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1021  Economy / Securities / Re: GLBSE Dividend Returns - updated weekly on: April 16, 2012, 05:20:32 PM
The problem could be that to some degree we're comparing apples with oranges, a company retaining 90% of earnings and paying 1 BTC in dividends would appear significantly worse from an ROI perspective than another retaining but 10% of earnings and paying 2 BTC in dividends. However, on a fair-basis comparison the first made 10 BTC and the second ~2.22.
Still the first returned 1 BTC and the other 2 BTC - this IS significatly worse from a ROI perspective! It's called "ROI" after all, not "company growth factor". If people want to invest in companies that make great profits but keep them, that's possible too. This chart is called "GLBSE Dividend Returns" though, so a (potentially made up) earnings figure that cannot be checked anywhere and that won't be returned toshare holders is something that is not useful in this context imho.

It is pretty simple to search the forums to see the what percentage the company is holding and how much is being paid to shareholders.  That is why I put that disclaimer there so that people would know this.  I don't recommend anyone to just look at this chart and purchase or sell assets based on the information.  This table is a good starting point to investigate and see why there are differences between the assets.  I have read through each listing enough I have most of them memorized.  Also they can change if there is a motion and I don't want to miss a motion and have false information.

As for companies that retain earnings for future, that takes a lot of trust in a company to allow them to hold a percentage of the earnings.  There are some companies that don't really report their earnings or expenses publicly.  There are some that report everything.  Also some of the assets are bonds and some are shares.

The apples to apples comparison is how much money is given back to asset holders.  Unless the company has some way to increase asset holder value, only then should they retain earnings.  I would suggest that most of the price appreciation of assets on GLBSE is due to a continuous dividend payout to asset holders and not some intrinsic value of the assets.  Until there is better financial disclosure and accounting from these companies I would say 100% dividend returns is the way to go.
1022  Economy / Securities / Re: GLBSE Dividend Returns - updated weekly on: April 16, 2012, 04:33:35 AM
Great idea, stochastic.

About the week coupon returns: if you add a column for a four week moving average of the weekly returns, a better comparison can be drawn between the different bonds - as long as each bond pays out at least once per difficulty period.

Nice idea.  Next week will be the first full 4 weeks for some of them so I will try to add what you suggested.
1023  Other / Politics & Society / Re: George Zimmerman arrested for 2nd degree murder for killing Trayvon Martin on: April 15, 2012, 10:19:33 PM
...snip...

I do understand that, I guess what I really meant had to do with how this is getting national if not international coverage, when it is just a shooting. It happens all the time near here, and you barely hear about it in the news.

Its rare for an unarmed 17 year old to be killed and the shooter not get arrested.  Even though Trayvon had ID on him, he was tagged as a John Doe and his family found him 3 days later.  The shooter may well have been acting in self-defence but the police have no excuse for the way the case was handled.

Link to source because I read they called the police the next morning when he did not return home and he was identified that day his father called.

Also, is it considered stalking and chasing if someone calls 911?  Usually the first person that calls the police is the victim.  Another reason to never trust the police.
1024  Economy / Securities / Re: GLBSE Dividend Returns - updated weekly on: April 15, 2012, 10:03:25 PM
don't suppose you could add IPO price, IPO-ROI, and cumulative dividend payments (either in total or since GLBSE 2.0 started, because presumably there may not be that information for some assets.)

This might give more informed opinion on whether to join particular assets early at preIPO/IPO, or wait a few weeks until it settles.

marked

Does anyone know the IPO prices of some for some of these assets?
1025  Economy / Securities / Re: GLBSE Dividend Returns - updated weekly on: April 15, 2012, 03:10:45 PM
Hi stochastic,

I will be paying dividends on the 16th. I would appreciate being added to your weekly update. Please PM me if you need anything from me.

Best,
gigavps

Yes I will add it.  I will keep an eye for it.  I go through the assets each week to look for which have paid.
1026  Economy / Securities / Re: [GLBSE] MergedMining BTC/NMC Mining Company on: April 15, 2012, 02:38:38 PM
Have you verified your GLBSE account yet? 

You can check our verification status at any time using the GLBSE.  I figured someone with 4 listings on there would know that...

Nope. I only have 3. I guess the better question is why have you not verified yet? You seem to want operations you are not involved in to upload videos and the like:)

I just assumed you had verified and uploaded videos. Why so secret if you want others to not be secret? What do you need to hide? lol.

You must be slow, according to GLBSE's listing he has verified.

It says only an email address has been verified.
1027  Other / Off-topic / Re: US kills Osama bin Laden at cost of > $400 billion on: April 15, 2012, 02:20:21 PM
I wonder if bin Laden shorted airline stocks before the WTC attacks.  Talk about market manipulation!
1028  Other / Politics & Society / Re: George Zimmerman arrested for 2nd degree murder for killing Trayvon Martin on: April 15, 2012, 02:07:50 PM
It all comes down the the screams for help.  If it was Trayvon, I am baffled as to how Zimmerman isn't facing a murder 1 charge.  If it was Zimmerman, why is he facing any charge at all?

Zimmerman needed to be in danger of immediate death or great harm to be justified to shoot a person. He could just point gun and say don't move.


This is crazy, "point a gun and say don't move".  A gun is used to stop a behavior not to threaten a person.  You obviously have never used a gun before and only seen their use on TV.  When police pull a gun on someone they do 2 things.  1. shoot for the center mass (the chest) or 2. wait for the man in stripes to give the signal to shoot for center mass.  They aim for the chest because the shooter is more likely to hit the target.

Zimmerman had his concealed handgun license so he went through the training.  Everyone going through those classes know that if you actually do use your self defense weapon then you will need to hire a lawyer.  The only reason I see that Zimmerman is actually in jail is because of the mob pressure and the special prosecutor charging him anyway knowing the state will lose the case or because Zimmerman said something to the police before his lawyer arrived to shut him up.

At least this case will give an interesting precedent to the case law on "stand-your-ground" laws in Florida.  I am sure glad to be living in Texas.  We already had to deal with this anti-self defense crap where people think the individual does not have a right to defend their own lives.  We also had a case where someone was defending themselves but a stray bullet killed a bystander.  The shooter is spending the rest of their life in prison.  Florida is the birthplace of the concealed handgun movement and I hope this case does not take that away.

In the link see the New Black Panther mob be chased out by the pro-self defense mob.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJ5WWzJ4VR8&feature=related
(See 1:38 for bouncing fun)

Better Video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEZ9s0ZBAu8&feature=related

Zimmerman and Horn, who is referred to in the video, did stupid things that got media and legal attention toward them.  They should have just minded their own business.  Protect yourself and your family but for other people let them take care of themselves.

I am seeing much hypocracy from some taking Martins side in this case.

Zimmerman has absolutely no convictions for those listed arrests that I know of.

This is pretty much split down conservative and liberal lines. Most liberals are not the cops best friends or advocates, so unless we can all admit that cops make bad decisions and mistakes and that those records of prior arrest (without convictions) mean absolutely nothing (or very little), then we will have to admit that cops dont make mistakes and all of Zimmermans arrests are the same as if he were convicted. I dont really see where you can have it both ways.

I don't believe he has those convictions either, if he had then the FBI criminal report would have pulled those records when his fingerprints were sent in for his Florida concealed handgun license.
1029  Economy / Securities / Re: GLBSE Dividend Returns - updated weekly on: April 15, 2012, 01:20:12 PM
History

Monthly Dividend Returns
April 2012

Weekly Dividend Returns
2012-05-05 to 2012-05-11
2012-05-12 to 2012-05-18
2012-05-19 to 2012-05-25
2012-05-26 to 2012-06-01
1030  Economy / Securities / Re: GLBSE Dividend Returns - updated weekly on: April 14, 2012, 09:29:19 PM
don't suppose you could add IPO price, IPO-ROI, and cumulative dividend payments (either in total or since GLBSE 2.0 started, because presumably there may not be that information for some assets.)

This might give more informed opinion on whether to join particular assets early at preIPO/IPO, or wait a few weeks until it settles.

marked

I could add in cumulative dividends in to date, most places have recorded their dividend payments somewhere.  I am also going to add in a column for MHash/BTC for the pure mining companies.  I think showing that information would be more fair to the mining contracts that may not pay out +95% of the earnings to dividends.

1031  Economy / Securities / Re: GLBSE Dividend Returns - updated weekly on: April 14, 2012, 07:23:30 PM
Thanks this is a great list to keep an eye on, especially with the couple of new launches this week, offerering 3% / week and 28% / month.

Phil

Thanks.  I plan on adding more information to the table next week so there are more things to compare against GLBSE listed contracts.
1032  Economy / Securities / Re: [GLBSE] Introducing: Bitcoin Syndicate, a new mining op trading publicly! on: April 14, 2012, 06:35:39 PM
I was searching through the posts but could not find the answer.  Are dividends released weekly?
1033  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Trickle-down taxation? on: April 13, 2012, 08:30:16 AM
Correct.  Even where the goods are being traded legitimately, the price on the black market is pushed down by the lack of legal protection.
Down?! So drugs would cost more if they were legal?

No, it's the reverse. Prices are pushed up by the need to provide your own protection and to compensate for the increased risks associated with a black or gray market. (Can't enforce contracts in court, might get arrested, etectera.)

I think maybe they mean blackmarket goods are cheaper like if you buy an HDTV in the parking lot of a store.  The reason they are cheap is because there is an understanding that the item is stolen and the only cost the seller had in obtaining the HDTV is by stealing it.

Buying cigarettes illegally are usually cheaper because the seller is not paying the taxes on the smokes.

For drugs it would likely be less expensive unless they were taxed.  Except for cannabis, LSD, and psilocybin, the price of drugs would likely decrease if they were regulated by the government because most of those other drugs are insanely overpriced.  Even if the government did try to regulate the price using taxes people could undercut them by making those drugs or using a substitute.

This gets back to my main point that any tax on a business or the products it sells trickles down to the consumer.  By raising taxes on oil companies their cost of doing business increases.  They will pass on this cost to consumers if the tax is industry wide.  If a tax is not industry wide then they can cut other costs of doing business such as finding other suppliers, cutting labor costs, finding accounting tricks, or by merging with other companies so their size is able to cut the cost of business.

It is illogical to say that raising a tax on the oil industry will reduce oil prices.  More revenue may go into the pocket of the government but that money is coming directly from the consumers.  The oil companies or any company does not pay any tax unless it makes a profit, and they don't make a profit unless someone buys their product.  Investors expect a certain amount of profit and if they don't get that amount they will move on to more lucrative investments.
1034  Other / Politics & Society / Re: George Zimmerman arrested for 2nd degree murder for killing Trayvon Martin on: April 13, 2012, 08:17:01 AM
...or was it Trayvon acting suspiciously that created the situation which lead to the shooting?  So many questions...

This is irrelevant. Zimmerman can only claim that he was walking around and minding his business when Martin attacked him. That's his only defense, anything else will convict him.




The law does not say Zimmerman has to mind his own business.  Zimmerman just can't be involved in a criminal act while claiming self defense.  I think the special prosecutor just passed the buck to the trial judge.  If the trial judge doesn't have any balls then they will pass the buck to the jury.

If everything Zimmerman claims is true then he will be suffering when the civil lawsuit bankrupts him for life and the guilt for killing a 17 year old boy.  If he did kill Zimmerman not out of self defense but because of an emotional response of fear or anger then he will still lose the civil lawsuit.

My point is, not everyone has to go to jail for justice to occur.  Maybe after this people will mind their own business.  Zimmerman's problem is that he acted like the police too much.  He probably talked to them a lot after the shooting that could be used against thim.
1035  Other / Off-topic / Re: Samefagging from SomethingAwful on: April 13, 2012, 08:04:19 AM
One of the older goons from SA seems to be convinced I'm a pedo, so just like I did last time when they harassed me (and failed miserably at doing anything about their accusations), I'll sit through this one too.

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3436329&pagenumber=160#post

Since his review of Bruce Wagner was pretty hilarious, I can't wait to promote whatever satirical creation he makes about me on http://buttcoin.org/

It really is awesome being famous. Kiss

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0W6a8ksp4_4
1036  Other / Off-topic / Re: R question on: April 13, 2012, 07:52:10 AM
Did you try stackoverflow.com or the R help group?
1037  Economy / Securities / Re: [GLBSE] BFLS - Bitcoin Mining & Sales on: April 13, 2012, 03:15:31 AM
What is the estimated delivery now?
1038  Economy / Securities / Re: [GLBSE] BFLS - Bitcoin Mining & Sales on: April 13, 2012, 02:09:23 AM
Let me see if I understand. So BFLS.FUTURES will work almost as a bond to raise capital, but without any interest payment. So, you get the credit to buy equipment for free, and the buyer of the share/bond/asset/whatever has to wait on a line for the hardware to arrive and become functional. And he'll begin to be compensated for the invested capital only if he's granted it's place on the line for exchanging this asset one on one for another supposedly more valuable...

It's that it? Am I missing something? What if the minirigs won't ever arrive? What if it take forever? We all will be stuck with an useless electronic asset without any compensation for the waiting?

Doesn't sound like a good deal to me... Maybe if you include some dividend payments as a form of interest and some guarantee to buy back or exchange the assets at least partially if something goes wrong it could work, but otherwise I'm not seeing it...

It can be a good deal, but I think in the BFLS.FUTURES should have a definite date in the contract of when the BFLS.FUTURES contracts can be converted to BFLS shares.
1039  Economy / Securities / Re: [GLBSE] BFLS - Bitcoin Mining & Sales on: April 12, 2012, 07:19:17 PM
Let me see if I understand. So BFLS.FUTURES will work almost as a bond to raise capital, but without any interest payment. So, you get the credit to buy equipment for free, and the buyer of the share/bond/asset/whatever has to wait on a line for the hardware to arrive and become functional. And he'll begin to be compensated for the invested capital only if he's granted it's place on the line for exchanging this asset one on one for another supposedly more valuable...

It's that it? Am I missing something? What if the minirigs won't ever arrive? What if it take forever? We all will be stuck with an useless electronic asset without any compensation for the waiting?

Doesn't sound like a good deal to me... Maybe if you include some dividend payments as a form of interest and some guarantee to buy back or exchange the assets at least partially if something goes wrong it could work, but otherwise I'm not seeing it...

It is basically an interest free loan given to the mining company for the agreement to exchange the bonds for shares in the company in the future.  The only profit would be if there is some kind of difference between the price of the bond now and the future price of the BFLS shares when they are converted or the dividend payments when having the BFLS shares.

Maybe the market will have a spread between how much the bonds cost and how much the shares cost.  It will be fun to watch, but for current shareholders it may be more economical to just get a 0% interest loan with a credit card to purchase more boards.
1040  Other / Off-topic / Re: We're almost certainly living in a simulation on: April 11, 2012, 10:09:38 PM
It is most rational to assume that we're all very likely not living in a real universe, but in a simulated universe. We're being simulated on the hard drives of computers of the future.

This is called the "Simulation argument" and is seriously discussed in academic circles. It was introduced in a paper by philosopher Nick Bostrom of Oxford University.

There is little to assume to make this argument robust. Consciousness is at last the result of information processing. Then you have to grant that humans of the future build and run simulations of the past in the way we run simulations today (Sims games, etc), and then there is just one short move: the simulated universes almost by definition will outnumber real universes, and therefore we're far more likely to be among the simulated ancestors than the real ancestors.

Found in this video debate about consciousness and afterlife (sequence starting at 18m 20s):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbzd6ZbCowY&t=18m20s

Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulation_argument
Bostrom's Paper: http://www.simulation-argument.com/simulation.html

Quote
[...] One thing that later generations might do with their super-powerful computers is run detailed simulations of their forebears or of people like their forebears. Because their computers would be so powerful, they could run a great many such simulations. Suppose that these simulated people are conscious (as they would be if the simulations were sufficiently fine-grained and if a certain quite widely accepted position in the philosophy of mind is correct). Then it could be the case that the vast majority of minds like ours do not belong to the original race but rather to people simulated by the advanced descendants of an original race. It is then possible to argue that, if this were the case, we would be rational to think that we are likely among the simulated minds rather than among the original biological ones. Therefore, if we don’t think that we are currently living in a computer simulation, we are not entitled to believe that we will have descendants who will run lots of such simulations of their forebears. [...]

So what does this mean for Bitcoin? It's an in-game currency for this simulated universe, will they trade with it in the next outer simulated universe? And the next? omg buy buy buy!  Shocked

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7D0BeLz5blM&t=1m23s
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