Okay I stand corrected, I was using the wrong terms. I will not explain what I was thinking as it is not really important but we are on the same page, and over all the .02 BTC will mean almost nothing. However what is this plan of yours for this island and harem? I see a new GLBSE listing being worked out very soon!
Heh, personal use only. A publicly traded harem is just another name for a dirty whorehouse.  Edit: On an unrelated note, I see someone bought TYGRR-P @ 1.1BTC. For the life of me I can't figure out why anyone would do that when they can just wait half a week and have Goat fill the order at 1.02BTC. Maybe that wasn't clear at the time. Or maybe the buyer didn't know this. There's plenty of people who just throw coins at things. Without even the slightest clue of what they're doing... Oh, so it's just like in the "real" world? (/me eyes facebook) |
|
|
|
|
what the?!? people sold for 0.08? why not wait for goat to buy back?
|
|
|
|
java, node.js, write timer loop yourself in php or use some php scheduling stuff? I don't know. For the kind of stuff we're looking at here, there's good APIs in every language, so it really boils down to personal language preference, I guess. I'd probably use java because I'm most comfortable with it. Unfortunately I cannot recommend my "traidor" code, because the orderbook still gets out of sync.
One remark: I don't know about the stability of the socket.io feed nowadays, but maybe you should implement a fallback to http api?
molecular - I currently use a scheduler to execute a PHP call every minute using the http api, however I'm interested in having a live feed for the best prices as they are added to the orderbook. To my knowledge, PHP isnt brilliant at handling streaming feeds and I'm yet to find a way of doing this server-side. I could stand corrected though, I'm just waiting for a script-kiddy to tell me otherwise. Whats java like at handling streaming data? Are you talking about streaming from your server to some clients or about receiving mtgox socket.io/websocket stream? If the latter: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5783086/java-socket-io-clientIf the former: http://code.google.com/p/socketio-java/I never tried any of these, so I don't know how well they handle things. How would you run a script like that on a server?
If it's also serving web-pages I'd probably run it in the context of a servlet container like tomcat or jetty. If not, I'd probably write an init-script that just runs "java -jar myjar.jar" and do scheduling within the app. To be honest, I might just start it in a screen (gnu screen) session if I'm the only one depending on it |
|
|
|
The central plank of his criticism was that there is no deposit market in Bitcoin, which means institutional investors cannot park money in it, sell futures, or hedge volatility.
This is false as demonstrated by BTC lending threads on this forum. The market for Bitcoin deposits is very new but it will only grow in time.
Yes, and they're options too, in mpex. As you say, everything may be really brand new, and not yet completely established, but everyday new things are emerging. but, but "it's so volatile and there's no regulation on the thing" |
|
|
|
The central plank of his criticism was that there is no deposit market in Bitcoin, which means institutional investors cannot park money in it, sell futures, or hedge volatility.
This is false as demonstrated by BTC lending threads on this forum. The market for Bitcoin deposits is very new but it will only grow in time.
omfg, why didn't I read to the end of the thread, I could've avoided writing that longish post I just wrote. Thanks for that, BitcoinTtraderIE |
|
|
|
hey cypher, awesome huge post of yours ( https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=81642.msg910908#msg910908) one remark: 4. so with that background what is this that Bromberg is talking about with the deposit market, UST's, investment vehicles?
I'm not sure, he says this ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=NULPfp0Zu5g#t=1666s) ...very very useful for your fx risk. So it turns out that the cost for the currency forward is determined mathematically from the deposit rates. [...] there is a mathematical relationship between deposit rates and the cost of a forward like that. [...] so the deposit market is really really important for an international corporation, because that's really gonna speak to how much their future costs are gonna be and how easy it's gonna be for them to hedge. So there's this really tripartite relationship between those concepts: hedging, forwards, deposits.
this part hasn't left my mind since I watched the vid a while ago (last night? the night before), because I can't quite figure it out. First of all, I don't know what a deposit market is... (looks at TyGrrr-Bank, the pirate stuff,... where one can deposit bitcoins and receive interest payment (while accepting risk of loss)... is that a deposit market?). Is he implying that bitcoin has no (sufficiently insured) deposit market and therefore big corps wont enter the bitcoin sphere because they just can't hedge (efficiently enough) the exchange risk? EDIT: a bit later on he says: so, in order to have a deposit market, you need investment vehicles; you need someplace you can put your money, that will make more of that money. Unless you have investment vehicles, you don't have a deposit market, which means you can't have forwards, which means you can't have hedging, which means you don't have institutional investors getting involved in that currency...
and directly after that: which is not gonna happen, because there's no regulators on the thing.
now wtf. those are 2 different arguments. While the first one might be valid (I can neither judge the argument itself nor wether or not sufficient deposit markets exist for bitcoin), the second one doesn't seem to be well thought-out and he doesn't explain it further, only says "volatility is too high". It seems the possibility of hedging should be able to deal with that, using his own argument. Quite frankly, I've come to think his argument that bitcoin is not a currency is crap. |
|
|
|
Okay I stand corrected, I was using the wrong terms. I will not explain what I was thinking as it is not really important but we are on the same page, and over all the .02 BTC will mean almost nothing. However what is this plan of yours for this island and harem? I see a new GLBSE listing being worked out very soon!
Heh, personal use only. A publicly traded harem is just another name for a dirty whorehouse. Edit: On an unrelated note, I see someone bought TYGRR-P @ 1.1BTC. For the life of me I can't figure out why anyone would do that when they can just wait half a week and have Goat fill the order at 1.02BTC. Maybe that wasn't clear at the time. Or maybe the buyer didn't know this. |
|
|
|
In Greece you would have just to sell bitcoins for euros, Sure... but how would this seller get his € out of Greece? Is he Geek and willing to keep his money in Greece? They can do that no problem. They can transfer money anywhere in the eurozone... so far they haven't pulled off! They can deposit to Intersango or MtGox just as easily as you can. What kind of capital control is being implemented? If they can just transfer EUR to some bank in Poland (intersango), the how is capital flow controlled at all? Money just left country, right? |
|
|
|
Maybe launching a service to facilitate capital flight?
That's the only thing that has any chance of some traction since Bitcoin is so far out of their general population's world view making it extremely hard to accept as valid. But a path to avoid capital controls is surely going be attractive once their government starts limiting people's freedom with their money. Awesome! Now we are getting somewhere! How would you envision such a service working? No idea and I personally probably fear the monopoly on violence a bit too much in order to engage in breaking the capital control rules in a foreign country. But I imagine someone will want to take that risk and facilitate capital flow out of the country and instead of smuggling cash they can do it with bitcoins. S/t like that may be done in a legal way. In Greece you would have just to sell bitcoins for euros, and maybe sometimes offering some help to send them. This should still be legal (until they outlaw bitcoins). Now, Greeks are exporting billions of euros and many of them find attractive to export capital undetected in order to not pay taxes on it; that's why they may like bitcoins. The only difficulty might be finding someone in Switzerland or wherever they want to export their money available to exchange their bitcoin for cash in person at a decent rate, assuming that they do not want use exchange agencies. I do not think that many of them would be ready to use confidently the OTC market (which is too mostly dependent on bank transactions). Or, maybe they'll look at bitcoin and like it better for it's monetary properties than fiat and just KEEP THEM In that case all that's needed is some guy selling bitcoin for EUR in greece. This guy would face the same problem then, however, right? So I don't think this can work. |
|
|
|
how about handing everyone casascius coins?
That's nice in some contexts (not only the one of this topic), but they're too expensive right now to be given away at large quantities... perhaps casacius should start doing some 100 and 50 mBTC coins (or lower, if viable) I've given lower-denomination physical bitcoin some thought a while back. Problem is of course the production cost. Best idea I was able to come up with back then: print tiny qr-code with privkey on a about 0.5 cm x 1.0 cm size paper, print address on other side and fold so that privkey is not visible, put everything into a drop of transparent casting resin which can be opened by hammer to redeem. Now against conterfeiting, I don't know, maybe include a hologram after all. Any ideas? |
|
|
|
- Consider making your SocketIO classes more generic and creating an MTGox sub-class which inherits from it, passing in event handlers (on_connect, on_msg, etc). This will make things easier if and when other exchanges add streaming APIs.
Consider this considered. However, when thinking about integrating other exchanges, there is a lot more work on other parts of my code to be done. I've been wanting to do this for a while now but decided if I would do it, I'd reimplement in another language that better suits my experience. What languages do you recommend for best integration with SocketIO and streaming data? I've been looking into scripting pages with PHP but it seems a little tough to integrate as its a language which generates pages on call. Also I'd like to write a server-side script to run at home which will accept a socketio feed and place trades automatically. I currently do this again with the json calls API however because its written in PHP, it requires a cron call every x minutes. I'm looking for a better solution. java, node.js, write timer loop yourself in php or use some php scheduling stuff? I don't know. For the kind of stuff we're looking at here, there's good APIs in every language, so it really boils down to personal language preference, I guess. I'd probably use java because I'm most comfortable with it. Unfortunately I cannot recommend my "traidor" code, because the orderbook still gets out of sync. One remark: I don't know about the stability of the socket.io feed nowadays, but maybe you should implement a fallback to http api? |
|
|
|
Hashrate went up again for the fourth week in a row making Bitminter a middle tier pool. Another four weeks? Anyone want to bet on the probability of bitminter being a top tier pool by then?
go ahead and make a bet at betsofbitco.in, that way, we can hedge against it not being so and also have some little gambling fun |
|
|
|
Ich habe ein Gewerbe zum An- und Verkauf von Silber und Euro.
Zudem trade ich seit kurzem BTC (Barankauf, elektronischer Verkauf).
Ich habe im letzten Jahr eine EÜR abgegeben, bei der ich meine Ausgaben in € (laut Quittungen) angab.
Zudem habe ich meine Verkäufe (die ja in BTC) erfolgen so angegeben: BTC via MtGox_LOW in USD umgerechnet, dann in EUR.
Das habe ich gegeneinandergestellt.
Ich hatte naturgemäß mehr Ausgaben als Einnhamen -> tadaa, Steuerersparnis.
In diesem Jahr brummt's. Bestellungen von 5oz Gold und Umsätze von 2000 BTC sind die Regel.
in welchem Zeitraum? Das ist dann aber kein Kleinunternehmertum mehr. Bist du Umsatzsteuerabzugsberechtigt? Welchem MtGox_LOW-kurs nimmst du? vom verkaufstag? Du hast also ertrag in BTC und bewertest den in EUR? Was ist dann wenn du die BTC wieder veräusserst? Fällt dann nicht Kapitalerstragssteuer an? Ich komm nich ganz mit, du buchhaltest hier so, als würdest du die BTC, welche du eingenommen hast, direkt wieder in EUR tauschen. Tust du das auch oder hältst du die BTC? Eine Finanzamtsmitarbbeiterin meinte sogar, ich müsste nur ein Geschäftskonto anlegen, wo sämtliche unbaren Eingänge verzeichnet wären, und dann Alle Ausgaben und unbare Einnahmen protokollieren, gegeneinanderstellen et voila! hätte ich den zu versteuernden Gewinn.
Was meint Ihr?
Hilf mir mal auf die Sprünge... was sind "unbare" Eingänge? Und mit "Konto" ist hier ein Konto in deiner Buchhaltung gemeint oder ein Bankkonto? Was ist denn mit USt? Wenn du Silbermünzen verkaufst sind 7% Umsatzsteuer abzuführen. Machst du das? Ist ja kein Problem, durchlaufender Posten den du beim Einkauf wieder gegenrechnest. Aber wo nimmst du die 7% her? 7% der eingenommenen BTC auf gox tauschen und ab an's finanzamt? Auf jeden Fall sehr interessant das mal zu hören was deine Finanzbeamtin da so sagt. Danke für die Infos. |
|
|
|
|
Screw tracking coins!
I want bitcoin to be money. Without fungibility it is not money.
had to spew this somewhere, probably not the most appropriate thread. Can anyone point me to a fruitful discussion about this?
|
|
|
|
|
great, shares have been "issued".
goat, in order to make better decisions regarding "secondary market" (dealing amongst ourselves), let me ask about your plan to issue more and if so, how you will determine the price?
Sorry if this has been answered already.
|
|
|
|
|
when will you be issuing the shares?
|
|
|
|
hey guys, just fyi, did some multiplying and adding and thought I'd share: - 0.02557301 BTC: 0.0256
- 0.1 Shares of PureMining: 0.42 BTC * 0.1 = 0.042 BTC
- 0.2 Shares of JLP-BMD: 0.26 BTC * 0.2 = 0.052 BTC
- 0.26 Shares of MergedMining: 0.161 BTC * 0.26 = 0.0418 BTC
- 0.09 Shares of Cognitive: 0.5825 BTC * 0.09 = 0.052425 BTC
- 0.11 Shares of BTCSYN: 0.335 BTC * 0.11 = 0.03685 BTC
- 0.045 Shares of BITBOND: 0.646 BTC * 0.045 = 0.02907
rough estimate of the value of 1 share M-ETF: 0.28 BTC (might contain errors, did this pretty much by hand, used rough mid-point between current bid and ask for value of constituents, please point out any mistakes, do your own due diligence, blablabla) |
|
|
|
But but... I thought the speculators (bless their souls!) were doing God's work! How dare anyone suggest that the speculative trading might be a closed loop and irrelevant to the stability of the system?
Don't people realise that if a speculator borrows funds and skilfully creates the perfect trading pattern, the pretty geometric shapes will hypnotise the sheeple and cause them all to react in a predictable (and highly profitable) manner?
haha, you made me laugh. awesome post. |
|
|
|
Guys! We've derailed the thread. We are supposed to be discussing how we can get the Greeks to buy into Bitcoin.
Go to Greece and spent a week on the streets yelling about bitcoin/hand out some flyers. Its how most grassroots and political parties do it - get the attention of a few hundred, then hope they tell 2 others each. Great idea. But I cannot go to Greece. I'm sure there is someone here who is in greece, we could make the fliers and get them to distribute them at the rallies/riots how about handing everyone casascius coins? |
|
|
|
|
Show Posts
