willing to make them up, and if not, how they apportion them.

Hmm I think Ill stick to gox after this...

Yeah because nothing bad has ever happened there  ;D


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: kiwiasian on July 31, 2012, 05:17:17 AM
Seriously, how hard would it be to write some code which starts ringing your phone/activates an alarm in your home or whatever when this kind of unusual activity takes place?  It's ridiculous how often these things don't get stopped at the outset because there's no system in place for the owner to be contacted and notified immediately.

It would not be very hard. But what about cost of implementation? Who in the right mind would pay to implement that type of system for the thousands of users of BTC-E?


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: repentance on July 31, 2012, 05:20:43 AM

It would not be very hard. But what about cost of implementation? Who in the right mind would pay to implement that type of system for the thousands of users of BTC-E?



Sorry, I meant only for the alarm to notify the site owner so that they can suspend trading, back up the database, take the site offline or whatever.  More than once, bad stuff has happened while owners are asleep and no-one's been able to contact them to let them know strange shit is happening.  In the physical business world, there's usually a system in place for businesses to be contacted if they're broken into out of hours.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: mobile4ever on July 31, 2012, 05:22:07 AM
It would not be very hard. But what about cost of implementation? Who in the right mind would pay to implement that type of system for the thousands of users of BTC-E?


I think this guy had the right idea :

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=96840.msg1067100#msg1067100


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Yankee (BitInstant) on July 31, 2012, 05:24:20 AM

It would not be very hard. But what about cost of implementation? Who in the right mind would pay to implement that type of system for the thousands of users of BTC-E?



Sorry, I meant only for the alarm to notify the site owner so that they can suspend trading, back up the database, take the site offline or whatever.  More than once, bad stuff has happened while owners are asleep and no-one's been able to contact them to let them know strange shit is happening.  In the physical business world, there's usually a system in place for businesses to be contacted if they're broken into out of hours.

I agree. Every exchange and Bitcoin holder should implement and build something to this sort.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: ThiagoCMC on July 31, 2012, 05:24:33 AM
It would not be very hard. But what about cost of implementation? Who in the right mind would pay to implement that type of system for the thousands of users of BTC-E?


I think this guy had the right idea :

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=96840.msg1067100#msg1067100

My exchange in development already have a different wallet for each user.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: ThiagoCMC on July 31, 2012, 05:25:23 AM

It would not be very hard. But what about cost of implementation? Who in the right mind would pay to implement that type of system for the thousands of users of BTC-E?



Sorry, I meant only for the alarm to notify the site owner so that they can suspend trading, back up the database, take the site offline or whatever.  More than once, bad stuff has happened while owners are asleep and no-one's been able to contact them to let them know strange shit is happening.  In the physical business world, there's usually a system in place for businesses to be contacted if they're broken into out of hours.

I agree. Every exchange and Bitcoin holder should implement and build something to this sort.


This isn't difficulty to implement.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: JoelKatz on July 31, 2012, 05:25:53 AM
My exchange in development already have a different wallet for each user.
So you don't plan to do hot/cold wallets? Or you are going to have two wallets for each user?


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Transisto on July 31, 2012, 05:26:54 AM
Code:
07-31 00:21:38 buy 40 1989.9 79596
07-31 00:21:37 buy 40 1984.41 79376.4
07-31 00:21:36 buy 40 1986.34 79453.6
07-31 00:21:35 buy 40 1987.18 79487.2
07-31 00:21:34 buy 40 1984.41 79376.4
07-31 00:21:32 buy 40 1983.99 79359.6
07-31 00:21:32 buy 40 2.1984 87.936
07-31 00:21:31 buy 40 1.8016 72.064
07-31 00:21:31 buy 30 1984.39 59531.7
07-31 00:21:30 buy 30 1985.94 59578.2
07-31 00:21:29 buy 30 1986.93 59607.9
07-31 00:21:28 buy 30 1984.94 59548.2
07-31 00:21:28 buy 30 1987.19 59615.7
07-31 00:21:27 buy 30 1985.94 59578.2
07-31 00:21:26 buy 30 1984.48 59534.4
07-31 00:21:25 buy 30 1986.19 59585.7
07-31 00:21:24 buy 30 1983.96 59518.8
07-31 00:21:22 buy 30 1988.04 59641.2
07-31 00:21:20 buy 30 1976 59280
07-31 00:21:19 buy 30 951.006 28530.18
07-31 00:21:19 buy 25 1035.92 25898
07-31 00:21:18 buy 25 1984.95 49623.75
07-31 00:21:17 buy 25 1985.54 49638.5
07-31 00:21:16 buy 25 1986.69 49667.25
07-31 00:21:16 buy 25 1982.48 49562
07-31 00:21:15 buy 25 5 125
07-31 00:21:15 buy 25 1567.42 39185.5
07-31 00:21:15 buy 20 416.641 8332.82
07-31 00:21:14 buy 20 5 100
07-31 00:21:14 buy 20 1993.15 39863
07-31 00:21:14 buy 20 15 300
07-31 00:21:13 buy 20 1993.13 39862.6
07-31 00:21:13 buy 20 976.088 19521.76
07-31 00:21:13 buy 20 1960.2 39204
07-31 00:21:13 buy 20 392.342 7846.84

that's more than 1.6 million $ of most likely fake USD to purchase and withdraw BTCs at prices arround 40btc


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: ThiagoCMC on July 31, 2012, 05:29:25 AM
My exchange in development already have a different wallet for each user.
So you don't plan to do hot/cold wallets? Or you are going to have two wallets for each user?

What I can tell you is that it'll have many security layers.
And the entire project will be open sourced, FOR THE WIN!!


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Slushpuppy on July 31, 2012, 05:59:14 AM
This stuff has to happen if we are ever to learn. Bitcoins will always be solid, but exchanges have  aways to go.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on July 31, 2012, 06:00:27 AM
Code:
07-31 00:21:38 buy 40 1989.9 79596
07-31 00:21:37 buy 40 1984.41 79376.4
07-31 00:21:36 buy 40 1986.34 79453.6
07-31 00:21:35 buy 40 1987.18 79487.2
07-31 00:21:34 buy 40 1984.41 79376.4
07-31 00:21:32 buy 40 1983.99 79359.6
07-31 00:21:32 buy 40 2.1984 87.936
07-31 00:21:31 buy 40 1.8016 72.064
07-31 00:21:31 buy 30 1984.39 59531.7
07-31 00:21:30 buy 30 1985.94 59578.2
07-31 00:21:29 buy 30 1986.93 59607.9
07-31 00:21:28 buy 30 1984.94 59548.2
07-31 00:21:28 buy 30 1987.19 59615.7
07-31 00:21:27 buy 30 1985.94 59578.2
07-31 00:21:26 buy 30 1984.48 59534.4
07-31 00:21:25 buy 30 1986.19 59585.7
07-31 00:21:24 buy 30 1983.96 59518.8
07-31 00:21:22 buy 30 1988.04 59641.2
07-31 00:21:20 buy 30 1976 59280
07-31 00:21:19 buy 30 951.006 28530.18
07-31 00:21:19 buy 25 1035.92 25898
07-31 00:21:18 buy 25 1984.95 49623.75
07-31 00:21:17 buy 25 1985.54 49638.5
07-31 00:21:16 buy 25 1986.69 49667.25
07-31 00:21:16 buy 25 1982.48 49562
07-31 00:21:15 buy 25 5 125
07-31 00:21:15 buy 25 1567.42 39185.5
07-31 00:21:15 buy 20 416.641 8332.82
07-31 00:21:14 buy 20 5 100
07-31 00:21:14 buy 20 1993.15 39863
07-31 00:21:14 buy 20 15 300
07-31 00:21:13 buy 20 1993.13 39862.6
07-31 00:21:13 buy 20 976.088 19521.76
07-31 00:21:13 buy 20 1960.2 39204
07-31 00:21:13 buy 20 392.342 7846.84

that's more than 1.6 million $ of most likely fake USD to purchase and withdraw BTCs at prices arround 40btc

Any chance the money came from sold LTC that were forked due to successful 51% attack?


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: dust on July 31, 2012, 06:04:46 AM
Any chance the money came from sold LTC that were forked due to successful 51% attack?
No.  The exchange owner confirmed it was a hack, and we can assume the hacker created large amounts of fake usd.  The amount of usd involved was an order of magnitude higher than LTC's market cap.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: JoelKatz on July 31, 2012, 06:04:57 AM
Any chance the money came from sold LTC that were forked due to successful 51% attack?
No.
http://marketscry.info/?s=ltcusd&t=5000


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: repentance on July 31, 2012, 06:09:40 AM
This stuff has to happen if we are ever to learn. Bitcoins will always be solid, but exchanges have  aways to go.

Pretty slow learners then.  It's not like any of the hack/cracks to date have been sophisticated or involved zero day exploits.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Matthew N. Wright on July 31, 2012, 06:12:04 AM
This stuff has to happen if we are ever to learn. Bitcoins will always be solid, but exchanges have  aways to go.

Pretty slow learners then.  It's not like any of the hack/cracks to date have been sophisticated or involved zero day exploits.

Amen to that.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: jojo69 on July 31, 2012, 06:16:34 AM
bitcoin

better than television any day of the week


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: DareC on July 31, 2012, 06:42:25 AM
So, how low do you all think BTC will go with tomorrow's inevitable post-hack panic sales? I'm calling $4.50.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: notme on July 31, 2012, 06:43:35 AM
So, how low do you all think BTC will go with tomorrow's inevitable post-hack panic sales? I'm calling $4.50.

It's ramped to $9.3 so far tonight, so I'm calling $9.8 by the end of the week.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: DareC on July 31, 2012, 06:47:16 AM
Just wait until BTC-E reverses transactions and/or refuses USD withdrawals.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: notme on July 31, 2012, 06:47:48 AM
Just wait until BTC-E reverses transactions and/or refuses USD withdrawals.

No thanks... this train has left the station.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: alexanderanon on July 31, 2012, 06:48:16 AM
bitcoin

better than television any day of the week

When this shit happens the particular thread/forum feels like
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_HemMnHs7SCg/S-xKfLROpgI/AAAAAAAAAiI/JaAPHrWVVJM/s1600/crazy+trading+at+stock+exchange.jpg

when it's more like
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01080/connected-graphics_1080916a.jpg


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: ThiagoCMC on July 31, 2012, 06:56:47 AM
LOL


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: JeffK on July 31, 2012, 06:58:03 AM
Posting here to remind you that you trusted your USD and BTC with someone who has less posts and has not been around as long as my dumb gimmick account


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: mc_lovin on July 31, 2012, 06:58:50 AM
I took a bunch of screenshots of the chat window during the madness if anyone is interested:

http://www.bitcointrading.com/forum/index.php?topic=938.0

and after that point I just recorded a video of the chat window with Freez Screen.  Let me know there is enough interest to upload.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: JeffK on July 31, 2012, 07:04:03 AM
I've decided that my investment strategy for life will be thrusting fistfuls of cash into the hands of the next person I meet with access to a MySQL database and a copy of PHP for Dummies. What could go wrong?


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: kano on July 31, 2012, 07:04:38 AM
...
Any chance the money came from sold LTC that were forked due to successful 51% attack?
What LTC 51% attack?


Title: UPDATE:
Post by: pekv2 on July 31, 2012, 07:05:01 AM
dev: we got some fake LR deposits so they just bought btc and withdraw

dev: karl1982, exchange not hacked, we just receive fake LR USD


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Coin.Karma on July 31, 2012, 07:05:14 AM
 ok guys the exchange was not hacked, only that someone got in fake LR and actually used that fool around with the market. not a big loss,

claims developer at btc-e chat


Title: UPDATE:
Post by: pekv2 on July 31, 2012, 07:07:41 AM
dev: we do rollback right now


Title: Re: UPDATE:
Post by: the joint on July 31, 2012, 07:08:10 AM
dev: we got some fake LR deposits so they just bought btc and withdraw

dev: karl1982, exchange not hacked, we just receive fake LR USD

Did they shut down deposits?  Some are claiming that they sent BTC to the exchange during the hack and that they have not confirmed, i.e. the deposits are in limbo or the hackers fucked with the deposit addresses.


Title: Re: UPDATE:
Post by: pekv2 on July 31, 2012, 07:11:07 AM
dev: we got some fake LR deposits so they just bought btc and withdraw

dev: karl1982, exchange not hacked, we just receive fake LR USD

Did they shut down deposits?  Some are claiming that they sent BTC to the exchange during the hack and that they have not confirmed, i.e. the deposits are in limbo or the hackers fucked with the deposit addresses.

I have no idea. I think everything is at a standstill atm.

I would recommend not to try and deposit anything atm.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: kano on July 31, 2012, 07:13:12 AM
... and using Joel's link but btc instead:

http://marketscry.info/?s=btcusd&t=1200

Starting at: 07-31 00:21:10

You can clearly see it all start.


Title: UPDATE:
Post by: pekv2 on July 31, 2012, 07:17:08 AM
dev: we got some fake LR deposits so they just bought btc and withdraw

dev: karl1982, exchange not hacked, we just receive fake LR USD

dev: we do rollback right now

Quote
dev: ian85, i think it was secret brute


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: TiagoTiago on July 31, 2012, 07:19:02 AM
I took a bunch of screenshots of the chat window during the madness if anyone is interested:

http://www.bitcointrading.com/forum/index.php?topic=938.0

and after that point I just recorded a video of the chat window with Freez Screen.  Let me know there is enough interest to upload.
There isn't a publicly avaiable timestamped log of their chatroom?


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: pekv2 on July 31, 2012, 07:25:30 AM
I took a bunch of screenshots of the chat window during the madness if anyone is interested:

http://www.bitcointrading.com/forum/index.php?topic=938.0

and after that point I just recorded a video of the chat window with Freez Screen.  Let me know there is enough interest to upload.
There isn't a publicly avaiable timestamped log of their chatroom?

Nope :/. Be nice if there was though.

I think, not sure, but the admins and mods get timestamps.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: tiberiandusk on July 31, 2012, 07:28:19 AM
BTC-e hacker:
http://i.imgur.com/blP3d.gif

Me:
http://i.imgur.com/PKGSb.gif


Title: Re: UPDATE:
Post by: JoelKatz on July 31, 2012, 07:39:56 AM
dev: we got some fake LR deposits so they just bought btc and withdraw

dev: karl1982, exchange not hacked, we just receive fake LR USD
I'm kind of having a hard time seeing what the difference is. If you can get fake USD into an exchange, you've hacked it.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: pekv2 on July 31, 2012, 07:42:30 AM
Hope, further details will be explained.


Title: Re: UPDATE:
Post by: Energizer on July 31, 2012, 07:45:24 AM
dev: we got some fake LR deposits so they just bought btc and withdraw

dev: karl1982, exchange not hacked, we just receive fake LR USD
I'm kind of having a hard time seeing what the difference is. If you can get fake USD into an exchange, you've hacked it.


INDEED!


Title: Re: UPDATE:
Post by: smoothie on July 31, 2012, 07:46:29 AM
dev: we got some fake LR deposits so they just bought btc and withdraw

dev: karl1982, exchange not hacked, we just receive fake LR USD

dev: we do rollback right now

Quote
dev: ian85, i think it was secret brute

How do you rollback BTC withdrawals?

That's pretty dumb logic in my opinion.


Title: Re: UPDATE:
Post by: Energizer on July 31, 2012, 07:47:04 AM
dev: we got some fake LR deposits so they just bought btc and withdraw

dev: karl1982, exchange not hacked, we just receive fake LR USD
I'm kind of having a hard time seeing what the difference is. If you can get fake USD into an exchange, you've hacked it.


Maybe he means that the hack was LR side?


Title: Re: UPDATE:
Post by: adamstgBit on July 31, 2012, 08:02:19 AM
dev: we got some fake LR deposits so they just bought btc and withdraw

dev: karl1982, exchange not hacked, we just receive fake LR USD
I'm kind of having a hard time seeing what the difference is. If you can get fake USD into an exchange, you've hacked it.


Maybe he means that the hack was LR side?

LR can be hacked into sending fake LR USD!
Quickly everyone the USD has been hacked
Move your money to Bitcoin now, before your USD is worthless.



Title: Re: UPDATE:
Post by: kano on July 31, 2012, 08:17:44 AM
dev: we got some fake LR deposits so they just bought btc and withdraw

dev: karl1982, exchange not hacked, we just receive fake LR USD
I'm kind of having a hard time seeing what the difference is. If you can get fake USD into an exchange, you've hacked it.


Maybe he means that the hack was LR side?
That would be good - that would mean that LR is up to cover the money and all the BTC-e transactions should all be unchanged ...


Title: Re: UPDATE:
Post by: smoothie on July 31, 2012, 08:20:54 AM
dev: we got some fake LR deposits so they just bought btc and withdraw

dev: karl1982, exchange not hacked, we just receive fake LR USD
I'm kind of having a hard time seeing what the difference is. If you can get fake USD into an exchange, you've hacked it.


Maybe he means that the hack was LR side?
That would be good - that would mean that LR is up to cover the money and all the BTC-e transactions should all be unchanged ...
+1 Did not think of that...


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: BkkCoins on July 31, 2012, 08:48:43 AM
What is far more likely is that there is a payment notification interface that was replay attacked due to poor design. I'm not up on how LR notifies of received funds but it may be like Paypal and I know how that one works.

BTC-E receives a http POST saying funds arrived into account. It updates it's exchange accounts locally to reflect that. But if the POST isn't properly qualified/authenticated then someone who knows the protocol can mimic funds deposit and make it appear like they have sent funds. It is critical that a POST back to origin to verify funds happens and perhaps that didn't happen or was MITM somehow.

The result is no funds on account at LR. And free to spend money at BTC-E.

They can reverse all the trades and restore balance to pre-hack time. But they will not be able to give back BTC that have been withdrawn. So either they make good and buy it in the market, or they say tough luck and customers lose. I expect they'll reverse everything and then see how much BTC they would need to buy. And at that point they'll decide who loses.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Gabi on July 31, 2012, 08:48:58 AM
Quote
dev: we do rollback right now
Nice

That's why you make backup, so in case of problems you do a rollback and problem solved. Not like the scammers of bitcoinica that "we have no backups lol"


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Transisto on July 31, 2012, 09:00:21 AM
...

They can reverse all the trades and restore balance to pre-hack time. But they will not be able to give back BTC that have been withdrawn. So either they make good and buy it in the market, or they say tough luck and customers lose. I expect they'll reverse everything and then see how much BTC they would need to buy. And at that point they'll decide who loses.

What was BTC withdraw limit ?


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: ailikun on July 31, 2012, 09:15:27 AM
No limit(


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: smoothie on July 31, 2012, 09:18:17 AM
No limit(

Not true. there is a 2000BTC limit. Asshole doesnt know what the fuck he is talking about.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: JoelKatz on July 31, 2012, 09:22:25 AM
That's why you make backup, so in case of problems you do a rollback and problem solved. Not like the scammers of bitcoinica that "we have no backups lol"
Unfortunately, it's not problem solved for at least two reasons. First, you can't rollback coin withdrawals. (They may have a similar problem with LR withdrawals, but I doubt it.) Second, you will have customers who will, in many cases justifiably, feel that rolling back legitimate trades rips them off. (You'll also have a bunch of jerks demanding to keep their ill-gotten gains, such as people who deposited BTC, sold them for $50 each, and then tried to withdraw USD. But screw them.)

For example, consider someone who saw the price rise at BTC-e and then bought a Mt. Gox code and then bought bitcoins at Mt. Gox, withdrew them from Gox and deposited them at BTC-e. A rollback would give them their bitcoins back. That still leaves them out the commission they paid for the Gox code plus  two Mt. Gox commissions (buying the bitcoins and then having to sell them). They also may take exchange losses depending on the timing and are left having to withdraw USD from Mt. Gox.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: ailikun on July 31, 2012, 09:25:06 AM
No limit(

Not true. there is a 2000BTC limit. Asshole doesnt know what the fuck he is talking about.

well, theres no meneaning in being rude.

"Our advantages:

 •Trading in automatic mode.
•Addition USD deposits within 24 hour
•Instant deposit/withdrawal all coin
•USD Withdrawal within 24 hours

i havent tried withdrowing more than 2000 btc.
so if im wrong, than its good.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: smoothie on July 31, 2012, 09:32:47 AM
No limit(

Not true. there is a 2000BTC limit. Asshole doesnt know what the fuck he is talking about.

well, theres no meneaning in being rude.

"Our advantages:

 •Trading in automatic mode.
•Addition USD deposits within 24 hour
•Instant deposit/withdrawal all coin
•USD Withdrawal within 24 hours

i havent tried withdrowing more than 2000 btc.
so if im wrong, than its good.

There is plenty of reason to be rude to you. You claimed something you did not even know anything about.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: ailikun on July 31, 2012, 09:40:37 AM
I didn't claimed it.
And I didn't argue with anybody
I believed that, there is no limit.

Edit: Yes theres is a limit, its 2000btc.
sorry for misleading


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Maged on July 31, 2012, 10:39:50 AM
That's why you make backup, so in case of problems you do a rollback and problem solved. Not like the scammers of bitcoinica that "we have no backups lol"
Unfortunately, it's not problem solved for at least two reasons. First, you can't rollback coin withdrawals. (They may have a similar problem with LR withdrawals, but I doubt it.) Second, you will have customers who will, in many cases justifiably, feel that rolling back legitimate trades rips them off. (You'll also have a bunch of jerks demanding to keep their ill-gotten gains, such as people who deposited BTC, sold them for $50 each, and then tried to withdraw USD. But screw them.)

For example, consider someone who saw the price rise at BTC-e and then bought a Mt. Gox code and then bought bitcoins at Mt. Gox, withdrew them from Gox and deposited them at BTC-e. A rollback would give them their bitcoins back. That still leaves them out the commission they paid for the Gox code plus  two Mt. Gox commissions (buying the bitcoins and then having to sell them). They also may take exchange losses depending on the timing and are left having to withdraw USD from Mt. Gox.
After the price rose above $12, it was extremely obvious that this was a hack. Anyone who traded elsewhere with the assumption that the btc-e trade was legit deserves to have the trade rolled-back.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: tiberiandusk on July 31, 2012, 10:44:02 AM
That's why you make backup, so in case of problems you do a rollback and problem solved. Not like the scammers of bitcoinica that "we have no backups lol"
Unfortunately, it's not problem solved for at least two reasons. First, you can't rollback coin withdrawals. (They may have a similar problem with LR withdrawals, but I doubt it.) Second, you will have customers who will, in many cases justifiably, feel that rolling back legitimate trades rips them off. (You'll also have a bunch of jerks demanding to keep their ill-gotten gains, such as people who deposited BTC, sold them for $50 each, and then tried to withdraw USD. But screw them.)

For example, consider someone who saw the price rise at BTC-e and then bought a Mt. Gox code and then bought bitcoins at Mt. Gox, withdrew them from Gox and deposited them at BTC-e. A rollback would give them their bitcoins back. That still leaves them out the commission they paid for the Gox code plus  two Mt. Gox commissions (buying the bitcoins and then having to sell them). They also may take exchange losses depending on the timing and are left having to withdraw USD from Mt. Gox.
After the price rose above $12, it was extremely obvious that this was a hack. Anyone who traded elsewhere with the assumption that the btc-e trade was legit deserves to have the trade rolled-back.

I think you meant to say, "Anyone who traded elsewhere with the assumption that the btc-e trade was legit was a freaking idiot."


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: JoelKatz on July 31, 2012, 10:47:20 AM
After the price rose above $12, it was extremely obvious that this was a hack. Anyone who traded elsewhere with the assumption that the btc-e trade was legit deserves to have the trade rolled-back.
I agree, but it's very hard for a business to say to its customers, "you were stupid to trust us, so you deserve to lose". I'm sure they can find lots of places btc-e talks about how secure and reliable they are and how customers can and should trust them. It's hard to turn around and blame people for doing what you've asked them to do.

Also, watching it happen, it wasn't obvious to me that it was an exchange hack until much later. In fact, until very late I considered it still a possibility that someone was using a large amount of real LR.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Maged on July 31, 2012, 10:56:21 AM
Also, watching it happen, it wasn't obvious to me that it was an exchange hack until much later. In fact, until very late I considered it still a possibility that someone was using a large amount of real LR.
Seriously? I understand believing it up to about $12 (a 33% increase over MtGox), but after that not even an insane buyer would keep buying with their own funds. They'd let the price settle.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: R- on July 31, 2012, 10:59:35 AM
Equilibrium restored
http://i.imgur.com/3awQU.png


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on July 31, 2012, 11:15:38 AM
Equilibrium restored
http://i.imgur.com/3awQU.png

Not yet. They can draw USD and BTC balances as they were before the hack, but what will happen if everyone try to withdraw all their money? Does BTC-e have enough funds to cover every claim?


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Maged on July 31, 2012, 11:19:06 AM
Equilibrium restored

Not yet. They can draw USD and BTC balances as they were before the hack, but what will happen if everyone try to withdraw all their money? Does BTC-e have enough funds to cover every claim?
If we've learned anything from past hacks, it's that that won't happen.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: cryptoanarchist on July 31, 2012, 11:57:57 AM
Whew...well, my BTC withdrawal went through, so I got my coins out of there. I was late to the party so I still have USD and LTC stuck there though.

 :-\


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: 01BTC10 on July 31, 2012, 11:58:06 AM
Ouff!

I was one of the first trading BTC at 39$ each. At first I thought a trading bot went wrong. My $ withdrawal never went trough. Then when I saw every BTC getting drained I knew something was definitely very wrong. Went to bed and now everything seem to have been rolled back.   :D

Stressful event... I really thought a significant part of my BTC was wubbed! That's why I spread all my funds between different exchange and a cold storage wallet.  :o


EDIT: I wish my balance is real BTC

Quote
Withdrawal BTC is temporary off.

This might not end well.

EDIT2:

Quote
Dear users of the Exchange Btc-e.com

The exchange is not going to close. We will refund all losses from our reserves.

Neither the servers nor the database were compromised. There were no SQL injections.

At 04:07 MSK (GMT+4) our LR API Secret Key was compromised. It's 16 uppercase, lowercase letters and digits. They may have bruteforced it for long.

Using the key the hacker imitated LR deposits from many accounts and bought up Bitcoins, Namecoins and Litecoins.

We lost our daily volume, approx. 4500 BTC. The attacker couldn't withdraw more
as most BTC were distributed over several offline wallets.

At 10:30 we restored the database to the state it was at 04:00, right before the attack. All trades after 4:00 are reverted.

People who attempted withdrawals before 04:00 MSK will get their funds withdrawn later today.

For people who deposited BTC, LTC and NMC after 04:00 MSK the funds will be put to their balances before market opens.
We are working on the scripts for this.

If you deposited USD after 04:00 MSK you should send us your login, amount and payment system used by email or PM.

Our plan:

1. The trade will be disabled until we restore the balances to the point before market crash.

2. After that, the trade and deposit/withdrawal will be back on, approx. within 1-2 days.

Icq - 610112128
Skype - btc-e.support
E-mail - support@btc-e.com


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: bitcoinism on July 31, 2012, 12:50:17 PM
Quote
Neither the servers nor the database were compromised. There were no SQL injections.

At 04:07 MSK (GMT+4) our LR API Secret Key was compromised. It's 16 uppercase, lowercase letters and digits. They may have bruteforced it for long.

Using the key the hacker imitated LR deposits from many accounts and bought up Bitcoins, Namecoins and Litecoins.

I wonder how the attack worked... You think there's a way to brute force the API key offline? Did btce or LR allow millions of attempts at guessing it? Probably got hacked some other way.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on July 31, 2012, 12:57:06 PM
Quote
Neither the servers nor the database were compromised. There were no SQL injections.

At 04:07 MSK (GMT+4) our LR API Secret Key was compromised. It's 16 uppercase, lowercase letters and digits. They may have bruteforced it for long.

Using the key the hacker imitated LR deposits from many accounts and bought up Bitcoins, Namecoins and Litecoins.

I wonder how the attack worked... You think there's a way to brute force the API key offline? Did btce or LR allow millions of attempts at guessing it? Probably got hacked some other way.

Seems to me the secret key leaked. I bet that was a fault of LR.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: AndrewBUD on July 31, 2012, 01:00:11 PM
That's why you make backup, so in case of problems you do a rollback and problem solved. Not like the scammers of bitcoinica that "we have no backups lol"
Unfortunately, it's not problem solved for at least two reasons. First, you can't rollback coin withdrawals. (They may have a similar problem with LR withdrawals, but I doubt it.) Second, you will have customers who will, in many cases justifiably, feel that rolling back legitimate trades rips them off. (You'll also have a bunch of jerks demanding to keep their ill-gotten gains, such as people who deposited BTC, sold them for $50 each, and then tried to withdraw USD. But screw them.)

For example, consider someone who saw the price rise at BTC-e and then bought a Mt. Gox code and then bought bitcoins at Mt. Gox, withdrew them from Gox and deposited them at BTC-e. A rollback would give them their bitcoins back. That still leaves them out the commission they paid for the Gox code plus  two Mt. Gox commissions (buying the bitcoins and then having to sell them). They also may take exchange losses depending on the timing and are left having to withdraw USD from Mt. Gox.
After the price rose above $12, it was extremely obvious that this was a hack. Anyone who traded elsewhere with the assumption that the btc-e trade was legit deserves to have the trade rolled-back.


I agree..... Some people are just greedy...


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Gabi on July 31, 2012, 01:11:06 PM
I agree too.

Btw, they had backups, they reverted the trades and they will pay everything, to me it seems BTC-E is facing the problem in the best way. Not like the idiots/scammers of bitcoinica


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: cryptoanarchist on July 31, 2012, 01:11:48 PM
That's why you make backup, so in case of problems you do a rollback and problem solved. Not like the scammers of bitcoinica that "we have no backups lol"
Unfortunately, it's not problem solved for at least two reasons. First, you can't rollback coin withdrawals. (They may have a similar problem with LR withdrawals, but I doubt it.) Second, you will have customers who will, in many cases justifiably, feel that rolling back legitimate trades rips them off. (You'll also have a bunch of jerks demanding to keep their ill-gotten gains, such as people who deposited BTC, sold them for $50 each, and then tried to withdraw USD. But screw them.)

For example, consider someone who saw the price rise at BTC-e and then bought a Mt. Gox code and then bought bitcoins at Mt. Gox, withdrew them from Gox and deposited them at BTC-e. A rollback would give them their bitcoins back. That still leaves them out the commission they paid for the Gox code plus  two Mt. Gox commissions (buying the bitcoins and then having to sell them). They also may take exchange losses depending on the timing and are left having to withdraw USD from Mt. Gox.
After the price rose above $12, it was extremely obvious that this was a hack. Anyone who traded elsewhere with the assumption that the btc-e trade was legit deserves to have the trade rolled-back.


I agree..... Some people are just greedy...

Oh please, it has nothing to do with being greedy (we all are). The trades got rolled back because they weren't real trades. If you sold for $50 of fake LR, you can't expect the exchange to pay you out in real LR.

Btw, they had backups, they reverted the trades and they will pay everything, to me it seems BTC-E is facing the problem in the best way. Not like the idiots/scammers of bitcoinica


BTCe has handled this the best that can be expected. They didn't make the amateur mistakes that Bicoinica SUPPOSEDLY made (inside job).

The eventual outcome of this will be heightened security for LR deposits - that's a good thing.



Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: EnergyVampire on July 31, 2012, 01:14:13 PM
Hmm... I'm still a bit confused.
All that noise and only 4500 BTC were stolen?!  :D
I'm guessing LTC and NMC withdrawals were capped as well?

http://blockchain.info/block-index/256991/000000000000076b892483f7c33fe7e44b577ec2f2a5f1bf9df71952a1184578


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: AndrewBUD on July 31, 2012, 01:17:19 PM
That's why you make backup, so in case of problems you do a rollback and problem solved. Not like the scammers of bitcoinica that "we have no backups lol"
Unfortunately, it's not problem solved for at least two reasons. First, you can't rollback coin withdrawals. (They may have a similar problem with LR withdrawals, but I doubt it.) Second, you will have customers who will, in many cases justifiably, feel that rolling back legitimate trades rips them off. (You'll also have a bunch of jerks demanding to keep their ill-gotten gains, such as people who deposited BTC, sold them for $50 each, and then tried to withdraw USD. But screw them.)

For example, consider someone who saw the price rise at BTC-e and then bought a Mt. Gox code and then bought bitcoins at Mt. Gox, withdrew them from Gox and deposited them at BTC-e. A rollback would give them their bitcoins back. That still leaves them out the commission they paid for the Gox code plus  two Mt. Gox commissions (buying the bitcoins and then having to sell them). They also may take exchange losses depending on the timing and are left having to withdraw USD from Mt. Gox.
After the price rose above $12, it was extremely obvious that this was a hack. Anyone who traded elsewhere with the assumption that the btc-e trade was legit deserves to have the trade rolled-back.


I agree..... Some people are just greedy...

Oh please, it has nothing to do with being greedy (we all are). The trades got rolled back because they weren't real trades. If you sold for $50 of fake LR, you can't expect the exchange to pay you out in real LR.

How do you figure it has nothing to do with being greedy? The second people saw a problem, they ran and tried to sell coins.. How is that not greedy?



Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: cryptoanarchist on July 31, 2012, 01:20:25 PM
Don't forget the worlds most powerful brute force cracking machine is being built, it's hard to know what is safe from some of the mining rigs out there now and there is custom hardware on the way...

Brute Force a 16 character password? I don't think so. Somehow the hacker found it.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: proudhon on July 31, 2012, 01:23:11 PM
My account there has been completely restored.  I guess that site isn't as crappy as everyone makes it out to be.  This is basically the opposite of the MtGox hack crash - i.e. a hack rally.  From what I understand the thief only got away with ~4k BTCs.  That's still a good chunk of change, but it sounds like the exchange is covering it from reserves.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: cryptoanarchist on July 31, 2012, 01:23:30 PM

How do you figure it has nothing to do with being greedy? The second people saw a problem, they ran and tried to sell coins.. How is that not greedy?


I disagreed with the statement that people deserved to have their trades rolled back because they should have known the price is wrong - they got rolled back because they weren't real trades.

I didn't say it wasn't "greedy". We all operate in our own self interest (greed). There's nothing wrong with wanting to make more money.

Now if by "greed" you mean being fraudulent, that's a different story.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: AndrewBUD on July 31, 2012, 01:27:33 PM
Yeah, I am probably thinking more on the terms of fraudulant...





Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: caveden on July 31, 2012, 01:40:17 PM
Brute Force a 16 character password? I don't think so. Somehow the hacker found it.

Yep. Unless it was not random enough, like the full name of someone in charge or something - but then I wouldn't call it "brute force" any more either.

The password probably leaked somehow. If I were behind BTC-e, I'm not sure I'd put the service back up before figuring out what happened. If somebody had access to the password once and you don't know how he did it, then what's to stop this person from have access to it again?


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: wndrbr3d on July 31, 2012, 01:55:28 PM
It looks like some hacker/scammer injected a huge amount of FAKE capital and bought the ACTUAL coins on the market.

I don't think a hack like this means they have access to the wallet, it just looks like they pumped a bunch of funny money USD into the market to make the transactions legit. I suspect the coins are giggity-gone at this point.

I love being right  :P


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: 01BTC10 on July 31, 2012, 01:58:55 PM
This event should remind everyone to change their password on BTC-E as a precaution. Or anywhere else the same password is used.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: proudhon on July 31, 2012, 01:59:02 PM
It looks like some hacker/scammer injected a huge amount of FAKE capital and bought the ACTUAL coins on the market.

I don't think a hack like this means they have access to the wallet, it just looks like they pumped a bunch of funny money USD into the market to make the transactions legit. I suspect the coins are giggity-gone at this point.

I love being right  :P

Yeah, basically this is the opposite of the MtGox hack where lots of fake BTC were sold (price goes down).  This time lots of fake USD were sold (price goes up).


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: runeks on July 31, 2012, 02:01:02 PM
Everybody, please, repeat after me:

"The bitcoins I have on an exchange are not my bitcoins. They are an obligation of the exchange to pay me back said number of bitcoins."

If the exchange gets hacked and loses its bitcoins, it cannot meet that obligation, and you will have no bitcoins to withdraw. Hence, they were not and are not your bitcoins, they belonged to the exchange and now, possibly, to the hacker.

It's like having money in a bank without deposit insurance. It's not actually your money, it's a bank's obligation to pay you back the money on demand. Will they be able to meet that obligation? Who knows.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: proudhon on July 31, 2012, 02:03:50 PM
Everybody, please, repeat after me:

"The bitcoins I have on an exchange are not my bitcoins. They are an obligation of the exchange to pay me back said number of bitcoins."

If the exchange gets hacked and loses its bitcoins, it cannot meet that obligation, and you will have no bitcoins to withdraw. Hence, they were not and are not your bitcoins, they belonged to the exchange.

It's like having money in a bank without deposit insurance. It's not actually your money, it's a bank's obligation to pay you back the money on demand. Will they be able to meet that obligation? Who knows.

+1


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: dree12 on July 31, 2012, 02:04:34 PM
Everybody, please, repeat after me:

"The bitcoins I have on an exchange are not my bitcoins. They are an obligation of the exchange to pay me back said number of bitcoins."

If the exchange gets hacked and loses its bitcoins, it cannot meet that obligation, and you will have no bitcoins to withdraw. Hence, they were not and are not your bitcoins, they belonged to the exchange.

It's like having money in a bank without deposit insurance. It's not actually your money, it's a bank's obligation to pay you back the money on demand. Will they be able to meet that obligation? Who knows.
They are still your bitcoins, because they can be used as them on demand. That's like saying the money I have at the bank is not my money. Really, all money is just an obligation of someone to pay me back for something.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: proudhon on July 31, 2012, 02:12:26 PM
Everybody, please, repeat after me:

"The bitcoins I have on an exchange are not my bitcoins. They are an obligation of the exchange to pay me back said number of bitcoins."

If the exchange gets hacked and loses its bitcoins, it cannot meet that obligation, and you will have no bitcoins to withdraw. Hence, they were not and are not your bitcoins, they belonged to the exchange.

It's like having money in a bank without deposit insurance. It's not actually your money, it's a bank's obligation to pay you back the money on demand. Will they be able to meet that obligation? Who knows.
They are still your bitcoins, because they can be used as them on demand. That's like saying the money I have at the bank is not my money. Really, all money is just an obligation of someone to pay me back for something.

I don't think you read what he wrote very carefully.  In a simple practical sense, a bitcoin is yours if you control its disbursement.  If an exchange gets hacked and all its bitcoins stolen, and you had bitcoins on the exchange, you no longer have the ability to disburse those bitcoins.  In other words, they're not yours anymore.

And, as runeks pointed out, there's a big difference between money in a BTC exchange and money in a bank.  Typically you have some state backed deposit insurance with the later.  There is no such infrastructure in place for bitcoin, and there likely will never be.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: runeks on July 31, 2012, 02:14:25 PM
They are still your bitcoins, because they can be used as them on demand.
Tell that to ThiagoCMC.

Really, all money is just an obligation of someone to pay me back for something.
No. Money is not necessarily an obligation. Money is the most fungible commodity in an economy. And just like with every other commodity, no one is obligated to give you anything for the money commodity.

Now, currencies - or money substitutes - are obligations. Traditionally, the dollar was an obligation (of the Federal Reserve) to pay someone back in gold, on demand. The British Pound was an obligation of the Bank of England to pay back the holder of said currency in sterling silver. Neither of these currencies are obligations any longer.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: dree12 on July 31, 2012, 02:18:00 PM
They are still your bitcoins, because they can be used as them on demand.
Tell that to ThiagoCMC.

Really, all money is just an obligation of someone to pay me back for something.
No. Money is not necessarily an obligation. Money is the most fungible commodity in an economy. And just like with every other commodity, no one is obligated to give you anything for the money commodity.

Now, currencies - or money substitutes - are obligations. Traditionally, the dollar was an obligation (of the Federal Reserve) to pay someone back in gold, on demand. The British Pound was an obligation of the Bank of England to pay back the holder of said currency in sterling silver. Neither of these currencies are obligations any longer.
Money is an obligation in the sense that it only has value if people pay you back for it.

I don't like how people tell others that the deposits aren't money, because for practical purposes they are. They aren't risk-free though, but nothing is.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: caveden on July 31, 2012, 02:18:39 PM
There is no such infrastructure in place for bitcoin, and there likely will never be.

Why do you say so?
I see a demand for deposit insurance in bitcoin world. If nobody has offered that yet is probably because nobody has the skills and money to start one, or those who eventually have the skills (and money) are not aware, or do not believe in, such demand. In any case, this may change.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: runeks on July 31, 2012, 02:21:59 PM
Money is an obligation in the sense that it only has value if people pay you back for it.
That's not what an obligation is. Just because something only has value (to you) if people are willing to exchange it for something doesn't make it an obligation. No obligation has been entered into by anyone.

I don't like how people tell others that the deposits aren't money, because for practical purposes they are. They aren't risk-free though, but nothing is.
No, for practical purposes, the bitcoins you have at BTC-e right now are not money. They are numbers on a website called btc-e.com.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: dree12 on July 31, 2012, 02:23:09 PM
Money is an obligation in the sense that it only has value if people pay you back for it.
That's not what an obligation is. Just because something only has value (to you) if people are willing to exchange it for something doesn't make it an obligation. No obligation has been entered into by anyone.

I don't like how people tell others that the deposits aren't money, because for practical purposes they are. They aren't risk-free though, but nothing is.
No, for practical purposes, the bitcoins you have at BTC-e right now are not money. They are numbers on a website called btc-e.com.
The bitcoins you have right now are also not money, if you define it that way. They are numbers on your computer.

Also, BTC-E codes were accepted by companies before the hack. These people are (or were) willing to exchange BTC-E codes.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: runeks on July 31, 2012, 02:24:10 PM
Quote
Hoвocти / Trade is stopped

16:04 31.07.12 from support
Dear users of the Exchange Btc-e.com

The exchange is not going to close. We will refund all losses from our reserves.

Neither the servers nor the database were compromised. There were no SQL injections.

At 04:07 MSK (GMT+4) our LR API Secret Key was compromised. It's 16 uppercase, lowercase letters and digits. They may have bruteforced it for long.

Using the key the hacker imitated LR deposits from many accounts and bought up Bitcoins, Namecoins and Litecoins.

We lost our daily volume, approx. 4500 BTC. The attacker couldn't withdraw more
as most BTC were distributed over several offline wallets.

At 10:30 we restored the database to the state it was at 04:00, right before the attack. All trades after 4:00 are reverted.

People who attempted withdrawals before 04:00 MSK will get their funds withdrawn later today.

For people who deposited BTC, LTC and NMC after 04:00 MSK the funds will be put to their balances before market opens.
We are working on the scripts for this.

If you deposited USD after 04:00 MSK you should send us your login, amount and payment system used by email or PM.

Our plan:

1. The trade will be disabled until we restore the balances to the point before market crash.

2. After that, the trade and deposit/withdrawal will be back on, approx. within 1-2 days.

Icq - 610112128
Skype - btc-e.support
E-mail - support@btc-e.com

https://btc-e.com/news/81


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: runeks on July 31, 2012, 02:28:44 PM
The bitcoins you have right now are also not money, if you define it that way. They are numbers on your computer.
No. Because these numbers I have on my computer are actually exchangeable for something. The numbers on btc-e.com are not.

Quote
Also, BTC-E codes were accepted by companies before the hack. These people are (or were) willing to exchange BTC-E codes.
I imagine that will change very quickly. But if this is the case then you are completely correct, a balance at btc-e.com is a sort of money, just not as widely accepted as bitcoins.

I guess my basic point was that it is an error to view as equivalent bitcoins and a bitcoin balance on an exchange. They are not equivalent. Bitcoinica is, perhaps, a better example of this than BTC-E.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: proudhon on July 31, 2012, 02:39:35 PM
The bitcoins you have right now are also not money, if you define it that way. They are numbers on your computer.
No. Because these numbers I have on my computer are actually exchangeable for something. The numbers on btc-e.com are not.

Quote
Also, BTC-E codes were accepted by companies before the hack. These people are (or were) willing to exchange BTC-E codes.
I imagine that will change very quickly. But if this is the case then you are completely correct, a balance at btc-e.com is a sort of money, just not as widely accepted as bitcoins.

I guess my basic point was that it is an error to view as equivalent bitcoins and a bitcoin balance on an exchange. They are not equivalent. Bitcoinica is, perhaps, a better example of this than BTC-E.

runeks, I think there's a lot of confusion around here about things like securities, obligations, commodities, currency, money, etc.  You're addressing a nuance that I don't think most people grasp, because a year and half ago I know I didn't.  But I appreciate your effort.  People like you helped me better understand these things.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: cryptoanarchist on July 31, 2012, 02:48:31 PM
There is no such infrastructure in place for bitcoin, and there likely will never be.

Why do you say so?
I see a demand for deposit insurance in bitcoin world. If nobody has offered that yet is probably because nobody has the skills and money to start one, or those who eventually have the skills (and money) are not aware, or do not believe in, such demand. In any case, this may change.

Modern day deposit insurance is a moral hazard that only exists because the ability to print fiat from nothing exists.

Since bitcoins can't just be created out of thin air, I think it would be very difficult to insure them.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: SkRRJyTC on July 31, 2012, 02:52:07 PM
There is no such infrastructure in place for bitcoin, and there likely will never be.

Why do you say so?
I see a demand for deposit insurance in bitcoin world. If nobody has offered that yet is probably because nobody has the skills and money to start one, or those who eventually have the skills (and money) are not aware, or do not believe in, such demand. In any case, this may change.

Modern day deposit insurance is a moral hazard that only exists because the ability to print fiat from nothing exists.

Since bitcoins can't just be created out of thin air, I think it would be very difficult to insure them.

And without deposit insurance, depositers are forced to consider the risk of depositing with any third party... isn't that terrible  :P


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Mike Jones on July 31, 2012, 02:55:56 PM
Insuring willful failure only disrupts progress and growth. Deposit insurance will hopefully disappear one day.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: runeks on July 31, 2012, 03:02:04 PM
runeks, I think there's a lot of confusion around here about things like securities, obligations, commodities, currency, money, etc.  You're addressing a nuance that I don't think most people grasp, because a year and half ago I know I didn't.  But I appreciate your effort.  People like you helped me better understand these things.
Well you're very welcome. I didn't understand it either one year ago. But bitcoin got me interested in monetary theory and I've read a book on it and seen a lot of talks on the subject, and it's actually not as complicated as many make it out to be. And it's a really fascinating subject.

Money has changed so dramatically over the past 500 years that few people really know what actually constitutes money, in its essence.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Yankee (BitInstant) on July 31, 2012, 03:05:20 PM
Trading has resumed: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=96912.0;topicseen


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: caveden on July 31, 2012, 03:06:06 PM
Modern day deposit insurance is a moral hazard that only exists because the ability to print fiat from nothing exists.

Since bitcoins can't just be created out of thin air, I think it would be very difficult to insure them.

I see your point (same of Mike Jones above, I believe).

Yeah, it's probably very difficult to insurance against something that could so easily be a "voluntary failure". Perhaps really impractical.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: caveden on July 31, 2012, 03:10:06 PM
Trading has resumed: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=96912.0;topicseen

This worries me.
Have they figure out how the password leaked?

It definitely was not brute-forced. In the best case, it was "guessed" or "dictionary attacked" if it was not random enough, and then changing it should be enough. But if it has leaked (what I find most likely), and BTC-e doesn't know how it leaked, then the same thing may just happen again.

The platform should not resume its operations before understanding what happened and taking measures for it not to happen again. At least Liberty Reserves deposits and withdraws should be temporarily closed, since that's what leaked.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: BoardGameCoin on July 31, 2012, 03:20:30 PM
The platform should not resume its operations before understanding what happened and taking measures for it not to happen again. At least Liberty Reserves deposits and withdraws should be temporarily closed, since that's what leaked.

+1


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: runeks on July 31, 2012, 03:30:38 PM
Insuring willful failure only disrupts progress and growth. Deposit insurance will hopefully disappear one day.
Governmental deposit insurance really is just a symptom of our current monetary system. It follows naturally from government-supported fractional reserve banking. When central banks encourage fractional reserve banking, we cannot have a stable monetary system without deposit insurance. Some would argue that's a case for deposit insurance. I would argue it's a case against centrally controlled fractional reserve banking.

Private, voluntary insurance of deposits at private banks I can see nothing wrong with.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: mc_lovin on July 31, 2012, 03:35:17 PM
Trading has resumed: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=96912.0;topicseen

This worries me.
Have they figure out how the password leaked?

It definitely was not brute-forced. In the best case, it was "guessed" or "dictionary attacked" if it was not random enough, and then changing it should be enough. But if it has leaked (what I find most likely), and BTC-e doesn't know how it leaked, then the same thing may just happen again.

The platform should not resume its operations before understanding what happened and taking measures for it not to happen again. At least Liberty Reserves deposits and withdraws should be temporarily closed, since that's what leaked.
Just in case, I would change my password if I re-used one from a BTC-e account.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: cryptoanarchist on July 31, 2012, 03:44:02 PM

This worries me.
Have they figure out how the password leaked?

It definitely was not brute-forced. In the best case, it was "guessed" or "dictionary attacked" if it was not random enough, and then changing it should be enough. But if it has leaked (what I find most likely), and BTC-e doesn't know how it leaked, then the same thing may just happen again.

The platform should not resume its operations before understanding what happened and taking measures for it not to happen again. At least Liberty Reserves deposits and withdraws should be temporarily closed, since that's what leaked.

I'm no expert, but I don't think it was "guessed" or "dictionary attacked" because it wasn't that kind of password. An API key would just be a random string, like a btc address. (like "wE7rtGvs19EImfY5")


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: EuSouBitcoin on July 31, 2012, 03:45:46 PM
Bruteforced the password? I doubt it. 1.54 Hundred Thousand Centuries (Assuming one hundred trillion guesses per second) according to https://www.grc.com/haystack.htm
But instead of a 16 character password, I still prefer the 50 character password I use with uppercase, lowercase, numbers and symbols.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: caveden on July 31, 2012, 04:07:27 PM
I'm no expert, but I don't think it was "guessed" or "dictionary attacked" because it wasn't that kind of password. An API key would just be a random string, like a btc address. (like "wE7rtGvs19EImfY5")

That's why I said I find a leak more likely. Somehow, the attacker found the password.

Does BTC-e have employees or is it a one man show?


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Mike Jones on July 31, 2012, 04:44:43 PM
No reason we cant have financial insurance with bitcoin, put in perspective of the East India Company, Lloyds insurance and pirates on the high seas there isn't a whole lot in the difference.
There is a difference: You can't print more Bitcoins and fractional reserve is difficult to pull.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: cryptoanarchist on July 31, 2012, 04:52:52 PM
No reason we cant have financial insurance with bitcoin, put in perspective of the East India Company, Lloyds insurance and pirates on the high seas there isn't a whole lot in the difference.

The only way someone could insure bitcoins would be to collect enough in premiums to cover a certain amount - which would be the premiums MINUS the insurers operating costs.

Each company would be better off using their money for their own reserves rather than paying premiums to an insurer. Sounds like BTCe had it right, and kept a small enough percentage of their holdings in their hot wallet to prevent catastrophe.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: dree12 on July 31, 2012, 04:54:42 PM
No reason we cant have financial insurance with bitcoin, put in perspective of the East India Company, Lloyds insurance and pirates on the high seas there isn't a whole lot in the difference.

The only way someone could insure bitcoins would be to collect enough in premiums to cover a certain amount - which would be the premiums MINUS the insurers operating costs.

Each company would be better off using their money for their own reserves rather than paying premiums to an insurer. Sounds like BTCe had it right, and kept a small enough percentage of their holdings in their hot wallet to prevent catastrophe.
If there were many small companies, insurance may work by gathering more on average than they pay out.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: tgsrge on July 31, 2012, 05:15:44 PM
according to some quick calculation, a password that uses a 62 characters big alphabet, and is 16 characters long has a maximum theoretical security of 2^80 (this figure is only a very poor estimation)you dont actually need to try all 2^80. you only need to go through 2^40 before you have 50% chance of hitting it. the attacker would compute this offline.2^80 requires a non trivial amount of work but anything below 2^128 is considered theoretically possible.

as far as i can tell from some 2 minute skimming through what is public available on lr's site about their api, they use sha-256.

a 256 bit hash function gives a maximum theoretical security of 2^128. 128 bits is considered out of reach for any sort of brute forcing for the foreseeable future even if all of humanity colluded to do it, so the problem must lie somewhere else if they indeed use sha-256, unless whoever is responsible for the breach has access to a new,undisclosed,unpublished,unknown to the public cryptographical attack on sha-256. this is not likely to be the case. the sha-2 hash function family (of which sha-256 is a part of) is considered state of the art, and a new, real-world practical attack would be MAJOR news and would have very big implications.

so another, more likely possibility is that btc-e did not handle their api key properly (someone from their staff disclosed it, they spilled it out somehow, etc)

another possibility is that they did not generate the api key properly (not random enough, maybe they used a third party to generate it and this third party was malicious or was compromised, maybe the third party also didnt generate it properly, etc.)

it could also be the case is that they are not telling us the entire story, or maybe they didnt use a key that strong.

there is also always the possibility that the api itself is flawed (maybe they used a old version of the api which lr had already replaced but left in anyway for legacy purposes?)

if they used any cryptographically weak hash function, or a hash function that is any shorter than 2^256 it is possible that their key got compromised that way but cryptography is almost never the weakest link.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: 01BTC10 on July 31, 2012, 05:17:37 PM
Bitcoin withdrawal is working now.

Thank you BTC-E, this matter has been handled well. I will continue trading on your platform.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: ThiagoCMC on July 31, 2012, 05:19:54 PM
YAY! Got my coins back!!
Thanks BTC-e!!


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: paraipan on July 31, 2012, 05:24:00 PM
YAY! Got my coins back!!
Thanks BTC-e!!

+1  :)


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on July 31, 2012, 05:27:28 PM
according to some quick calculation, a password that uses a 62 characters big alphabet, and is 16 characters long has a maximum theoretical security of 2^80 (this figure is only a very poor estimation)you dont actually need to try all 2^80. you only need to go through 2^40 before you have 50% chance of hitting it. the attacker would compute this offline.2^80 requires a non trivial amount of work but anything below 2^128 is considered theoretically possible.

Uh no.

Also 80 bits of entropy can be computationally infeasible even with a planetary sized super computer.  Hell an 8 digit password can be made computationally infeasible.  You seem to forget that brute force is based on keyspace ..... AND .... throughput.

What if you can only attempt 100 passwords per second?

Quote
a 256 bit hash function gives a maximum theoretical security of 2^128.
No.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: runeks on July 31, 2012, 05:30:29 PM
a 256 bit hash function gives a maximum theoretical security of 2^128.
You need to specify which attack you are talking about in order to claim that the "security" of a hash function is so-and-so. For a collision attack - finding two messages that hash to the same value - 2^128 attempts is required (to have a 50% possibility of finding it) for a 256-bit hash function. But in order to find which message hashes to a certain hash you need to try 2^256 combinations (for a 50% probability of succeeding).

Also, if a password has 2^80 combinations you need to try 2^80 combinations in order to have a 50% probability of finding the correct password, not 2^40.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: tgsrge on July 31, 2012, 06:13:34 PM
the "you only need to try 2^40 before you have 50% of finding it for  2^80 password" is indeed wrong.
anything < 2^128 is considered theoretically possible and this is this is correct.

and again the attacker does not have to try this against lr's servers, once you have access to the hash you can do the attack in an offline manner, with the limit to how many hashes you an compute only being limited by your computing power.

and a hash function that has had a single collision found is considered cryptographically broken. so that is correct as well.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: elux on July 31, 2012, 06:13:50 PM
You need to specify which attack you are talking about in order to claim that the "security" of a hash function is so-and-so. For a collision attack - finding two messages that hash to the same value - 2^128 attempts is required (to have a 50% possibility of finding it) for a 256-bit hash function. But in order to find which message hashes to a certain hash you need to try 2^256 combinations (for a 50% probability of succeeding).

Also, if a password has 2^80 combinations you need to try 2^80 combinations in order to have a 50% probability of finding the correct password, not 2^40.

Shouldn't that be 2^(N-1). ? In this case, 2^79 tries gives equal odds of finding the key.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: tgsrge on July 31, 2012, 06:15:33 PM
Shouldn't that be 2^(N-1). ? In this case, 2^79 tries gives equal odds of finding the key.
this is correct.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: runeks on July 31, 2012, 06:37:16 PM
You need to specify which attack you are talking about in order to claim that the "security" of a hash function is so-and-so. For a collision attack - finding two messages that hash to the same value - 2^128 attempts is required (to have a 50% possibility of finding it) for a 256-bit hash function. But in order to find which message hashes to a certain hash you need to try 2^256 combinations (for a 50% probability of succeeding).

Also, if a password has 2^80 combinations you need to try 2^80 combinations in order to have a 50% probability of finding the correct password, not 2^40.

Shouldn't that be 2^(N-1). ? In this case, 2^79 tries gives equal odds of finding the key.

You are correct. If you know a certain password can be found within 2^n combinations you only need to try 2^n combinations to be sure to find it (and 2^(n-1) combinations to have a 50% probability).

I was thinking of a pre-image attack. 2^n tries to have a 50% probability applies to a pre-image attack on a hash function (trying to find out what data hashes to a certain value). For example when searching for vanity Bitcoin addresses.

and again the attacker does not have to try this against lr's servers, once you have access to the hash you can do the attack in an offline manner, with the limit to how many hashes you an compute only being limited by your computing power.
What hash are you thinking about? I thought it was an API key. The only one who might hash this is the LR server.

Quote
and a hash function that has had a single collision found is considered cryptographically broken. so that is correct as well.
This isn't the case. Only if a hash function of n-bit entropy requires fewer than 2^(n/2) tries, on average, to find a collision is it considered broken.

For example, before the MD5 hash function was broken, an MD5 collision could be found with a 50% probability by searching through 2^64 combinations. This wasn't impossible to do, and if someone had done it MD5 wouldn't be considered broken.

I could even get extremely lucky and find a collision for SHA-256. But that wouldn't matter unless I could consistently find them trying less than 2^128 combinations, on average.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: ErebusBat on July 31, 2012, 07:12:27 PM
Assuming one hundred trillion guesses per second it would still take 1.54 hundred thousand centuries.

Given this was an API key and not an offline attack: Assuming one thousand guesses per second (which is still *crazy* generous for an online attack) that is 15.41 thousand trillion centuries.

Those numbers are for a 100% search, so even halving them doesn't look very good...


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: jothan on July 31, 2012, 07:32:20 PM
I created an account after the BTC-E went crazy, but before it was announced that it was a hack.

I deposited about 40 BTC, this morning my account does not exist anymore. I contacted the support email address, but I have not gotten a reply. I hope they took a backup before resetting the database...

In any case, I was fully aware of the fact that I was taking a risk and 40 BTC was as much as I can afford to lose right now.

I hope they will at least honour the 40 BTC deposit. I highly doubt they will honour the sells at the high price yesterday.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: cryptoanarchist on July 31, 2012, 07:37:31 PM
I hope they will at least honour the 40 BTC deposit. I highly doubt they will honour the sells at the high price yesterday.

Having trouble buying this.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: adamstgBit on July 31, 2012, 07:50:43 PM
I hope they will at least honour the 40 BTC deposit. I highly doubt they will honour the sells at the high price yesterday.

Having trouble buying this.

they said they will process all BTC deposits and all trades were rolled-back already.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: jothan on July 31, 2012, 07:56:06 PM
I hope they will at least honour the 40 BTC deposit. I highly doubt they will honour the sells at the high price yesterday.

Having trouble buying this.

I got contacted by support, I created a new account and they returned the BTC balance I deposited yesterday so I did not lose any money.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: piramida on July 31, 2012, 08:03:17 PM
I think it should be pretty obvious that nobody bruteforced sha-256 or the key, you are overcomplicating - there are so many ways the password can be leaked and so few ways it could be cracked, that I'd bet my car against a beer on chances of crack vs leak  :)

In most of these API implementations, they key is checked by an endpoint, and in some badly written systems it stores the key for verification directly in code or config files, which in some badly managed systems can be seen by developers or god knows who while in transit. Even if they key only exists on production servers where only trusted admin has access to, who can be sure that their cheap hosting company (interserver) which does backups for them does proper encryption?

All in all, if site operators really believe in what they posted, then it's a good enough reason to never put any BTC on that exchange, as they obviously don't understand what happened. Or lied. Or both :)

PS but at least they handled the situation well. Better than most other victims of the bitcoin economy :)


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: ErebusBat on July 31, 2012, 08:43:47 PM
I think it should be pretty obvious that nobody bruteforced sha-256 or the key, you are overcomplicating - there are so many ways the password can be leaked and so few ways it could be cracked, that I'd bet my car against a beer on chances of crack vs leak  :)

In most of these API implementations, they key is checked by an endpoint, and in some badly written systems it stores the key for verification directly in code or config files, which in some badly managed systems can be seen by developers or god knows who while in transit. Even if they key only exists on production servers where only trusted admin has access to, who can be sure that their cheap hosting company (interserver) which does backups for them does proper encryption?

All in all, if site operators really believe in what they posted, then it's a good enough reason to never put any BTC on that exchange, as they obviously don't understand what happened. Or lied. Or both :)

PS but at least they handled the situation well. Better than most other victims of the bitcoin economy :)

All of this, especially the bolded part.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: pekv2 on July 31, 2012, 09:46:58 PM
Got mine back and returned theirs. I was told the USD was faked.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Energizer on July 31, 2012, 10:32:02 PM
I think it should be pretty obvious that nobody bruteforced sha-256 or the key, you are overcomplicating - there are so many ways the password can be leaked and so few ways it could be cracked, that I'd bet my car against a beer on chances of crack vs leak  :)

In most of these API implementations, they key is checked by an endpoint, and in some badly written systems it stores the key for verification directly in code or config files, which in some badly managed systems can be seen by developers or god knows who while in transit. Even if they key only exists on production servers where only trusted admin has access to, who can be sure that their cheap hosting company (interserver) which does backups for them does proper encryption?

All in all, if site operators really believe in what they posted, then it's a good enough reason to never put any BTC on that exchange, as they obviously don't understand what happened. Or lied. Or both :)

PS but at least they handled the situation well. Better than most other victims of the bitcoin economy :)

It seems more like a Man-in-the-Middle attack, there would have been sniffing involved in uncovering the secret keys. It is also possible that a simple XSS "Cross-Site-Scripting" vulnerability been involved in revealing the secrets "it could be the account number field ;)".


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: ErebusBat on July 31, 2012, 10:39:23 PM
I think it should be pretty obvious that nobody bruteforced sha-256 or the key, you are overcomplicating - there are so many ways the password can be leaked and so few ways it could be cracked, that I'd bet my car against a beer on chances of crack vs leak  :)

In most of these API implementations, they key is checked by an endpoint, and in some badly written systems it stores the key for verification directly in code or config files, which in some badly managed systems can be seen by developers or god knows who while in transit. Even if they key only exists on production servers where only trusted admin has access to, who can be sure that their cheap hosting company (interserver) which does backups for them does proper encryption?

All in all, if site operators really believe in what they posted, then it's a good enough reason to never put any BTC on that exchange, as they obviously don't understand what happened. Or lied. Or both :)

PS but at least they handled the situation well. Better than most other victims of the bitcoin economy :)

It seems more like a Man-in-the-Middle attack, there would have been sniffing involved in uncovering the secret keys. It is also possible that a simple XSS "Cross-Site-Scripting" vulnerability been involved in revealing the secrets "it could be the account number field ;)".
Except this API key shouldn't be doing anything that would be overly vulnerable to XSS.  MiM is possible, but if LR isn't using HTTPS, or they were not verifying the certificate chain (entirely possible) then someone is an idiot.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: runeks on July 31, 2012, 11:05:45 PM
It seems more like a Man-in-the-Middle attack, there would have been sniffing involved in uncovering the secret keys. It is also possible that a simple XSS "Cross-Site-Scripting" vulnerability been involved in revealing the secrets "it could be the account number field ;)".
Except this API key shouldn't be doing anything that would be overly vulnerable to XSS.  MiM is possible, but if LR isn't using HTTPS, or they were not verifying the certificate chain (entirely possible) then someone is an idiot.
I often hear man-in-the-middle attacks mentioned, but how do they work exactly? I mean, I know the attacker is able to position himself between the target and whatever server the target is trying to reach, but how on earth does he do this? By poisoning the DNS cache of the target? Or through some other means? I mean, I find it pretty hard to understand how I can connect to a site, and someone can somehow inject himself into the path between me and the site.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: notme on July 31, 2012, 11:29:46 PM
It seems more like a Man-in-the-Middle attack, there would have been sniffing involved in uncovering the secret keys. It is also possible that a simple XSS "Cross-Site-Scripting" vulnerability been involved in revealing the secrets "it could be the account number field ;)".
Except this API key shouldn't be doing anything that would be overly vulnerable to XSS.  MiM is possible, but if LR isn't using HTTPS, or they were not verifying the certificate chain (entirely possible) then someone is an idiot.
I often hear man-in-the-middle attacks mentioned, but how do they work exactly? I mean, I know the attacker is able to position himself between the target and whatever server the target is trying to reach, but how on earth does he do this? By poisoning the DNS cache of the target? Or through some other means? I mean, I find it pretty hard to understand how I can connect to a site, and someone can somehow inject himself into the path between me and the site.

DNS poisoning, ARP poisoning, script kiddie at your ISP, malware editing your hosts file, etc.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: kano on August 01, 2012, 12:49:51 AM
...
DNS poisoning, ARP poisoning, script kiddie at your ISP, malware editing your hosts file, etc.
Well unless they were hacked, none of those should work over a secure link ...


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: notme on August 01, 2012, 01:01:04 AM
...
DNS poisoning, ARP poisoning, script kiddie at your ISP, malware editing your hosts file, etc.
Well unless they were hacked, none of those should work over a secure link ...

But how do you know it's secure when there are 10 routers belonging to 10 different companies between you and them?

If we're talking SSL they can verify the certificate with a trusted authority, but sometimes even the "trusted authorties" get hacked.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Energizer on August 01, 2012, 01:05:15 AM
It seems more like a Man-in-the-Middle attack, there would have been sniffing involved in uncovering the secret keys. It is also possible that a simple XSS "Cross-Site-Scripting" vulnerability been involved in revealing the secrets "it could be the account number field ;)".
Except this API key shouldn't be doing anything that would be overly vulnerable to XSS.  MiM is possible, but if LR isn't using HTTPS, or they were not verifying the certificate chain (entirely possible) then someone is an idiot.
I often hear man-in-the-middle attacks mentioned, but how do they work exactly? I mean, I know the attacker is able to position himself between the target and whatever server the target is trying to reach, but how on earth does he do this? By poisoning the DNS cache of the target? Or through some other means? I mean, I find it pretty hard to understand how I can connect to a site, and someone can somehow inject himself into the path between me and the site.

There are multiple MITM techniques. The simplest ones are the ones that take place in the same local network where you and the attacker are connected to the same network/subnet. Anyways, what I mean by MITM attack here is that the secret keys were not cracked but been captured. It could have been done by an insider or even someone in the ISP!


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: mb300sd on August 01, 2012, 04:32:33 AM
It seems more like a Man-in-the-Middle attack, there would have been sniffing involved in uncovering the secret keys. It is also possible that a simple XSS "Cross-Site-Scripting" vulnerability been involved in revealing the secrets "it could be the account number field ;)".
Except this API key shouldn't be doing anything that would be overly vulnerable to XSS.  MiM is possible, but if LR isn't using HTTPS, or they were not verifying the certificate chain (entirely possible) then someone is an idiot.
I often hear man-in-the-middle attacks mentioned, but how do they work exactly? I mean, I know the attacker is able to position himself between the target and whatever server the target is trying to reach, but how on earth does he do this? By poisoning the DNS cache of the target? Or through some other means? I mean, I find it pretty hard to understand how I can connect to a site, and someone can somehow inject himself into the path between me and the site.

There are multiple MITM techniques. The simplest ones are the ones that take place in the same local network where you and the attacker are connected to the same network/subnet. Anyways, what I mean by MITM attack here is that the secret keys were not cracked but been captured. It could have been done by an insider or even someone in the ISP!

Not even ISP. BGP is very insecure, anyone able to publish routes can have traffic for any address on the internet routed to them.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: rjk on August 01, 2012, 07:31:30 AM
Not even ISP. BGP is very insecure, anyone able to publish routes can have traffic for any address on the internet routed to them.
Sure, but that is fairly easy to detect and will result in alarm bells ringing all over the world. Remember when China tried that stunt? Big press all over the place about it.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: runeks on August 01, 2012, 01:21:10 PM
BGP is very insecure, anyone able to publish routes can have traffic for any address on the internet routed to them.
And who are able to publish routes? Is it likely that the attacker was able to do this?

Could an attacker have used a tool like sslsniff (http://www.thoughtcrime.org/software/sslsniff/)?

Upon further research, it looks like authentication via the Liberty Reserve API (http://www.libertyreserve.com/en/help/apiguide#authentication) involves hashing (SHA-256) ones secret key with the current time (in a certain format ("<secret>:20070225:14" if the date/time is 2007-02-25 14:xx)). So if the attacker was able to retrieve the plain text HTTP request, he could perhaps be able to brute force the secret key (provided it was weak enough) by simply hashing "<secret>:20070225:14" over and over again, changing <secret> until it matches the hash in the request.

But then, how would he be able to use this information to deposit USD on BTC-E? As far as I know, he'd need to impersonate LR's servers in order to do this, wouldn't he?

As far as I can see though, there's no response to the authentication request from the LR server that uses the secret key in any way. I'd assume the server would reply to an authentication request with something that proves that the server also has the secret key. If it doesn't, BTC-E's servers could connect to anyone in the world and they'd just reply "Sure, that looks good. We approve your authentication". If the server had to respond with, for example, a hash of the authentication data with the secret key added to it, BTC-E's server would be able to verify that whomever they are connected to knows the secret key.
Also, the LR API server can be configured to only accept request from a single IP. I'd sure enable that if I were running an exchange (I presume these have a static IP).

My immediate guess would that the attacker got the secret key off of BTC-E's servers, and not by performing a MITM attack. But yeah, I'm no expert.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: ErebusBat on August 01, 2012, 02:03:56 PM
It seems more like a Man-in-the-Middle attack, there would have been sniffing involved in uncovering the secret keys. It is also possible that a simple XSS "Cross-Site-Scripting" vulnerability been involved in revealing the secrets "it could be the account number field ;)".
Except this API key shouldn't be doing anything that would be overly vulnerable to XSS.  MiM is possible, but if LR isn't using HTTPS, or they were not verifying the certificate chain (entirely possible) then someone is an idiot.
I often hear man-in-the-middle attacks mentioned, but how do they work exactly? I mean, I know the attacker is able to position himself between the target and whatever server the target is trying to reach, but how on earth does he do this? By poisoning the DNS cache of the target? Or through some other means? I mean, I find it pretty hard to understand how I can connect to a site, and someone can somehow inject himself into the path between me and the site.
Generally MiM attacks are only useful on wifi type links for consumer attacks.

HOWEVER lets assume that:
 1. LR allowed API access over HTTP; and
 2. BTCE was stupid enough to use it; and
 3. There was a curious party anywhere in the path between them....

If they grabbed a packet capture... happened to know what it was.... and were 'smart' enough to use it then it is possible.

However the above scenario is HIGHLY unlikely, to the point I have a better chance of answering my door to find mila kunis there ready to be my sex slave AND my wife being ok with it.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: runeks on August 01, 2012, 08:16:59 PM
However the above scenario is HIGHLY unlikely, to the point I have a better chance of answering my door to find mila kunis there ready to be my sex slave AND my wife being ok with it.
Mmmm.

Wait, what were we talking about?


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: dree12 on August 01, 2012, 09:13:33 PM
It seems more like a Man-in-the-Middle attack, there would have been sniffing involved in uncovering the secret keys. It is also possible that a simple XSS "Cross-Site-Scripting" vulnerability been involved in revealing the secrets "it could be the account number field ;)".
Except this API key shouldn't be doing anything that would be overly vulnerable to XSS.  MiM is possible, but if LR isn't using HTTPS, or they were not verifying the certificate chain (entirely possible) then someone is an idiot.
I often hear man-in-the-middle attacks mentioned, but how do they work exactly? I mean, I know the attacker is able to position himself between the target and whatever server the target is trying to reach, but how on earth does he do this? By poisoning the DNS cache of the target? Or through some other means? I mean, I find it pretty hard to understand how I can connect to a site, and someone can somehow inject himself into the path between me and the site.
However the above scenario is HIGHLY unlikely, to the point I have a better chance of answering my door to find mila kunis there ready to be my sex slave AND my wife being ok with it.
What if Mila Kunis is your wife?


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: runeks on August 01, 2012, 10:24:42 PM
I just thought of something. The way one authenticates with Liberty Reserve is flawed because they don't use, at the least, HMAC in the HTTP requests that are supposed to authenticate a user of their API.

When using SHA-256 (as opposed to HMAC-SHA-256) the problem is that it iterates through the message 512 bits at a time. This means that if I hash:

<secret>+<message>

and an attacker knows the hash of this, an attacker can find the hash of a message with something appended to the end, like:

<secret>+<message>+<hacker's message>

which will be as valid as the previous message. He can do this by figuring out the internal state of the variables in the hash function, initializing the hash function with these variables, and continue from where the previous hash function left off.

I'm not good enough at this stuff to figure it out, but this may be exactly what happened. If it is fatal enough, it's possible that an attacker could intercept the HTTP request to LR, which is in the format "<secret>:date:hour", and would currently be:

Code:
<secret>:20120801:23

and then, using the hash in the HTTP request, restore the internal state of the SHA-256 hash function and change the hour value to an hour later and use this to authenticate with LR.

In any case, if a hacker gets the plain text of the HTTP request, he would be able to authenticate with LR for up to an hour - without knowing the secret key - depending on when he intercepts it (if he is able to guess the "API Name") which, as far as I can tell, isn't supposed to be that secret/hard to guess.

In fact, a similar vulnerability was present in Flickr's API and was discovered back in 2009: http://netifera.com/research/flickr_api_signature_forgery.pdf

I'm not sure if, when using a "secret prefix" (as its known), one is able to replace the last part of the message, or if it's just possible to add something to the end though.

In any case it seems LR's API is pretty broke.


Title: Re: BTC-E.COM NICE RECOVERY FROM THE HACK! =)
Post by: tgsrge on August 02, 2012, 02:40:00 AM
if indeed they dont use any scheme to integrity protect their messages, someone that is sitting ANYWHERE between lr and btc-e can modify/inject anything they want into the messages...this could give the person essentially free reign to do whatever it wanted actually.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: mobile4ever on August 02, 2012, 02:57:52 AM
They are still your bitcoins, because they can be used as them on demand.
Tell that to ThiagoCMC.

Really, all money is just an obligation of someone to pay me back for something.
No. Money is not necessarily an obligation. Money is the most fungible commodity in an economy. And just like with every other commodity, no one is obligated to give you anything for the money commodity.

Now, currencies - or money substitutes - are obligations. Traditionally, the dollar was an obligation (of the Federal Reserve) to pay someone back in gold, on demand. The British Pound was an obligation of the Bank of England to pay back the holder of said currency in sterling silver. Neither of these currencies are obligations any longer.


Right. Thanks for clearing that up.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: JoelKatz on August 02, 2012, 03:11:28 AM
I'm not sure if, when using a "secret prefix" (as its known), one is able to replace the last part of the message, or if it's just possible to add something to the end though.
You can only add something to the end. And you have to add the original padding first. So if you have SHA256(M), where M is the original message, you can compute SHA256(M+P+A) where M is the original message, P is the original padding (which is a function of the length of M) and A is what you want to add onto the message.

A simple fix for this is to use SHA256(SHA256(M)) instead of SHA256(M). Now the hash you are revealing is the hash of a fixed-length message, making length-extension attacks impossible. You would need to know the secret to invert the last hash.


Title: Re: BTC-E.COM NICE RECOVERY FROM THE HACK! =)
Post by: runeks on August 02, 2012, 03:02:57 PM
^ Good info. I read the Flickr vulnerabilty paper and it also appears than an attacker needs to know the length of the original message M, in order to perform a length-extension attack. Because the length of the original message is added to the end of the data that is hashed.

I presumed that performing a pre-image attack on such a construction (a secret with known information added to the end) would not require 2^n attempts, on average, for a n-bit entropy hash function. But I think that may be wrong, since a full iteration of the compression function for SHA-256 hasn't been broken yet. And as was proved by Merkle and Damgård, if a full iteration of the compression function is secure, then doing them sequentially is also secure, as I understand it.

if indeed they dont use any scheme to integrity protect their messages, someone that is sitting ANYWHERE between lr and btc-e can modify/inject anything they want into the messages...this could give the person essentially free reign to do whatever it wanted actually.
Well they would need to circumvent the HTTPS encryption first. If they didn't use HTTPS then yes, they were very poorly protected against MITM attacks.


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: ErebusBat on August 02, 2012, 06:15:53 PM
It seems more like a Man-in-the-Middle attack, there would have been sniffing involved in uncovering the secret keys. It is also possible that a simple XSS "Cross-Site-Scripting" vulnerability been involved in revealing the secrets "it could be the account number field ;)".
Except this API key shouldn't be doing anything that would be overly vulnerable to XSS.  MiM is possible, but if LR isn't using HTTPS, or they were not verifying the certificate chain (entirely possible) then someone is an idiot.
I often hear man-in-the-middle attacks mentioned, but how do they work exactly? I mean, I know the attacker is able to position himself between the target and whatever server the target is trying to reach, but how on earth does he do this? By poisoning the DNS cache of the target? Or through some other means? I mean, I find it pretty hard to understand how I can connect to a site, and someone can somehow inject himself into the path between me and the site.
However the above scenario is HIGHLY unlikely, to the point I have a better chance of answering my door to find mila kunis there ready to be my sex slave AND my wife being ok with it.
What if Mila Kunis is your wife?
CHRISTMAS!


Title: Re: HOLY SHIT BTC-E.COM hit $40 per BTC!
Post by: Matthew N. Wright on August 02, 2012, 07:32:13 PM
It seems more like a Man-in-the-Middle attack, there would have been sniffing involved in uncovering the secret keys. It is also possible that a simple XSS "Cross-Site-Scripting" vulnerability been involved in revealing the secrets "it could be the account number field ;)".
Except this API key shouldn't be doing anything that would be overly vulnerable to XSS.  MiM is possible, but if LR isn't using HTTPS, or they were not verifying the certificate chain (entirely possible) then someone is an idiot.
I often hear man-in-the-middle attacks mentioned, but how do they work exactly? I mean, I know the attacker is able to position himself between the target and whatever server the target is trying to reach, but how on earth does he do this? By poisoning the DNS cache of the target? Or through some other means? I mean, I find it pretty hard to understand how I can connect to a site, and someone can somehow inject himself into the path between me and the site.
However the above scenario is HIGHLY unlikely, to the point I have a better chance of answering my door to find mila kunis there ready to be my sex slave AND my wife being ok with it.
What if Mila Kunis is your wife?

I for one would never get on the forums again.