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LOL this thread is hilarious, Its funny to read all of the posts of people trying to strong arm this guy into returning the BTC.  I'm curious at wich exchange did this happen? I didn't see it mentioned yet. intersango ... they are the ones with the shitty code. And I know right?! Strongarm is funny... trying to scare. WRONG!!!!!!!!!! No one is getting scared. |
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I'd just give them back because... well, I wasn't raised by shithead parents. Ben Davis's behavior is reflective of parental failure.
LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO |
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LOL congrats super citizen! But again, when I wake up and there are 511 BTC in my wallet, how did I take them? Can you please explain where I took anything?
The tort of conversion does not require that you took it, only that you deprived the rightful owner of it. So, it gets you off the hook for theft, in the sense you aren't liable in the same way as say had you gone into his house and stolen them from him. But you are liable to him for the tort he suffers by you depriving him of it, which may very well include his legal costs in pursuing its return. Remember the iPhone lost in a bar? If your assumption is correct, Gizmodo should have been able to tell Apple, "Sorry, finder's keepers". But of course, that's not the way it works in California, and that's not the way it works in Oregon either. Hopefully for you, you're still anonymous. If your identity is known, this is gonna bite ya in the ass one way or another! Hopefully you got an extra $10k on top of the 511 BTC you stole to pay for his AND your attorney if and when it finally gets settled. Best return it now. I can't wait to see what my lawyer says! |
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Gold has tremendous value
Please tell me the current value of 1 oz of gold, and what you did to get to that value. I see where you are going with this. Good point. |
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work in progressThe victim has all the necessary information (including where the thief lives) to file a police report. I'm not sure it'd be kosher to publish it on a public forum, though. Lots of crazies around here 
You are WRONG. I am NOT in possession of anyone elses property. Once the Bitcoin transfer was complete, it is MY property now. You ALL know this. That is how the game goes. Stop acting like a bitch because you are jealous it didn't happen to you.
If I send you 500 BTC, it is YOUR property now. NOT mine. That is how BTC works. WE ALL know this.
I am quite certain that's not how it works in Oregon. Do we have this guy's real name and address? This is definitely attorney-worthy. I imagine you can find information searching google and other sites starting from alias BenDavis. From already public informations, here's information that I found: aliases: BenDavis, DLowDAOG Stop being a detective pussy lmfaooo he already has my name, where I work, where I live, pictures of me, so stop being a little bitch and being a detective lmfaoooo you my friend, are a pussy. |
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And I will reply to the judge, they are WORTHLESS, until they are sold at an exchange.
Anyhow, I am talking to my lawyer right now. Will report what he says.
Not that that's an excuse that any judge would buy. If it were, you could steal gold and claim the same thing. But yeah, please do let us know what your lawyer says. Again, bad analogy. Gold has tremendous value on its own. Bit coin data has no value. But yeah ... talking to lawyer lol hold up I will be back |
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You are WRONG. I am NOT in possession of anyone elses property. Once the Bitcoin transfer was complete, it is MY property now. You ALL know this. That is how the game goes. Stop acting like a bitch because you are jealous it didn't happen to you.
If I send you 500 BTC, it is YOUR property now. NOT mine. That is how BTC works. WE ALL know this.
I am quite certain that's not how it works in Oregon. Do we have this guy's real name and address? This is definitely attorney-worthy. I imagine you can find information searching google and other sites starting from alias BenDavis. The victim has all the necessary information (including where the thief lives) to file a police report. I'm not sure it'd be kosher to publish it on a public forum, though. Lots of crazies around here Again, can you explain how I am a thief, when I wake up and there are 511 BTC in my wallet? Elaborate. I do not see how that means theft. |
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Bro, the transfer has no monetary value. If I send you 1000000 BTC, they have NO VALUE. Until you sell them. Patrick is going to have a BITCH of a time trying to get any court to prosecute me. I welcome the challenge. He will spend WAY more than 511 worth of BTC at an exchange rate of 8.5 on his lawyer fees lmfaoooooo
You really think cops are just going to show up at my door and cuff me, put me in jail? You guys are smoking something bad!!!!!!
That is not true. They have an easily established value. All of this talk about "a judge won't recognize these as having value" is complete nonsense. Absolutely certain of it. Not only that, but with the way you are brazenly shirking this, the person who may very likely be liable for the lawyer fees in the end is the clown who took the 511 BTC he wasn't entitled to and who claims he "OWNS" them. Patrick, FYI, I have saved this entire thread to a PDF file, just in case mr. DAOG realizes that deleting his own posts is a wise idea. I am in the US and am able to produce an affidavit in support of your complaint against this guy, assuming you can identify him, in support of the fact that bitcoins have value and such questions that would be asked by the authorities in Oregon. LOL congrats super citizen! But again, when I wake up and there are 511 BTC in my wallet, how did I take them? Can you please explain where I took anything? |
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Wrong. The 511 BTC of data have ZERO value. So, it is NOT greater than 1000 dollars. It is ZERO dollars. It only becomes dollars when it is traded to an exchange. Come on now. You are more intelligent then that.
Stop it B. Stop it.
Meh, I'm pretty sure 'value' is irrelevent before the fact its 'property' (parts of data). Once its property, all the judge is gonna ask is 'whats it worth?'. I've seen plenty of Judge Judy to know when someone steals a TV, even though its not currency, the courts can still estimate a value of what it'd be worth once it was converted to currency. And then you pay that. lol another TERRIBLE analogy. The TV is not 'digital data' - the TV is worth something. You do not have to take a TV to an exchange and trade it for currency. It already has worth. Anyways, again, I am talking to my lawyer right now. |
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Wrong. The 511 BTC of data have ZERO value. So, it is NOT greater than 1000 dollars. It is ZERO dollars. It only becomes dollars when it is traded to an exchange. Come on now. You are more intelligent then that.
Stop it B. Stop it.
Meh, I'm pretty sure 'value' is irrelevent before the fact its 'property' (parts of data). Once its property, all the judge is gonna ask is 'whats it worth?'. I've seen plenty of Judge Judy to know when someone steals a TV, even though its not currency, the courts can still estimate a value of what it'd be worth once it was converted to currency. And then you pay that. And I will reply to the judge, they are WORTHLESS, until they are sold at an exchange. Anyhow, I am talking to my lawyer right now. Will report what he says. |
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That is actually not true: read the article I linked. Also, here's the Oregon law on the matter: http://www.leg.state.or.us/ors/164.htmlI'll quote the relevant section (164.015): (2) Commits theft of property lost, mislaid or delivered by mistake as provided in ORS 164.065;
Furthermore, because its value is greater than $1000 (164.055), it counts as a theft in the first degree. Ahh now this is interesting. Seems BenDavis is on the ropes. Now the only question I have if because this is international if things get legally mucky. Bro, the transfer has no monetary value. If I send you 1000000 BTC, they have NO VALUE. Until you sell them. Patrick is going to have a BITCH of a time trying to get any court to prosecute me. I welcome the challenge. He will spend WAY more than 511 worth of BTC at an exchange rate of 8.5 on his lawyer fees lmfaoooooo You really think cops are just going to show up at my door and cuff me, put me in jail? You guys are smoking something bad!!!!!! |
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This guy was allowed to be a customer and he knew d**n well by signing up what social contract he was getting into.
If I wake up in the morning, and I find 511 BTC in my account, how did I steal it? Please explain that. By not taking measures to return it to its rightful owner, and selling it as soon as you "found" it. As per the definition of theft in your state's laws. Once it was transferred to me... I AM THE OWNER NOW. Why is that hard for you to grasp? If a pool sends you BTC for payment, YOU are the owner. Not the pool. You guys are just hating! I love it! Bring the hate! |
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You are WRONG. I am NOT in possession of anyone elses property. Once the Bitcoin transfer was complete, it is MY property now. You ALL know this. That is how the game goes. Stop acting like a bitch because you are jealous it didn't happen to you.
If I send you 500 BTC, it is YOUR property now. NOT mine. That is how BTC works. WE ALL know this.
That is actually not true: read the article I linked. Also, here's the Oregon law on the matter: http://www.leg.state.or.us/ors/164.htmlI'll quote the relevant section (164.015): (2) Commits theft of property lost, mislaid or delivered by mistake as provided in ORS 164.065;
Furthermore, because its value is greater than $1000 (164.055), it counts as a theft in the first degree. Wrong. The 511 BTC of data have ZERO value. So, it is NOT greater than 1000 dollars. It is ZERO dollars. It only becomes dollars when it is traded to an exchange. Come on now. You are more intelligent then that. Stop it B. Stop it. |
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This guy was allowed to be a customer and he knew d**n well by signing up what social contract he was getting into.
If I wake up in the morning, and I find 511 BTC in my account, how did I steal it? Please explain that. |
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That is NOT the case. Patrick and Donald sent email after email threatening BenDavis and his family. His children. His freedom. You make an EPIC mistake like this, and then you threaten someones KIDS about it? That is NOT the way to get what you want back.
This is interesting. DLowDAOG confirms that BenDavis (IRC nick on Freenode) received email from Patrick and Donald, which presumably was sent to his not public email address. However, then why: [04:52] <@BenDavis> But I don't know what you are talking about!
[04:54] <@BenDavis> Patrick Strateman, I have no clue what you are talking about.
[04:54] <@BenDavis> I don't even mine for coins.
[04:55] <@BenDavis> I have no clue what you are talking about!
[04:57] <@BenDavis> Yeah, I do not believe I took anything.
[04:58] <@BenDavis> Can you tell me how I took anything?
Also, it seems BenDavis does mine for coins: http://bitcoinpool.com/index.php?do=userprofile&id=BenDavishttps://i.imgur.com/MjeKP.pngCongrats detective lol stunning work there. |
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Definitely not good faith, and it'll look bad when the law gets involved.
You really seem to think the law is going to get involved? What law lmfao WE LIVE IN DIFFERENT COUNTRIES. |
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You clearly seem to think you're in the right here. You might want to read up on more law before doing something so sketchy, next time. The legal tender point is irrelevant; you are in possession of someone else's property, regardless of whether it's an "official currency" or not, and you demonstrated bad faith by selling it all immediately. Your point about it acquiring value the moment you sold it makes no sense. If it didn't have value before you sold it, nobody would have bought it from you. You might also want to read things like http://www.austinchronicle.com/columns/2005-12-02/315676/. Whether it's an intangible good or not is also irrelevant. You did not _take_ someone's property, but you did not make a reasonable effort to return it to them, and instead posted on facebook (of which there is documentation) about "free money" and started preaching about how the victim was in the wrong. Definitely not good faith, and it'll look bad when the law gets involved. I could accidentally send you my collection of used women's panties (hypothetically  ) and if you kept it, you'd be liable. No, used panties are not legal tender. No, they have no market value. But you still took my stuff, and made no effort to return it to me. Sure, you wouldn't be liable for much, but you would definitely be in the wrong. Over $4000? You should be worried. Edit: Also, what's with posting his picture and name? Who cares if you know who he is? Are you trying to intimidate him by suggesting you know who he is? You are WRONG. I am NOT in possession of anyone elses property. Once the Bitcoin transfer was complete, it is MY property now. You ALL know this. That is how the game goes. Stop acting like a bitch because you are jealous it didn't happen to you. If I send you 500 BTC, it is YOUR property now. NOT mine. That is how BTC works. WE ALL know this. |
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Also, does ANYBODY really want to bring the authorities into this? The last thing anyone should want is bitcoin being mentioned in court documents. Bringing suit or prosecution on anyone for misappropriation of bitcoins only brings scrutiny on the entire system and probably hastening it's demise just like happened to egold and so many other anonymous ecurrencies then everybody loses.
Would it be useful to establish legal precedent? That is NOT the case. Patrick and Donald sent email after email threatening BenDavis and his family. His children. His freedom. You make an EPIC mistake like this, and then you threaten someones KIDS about it? That is NOT the way to get what you want back.
Ah, I see. You should publicize the threats. [05:21] <@Geebus> <phantomcircuit> i see you really like your guns [04:47] <phantomcircuit> if you want to keep them i suggest working with us [05:22] <@Geebus> You threatened him with injury to his person or personal affects. [05:22] <phantomcircuit> Geebus, yes felons are not allowed to have firearms ^^^ I take that as a threat. And so would a court. But again, we live in different countries. There is nothing legal that can be done lmfaooo |
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Are you serious? He sold them before the conversation started, so his intentions were very clear. You think a nice tone would have changed this? Good to know how to approach scammers for the future though: "Could you please give me my money back?  " Yeah, it could have changed things. Dude upon waking up and finding 500+ bitcoins may have gotton excited and let his greed get the best of him. As easy as it was to sell, its just as easy to buy back. But we'll never know because both parties wanted to be a tough guy. How to approach someone who has you by the balls? Hint: Not forcefully. I imagine (fantasize?) phantomcircuit had contacted him privately initially and probably in a polite manner, and it seems that BenDavis had ignored the private contact and thus led to contacting him publicly in IRC. That is NOT the case. Patrick and Donald sent email after email threatening BenDavis and his family. His children. His freedom. You make an EPIC mistake like this, and then you threaten someones KIDS about it? That is NOT the way to get what you want back. You see this little guy? He got away with it because he's fucking Indiana Jones.
You however are just some random guy who thinks he got lucky.
You didn't get lucky you just bought yourself a one way trip to jail, we however don't much give a fuck about whether you go to jail or not.
We just want our money back.
Sent it back by noon and we wont need to file a police report and waste some of our time AND A LOT OF YOUR TIME. and... Donald Norman Donald@bitcoinconsultancy.com to me show details Sep 1 (2 days ago) Hello BenDavis, We are about to contact the Oregon police department to file a report of theft. After which we will send this report of theft to all the leading bitcoin businesses, especially exchanges (MtGox, TradeHill, Bitcoin7, et cetera). We have been in contact with exchanges and reported the addresses which the coins were sent to. This is a criminal and serious matter. The previous police report I filed led to an individual being arrested and put on trial. I am not sure if he received the 9 months in jail as I did not follow up but police detectives told me the evidence was damning and that it was unlikely he would be let go. The evidence we have already amassed against you is very strong. We know who you are. If you do not want us to file a police report you must cooperate right away. I will be filing the police report in one hour's time. Once the police report is filed, there is no way that I know to reverse it. Ideally, I would not want to send another person to jail so please contact me. Sincerely, Donald Norman The fuck outta here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 You cannot do anything about it. You fucked up. I am sure BenDavis welcomes you to try and press any kind of charges. Being you publicly admitted the code is the problem. Being that BTC is not legal tender. Being that you live in another country lmfao |
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Important facts you guys are forgetting with all these TERRIBLE analogies and discussions. 1. BTC is NOT RECOGNIZED as LEGAL TENDER in ANY COUNTRY in the ENTIRE WORLD, galaxy, even Mars. 2. BTC were NOT stolen. They were SENT to a wallet ID WITHOUT the recipient asking for them. 3. NOTHING ILLEGAL HAPPENED. An IRREVERSABLE TRANSACTION happened with a transfer of DATA that holds NO VALUE from wallet to wallet. I can have 1 million BTC in my wallet and they are NOT WORTH ANYTHING until I TRADE THEM to an exchange, which THEN recognizes the data as currency. Still does not make it LEGAL currency. 4. The BTC did not gain it's value until they were SOLD. AFTER THE TRANSFER. The transfer from Patrick to BenDavis of 511 BTC indeed, held no value. Value comes when you take the data to an exchange. Hopefully NOT intersango. They obviously do not know how to manage an Exchange. 5. Sender lives in Europe. Recipient lives in USA. There is NOTHING legal sender can do to recipient. Not to mention that any court in either country would recognize this as anything legal or illegal for that matter. They will laugh in your face. "Let me get this straight, you sent someone 'data' called bitcoins without them asking, and you want them back?" LMFAO If you wake up, and there are 511 BTC in your wallet, THEY ARE YOURS. It is a different story if a Bank sends you funds to your LEGALLY RECOGNIZED BANK ACCOUNT, then yes. You have a LEGAL obligation to send them back. This however, is 'data' that you can trade for currency, yes. But the 'data' itself is NOT RECOGNIZED AS LEGAL CURRENCY IN --ANY-- governing body in the entire WORLD!!! This is not a 'oops I dropped 50 bucks on the ground' type case. Because the 50 bucks is LEGAL TENDER and controlled by a Central Bank and governed! BTC is NOT!!! This is not a 'oops I built a fountain on your yard' type case. Because the fountain is REAL! You can see it. You can touch it. You cannot physically touch or see BTC data. This is for sure 'oops my code sucks ass, I am not as smart as I think I am, I fucked up and sent data to another program that collects data. I do not own this data either, it is data sent to me from OTHER people that use my exchange. And if I do not get this data back, I will look like an idiot for losing my customers data - so I will make threats, physical, mental and legal threats on this persons family, child in hopes it will scare them in to sending the data back, but fully knowing that there is nothing I can do legally' /rant You are fucked Patrick. You fucked up. You blew it. There is nothing you can do about it. I would feel like a huge douche too if I was you and try to do anything I could to get it back.  |
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