Bitcoin Forum

Economy => Economics => Topic started by: szuetam on July 31, 2012, 09:54:25 AM



Title: How much BTC do you need to live at your level rest of your live without working
Post by: szuetam on July 31, 2012, 09:54:25 AM
My private economy:
I estimate that I will probably live 100 years (just to easy calculate rough number)
It is 1200 months.
I need for living at current level 1800 USD/month.

I want not to have doing nothing.

It means I need 1800USD/month * 1200months = 2 160 000 USD for that.
It gives 216 000 BTC (taking ratio 1:10).
I don't have that kind of money.



If there will be big deflation in BTC and I have 10BTC (for easy scaling) it would have to be 21 600x times more valuable BTC than now in short period of time (before I will start spending them)

Is it good or bad?

It is good because I can afford even 100BTC now so it needs then only 2 160x deflation in BTC
And I estimate that if we will replace all world currencies for BTC it is minimum 60000x deflation in BTC (another thread).

How do you think how much BTC you need to collect and how long it will take for bitcoin to adopt globally?


Title: Re: How much BTC do you need to live at your level rest of your live without working
Post by: unclescrooge on July 31, 2012, 09:57:33 AM
I want to be a trillionomillionaire. All the bitcoins wouldn't be enough for that  :(


Title: Re: How much BTC do you need to live at your level rest of your live without working
Post by: szuetam on July 31, 2012, 10:01:33 AM
I want to be a trillionomillionaire. All the bitcoins wouldn't be enough for that  :(

If I would have all of them it would be almost enough. :)


Title: Re: How much BTC do you need to live at your level rest of your live without working
Post by: tiberiandusk on July 31, 2012, 10:39:09 AM
I have about -$50,000 so I would need about -5376 BTC.


Title: Re: How much BTC do you need to live at your level rest of your live without working
Post by: dree12 on July 31, 2012, 02:21:58 PM
With a free economy making money will be a lot easier, for example buying and selling goods will be far simpler, more profitable for everyone involved and yet far cheaper for the consumer. Goods have to be delivered though, anyone can set up an IPO or get a loan to get funding for a van and get to work. Thats just an example and probably a bad one because a lot of the earnings would have to pay for using the infrastructure (road tax or tolls), fuel and anything else that sits still long enough to have a tax put on it.

I'd guess in 10 years from now just 1btc would be enough to live a comfortable life if they are working and I hope that money will become far less important and greed will fall with it.
10 years from now, if you have 1 BTC, you could be the wealthy elite. Of the 7 billion people in the world, you have 1/21000000 of the wealth!


Title: Re: How much BTC do you need to live at your level rest of your live without working
Post by: szuetam on July 31, 2012, 03:43:48 PM
With a free economy making money will be a lot easier, for example buying and selling goods will be far simpler, more profitable for everyone involved and yet far cheaper for the consumer. Goods have to be delivered though, anyone can set up an IPO or get a loan to get funding for a van and get to work. Thats just an example and probably a bad one because a lot of the earnings would have to pay for using the infrastructure (road tax or tolls), fuel and anything else that sits still long enough to have a tax put on it.

I'd guess in 10 years from now just 1btc would be enough to live a comfortable life if they are working and I hope that money will become far less important and greed will fall with it.
10 years from now, if you have 1 BTC, you could be the wealthy elite. Of the 7 billion people in the world, you have 1/21000000 of the wealth!

wealth hmm is bitcoin wealth it self? it is not, house car etc. are wealth so you could have 1/21000000 of BTC which is very much but it is not all wealth


Title: Re: How much BTC do you need to live at your level rest of your live without working
Post by: Fjordbit on July 31, 2012, 06:40:52 PM
I want about $100k/year. This works out to about 10,000btc/year. Pirate pays 6.5% per week compounded weekly, so I just need 10000/(1.065)^52 or about 379 bitcoins to retire.


Title: Re: How much BTC do you need to live at your level rest of your live without working
Post by: notme on July 31, 2012, 08:31:32 PM
I want about $100k/year. This works out to about 10,000btc/year. Pirate pays 6.5% per week compounded weekly, so I just need 10000/(1.065)^52 or about 379 bitcoins to retire.

You can't assume his current rates will last forever.


Title: Re: How much BTC do you need to live at your level rest of your live without working
Post by: dree12 on July 31, 2012, 08:53:55 PM
I want about $100k/year. This works out to about 10,000btc/year. Pirate pays 6.5% per week compounded weekly, so I just need 10000/(1.065)^52 or about 379 bitcoins to retire.

You can't assume his current rates will last forever.
(several months ago)

Bitscalper pays 5% per day compounded daily, so I just need 10000/(1.05)^365 or about 0.0002 BTC to retire. Maybe if I get 0.0005 BTC from dailybitcoins (http://dailybitcoins.org/) I will be rich!


Title: Re: How much BTC do you need to live at your level rest of your live without working
Post by: Yuhfhrh on August 01, 2012, 12:22:59 PM
I want about $100k/year. This works out to about 10,000btc/year. Pirate pays 6.5% per week compounded weekly, so I just need 10000/(1.065)^52 or about 379 bitcoins to retire.

This statement itself shows just how ridiculous pirate's operation is lol


Title: Re: How much BTC do you need to live at your level rest of your live without working
Post by: Factory on August 01, 2012, 04:11:23 PM
With a free economy making money will be a lot easier, for example buying and selling goods will be far simpler, more profitable for everyone involved and yet far cheaper for the consumer. Goods have to be delivered though, anyone can set up an IPO or get a loan to get funding for a van and get to work. Thats just an example and probably a bad one because a lot of the earnings would have to pay for using the infrastructure (road tax or tolls), fuel and anything else that sits still long enough to have a tax put on it.

I'd guess in 10 years from now just 1btc would be enough to live a comfortable life if they are working and I hope that money will become far less important and greed will fall with it.

Why would greed diminish when fiat currency becomes less relevant? That makes no sense.


Title: Re: How much BTC do you need to live at your level rest of your live without working
Post by: notme on August 01, 2012, 04:22:21 PM
I want about $100k/year. This works out to about 10,000btc/year. Pirate pays 6.5% per week compounded weekly, so I just need 10000/(1.065)^52 or about 379 bitcoins to retire.

This statement itself shows just how ridiculous pirate's operation is lol

Actually, it just shows how ridiculous assuming pirate's operation will continue as is indefinitely is.


Title: Re: How much BTC do you need to live at your level rest of your live without working
Post by: kibblesnbits on August 01, 2012, 09:02:14 PM
My private economy:
I estimate that I will probably live 100 years (just to easy calculate rough number)
It is 1200 months.
I need for living at current level 1800 USD/month.

I want not to have doing nothing.

It means I need 1800USD/month * 1200months = 2 160 000 USD for that.
It gives 216 000 BTC (taking ratio 1:10).
I don't have that kind of money.

what's that? you're in your mid-20's and you want to plug in a few computers and retire? 
I think the Powerball lottery is over $150 mill, so there's always that option ::)


Title: Re: How much BTC do you need to live at your level rest of your live without working
Post by: bg002h on August 03, 2012, 03:00:11 AM
I want about $100k/year. This works out to about 10,000btc/year. Pirate pays 6.5% per week compounded weekly, so I just need 10000/(1.065)^52 or about 379 bitcoins to retire.

I wish more people would understand this...it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see how this will work out in the end.


Title: Re: How much BTC do you need to live at your level rest of your live without working
Post by: notme on August 03, 2012, 04:25:17 AM
I'll just quote myself since you insist on making the exact same point again.

I want about $100k/year. This works out to about 10,000btc/year. Pirate pays 6.5% per week compounded weekly, so I just need 10000/(1.065)^52 or about 379 bitcoins to retire.

This statement itself shows just how ridiculous pirate's operation is lol

Actually, it just shows how ridiculous assuming pirate's operation will continue as is indefinitely is.


Title: Re: How much BTC do you need to live at your level rest of your live without working
Post by: Willowbitcoin on August 03, 2012, 04:40:56 AM
I want about $100k/year. This works out to about 10,000btc/year. Pirate pays 6.5% per week compounded weekly, so I just need 10000/(1.065)^52 or about 379 bitcoins to retire.

So i guess you just intend to live off your compounding bitcoins without spending any ?

That's an interesting task you have set yourself.


Title: Re: How much BTC do you need to live at your level rest of your live without working
Post by: notme on August 03, 2012, 04:43:36 AM
I want about $100k/year. This works out to about 10,000btc/year. Pirate pays 6.5% per week compounded weekly, so I just need 10000/(1.065)^52 or about 379 bitcoins to retire.

So i guess you just intend to live off your compounding bitcoins without spending any ?

That's an interesting task you have set yourself.

Just collateralize it ;).


Title: Re: How much BTC do you need to live at your level rest of your live without working
Post by: gweedo on August 03, 2012, 04:44:34 AM
I am a vampire I am immortal


Title: Re: How much BTC do you need to live at your level rest of your live without working
Post by: notme on August 03, 2012, 05:10:55 AM
I am a vampire I am immortal

You must have accumulated quite a bit off us pathetic mortals over the years... so predictable.


Title: Re: How much BTC do you need to live at your level rest of your live without working
Post by: thezerg on August 03, 2012, 03:31:24 PM
I want to be a trillionomillionaire. All the bitcoins wouldn't be enough for that  :(

If I would have all of them it would be almost enough. :)

If you had all the BTC, they would be worthless.  A fascinating property of bitcoin...


Title: Re: How much BTC do you need to live at your level rest of your live without working
Post by: dree12 on August 03, 2012, 04:35:30 PM
I want about $100k/year. This works out to about 10,000btc/year. Pirate pays 6.5% per week compounded weekly, so I just need 10000/(1.065)^52 or about 379 bitcoins to retire.

So i guess you just intend to live off your compounding bitcoins without spending any ?

That's an interesting task you have set yourself.
Fjord means that only 379 BTC a year is needed. On the first day of the year, deposit 379 BTC, on the last day withdraw it all.


Title: Re: How much BTC do you need to live at your level rest of your live without working
Post by: cytokine on August 03, 2012, 09:35:39 PM
I think all it takes is 20K BTC, but that's highly speculative based on the idea that BTC value will increase and interest rates stay high for a while.

If you are able to earn at least 1%/week on that, that's 200 BTC/week. Then, assuming the amount you can earn by lending out that btc is reduced each week in the future as the market is saturated (plus defaults on loans), you'd need to re-invest at least half your earnings just to keep your future earning potential the same, which still leaves you with around 100 BTC/week to spend, which is $4,000 USD per month @ $10 a coin.

Of course, interest rates will probably fall even more than that, but assuming $100/coin, you could reinvest 90% of your earnings and only spend 10% and still have $4K USD per month in spendable income.

That's enough to live on. So if you've got ~200K USD lying around, and want to be able to potentially retire on that completely, investing in the BTC economy now and aggressively reinvesting your earnings for the next few years is your best shot to make that happen.

Just my .02 btc


Title: Re: How much BTC do you need to live at your level rest of your live without working
Post by: Sunny King on August 04, 2012, 10:42:55 PM
I think a better way to ask is how much BTC we need to free ourselves from mundane work and do more important (maybe unprofitable) things for a change  ;)

Earning interest is not the way though. Remember interest bears the risk of losing your principal. So you would likely lose a lot of principal at some point in your lending career.  :P Overall you cannot expect it to work out like the exponential function, rather more like another job in the marketplace.


Title: Re: How much BTC do you need to live at your level rest of your live without working
Post by: Comepradz on August 19, 2012, 02:58:18 AM
I am a vampire I am immortal
Vampire do Bitcoins


Title: Re: How much BTC do you need to live at your level rest of your live without working
Post by: Oinsane1 on August 22, 2012, 05:23:18 AM
I would retire with 500 Million US dollars worth.. o anything really

thats fuck you money for me


Title: Re: How much BTC do you need to live at your level rest of your live without working
Post by: Fjordbit on September 13, 2012, 05:55:51 PM
I want about $100k/year. This works out to about 10,000btc/year. Pirate pays 6.5% per week compounded weekly, so I just need 10000/(1.065)^52 or about 379 bitcoins to retire.

Oh noes, my retirement plan has failed. I guess I'll just live on Social Security...


Title: Re: How much BTC do you need to live at your level rest of your live without working
Post by: szuetam on September 14, 2012, 06:38:48 PM
I want about $100k/year. This works out to about 10,000btc/year. Pirate pays 6.5% per week compounded weekly, so I just need 10000/(1.065)^52 or about 379 bitcoins to retire.

Oh noes, my retirement plan has failed. I guess I'll just live on Social Security...

Not true actual due to pirate default.


Title: Re: How much BTC do you need to live at your level rest of your live without working
Post by: Jermainé on September 17, 2012, 01:05:50 PM
As far as i can tell bitcoin doesnt hold actually wealth but is based on the worth of other currencies around the world.


Title: Re: How much BTC do you need to live at your level rest of your live without working
Post by: szuetam on September 17, 2012, 01:19:44 PM
As far as i can tell bitcoin doesnt hold actually wealth but is based on the worth of other currencies around the world.

As far as i can tell bitcoin doesnt hold actually wealth

Hmmm... if I have 10000 I can buy good car.
It's wealth for me.

As all fiat it has no gold or any other security, it's power comes from  technology, and prices comes from Bitcoin economy.
But...  what the hell it's connected with topic?


Title: Re: How much BTC do you need to live at your level rest of your live without working
Post by: Fjordbit on September 17, 2012, 03:30:31 PM
As far as i can tell bitcoin doesnt hold actually wealth but is based on the worth of other currencies around the world.

As far as i can tell gold doesnt hold actually wealth but is based on the worth of other currencies around the world.

As far as i can tell stocks and bonds dont hold actually wealth but is based on the worth of other currencies around the world.

As far as i can tell real estate doesnt hold actually wealth but is based on the worth of other currencies around the world.

As far as i can tell money doesnt hold actually wealth but is based on the worth of other currencies around the world.

As far as i can tell these statements make no sense. Everything has a value listed in other currencies. It doesn't mean there is a basis of value in those currencies. The value of bitcoin comes from the equilibrium of bitcoins offered for sale versus bitcoins requested to buy. I've written in the Economics forum on this topic.


Title: Re: How much BTC do you need to live at your level rest of your live without working
Post by: SgtSpike on September 17, 2012, 03:40:11 PM
$3,300/month, or about $40,000/year.  Assuming a 10% interest rate on investments, I would need about 40,000 BTC to retire.


Title: Re: How much BTC do you need to live at your level rest of your live without working
Post by: Explodicle on September 17, 2012, 04:15:42 PM
[Warning: poster is batshit crazy]

I think bitcoin is hastening a technological singularity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity), so saving it for the "rest of my life" seems impossible to determine right now. I'll work until my services are no longer required, at which point I'll have to calculate what speed I can run at (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_uploading) while living off deflation indefinitely.

[/crazy]

I understand how nuts this sounds, so when pitching bitcoin to people I kinda don't mention what I plan on doing with mine. :P


Title: Re: How much BTC do you need to live at your level rest of your live without working
Post by: szuetam on September 17, 2012, 05:38:25 PM
[Warning: poster is batshit crazy]

I think bitcoin is hastening a technological singularity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity), so saving it for the "rest of my life" seems impossible to determine right now. I'll work until my services are no longer required, at which point I'll have to calculate what speed I can run at (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_uploading) while living off deflation indefinitely.

[/crazy]

I understand how nuts this sounds, so when pitching bitcoin to people I kinda don't mention what I plan on doing with mine. :P

I like it. :)

Still, could you try to roughly estimate some numbers? :)
Just give a guess.



Title: Re: How much BTC do you need to live at your level rest of your live without working
Post by: Explodicle on September 17, 2012, 06:06:31 PM
[Warning: poster is batshit crazy]

I think bitcoin is hastening a technological singularity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity), so saving it for the "rest of my life" seems impossible to determine right now. I'll work until my services are no longer required, at which point I'll have to calculate what speed I can run at (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_uploading) while living off deflation indefinitely.

[/crazy]

I understand how nuts this sounds, so when pitching bitcoin to people I kinda don't mention what I plan on doing with mine. :P

I like it. :)

Still, could you try to roughly estimate some numbers? :)
Just give a guess.

I'd guess that someone with more than ~100K BTC today should already be rich enough to live indefinitely, barring unforseen problems. But that's a very uneducated guess.


Title: Re: How much BTC do you need to live at your level rest of your live without working
Post by: Rygon on September 17, 2012, 07:16:20 PM
I want about $100k/year. This works out to about 10,000btc/year. Pirate pays 6.5% per week compounded weekly, so I just need 10000/(1.065)^52 or about 379 bitcoins to retire.

Oh noes, my retirement plan has failed. I guess I'll just live on Social Security...

Not true actual due to pirate default.

Pirate default bankrupted Social Security?!?


Title: Re: How much BTC do you need to live at your level rest of your live without working
Post by: szuetam on September 17, 2012, 07:35:15 PM
I want about $100k/year. This works out to about 10,000btc/year. Pirate pays 6.5% per week compounded weekly, so I just need 10000/(1.065)^52 or about 379 bitcoins to retire.

Oh noes, my retirement plan has failed. I guess I'll just live on Social Security...

Not true actual due to pirate default.

Pirate default bankrupted Social Security?!?

No. :)


Title: Re: How much BTC do you need to live at your level rest of your live without working
Post by: FreeMoney on September 17, 2012, 07:45:08 PM
[Warning: poster is batshit crazy]

I think bitcoin is hastening a technological singularity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity), so saving it for the "rest of my life" seems impossible to determine right now. I'll work until my services are no longer required, at which point I'll have to calculate what speed I can run at (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_uploading) while living off deflation indefinitely.

[/crazy]

I understand how nuts this sounds, so when pitching bitcoin to people I kinda don't mention what I plan on doing with mine. :P

+1

I plan to be crazy for a very long time.