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10381  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: [ANN] A public company will build a huge Bitcoin Mining Operation (ASIC). on: April 06, 2012, 07:32:14 PM
That was exactly the point of my question and again, afaik (and please educate me if that's wrong) orphans are not included into the block rate calculations, so the remaining 49% of valid and verified blocks produced will not all orphans. Of course I agree there will be a lot of orphans and mining efficiency of regular miners will suffer in the process.
If they all were orphans, a 51% miner had effectively 100%.

A 51% miner could have 100% of the generated blocks and 100% of block rewards.  So yes a 51% miner effectively has 100%.  Every block produced by the 49% would be orphaned out (eventually).
10382  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The Royal Canadian Mint just announced a new alternative to BitCoin on: April 06, 2012, 07:27:29 PM
1) The US regulated utilities tend to be more expensive than independent power producers where wholesale power is trading on open market, and don't get me started on how worthless US mail service is despite their monopoly.


2)  None of that applies to this scenario.  A monopoly isn't necessary for MintChip, or Bitcoin to (co)exist and it certainly isn't a natural monopoly.

3) From your own quote "the least of these evils is private unregulated monopoly"  and "that such action by government should not consist of forbidding competition by law"
10383  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The Royal Canadian Mint just announced a new alternative to BitCoin on: April 06, 2012, 07:15:34 PM
Regarding #3 when has a monopolistic entity ever offered low/no fees?

When it is run by the government as a regulated monopoly.

Examples?  I can't think of many govt regulated monopolies which are efficient.  Why would they want to?
10384  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Sinking ships on: April 06, 2012, 07:14:36 PM
This has nothing to do with bureaucracies.  Many private entities sink ships also.

OP it is simply expensive to strip, cut, and melt ships.  Far cheaper to just sink it.  They also becomes artificial reefs so that becomes a plus given the rate we are destroying natural reefs.

Kinda the same question of "why do people throw away metal, paper, glass & plastics only to have to mine new resources out of the earth each year"?
10385  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The Royal Canadian Mint just announced a new alternative to BitCoin on: April 06, 2012, 07:11:48 PM
Regarding #3 when has a monopolistic entity ever offered low/no fees?
10386  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: A proposed solution to adjust for lost Bitcoins: wallet 'heartbeats' on: April 06, 2012, 05:05:01 PM
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There might very well be a problem, and no matter how we end up solving it, we should have some solution ready.

It isn't a problem, it will never be a problem.  The entire global economy could function on 1 BTC.

Confiscating property is theft.  You don't own anything on Blizzard's servers.  Those conditions are made perfectly clear.  Anything you do on their servers remains their property.  If you don't agree then you can choose to not use Blizzard's products.

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Not if the currency is designed to work that way. It depends on how set in stone you think the Bitcoin rules are at this point. The answer, I'd imagine, is "very"

But it wasn't designed to work that way.  Bitcoin was designed to be IRREVERSIBLE.  This isn't a minor protocol technicality it is a cornerstone of the entire social contract between participants.  Bitcoin tx can never be reversed.

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To later change the rules and such a fundamental rule was irreversibility is immoral.   Taking the property of another is theft.  Now it may (and likely) isn't a crime but that would only be due to lack of legal precedent on Bitcoins.  We should be arguing for further reinforcement (Socially, politically, legally) that Bitcoins are property and subject to the same legal protections are other property.

If Bitcoins aren't property then Mt.Gox (or any other entity) has a right to simply take all the funds deposited with them without legal or financial consequence.  Is that the road you want to go down to "solve" a problem which has never and will never exist?
10387  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [360GH/s] p2pool: Decentralized, DoS-resistant, Hop-Proof pool on: April 06, 2012, 04:48:49 PM
I note from the last line of the "usage" that (multiple) bitcoind RPC user/passwords may be OPTIONALLY included.  When would one include them?

If bitcoind and p2pool are not on the same machine.
10388  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The Royal Canadian Mint just announced a new alternative to BitCoin on: April 06, 2012, 03:44:54 PM
what makes you think that?
10389  Economy / Marketplace / Re: MPEx soon out of beta. on: April 06, 2012, 03:04:09 PM
Wait a $100 registration fee?  Really?
10390  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: A proposed solution to adjust for lost Bitcoins: wallet 'heartbeats' on: April 06, 2012, 03:01:38 PM
There is absolutely no reason to seize coins which haven't been used in a "while".  It is theft.  Pure and simple and worse it isn't even necessary.
While I agree completely on your position and explanation (every quantity of money is sufficient and perfectly functional for a good economy), I do not agree that this can be considered "theft":

- refresh the deposity every 10 years (or every 1 million blocks, or whatever it is) is simlple to do by hand and completely automatable, so without any risk of "theft"

- reclaim of lost bitcoins must be made from miners, and so it needs a lot of work for it, and this gives them incentive to mine. So this enables to have less transaction fees.

It doesn't matter how easy it is to avoid theft, taking/confiscating property without due process is theft.

You have no RIGHT to the property of others.  Period.  If someone makes a deterministic wallet based on a passphrase and then say gets sent to prison for 30 years you should have a right to their personal property because they didn't use it?

Confiscation of property without due process is theft.  I don't care if it is 1 year or 10,000 years.   Worse it is theft that isn't necessary.  Users should have confidence that coins they acquire are theirs and theirs alone without exception.
10391  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Electric Cost on: April 06, 2012, 01:43:11 PM
FPGA are really your only option.

Still energy costs still matters so you may want to look into buying shares in an FPGA mining company which has lower energy costs than you do.  Over time FPGA will displace GPU.  When that happens FPGA in low energy environments will be more efficient than FPGA in high energy environments.

Still my guess is that is a couple years away so the competitiveness risk is minimal for FPGA if you feel the need to own your own hardware.

I got cheap electricity and I feel the competitive pressure of rising difficulty, looming block cuts, and more FPGA being sold.  Running GPU (3-4 MH/W) on $0.25 is just economic suicide.  You likely don't want to even look at BFL singles (10MH/W) and instead want to look towards Spartan-6 based boards (20MH/W) or wait for next gen 28nm boards (~40MH/W). 
10392  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: A proposed solution to adjust for lost Bitcoins: wallet 'heartbeats' on: April 06, 2012, 01:38:06 PM
This is a good idea.

Let's look at a scenario where we've got 20 people, each with about 10k bitcoins they've acquired over 10 years. These 20 people all happened to die in the next few years (car accidents, heart attacks, cancer, whatever). That is 200k bitcoins that are instantly taken out of circulation. With a continuing trend, over enough years bitcoins will fade out and the whole communities dreams of bitcoins replacing our current currency is destroyed. At this point in time, sure.. 200k doesn't seem like a lot when there are plenty to go around because they're still being generated. Once 21m coins are reached, the amount of "lost" or forgotten bitcoins will start to add up quickly.

Entire world economy could function using a handful of Bitcoins. 

There aren't 21M coins.  There are  21 quadrillion finite units (each worth 1E-8 BTC)  that's 2,100,000,000,000,000.

Total global money supply is ~$60T.  If entire world used Bitcoin as a one world currency then each satoshi would be worth ~3 cents.  Under any more realistic scenario a satoshi is worth a tiny fraction of a penny.  Even a 99% loss of coins would make a Satoshi sub 1 cent.

If due to deflation 1 satoshi ever became larger than the min unit necessary for commerce (for many countries that is ~$0.10 or $0.05) the number of sub units could be increased.  i.e. instead of min unit of 1E-8 it would be min unit = 1E-9 or 1E-12.

There is absolutely no reason to seize coins which haven't been used in a "while".  It is theft.  Pure and simple and worse it isn't even necessary.


10393  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [360GH/s] p2pool: Decentralized, DoS-resistant, Hop-Proof pool on: April 06, 2012, 12:28:01 PM
So, in the end, is Panda Mouse right or wrong?

spiccioli

No and his math isn't even close to reality.  Given he hasn't answered any questions on what he calculated for standard deviation or shown any work I don't know how he "calculated" that.  He also seems to think that mining is a normal distribution which it isn't.

Since p2pool started the expected # of blocks found would be 305.

95% of the time after 305 expected blocks we should have found at least 267 and no more than 344.  As you can see that is a pretty large variance, +/- ~40 blocks.  

The 95% confidence interval is 305 blocks +/- 40.  To convert that to luck you could say the pool should be within 88% to 112% of expected return 95% of the time.  We are at 91% cumulative lifetime luck but still in the range expected.

Just to show how wrong the numbers provided were for us to have a 95% confidence interval of <2 luck% (~99% to ~101% luck) would require an expected # of blocks to be ~50,000 blocks

10394  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The Royal Canadian Mint just announced a new alternative to BitCoin on: April 06, 2012, 04:47:13 AM
Yeah it is called astroturfing.  The good news is most astroturf attempts fail when the money stops.  Everyone has a budget ... well I am not sure that applies to central banks given they can just print more money.
10395  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: Wonder who this solominer is? 88.6.216.9 on: April 06, 2012, 12:57:07 AM
The issue would be invalid nodes will build a block with the bad tx.  It will be orphaned and the invalid nodes will see the same bad tx as a pending tx and perpetually make new bad blocks with the same bad tx.  Any out of date bitcoind will see these bad blocks as good and having the highest height and try to build off it.  

New nodes will see the bad block as invalid and build off the prior block thus never get invalidated when the bad chain becomes orphaned.

I am not saying that mystery IS using an outdated bitcoind but outdated nodes will perpetually try to include the bad tx in the next block.

The 35 orphaned blocks are not a long 35 block chain they are a large number of 1,2,3 block chains.
10396  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The Royal Canadian Mint just announced a new alternative to BitCoin on: April 06, 2012, 12:53:53 AM
Well technicalities or not the point is that when User A is paying user B, user B is relying on the fact that user A "can't" break the chip.  The chip ensures security.  If User A has extracted private keys and can generate thousands or millions of duplicate tx at will there is nothing user B can do to detect that.  To user B chip the tx looks as valid as any other valid tx.  

If I'm reading their specs correctly, if A manages to break the chip she could generate duplicate transactions for the full value stored on the chip to B and C and D (and E and F and...).

But she wouldn't be able to double-spend the same funds to B, because B's chip is able to detect that attempted double-spend.

That is my understanding also based on the limited information.  My issue would be the track record of "secrets on a chip" is pretty bad.  It really is only a matter of when not if the chip gets hacked.

Quote
I bet the Mint honors all of the the A -> B/C/D/... transactions, so B/C/D/... don't lose any money. The Mint eats the loss (it just shows up as inflation in the money supply, so really EVERYBODY pays for the fraud), and if the problem gets large enough they declare version 1.0 of their chips obsolete and come out with a New and More Secure version.

That is what I am thinking.  Would they just raise fees (to remove the surplus currency from the economy) or would they eventually be forced to lower the exchange rate (i.e. 1 mintchip dollar = 0.97 physical dollars).
10397  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The Royal Canadian Mint just announced a new alternative to BitCoin on: April 05, 2012, 11:21:07 PM
Well, there will be a ledger recording issuance and redemption I'm presuming, it just won't be real-time.

For instance, the broker will know which MintChip id the funds went to.  So the Mint's "centralized ledger" will probably show that.

After that, the broker doesn't and can't know if the funds have then been spent to another MintChip though.  Those transactions are from one MintChip to another MintChip and don't have to to be checked against a central ledger to see if the funds are good.  

Only when a person or merchant redeems the funds on its MintChip back to a broker (in exchange for fiat) does the trail of transactions become known to the broker or Mint.

So technically there is a centralized ledger, it just isn't complete with real-time information as to which MintChip has what funds.

Well technicalities or not the point is that when User A is paying user B, user B is relying on the fact that user A "can't" break the chip.  The chip ensures security.  If User A has extracted private keys and can generate thousands or millions of duplicate tx at will there is nothing user B can do to detect that.  To user B chip the tx looks as valid as any other valid tx.  
10398  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The Royal Canadian Mint just announced a new alternative to BitCoin on: April 05, 2012, 11:19:13 PM

With MintChip there is no blockchain. There is no central ledger (centralized or decentralized).

Why do you think this? I thought the description made it pretty clear there is a central clearinghouse for all transactions. Your money is not on the chip, the chip is just an account# and keys to spend. The balance is recorded in the central clearinghouse.

Absolutely nothing indicates that.  Nowhere in the docs, descriptions, API.  Nowhere.

Tx are person to person.

Receiver chip makes a request. Sender chip uses that to create a credit, sign it, and give it DIRECTLY to the receiver.  Receiver chip updates internal balance and senders chip reduces internal balance.

Please indicate anywhere that indicates tx between users are recorded to a clearinghouse.
10399  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: Wonder who this solominer is? 88.6.216.9 on: April 05, 2012, 11:12:07 PM
Except that he wasn't including any transactions, so he wouldn't include the poison transaction or any that depend on it.

But if his bitcoind is out of date he would see the invalid block as valid and continue to build upon that making any block he generates invalid (tx or not).  A block built on an invalid block is by definition invalid.
10400  Economy / Speculation / Re: Bitcoin price to explode in next 24h on: April 05, 2012, 09:58:02 PM
I am pretty sure it is going to explode ..... sideways.
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