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Title: . Post by: ChicagoSchooler on March 01, 2015, 09:27:02 PM .
Title: Re: Fastest full confirmation times Post by: qwizzie on March 01, 2015, 09:53:31 PM BTC gives you near certainty at 60 minutes. XRP's at 10 seconds. The Ideal Reserve can do it in 500 milliseconds. Is there anything faster? Darkcoin can do it with InstantX in 4 to 6 seconds and provides you with trustless decentralised anonymity if you choose to. Title: Re: Fastest full confirmation times Post by: qwizzie on March 01, 2015, 10:17:18 PM The Ideal Reserve can do it in 500 milliseconds. Is there anything faster? Darkcoin can do it with InstantX in 4 to 6 seconds and provides you with anonymity if you choose to. Just read up InstantX, and that looks like the time consumed by one confirmation. How many InstantX confirmations are required for full confirmation? With InstantX you will need 5 masternode confirmations (thats those 4 till 6 seconds) after which the amount has been transferred and also added to the receiver's total balance. It will then only need 1 POW confirmation (normally some 2 and halve minutes) to get its 6th confirmation visible in both sender and receiver wallets. So InstantX is best used in those point-of-sale situations where you do not want to wait for POW confirmations but still need assurance that this transaction will not only get on the blockchain but be confirmed as well. Think for example of Bitpay that will pay invoices right away as soon as a transaction is visible on the network, the transaction has not been confirmed yet but Bitpay is taking that responsebility on its shoulders and is approving the invoice already with 0 confirmations. InstantX gives you that confirmation (because the MN network reaches concensus through those 5 MN confirmations) and does that very fast without risks of double spending. Title: Re: Fastest full confirmation times Post by: qwizzie on March 01, 2015, 10:42:25 PM With InstantX you will need 5 masternode confirmations (thats those 4 till 6 seconds) after which the amount has been transferred and also added to the receiver's total balance. It will then only need 1 POW confirmation (normally some 2 and halve minutes) to get its 6th confirmation visible in both sender and receiver wallets. So InstantX is best used in those point-of-sale situations where you do not want to wait for POW confirmations but still need assurance that this transaction will not only get on the blockchain but be confirmed as well. Think for example of Bitpay that will pay invoices right away as soon as a transaction is visible on the network, the transaction has not been confirmed yet but Bitpay is taking that responsebility on its shoulders and is approving the invoice already with 0 confirmations. 150 seconds is a lifetime for point-of-sale. Uncertainty from a 0 confirmation transaction is also out of the question unless if the retailer wants to raise prices to compensate for that risk. look at it this way : customer walk into a shop and buys a product through InstantX in 4 to 6 seconds customer can now leave shop with product as InstantX not only confirmed this transaction 5 times through masternodes but also registered it on the blockchain. shop waits for 1 POW confirmation before it can do anything further with that amount (not a big beal for most shops) InstantX creates a fast way to not only get your transaction registered on the blockchain but also gives you assurance through 5 masternode confirmations that it will be POW confirmed and not double spend. Plus you can choose to do this transaction anonymous or not. Title: Re: Fastest full confirmation times Post by: qwizzie on March 01, 2015, 11:01:36 PM look at it this way : customer walk into a shop and buys a product through InstantX in 4 to 6 seconds customer can now leave shop with product as InstantX not only confirmed this transaction 5 times through masternodes but also registered it on the blockchain. shop waits for 1 POW confirmation before it can do anything further with that amount (not a big beal for most shops) InstantX creates a fast way to not only get your transaction registered on the blockchain but also gives you assurance through 5 masternode confirmations that it will be POW confirmed and not double spend. If the transaction fails then the seller is out of money, so they will either have to raise prices or stop accepting that currency. I prefer to look at it this way: The Ideal Reserve achieves full global reconciliation almost always within 500ms and effective global reconciliation almost always within 250ms. Convincing someone to use a currency faster than cash will be an easier argument than to use a currency orders of magnitude slower than cash. Once the masternodes reach 5 confirmations (4 till 6 seconds) the seller got the money added to his total, thats what matters here. Buyer can now leave with his product and seller already got his money. Those 5 masternode confirmations are basicly as valuable as 5 POW confirmations because they reach network censensus over that transaction and lock the amount untill its POW confirmed further. Title: Re: Fastest full confirmation times Post by: solid12345 on March 01, 2015, 11:01:41 PM I prefer to look at it this way: The Ideal Reserve achieves full global reconciliation almost always within 500ms and effective global reconciliation almost always within 250ms. Convincing someone to use a currency faster than cash will be an easier argument than to use a currency orders of magnitude slower than cash. I still have yet to hear a good argument for Bitcoin use in the brick and mortar world except perhaps for cottage commerce like two people at a flea market exchanging cash. To me its greatest strength is easily sending money online, micro transactions or being "digital gold" as a hedge against the USD, not as something to buy a cup of coffee with. Also instantx is moot as no major retailer will ever accept a coin called Darkcoin. Title: Re: Fastest full confirmation times Post by: qwizzie on March 01, 2015, 11:07:40 PM I prefer to look at it this way: The Ideal Reserve achieves full global reconciliation almost always within 500ms and effective global reconciliation almost always within 250ms. Convincing someone to use a currency faster than cash will be an easier argument than to use a currency orders of magnitude slower than cash. I still have yet to hear a good argument for Bitcoin use in the brick and mortar world except perhaps for cottage commerce like two people at a flea market exchanging cash. To me its greatest strength is easily sending money online, micro transactions or being "digital gold" as a hedge against the USD, not as something to buy a cup of coffee with. Also instantx is moot as no major retailer will ever accept a coin called Darkcoin. InstantX is a service that runs on the masternode network, who is to say that this specific service wont be used under another name ? or perhaps it will just be called ''payment possible through InstantX''. A few years ago a lot of people were also saying Bitcoin will never be accepted by large any major retailer and see where we are now ? Its impossible to predict the future and tell people what a name can or can not achieve. Title: Re: Fastest full confirmation times Post by: mitus-2 on March 01, 2015, 11:08:02 PM BTC+greenaddress.it make confirmations instanct!
Title: Re: Fastest full confirmation times Post by: qwizzie on March 01, 2015, 11:17:39 PM If the transaction fails then the seller is out of money, so they will either have to raise prices or stop accepting that currency. I prefer to look at it this way: The Ideal Reserve achieves full global reconciliation almost always within 500ms and effective global reconciliation almost always within 250ms. Convincing someone to use a currency faster than cash will be an easier argument than to use a currency orders of magnitude slower than cash. Once the masternodes reach 5 confirmations (4 till 6 seconds) the seller got the money added to his total, thats what matters here. Buyer can now leave with his product and seller already got his money. Those 5 masternode confirmations are basicly as valuable as 5 POW confirmations because they reach network censensus over that transaction and lock the amount untill its POW confirmed further. What matters is time consumed and risk. Either the seller doesn't wait and takes on the risk of a 0 confirmation transaction, or the buyer waits 3 minutes, wasting his time. Either way, it's more costly than cash and cannot hope to compete there. lets me try it one last time : Seller : 4 to 6 seconds --> 5 confirmations ---> give customer product Buyer : 4 to 6 seconds --> 5 confirmations --> leave shop with product Transaction over.. done.. finished. Happy customer and happy shop. If Seller wants to spend Buyer's specific amount (which is already on its total balance !!) then Seller needs to wait for 6th confirmation (this will be POW confirmation and takes some minutes). The transaction itself however has long been done between Seller and Buyer. There is no further risk. Title: Re: Fastest full confirmation times Post by: TaunSew on March 01, 2015, 11:22:52 PM I can think of a few coins with almost instant confirmations and yet they aren't showing signs of any immediate adoption.
Problem in crypto currencies have never been about the speed - people are already using BTC to buy stuff from merchants and they don't wait 50 minutes for a complete confirmation. More immediate problems like 1. No user adoption at all (no advertising, whatsoever, outside of internet forums) 2. Blockchain size (even NXT now, some people are reporting, is taking hours to load. Or BTC which is exponentially growing in size and already is too big / too long to load). Title: Re: Fastest full confirmation times Post by: qwizzie on March 01, 2015, 11:26:11 PM lets me try it once last time : Seller : 4 to 6 seconds --> 5 confirmations ---> give customer product Buyer : 4 to 6 seconds --> 5 confirmations --> leave shop with product Transaction over.. done.. finished. Happy customer and happy shop. If Seller wants to spend Buyer's specific amount then Seller needs to wait for 6th confirmation (this will be POW confirmation and takes some minutes). The transaction itself however has long been done between Seller and Buyer. There is no further risk. It still requires 3 minutes. Annoyed customer, lost business due to time consumed to complete a sale. If the seller needs to refund any or all of the transaction, even more time is consumed. Each error compounds the lost business. Annoyed customer how ? he is already at home with his product for customer : only 4 till 6 seconds to reach 5 masternode confirmations !!!! leaves shop with product Title: Re: Fastest full confirmation times Post by: TaunSew on March 01, 2015, 11:28:37 PM lets me try it once last time : Seller : 4 to 6 seconds --> 5 confirmations ---> give customer product Buyer : 4 to 6 seconds --> 5 confirmations --> leave shop with product Transaction over.. done.. finished. Happy customer and happy shop. If Seller wants to spend Buyer's specific amount then Seller needs to wait for 6th confirmation (this will be POW confirmation and takes some minutes). The transaction itself however has long been done between Seller and Buyer. There is no further risk. It still requires 3 minutes. Annoyed customer, lost business due to time consumed to complete a sale. If the seller needs to refund any or all of the transaction, even more time is consumed. Each error compounds the lost business. Annoyed customer how ? he is already at home with his product for customer : only 4 till 6 seconds to reach 5 masternode confirmations !!!! Maybe he's armchair intellectual or something. I've spent longer getting a credit card purchase improved. In fact, most of the lineups you see in stores are because of credit cards taking a long time to be approved Title: Re: Fastest full confirmation times Post by: qwizzie on March 01, 2015, 11:31:42 PM lets me try it once last time : Seller : 4 to 6 seconds --> 5 confirmations ---> give customer product Buyer : 4 to 6 seconds --> 5 confirmations --> leave shop with product Transaction over.. done.. finished. Happy customer and happy shop. If Seller wants to spend Buyer's specific amount then Seller needs to wait for 6th confirmation (this will be POW confirmation and takes some minutes). The transaction itself however has long been done between Seller and Buyer. There is no further risk. It still requires 3 minutes. Annoyed customer, lost business due to time consumed to complete a sale. If the seller needs to refund any or all of the transaction, even more time is consumed. Each error compounds the lost business. Annoyed customer how ? he is already at home with his product for customer : only 4 till 6 seconds to reach 5 masternode confirmations !!!! Maybe he's armchair intellectual or something. I've spent longer getting a credit card purchase improved. In fact, most of the lineups you see in stores are because of credit cards taking a long time to be approved yeah, thats why people say InstantX could be a direct competitor to the creditcard corporations. Too early to tell but i sure hope so. Title: Re: Fastest full confirmation times Post by: TaunSew on March 01, 2015, 11:40:18 PM I can think of a few coins with almost instant confirmations and yet they aren't showing signs of any immediate adoption. Which ones? I can't find anything that approaches 500ms full confirmation. I'm relying on anecdotal accounts but Ripple is supposedly very fast. Never took a stop watch to it but NODE seems to do full confirmations before I can even reload the page. There's bound to be a lot of examples out there but problem isn't speed but simply nobody really using any of this stuff. Bitcoin itself is only 250,000 over 6 years and that's craptastic (Whatsapp is newer and has 300+ million users. Inb4 you say bitcoin is completely new, personal messaging / digital payments goes back to 1990s and it doesn't explain why payment processors like PayPal got 150 million users and they only support like 20-ish currencies around the world, so they're keeping people out at that). Title: Re: Fastest full confirmation times Post by: TaunSew on March 01, 2015, 11:44:42 PM https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=960938.0
What about these people? Title: Re: Fastest full confirmation times Post by: inBitweTrust on March 01, 2015, 11:46:20 PM BTC gives you near certainty at 60 minutes. Bitcoin gives near certain confirmation within a couple seconds by a simply query to other nodes' mempool via BIP035. Mycelium local trader does this with the “Transaction Confidence” bar and payment processors like bitpay do. Interpayment channels will be coming soon for instant confirmations: http://impulse.is/ Title: Re: Fastest full confirmation times Post by: Daedelus on March 01, 2015, 11:49:42 PM even NXT now, some people are reporting, is taking hours to load. Or BTC which is exponentially growing in size and already is too big / too long to load). Links? Or is this more baseless FUD? Title: Re: Fastest full confirmation times Post by: Daedelus on March 01, 2015, 11:51:08 PM BTC gives you near certainty at 60 minutes. XRP's at 10 seconds. The Ideal Reserve can do it in 500 milliseconds. Is there anything faster? How can a transaction propagate across the globe and be confirmed in 0.5 sec? Title: Re: Fastest full confirmation times Post by: TaunSew on March 01, 2015, 11:57:11 PM Not sure if you're getting my point. There's been thousands of alternatives to Bitcoin and practically all of them are dead - only 300 or so projects have any worth. User adoption won't come from fast confirmations. I even read other posts here, about your project, which said you guys have like 98.5% premine. Does the world need another Ripple / Stellar? No.
Title: Re: Fastest full confirmation times Post by: qwizzie on March 01, 2015, 11:57:57 PM I can think of a few coins with almost instant confirmations and yet they aren't showing signs of any immediate adoption. Which ones? I can't find anything that approaches 500ms full confirmation. It still requires 3 minutes. Annoyed customer, lost business due to time consumed to complete a sale. If the seller needs to refund any or all of the transaction, even more time is consumed. Each error compounds the lost business. Annoyed customer how ? he is already at home with his product for customer : only 4 till 6 seconds to reach 5 masternode confirmations !!!! leaves shop with product The seller has to wait for the funds to be released or take risk. I've spent longer getting a credit card purchase improved. In fact, most of the lineups you see in stores are because of credit cards taking a long time to be approved Indeed, and The Ideal Reserve's 500ms is easily preferred to any other solution since it's the lowest time cost. yeah, thats why people say InstantX could be a direct competitor to the creditcard corporations. Too early to tell but i sure hope so. 3 minutes will be a tough sell. not really as it only takes 4 to 6 seconds .. good luck with your thread, you seem very narrow minded with this all so yr gonna need it. Title: Re: Fastest full confirmation times Post by: Daedelus on March 02, 2015, 12:29:52 AM How do you know the transaction went to all nodes? Won't the chance of forking increase drastically over time if you can't be sure all nodes have come to concensus?
Title: Re: Fastest full confirmation times Post by: inBitweTrust on March 02, 2015, 12:40:30 AM BIP035 only confirms that a transaction has been received by a node. It is not block confirmation and certainly not full confirmation. Have you ever made an in person purchase with bitcoin before? Checking the mempool for doublespends is one method amongst others to insure that a confirmation is legitimate. Please provide me with some examples of fraud commited against coinbase or bitpay with 0 confirmation transactions. Are transactors to trust the creditworthiness of impulse just like with greenaddress? If so, costs have only been transformed not reduced. Interpayment channels and micropayment channels don't necessarily need third parties to work and can reply upon CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY and mutisig to work. We will be generous with bounties, but I consider The Ideal Reserve valuable, so something of value must be produced in exchange for MØ. Please provide your name and all the developers names and identities supporting this project. Title: Re: Fastest full confirmation times Post by: stopsigningbitch on March 02, 2015, 01:22:11 AM OP's ideal reserve doesn't exist. He's been here trying to auction off coins for a "currency" that isn't even made yet. The guy's a scammer. You darkcoin fanboys should do well not to respond to this guy. You're arguing over an actual shitcoin with actual confirmation times vs a shitcoin that doesn't exist with made up "500 millisecond" confirmation times.
If you want proof, google "Ideal Reserve Bitcoin", and it only comes up with this, https://www.reddit.com/r/IdealReserveOTC/, which is coins the OP has been trying to auction off without even having a currency. He(ChicagoSchooler) is a scammer. Either that, or he's trolling everyone with a madeup coin, or just plain crazy. Title: Re: Fastest full confirmation times Post by: inBitweTrust on March 02, 2015, 01:37:05 AM I haven't looked at any data on BTC fraud because the technology is obsolete, so the opportunity cost would be too high. XRP was the only viable cryptocurrency before The Ideal Reserve. If you have no idea how secure 0 confirmations can be because you haven't done your research than how can you judge if the technology is obsolete? Wouldn't you need to understand Bitcoin before you suggest it is obsolete? How are they instantaneous if they require 6 confirmations and 60 minutes for certainty? Interpayment channels and micropayment channels are instant and don't require waiting for any confirmations. That is the whole purpose of them. We are unable to do that, but I have been coding and have been studying economics particularly financial, monetary, and experimental since the 90s. I do not have permission from any other Founding Accountholders to reveal any of their personal information. If the purpose of this coin is not to overthrow anything- https://archive.today/zwi5H Quote The Ideal Reserve is designed not to overtake the system but rather to provide it more facility. Quote The Ideal Reserve doesn't want to overthrow anything. The Ideal Reserve was designed to make everything financial the individual uses more valuable and less costly. Why are you going the route of a not being upfront with your identities? Am I supposed to use this currency to buy hookers and blow or make everyday transactions? Are you an anarchist who recommends tax evasion? Title: Re: Fastest full confirmation times Post by: inBitweTrust on March 02, 2015, 02:37:33 AM OP's ideal reserve doesn't exist. He's been here trying to auction off coins for a "currency" that isn't even made yet. The guy's a scammer. You darkcoin fanboys should do well not to respond to this guy. You're arguing over an actual shitcoin with actual confirmation times vs a shitcoin that doesn't exist with made up "500 millisecond" confirmation times. If you want proof, google "Ideal Reserve Bitcoin", and it only comes up with this, https://www.reddit.com/r/IdealReserveOTC/, which is coins the OP has been trying to auction off without even having a currency. He(ChicagoSchooler) is a scammer. Either that, or he's trolling everyone with a madeup coin, or just plain crazy. OF course this is a scam, and ChicagoSchooler and kommoncents are the same person with 2 accounts. The purpose of my posts is to gather more evidence and document the scam for others to view and to hand over to investigators. This scammer isn't very well educated(he is completely ignorant to some very basic concepts within Bitcoin) and lazy but there still may be a few innocent newbies that fall for this and thus it is critical that take a few precautionary steps everytime one of these grifters come forward. Quoting his post because it is comedy gold: If you have no idea how secure 0 confirmations can be because you haven't done your research than how can you judge if the technology is obsolete? Wouldn't you need to understand Bitcoin before you suggest it is obsolete? Certainty is impossible with BTC at the moment of transaction. Certainty increases over time. If the incentive and opportunity were high enough, attacks on confirmation would be more common, but adoption of BTC outside of the cryptocurrency has stalled and appears to be reversing. Many are still free to ride a horse, but a car is available. How are they instantaneous if they require 6 confirmations and 60 minutes for certainty? Interpayment channels and micropayment channels are instant and don't require waiting for any confirmations. That is the whole purpose of them.If the creditworthiness of the providers is trusted, yes. This creditworthiness may only need apply to varying rates of varying times, but it is still a cost due to the fact that BTC cannot fully confirm until at least 60 minutes have passed. Title: Re: Fastest full confirmation times Post by: inBitweTrust on March 02, 2015, 02:58:15 AM kommoncents should be back in about a week or so and will take back over public relations. If you have any reason why you think this is a scam aside from our preference for anonymity, please disclose the accusation, so I can respond. Thank you in advance. 1) One of the worst websites I have ever seen 2) Private whois, hidden identities for a coin that doesn't wish to overthrow anything (IF you have nothing to hide disclose your real identities) 3) No Formal Whitepaper 4) 100% premine with an ICO 5) Newbie accounts on bitcointalk with use of shill accounts controlled by same person 6) Unrealistic technical claims with no rudimentary understanding of Bitcoin and yet has the nerve to call it obsolete 7) Lack of Github repository and closed source 8 Unrealistic and unproven economic claims ect.... The stench of shit is overpowering from this "coin" and everyone should run from this turd as quickly as possible. Title: Re: Fastest full confirmation times Post by: stopsigningbitch on March 02, 2015, 03:26:54 AM kommoncents should be back in about a week or so and will take back over public relations. If you have any reason why you think this is a scam aside from our preference for anonymity, please disclose the accusation, so I can respond. Thank you in advance. 1) One of the worst websites I have ever seen 2) Private whois, hidden identities for a coin that doesn't wish to overthrow anything (IF you have nothing to hide disclose your real identities) 3) No Formal Whitepaper 4) 100% premine with an ICO 5) Newbie accounts on bitcointalk with use of shill accounts controlled by same person 6) Unrealistic technical claims with no rudimentary understanding of Bitcoin and yet has the nerve to call it obsolete 7) Lack of Github repository and closed source 8 Unrealistic and unproven economic claims ect.... The stench of shit is overpowering from this "coin" and everyone should run from this turd as quickly as possible. 1) We take a Warren Buffett approach: no frills. 2) Yes, we are anonymous. 3) The Clotho-Hydra and Argus-Nemesis are proprietary, owned by all accountholders. I will let the accountholders decide if they want to disclose how their competitive advantage functions for others to copy. 4) Yes, 100% was given to the Founding Accountholders. We own slightly less than that now. There was no ICO, but we do want to auction off some for price discovery and so that non-founders and those no associated with non-founders may enjoy the benefits of ~500ms full confirmation and continual price stability. 5) We've never had a reason to come to bitcointalk, but I'm enjoying the Economics sub-forum immensely. kommoncents will be back in about a week. I did tell it about your accusation, so it may be back sooner to join in. 6) Testing the speed claim is relatively easy (https://www.reddit.com/r/IdealReserve/comments/2vff45/can_you_prove_the_speed/) though the wireshark method would be less onerous. Unfortunately, BTC is obsolete and should be eclipsed by XRP relatively soon. I do empathize with any who've made investments in BTC's long run future. 7) The Ideal Reserve Client is on github (https://github.com/ChicagoSchooler/IdealReserveClient), and it is semi-open source, that anyone may use it for beneficial purposes of The Ideal Reserve. There are actually two bounties (https://www.reddit.com/r/IdealReserve/search?q=bounty&restrict_sr=on) open to create iOS and Android apps based upon it. It will be a happy day when paying off those 8 The data necessary to reconstruct the economic claims are free and readily available. Unfortunately, I will not be able to assist with their reconstruction, either. If you'll pardon me, these seem to be more personal and definitely not criminal. Do you have any evidence of a criminal act? There is nothing I can do to change BTC's competitive disadvantage. The community will have to handle that itself. I am not to blame for that fact. So essentially, if this is at all real and none of it you're just making up...You released a coin to a few people(Chances are those "account holders" are just sockpuppets of yourself) outside this forum who own 100% of the coins that will ever be available? Yea, nice work there...It seems you didnt learn from NXT's distribution. In fact, if this is real, your distribution of this "coin" is the worst I have ever seen. Title: Re: Fastest full confirmation times Post by: stopsigningbitch on March 02, 2015, 04:32:17 AM your distribution of this "coin" is the worst I have ever seen. Well, there is only one thing that you can to to increase the distribution of this "coin"..... buy some Back to the OP's original question on who has 10 second transaction times: that's easy, "BitUSD" We have no idea where, who, or how the OP distributed his "coins" since he didn't use Bitcointalk at all and hasn't told us anything regarding distribution, his "coin" isnt listed on any known exchanges, and the only way to buy his "coin" is through him on one of his scam auctions. So why the Hell would I buy any? Lmao, this is 100% a scam. |