What are you trying to achieve?
Let me ask the same question to you. What are you trying to achieve exactly? What are your arguments about if you don't hate Bitcoin or think it is useless? Let's say you don't hate Bitcoin but you just think it is something not worth giving this much hype or importance or it is something completely useless, in either way, you are not going to gain anything by sitting in the forum created by the creator of Bitcoin and try and convince people about what your beliefs are because that is not going to work. So it's dumb of you to be trying to achieve that here. You can go preach what you are trying to prove here on some busy street and you might find a few people standing with you among the crowd but that is barely going to happen here, my friend. Besides, if you think Bitcoin is useless or whatever, do you believe that companies and firms such as MicroStrategy, Grayscale, Blackrock, Microsoft, Tesla, and many more along with their owners and management are a bunch of fools being interested in something useless? In a discussion, the goal to achieve is to have valid arguments for the thesis you defend. What you people do is trolling. You engage in ad hominems, non sequiturs, red herrings, and idiotic accusation about hate. In the same time you completely ignore the thesis at hand. Regarding the last. I didn't say that Bitcoin is useless, but dumb. Bitcoin is used as a get-rich-quick scheme, some kind of unit-based pyramid schemes. But as a concept it is dumb. It spends energy on managing empty units. If you wanna buy an empty box for $70K because you think someone else will buy it for $100K that's the scheme. But if someone spends enormous amounts of energy to run such a scheme that's dumb. Of course, calling that empty box a valuable asset, comparing it to gold, or suggesting it is the future of postal service is dumb as well. Expect receiving a lot of hate and call you for something you don't like since they don't like what they see since it sounds like you hate bitcoin then came here just to spread hate. So try to understand where they came from and open yourself for criticism since you brought up some discussion about bitcoin so expect some words that you don't like to here will come up. But I don't really think that bitcoin is easy rich scheme since there are so many struggles to face before we can earn this. Maybe there are some people spread some wrong information about it that's why those newbies think about bitcoin is get-rich-quick-scheme but in reality there's nothing like that exist in real world. And again. 'Spreading hate', another idiotic accusation. Spreading hate means communication of animosity or disparagement of an individual or a group on account of a group characteristic such as race, color, national origin, sex, disability, religion, or sexual orientation. Saying that spending enormous amounts of energy on managing empty units is dumb is not spreading hate. It's factually describing a behavior. |
|
|
|
What are you trying to achieve?
Let me ask the same question to you. What are you trying to achieve exactly? What are your arguments about if you don't hate Bitcoin or think it is useless? Let's say you don't hate Bitcoin but you just think it is something not worth giving this much hype or importance or it is something completely useless, in either way, you are not going to gain anything by sitting in the forum created by the creator of Bitcoin and try and convince people about what your beliefs are because that is not going to work. So it's dumb of you to be trying to achieve that here. You can go preach what you are trying to prove here on some busy street and you might find a few people standing with you among the crowd but that is barely going to happen here, my friend. Besides, if you think Bitcoin is useless or whatever, do you believe that companies and firms such as MicroStrategy, Grayscale, Blackrock, Microsoft, Tesla, and many more along with their owners and management are a bunch of fools being interested in something useless? In a discussion, the goal to achieve is to have valid arguments for the thesis you defend. What you people do is trolling. You engage in ad hominems, non sequiturs, red herrings, and idiotic accusation about hate. In the same time you completely ignore the thesis at hand. Regarding the last. I didn't say that Bitcoin is useless, but dumb. Bitcoin is used as a get-rich-quick scheme, some kind of unit-based pyramid scheme. But as a concept it is dumb. It spends energy on managing empty units. If you wanna buy an empty box for $70K because you think someone else will buy it for $100K that's the scheme. But if someone spends enormous amounts of energy to run such a scheme that's dumb. Of course, calling that empty box a valuable asset, comparing it to gold, or suggesting it is the future of postal services is dumb as well. |
|
|
|
If you think Bitcoin is dumb then why you're present on this forum? If you don't like the idea of Bitcoin and find it useless then I believe someone like you should not be part of the forum that's a place for Bitcoin community. You need some research I believe, no I think you may need some treatment so you can understand Bitcoin properly.
Probably to earn the anger and violent reactions of the people that are in this forum, that's what most trolls do, they see something that a lot of people enjoy and then they try their best to spoil the fun by making fun of the thing that everyone's enjoying it by crafting some elaborate bullshit It is not everybody that likes Bitcoin, there even people who hate Bitcoin outside the forum and you can no hold back the opinion of those people towards Bitcoin, the OP have just drop his own opinion which is an opinion that is as dumb as his topic, I can't understand what he is explaining on the other comments he has written on this topic. Every of the reasons drop is not even sensible enough to justify the title. Why do you people always repeat that idiotic "you hate Bitcoin" accusation? What are you trying to achieve? Do I hate envelopes and boxes if I say that a postal service that transfers them empty is dumb, nonsensical or whatever? Really, what's the catch with that "hate" accusation? |
|
|
|
You really made a topic just to say that thing about bitcoin. Since you said that, you shouldn't be here on this forum if that's how you feel about Bitcoin. Because most communities on this platform are Bitcoin believers.
So does that mean all Bitcoin investors are dumb investors if that's the case for you, OP? Is that right? although I still understand you somehow because that's your opinion.
Majority of Bitcoin investors don't have a clue what Bitcoin is, that is, how dumb the whole thing is. They saw the rising price and just want to jump on the bandwagon. Majority of Bitcoin miners don't care if Bitcoin is dumb. They see that they can sell the units to the greater fools so they spend energy. When the pool of greater fools dries up then people will realize how stupid it was to follow the Nakamoto protocol. I don't think they are that many because that is risky and many of us don't want to lose our hard-earned money. And just because a few are dumb, it does not mean that the whole are also like that. There is nothing wrong with investing when the price is rising. Just take a look at those who do a DCA and once they are in, I'm sure that they will still take time to do a research about it while waiting for good things to happen and this makes them know what to expect and they will now know what to do in case those events occur. BTC itself is not dumb but it's genius because of how it works and what its properties. @bettercrypto BTC haters are here because they want to annoy us more. There's nothing genius in managing empty envelopes, boxes or units. It is dumb. And spending huge amounts of energy on such managing is extremely dumb. |
|
|
|
It's pretty evident that you are a troll who gets off on rubbing people the wrong way thanks to your trust ratings which say everything about you op. I find it cute that you are trying so hard to convince forum members that Bitcoin sucks.
You should rename this thread as 'Why am I dumb?' instead op since it's a more accurate representation of what you are trying to convey here.
No, a troll is someone who completely ignores the topic at hand and just talks about the person who created the topic. |
|
|
|
Even smart people can have dumb ideas. Satoshi Nakamoto proposed a dumb idea. People feel for it because they saw it as a get-rich-quick scheme. Sure, you hava a distributed database. But empty units that are stored in it are not coins, money, currency or an asset. Proposing something like that was the dumbest thing ever.
Well... as long as it works, right? What intrigues me, though, is if you think Bitcoin is dumb, why are you still here? You've been doing this for quite some time now – how long has it been? So by your argument, you are at least as dumb as some of us here. Maybe even more, because some of us have actually made some profit investing in Bitcoin over the years. Have you?  I like to debunk popular myths. It's my hobby. Most of the people that I know don't care about Bitcoin nor they want to discuss it. Only in places like this it make sense to post critically or otherwise about it. So... |
|
|
|
You really made a topic just to say that thing about bitcoin. Since you said that, you shouldn't be here on this forum if that's how you feel about Bitcoin. Because most communities on this platform are Bitcoin believers.
So does that mean all Bitcoin investors are dumb investors if that's the case for you, OP? Is that right? although I still understand you somehow because that's your opinion.
Majority of Bitcoin investors don't have a clue what Bitcoin is, that is, how dumb the whole thing is. They saw the rising price and just want to jump on the bandwagon. Majority of Bitcoin miners don't care if Bitcoin is dumb. They see that they can sell the units to the greater fools so they spend energy. When the pool of greater fools dries up then people will realize how stupid it was to follow the Nakamoto protocol. So then it's some of the Bitcoin enthusiasts who are dumb and not Bitcoin. You know people have the habit of jumping into things due to hypes and FOMO. Without really understanding how it works they jump on the moving train with high hopes of profitability, and these are the same people who would turn around to call bitcoin dumb and scam because the market failed to go the way they imagined it. Even smart people can have dumb ideas. Satoshi Nakamoto proposed a dumb idea. People feel for it because they saw it as a get-rich-quick scheme. Sure, you hava a distributed database. But empty units that are stored in it are not coins, money, currency or an asset. Proposing something like that was the dumbest thing ever. |
|
|
|
You really made a topic just to say that thing about bitcoin. Since you said that, you shouldn't be here on this forum if that's how you feel about Bitcoin. Because most communities on this platform are Bitcoin believers.
So does that mean all Bitcoin investors are dumb investors if that's the case for you, OP? Is that right? although I still understand you somehow because that's your opinion.
Majority of Bitcoin investors don't have a clue what Bitcoin is, that is, how dumb the whole thing is. They saw the rising price and just want to jump on the bandwagon. Majority of Bitcoin miners don't care if Bitcoin is dumb. They see that they can sell the units to the greater fools so they spend energy. When the pool of greater fools dries up then people will realize how stupid it was to follow the Nakamoto protocol. |
|
|
|
value is where there has been a cost in somethings creation and someone desires whats been created
creating a mortgage agreement costs nothing.
money creation has no value.
money creation gains value later on once in circulation/in the system
bitcoin however has a cost in its creation.. the mining cost. so has a value upfront at its creation.
yes the value is less than the market rate but thats how value works wholesale value is always under retail price
the difference between wholesale and retail is the speculation based on demand and supply
learn some economics before you disappear for a year and come back with a new name. and lets hope next time you come back with new arguments instead of repeating the same flat and debunked crap you have done previously and currently
Even if the theory that value comes from the costs of production were true, Bitcoin has no cost of production. BTC units are produced by the rules of the protocol, out of thin air. What has costs is finding a number that solves a hash combination. The theory is of course not true. I can set this protocol, that is, a joke: " find a plate with my name and surname that I have hidden somewhere in the New York. As a reward for finding it you will get that plate".
You spend years and a lot of money to find it, you finally find it and then conclude that this plate is very very valuable because of your search. People would say that you're dumb because you spend so much resources on finding something worthless, because you took my joke seriously. So, the fact that energy is spent on a task specified by the Nakamoto protocol does not mean that the reward for solving it is valuable. It just means that people behave stupidly because they follow the protocol. |
|
|
|
you talk about turds knowing your body can create your turd from your body at low cost after the utility is finished and its time to reject the waste product and relieve it/release it from the body. to then dispose of it and forget about it. which makes turds useless and of no value
but you dont realise specific units locked within a body and move/transfer within a system and produced in that system to do a function is not a turd it is instead a nutrient the body uses. it doesnt/cant leave the system and is useful within the system.. so within that system you need to understand the cost of that nutrient production, for the need, use, desire and intent of the nutrient has a cost
not the waste junk that gets pushed out and rejected and relieved from the system to decay/waste away
 ?? Given that units in the Bitcoin system are not created as debt, nobody needs them, and thus, they contain no value. They are empty. Often, people say that Bitcoin is simple and thus better than a complex banking system that manages fiat currencies. But of course Bitcoin is simple given that it manages empty units. Fiat currency units represent debt and managing debt is complex. It includes credit assessments, collaterals, foreclosures, repossessions, etc. And this requires resources, both material and human. With Bitcoin, a guy just wrote a protocol that tells people: "You have 10 BTC units", "you have 0.5 BTC units", "you have 50 BTC units", etc. But units of what? Units of a company ownership? No. Units of something tangible like a precious metal? No. Units of something intangible like patents, copyrights or software licences? No. In the Bitcoin system people have units of nothing. Units that are empty. That is why it is so simple. Managing empty units is simple. Just like it would be managing empty envelopes and packages in our hypothetical crypto-post. Spending huge amounts of energy on such a system is extremely dumb. Paying huge amounts of money just to hold empty units of that system is extremely dumb as well. That's why Bitcoin is the dumbest thing ever invented. So you think that debt creates value? Congratulations, you have created an entirely new theory of economy and finance. So fiat money represent debt and that's why they have value? What kind of debt? Do you think that you could go to a commercial bank(or central bank) and exchange your precious fiat money for gold? Good luck with this. Fiat money aren't backed by anything. Bitcoin/crypto isn't backed by specific assets as well, but the difference is that Bitcoin is deflationary by design and fiat money are designed to lose value(because of the money printing, that is being done by the central banks). Nobody is forcing you to use BTC, but your government is forcing you to use fiat money as the legal tender. I don't think that debt creates value. This is factually so. If you have for instance $500K while you friend has a $500K dollar loan with a mortgage on his house you have something that he needs to get rid of the mortgage. $500K is worth the same as his house. If an item is needed by people it has value. Just like food. People need food and that is why food is valuable. The fact that fiat currency units are created as debt means debtors will always need them. On the other hand, nobody needs units in the Bitcoin system. People buy those just for speculative reasons, because they believe in the greater fool theory. |
|
|
|
You're really a top notch swindler. You use words to try to make your worthless BTC units look valuable. But doing this here is tragicomical. It's like trying to convince people that turd is more valuable than food.
it costs $0.08 to print a $100 bank note it costs over $25k* of hardware and electric to create 1btc *$25k Slavic countries low electric -> $150k pacific islands high electric so if people see the market rate of ~$58k some see it as great discount to buy. some see it as good profit to sell. but overall there is real cost underlying bitcoin. thats not at a 0.08% rate, but more so depending on location 45%-280% also james under your other alt account in previous years, you said the same stupid stuff of not understanding fiat economics and bitcoin economics.. so why make a new name just to say the same crap. atleast learn from your mistakes and come up with new mistakes, .. or a new idea/theory. why repeat the same crap again The cost of producing BTC unit is zero. The cost of producing USD unit iz zero. It's just ading numbers to a database, or a paper medium in case of banknotes. $25K is the cost of a plain brute force random trial and error of finding a number that solves a hash combination. It has nothing to do with the value or the units. Your logic is like setting up a protocol that says: "whoever manages to travel the world in 5 days will get a turd. Then someone spends $25K to complete the challenge, and you conclude: "the turd is worth $25K". Such a way of thinking is as dumb as Bitcoin. |
|
|
|
JamesNZ thinks banks give out peoples money as debt to others.. that alone shows how little he knows about economics of FIAT.. let alone bitcoin
and fiat has been around alot longer than bitcoin so he has had plenty of opportunity to learn about how fiat works, yet he has failed
FIAT mortgages are not about giving your money to mortgage applicants, thus mortgage payers do not owe you.
what actually happens is banks total up the bank account customer holdings and produce a number.. this number is REPLICATED at a ratio to become a new allowance that banks can make(create new money) to offer out as credit/mortgages with stipulations that the receiver has to pay back TO THE BANK over time +interest to refill the used BANKS credit allowance amount OF THE BANKS CREDIT
thus its not actually your money they use in mortgages and mortgage payers are not repaying you...
as for bitcoin. because it is codified as a rule to produce a set amount over a certain time, which depreciates, it makes bitcoin a strong value unit which has real creation cost which people base underlying value of, and then apply speculated extra amount based on desires, utility and demand which the creates then market rate. the market rate is a variable amount that is more volatile than the underlying value. but bitcoin has a high underlying value compared to the creation cost of fiat. bitcoin has a deflationary production rate, fiat has a inflationary production rate.
new bitcoin units (sats) production rate depreciate in amount over time but the cost of production(mining) increases. there is also an ultimate limit to how many will ultimately be produced, which adds an extra layer to the value, speculation decisions that become the market rate of those wanting bitcoin
bitcoin does have real world utility, which adds an extra layer to the value, speculation decisions that become the market rate of those wanting bitcoin
making bitcoin (said again for emphasis) a stronger value unit compared to fiat
You're really a top notch swindler. You use words to try to make your worthless BTC units look valuable. But doing this here is tragicomical. It's like trying to convince people that turd is more valuable than food. |
|
|
|
On the other hand, if you traded dollars for Bitcoin you are the slave because you need other people to invest and buy your Bitcoin otherwise you cannot get your dollars back.
You truly need some type of treatment because whatever you're saying is totally inaccurate. If you trade dollars for Bitcoin then you can trade that Bitcoin back to dollars without waiting for someone else to buy it from you. You should learn about crypto-currency exchanges, on those exchanges there are 100's of thousands of orders that get filled within seconds. If you really want to trade your dollars for Bitcoin and then you Bitcoin for dollars, you can do that without any issues. If another greater fool, another speculator decides not to buy your Bitcoin, game over. You cannot get yor investment back. Just like in Ponzi schemes. You are the slave of people's will to join the scheme. They must voluntary decide to buy your BTC units. With dollars however I am the master. Via collaterals, the banking system forces debtors to trade labour, services or goods with me. They cannot just voluntary decide not to trade them. This would lead to foreclosures. In foreclosure auctions I am the master again. The banks are liable to sell foreclosured property to dollar holders in order to liquidate the unpaid loans. They issued dollars, and thus they must take them back. It's their liability clearly recorded in their accounting books. So, with dollars I am the master and the banks work for me. They ensure that I get labour, goods or services for my dollars. With Bitcoin you're the slave. Nobody works for you and ensures that you get something valuable in exchange for the system units. The system just stores the units and doesn't care about you. It's crazy how vehemently you and other slaves try to defend such a system. Is this some kind of a Stockholm syndrome? |
|
|
|
Bitcoin is the dumbest thing ever invented.
If you think Bitcoin is dumb then why you're present on this forum? If you don't like the idea of Bitcoin and find it useless then I believe someone like you should not be part of the forum that's a place for Bitcoin community. You need some research I believe, no I think you may need some treatment so you can understand Bitcoin properly. For me I think he is just a troll that needs people to actually notice him just like the other fella who always shares post about how he is the original Satoshi Nakamoto and the owner of the forum. Sometimes when I see post like this, ignoring them is probably the best thing but with that being said how can someone even think of uttering such nonsense that Bitcoin is the dumbest thing created, well it's simple if you like being a financial slave to the system then you are free to go but other who don't know the importance of BTC. How is investing in something that people need being a slave, but investing in something no one needs being free? If I invest in dollars I hold something that masses of people need for paying off debt owed to banks. I am the master, not the slave. On the other hand, if you traded dollars for Bitcoin you are the slave because you need other people to invest and buy your Bitcoin otherwise you cannot get your dollars back. It's hilarious how you Bitcoin evangelists think that you're the masters while in reality you're the slaves. |
|
|
|
Bitcoin is the dumbest thing ever invented.
If you think Bitcoin is dumb then why you're present on this forum? If you don't like the idea of Bitcoin and find it useless then I believe someone like you should not be part of the forum that's a place for Bitcoin community. You need some research I believe, no I think you may need some treatment so you can understand Bitcoin properly. If bitcoin is dumb then fait is even more dumber, now let's do a comparison real quick, bitcoin has a fixed number of coins that can ever be creates and supply making it to be immune to inflation or value depreciation over time, but your local fait which I believe you so love is been printed everyday and inflates every day, is that the freedom you want, where you work Labour woths less every fucking day that the bank pri to money. You know nothing bro if not, you wouldn't be saying this and this is just the one comparison I feel you can comprehend. Bitcoin hater🤬 Show me the coins. You cannot. A coin is a tangible disc. Bit-coins on the other hand are empty units created by a simple protocol. Regardless if you have 21 or 21 million of empty units they are all equally useless. It's just a number defined by a protocol and not a valuable resource needed by people. |
|
|
|
There's no contest. Debt-based money is just a vicious scheme to generate income for banks. There's no actual need for it. It's just something people have been indoctrinated to accept.
Debt based money means that millions upon millions of people need that money to satisfy the debt. They need it like they need land, houses, cars... because that property is what they will lose if they default on the debt. Simply put, being backed by debt is what gives money value. If you hold that money you have something people will always need. Bitcoin,on the other hand, is backed by nothing. Nobody needs it. It's just empty units that people buy in the hope of dumping them on someone else for a better price. It's a simple unit-based pyramid scheme. The "need" is artificial. The "need" is for banks to turn a profit. Ordinary people don't "need" any of that. A pyramid scheme is one where money flows from the bottom to the top. And that's invariably what happens in debt-based economics. Money flows up to the banks for absolutely no sane reason. Those parasitic bankster leeches feed on the masses. You're clearly okay with artificial theft, so feel free to continue advocating for that. You aren't going to convince many people here, though. As you've likely noticed with your... how many accounts is it now? I've honestly lost track. Looking forward to your next empty facade where you spout the same tired nonsense under another alias. The need is real. If people default on debt that they owe to the banking system their property gets foreclosed. Thus, the units in the banking system that are called fiat money are valuable the same as land, houses, cars, and other tangible property. On the other hand, nobody needs units printed by the protocol of that unknown guy called Nakamoto. People buy those only to sell them in the future for a better price because they believe in the greater fool theory. Practically Bitcoin is a unit-based pyramid scheme. Whoever holds the units can benefit only from contributions of new investors. In a nutshell, all pyramid schemes are dumb. But Bitcoin is the dumbest of them all because enormous amounts of energy are wasted on running it. |
|
|
|
Debt-based money versus Bitcoin:  There's no contest. Debt-based money is just a vicious scheme to generate income for banks. There's no actual need for it. It's just something people have been indoctrinated to accept. Debt based money means that millions upon millions of people need that money to satisfy the debt. They need it like they need land, houses, cars... because that property is what they will lose if they default on the debt. Simply put, being backed by debt is what gives money value. If you hold that money you have something people will always need. Bitcoin,on the other hand, is backed by nothing. Nobody needs it. It's just empty units that people buy in the hope of dumping them on someone else for a better price. It's a simple unit-based pyramid scheme. |
|
|
|
This very invention you think is dumb has saved lots of people over the years. Since its creation, it has stood the test of time and it is still standing. This explains why the value keeps appreciating as time goes by, those who appreciate the value of Bitcoin are already making a fortune out of it. Our ideologies cannot be thesame, You call it dumb, I call it a life's saving invention. There is no point recruiting more people to view Bitcoin the way you view it, if just like you they sense something fishy about Bitcoin, they can always avoid it. Bitcoin is open to everyone who sees it for what it is, your criticism may be right to you but I know what I believe about Bitcoin.
Hey! Bitcoin just witnessed it's 4th halving. We are anticipating lots of good news this season. You can stick around to enjoy these benefits or take the exit door.
How can transferring empty units, packages or envelopes from one person to another save anyone? I know that none of you believe in that nonsense that you preach here. All of you just wanna dump that empty BTC units on someone else for a price better than you paid for them. End of story. Just be honest and admit the truth. Portraying Bitcoin as some kind of deity that will save humanity makes you people look like a cult. |
|
|
|
<cut>
No, this is stupidity. A simple pyramid scheme. The same is true for those empty BTC units that you people send to each other.
Hahaha! Sure, buddy, keep telling yourself that. Bitcoin must cause you heartburn every year, like clockwork. This was also you. No? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2239552.0Almost seven years have passed since then. And Bitcoin is still alive and kicking! So, good luck with your Bitcoin doomsday predictions. If you wanna have a rational discussion on a forum you have to actually address the arguments offered. It's pretty dumb expressing your personal frustrations with other forum users and ignoring the topic at hand. |
|
|
|
The system doesn't manage units in a company like the ones that deal with stocks or units in debt like the ones that deal with bonds and fiat currencies.
I think you're not sure about the concept of Bitcoin, it's basically a decentralized system that's not owned or controlled by a company. It even doesn't work like traditional banks where debt is the main runner of the fiat system. It's simply a p2p payment solution where community decides its value. If community keeps holding Bitcoin that they purchase then its value will connote to grow no matter if it gets 1 billion people who criticize it. Bitcoin doesn't have to manage units like a company as it allows the community to do that. You don't get it, do you? Transferring empty units is not a solution to anything. What problem of a postal service would be solved if people would send empty envelopes to each other? Someone sends you 5 empty envelopes. You pay them $100,000. Then you keep them for a month. After that you send them to someone else. The recipient pays $200,000 for them, keeps them for a few days and then sends them to someone else for a certain amount. And so they go round and round. Empty envelopes go from person to person. Is this a solution to something? No, this is stupidity. A simple pyramid scheme. The same is true for those empty BTC units that you people send to each other. |
|
|
|
|
Show Posts
