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10421  Bitcoin / Mining software (miners) / Re: 7970 + Linux(Ubuntu) + 12.2 + SDK 2.6 + cgminer 2.3.1 => always coredump on: April 05, 2012, 05:47:13 PM
I have never had any luck w/ 5970s & SDK 2.6 or newest drivers.

Your best bet may be to just run dedicated 7970 rigs and either sell the 5970s or buy 2 more and make a dedicated 5970 rig.

As an experiment if you remove the 5970s (and do an aticonfig adapter=all -f --initial then sync and reboot) is the system stable again?
10422  Economy / Speculation / Re: so today is like 12 or 18 ? on: April 05, 2012, 05:35:56 PM
where is the option for neither.
10423  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: I wish to trial a content subscription system with BTC for media content on: April 05, 2012, 05:34:21 PM
Bitcoin doesn't allow billing only owner can make payments.

You can however allow prepaid subscriptions.  i.e. 1 BTC = 90 days and when user logins they see a "topup" address and a counter (10 days remaining,  extend time by transfering more fund to 1BTCADRESSSe78393273289).
10424  Economy / Goods / Re: DISCOUNT AMAZON CODES FOR SALE 20% DISCOUNT, not! on: April 05, 2012, 04:52:30 PM
Have you reported it to the mods?
10425  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The Royal Canadian Mint just announced a new alternative to BitCoin on: April 05, 2012, 04:37:16 PM
How do you expect to make these millions of fake transactions? If you have to communicate with mintchip central to reload your "hacked" card that can only hold $10 maximum (this is an assumption i dont know for sure yet, but I have to assume it has a fairly low maximum load) And the time it would take you to hack many many cards would be infeasable.

What are you talking about?

The point of hacking the card would be to extract the private keys and use those to create tx.
Tx that the the receiver's chip will validate as 100% authentic.

Card with $10USD
tx 1 for $10 USD
tx 2 for $10 USD
tx 3 for $10 USD
....
tx 1,000,000 for $10 USD.

In Bitcoin this is impossible because each tx is submitted to the blockchain.  The merchant getting tx2 will see tx1 on the blockchain and know it is fake.  With MintChip there is no central "ledger".  Each chip uses ONLY the tx is receives to verify if it is valid.  Nothing else.  No calls to trusted broker, no central ledger, no communication with central bank.

If you make a fake/duplicate tx which is signed as valid the receiver has no way to know it isn't valid.  In essence you just printed money.  Your logic is like saying nobody will ever counterfeit $20 bills because they are at most worth $20 ($20 is most commonly counterfeited bill).   Sure if you intend to only make 1 fake $20 bill it isn't worth it but making 1 million fake $20 bills isn't much harder than making 1.  Obviously nobody intending to counterfeit intends to only make a handful of fake bills.  

With digital currency making a trillion fake $10 tx is no harder than making 1 fake $10 tx.

And lastly obviously buying funds from the central bank wouldn't be fake funds would it?

Given every single "the secret is on the chip" system has been broken to think this one will be the impossible one is kinda naive.  At one time people said counterfeiting sat TV cards was impossible too.
10426  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Version 0.6.0 released on: April 05, 2012, 04:20:51 PM
This release is unstable as hell.  I get crashes.  I get unexpected exits.  And I get failures to restart.

Good thing you reported this in RC1 to RC5 so it is already fixed..... er wait you didn't?
10427  Economy / Computer hardware / Re: [WST] 2x AMD RADEON 5970'S WITH DANGERDEN WATERBLOCKS on: April 05, 2012, 04:07:11 PM
where are you located (to determine shipping costs)?
can you post some photos w/ close ups on the inlets of the waterblocks?
what payment methods do you accept?
10428  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The Royal Canadian Mint just announced a new alternative to BitCoin on: April 05, 2012, 04:04:33 PM
I would say the security concerns would be balanced by the fact each mintchip probably has a maximum balance of like $10. So it would cost millions of dollars of scanning electron microscope equipment to try and extract a private key to only get $10? Thats infeasible enough that it works perfectly fine I bet.

I doubt it will take millions of dollars in hardware to break it but hypothetically lets say it did.
There is nothing that indicates the max per chip is $10 but lets say it is (honestly a chip w/ max of $10 is essentially useless.  couldn't even use it to settle up on a business dinner).

Still lets pretend both those conditions exist:
1 million tx of fake $10 ea = lots of fake money.

In essence it is like inflation but instead of the central bank inflating it is thieves who are inflating.  As the # of chip dollars grows in excess of the reserve the redemption rate of chip:physical will decline.
10429  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The Royal Canadian Mint just announced a new alternative to BitCoin on: April 05, 2012, 03:24:12 PM

I'll be waiting for a Prime Time tv show to be about Mint Chip.

You got me! Upon hovering over the link, I learned it wasn't directed toward The Bitcoin Show.

Did you know the Canadian mint is discontinuing the penny? http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/story/2012/03/29/federalbudget-flaherty-penny-cent.html

Also, Fast Company just released a similar article, one with Bitcoin in its title: http://www.fastcompany.com/1829662/canada-to-launch-its-own-version-of-bitcoin-called-mintchip?partner=gnews

~Bruno~


Yay, more false information about bitcoin... -.-
The only link between bitcoin and mintchip is that it's digital as far as i can tell.

Isn't there encryption involved as well? 

How much more of a link do you need to say they are related?

So winzip and Bitcoin are related.

Even if we exclude the fact of trusted brokers and central issuance there is the fundamental concept of security.

With Bitcoin what prevents you from cheating?  What prevents you from making coins out of thin air or spending the same coin a billion times?  The blockchain.  The consensus reached by the distributed network.   You don't send coins to the receiver you record the tx into the blockchain.

With MintChip there is no blockchain. There is no central ledger (centralized or decentralized).  What prevents security is the "chip".  Given every single chip ever made to control access to value (cellphones, sat TV, software, DVD/Bluray) has been broken it is highly unlikely MintChip won't also be broken.

With Bitcoin breaking the client is useless.  The security comes not from the client but from the network.  With MintChip there is a direct tangible benefit of breaking the chip.  A hacked chip would allow you to create tx which are worthless but completely undetectable by the recipient. 
10430  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [360GH/s] p2pool: Decentralized, DoS-resistant, Hop-Proof pool on: April 05, 2012, 03:15:17 PM
Or just hook your local git clone up to a cronjob.

Or miners just take the tiniest amount of personal responsibility and if they can't be bothered to keep the network secure by upgrading to meet deadlines announced months in advance they should quit.
10431  Economy / Economics / Re: Are all stimulants bad? on: April 05, 2012, 03:13:33 PM
It is very unlikely a single entity can control the whole system. The people around the wise king is the root of corruption. FED is not the problem, but those banks are

1) The FED is wholly owned by those corrupt banks.  If you believe the banks are corrupt then so if the Fed.  It is like saying that guy is a murderer but his right eye is innocent.

2) The king might not be wise.  That is the entire root of the problem.  Greenspan admitted he was WRONG.  He thought loose money would be corrected by market forces.  That banks wouldn't take on too much risk and act in their own self interest.  Greenspan forgot (or was likely too close) to realize that assumes all the actors are rational and face real consequences.

So yes if the FED was completely incorruptible, always accurate, and it could be guaranteed that would NEVER change in the future (not in a decade, not in a millennium) then monetary intervention (tightening and loosening to match money supply growth to economic growth) could in theory be beneficial.

The reality is the FED is BOTH corrupt (beholden to the banks interest over the interests of the citizens) AND fallible.  We have 50 years of horrible monetary policy as their track records.  On a larger context that concept is called a benevolent dictatorship.  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_dictatorship

Free markets are to Democracies as Centrally Planned markets are to Dictatorships.

"Democracy is the worst form of government except for all those others that have been tried."

Maybe someday technological and evolutionary progress will allow for the creation of the perfect Utopian to administer the Utopia see "The Culture" fiction (Iain M. Banks).  In the meantime Democracies and free markets are optimal given the limits of human technology and evolution.
10432  Economy / Marketplace / Re: BFL Single Order Date/Ship Date on: April 05, 2012, 02:37:18 PM
I don't believe you ordered 50.  If you did, you are stupid.

Maybe the world isn't so black & white.

What if he can get 40GH/s in 8 weeks but 50GH/s in 20 weeks?  Given BFL track record who know when Rig Box will launch.
What if he can sell the 800MH/s units for a markup.  Once again given BFL track record delivery in 2-3 days likely commands a premium.
What happens if 1 unit fails out of warranty (only 6 months).   With singles he loses 2% of hashpower and $700 investment.  With 1 rigbox he loses 100% of hashing power and $30K investment.
10433  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [360GH/s] p2pool: Decentralized, DoS-resistant, Hop-Proof pool on: April 05, 2012, 02:31:56 PM
What version of p2pool?
What version of bitcoind?
10434  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: IMPORTANT: April 1 deadline for BIP16 support on: April 05, 2012, 02:29:52 PM
Also wrong. The majority was only needed to avoid a permanent fork.

No that isn't true.

As long as one miner continues to mine the older version the the fork will continue to exist.  There is no magical number to avoid a fork when implementing a breaking change to the protocol.  A super majority of miners, developers, exchanges, and merchant helps to create a smooth transistion.  If all end users see balances based on the new version then the alternate version has no real relevance.

A mere majority would be horribly chaotic and damaging to Bitcoin.  A worst case scenario.  One either wants the change to have overwhelming support or negligible support to ensure one chain remains dominant.

A 50/50 split would be catastrophic causing double spends across the network as the two incompatible chains switched places in height.  This is why a condition for moving forward with BIP16 was 70%+ support.  That ensure the minority fork would rapidly fall behind and consensus remains without dispute.
10435  Economy / Speculation / Re: MintChip Vs bitcoin, the currency wars are starting... who will win? on: April 05, 2012, 02:22:01 PM
I'm hoping an someone will accept the challenge, and build an app that accepts MintChips for BTC, and verse-vica.

I'm sure it can't win that competition, but it could make news, and maybe even be useful.

It would be cool but you are right it can't win.  One of the judges is a "Bitcoin hater" who routinely speaks out of how Bitcoin is fatally flawed.  It likely annoys him that Bitcoin hasn't just died yet.  I wouldn't be surprised if they deleted any entry related to Bitcoin.
10436  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: 7970 undervolting on: April 05, 2012, 02:20:03 PM
85% efficiency?  Get a better PSU.

Also would be nice if you have/get a Kill-A-Watt so you can compare calculated load @ wall w/ actual load at wall.
10437  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: bitcoin confusion....please explain for a noob... on: April 05, 2012, 02:14:44 PM
Thanks for the replies.

So the bitcoin client does what exactly? Send and receive bitcoins only?

And store them.  It is a wallet.

Quote
Newer VM setups allow you to virtualize hardware, some graphics cards can now be used by a VM host machine.
I was thinking it would be more efficient to virtualize then throwing hardware at the problem.

VM simply split of existing computing power.  They don't magically make more computing power out of nothing.  If your host hardware has "X" computing power you can't get >X out of the VM combined.  Instead of X you could have x/4 + x/4 + x/4 + x/4 but it is still = X (technically <x because of the VM overhead).  What do you think VM do?

The analogy would be like saying.
"why do people build supercomputers?  They could just use a VM?  An atom netbook with VM would be more efficient than a supercomputer."

So why do people build supercomputers?  Is is the same reason why people build massive hashing farms.

Quote
Again, so I am clear on this. Bitcoins can be bought with money or mined with a PC?

Yes.  Or traded for goods & services.
10438  Economy / Economics / Re: Combating friendly fraud on: April 05, 2012, 02:02:08 PM
So let me see if I got it right: a debt collector buys the debt from you and contacts the customer to get the money in an amicable way (doesn't go to court straight away), right?

Well I wouldn't call it amicable however yes they attempt to collect payment on delinquent debt, possibly setup a payment plan, or accept a partial settlement.

Quote
Pennies on the dollar?! This should mean their own recovery rate sucks (or they have huge ROIs Grin)!

Most debt is never collected however yes.  Buying deliquent debt is high risk, high ROI activity.  I tried to point this out in threads were people were selling Bitcoin debt for 50 cents + on the dollar but I guess people find it hard to believe.   Even high quality delinquent debt (copy of contract, full contact information, ability to sue, high enough balance to make collection worthwhile, credit reporting rights, short time since deliquent, long payment history, etc) routinely sells for <10 cents on the dollar.

Quote
And if they do go to court ultimately, where did you find such a progressive debt collector (who's making a tx in the blockchain look like evidence), if you do not mind me asking.

I work in debt collection industry so I have some contacts.  Most debt will never go to court, it simply isn't worth the cost.  The debtor doesn't know that though and sometimes they don't want to risk it.  I have no intention on using blockchain as evidence.

No need to make it complicated:
Customer purchased digital goods worth $x.
Customer fraudulently reversed charges.
Customer is indebted to me for $y ($x + chargeback fees)
Debt sold to third party and customer is indebted to third party for $z ($y plus max legal collection fee plus max legal penalty interest with clock starting on day of purchase).

Honestly I would sell the debt for nothing.  It won't help my bottom line much anyways.  My goal isn't to profit from debt sale but instead to make friendly fraud punitively expensive for customers.  Steal $100 in BTC from me and I lose $100 but you get are $300 in debt to someone who's business it is to extract value from deliquent debtors.  Plus the fun of your credit score falling 20 to 80 points instantly, plus collection agency calls to your home, spouse, workplace, friends, etc.   Remember as you noticed they are motivated to chase those high ROIs. Smiley

Quote
Outsourcing the debt and successfully dealing with the "black fraud" could be the solution, indeed. The question remains: is it worth the headache?

That remains to be seen which is why I intend to start with physical delivery.
10439  Bitcoin / Mining software (miners) / Re: What miner do you use? on: April 05, 2012, 01:51:09 PM
I need some help guys. When i click the cgminer exe and enter my url user and password it starts mining. When i click on the settings.bat file i created the box pops up and then disappears. I did add :port8332 to the url. I hear entering your info every time is the hard way and using settings.bat file is the old way. So im kinda wondering, which is the new easy way?

config file.

I assume you are on windows.

1) Open command line.  
2) Start cgminer w/ minimal parameters.  something like:
Code:
cgminer -o (url:port) -u (username) -p (password)
3) once cgminer launches press S (for settings, and then C (for config file).  You can leave filename blank and press [ENTER].
4) You now have a file named cgminer.conf in the cgminer folder.  
5) Modify that file to modify any parameters you want (backup pools, clocks, fan speed, temps, etc) and save.
6) In the future to start cgminer just double click cgminer (it loads cgminer.conf by default if one is present in the same folder).

You can also write a config file by hand (there is an example in example.conf) but steps 1 to 4 are easier/faster.

Warning: the generated config file may have invalid entries.  

Example:
Code:
"gpu-vddc" : 0.000
that line is trying to set voltage to 0 volts.  Obviously not going to work.  If you want to set a custom voltage you can change the line otherwise just delete it.

10440  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: [ANN] A public company will build a huge Bitcoin Mining Operation (ASIC). on: April 05, 2012, 01:38:06 PM
I agree with you kjlimo.  Just used you as an example.  The idea that if some entity gained 51% (and thus 100%) of mining profits isn't the death of Bitcoin.  Now don't get me wrong I think that is a horrible blow to Satoshi vision but for daily users not much changes.  The idea that BTC value becomes $0.00 is just silly.

The network remains secure, tx are still possible, the protocol is still decentralized.  Sure as a miner it is a death blow but in time if Bitcoin grows the increased profit potential ensures that competitors will once gain decentralize the network.  Life would go on.
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