Coin aging increase chance to mine a block for older stake. Let's say I turn off my wallet for couple days. When I will turn it back on I will be having more blocks mined.
There is an attack vector due to coin aging and it deincentivize people to have 24/7 nodes.
int64_t GetProofOfStakeReward(int64_t nCoinAge, int64_t nFees, unsigned int nHeight)
{
int64_t nSubsidy;
if (nHeight > 11499){
nSubsidy = static_cast<int64_t>(1.2 * COIN);
}else if (nHeight > 1888){
nSubsidy = nCoinAge * COIN_YEAR_REWARD * 33 / (365 * 33 + 8);
Since block 11500 coin age is no longer taken into account when calculating PoS reward. EDIT: I misunderstood you. You said you are not sure how is it organized. So clearly answer is: our PoS is not affected with coin aging stuff. Have anyone tried to use boostrap? Didn't work for me.
What does it mean it did not work for you? Details please. I hope you have uncompressed (7z) it first. |
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Dictator says you have to publish your proposal. Carry out an order
As you wish master. 1. Low inflation is a must. 2. Higher masternodes requirement is a must. It's annoying to create 10 masternode wallets to have a full advantage of it. 3. I do not like coin aging idea. Not sure how 8bit is organized, probably a fork of PPC. Someone expirienced enough could tear off coin aging from the code. 4. Bootrstrap file would help to have wallet ready faster. 1. There's no clear agreement here. I am crypto enthusiast and programmer, not economist. I have to rely on community voice. Community voice is not consistent here. That's why we will vote. 2. Result of voting here is easy to predict. Cost will probably 888 maybe even higher. 3. I know what is it forked from, PoS code origins from PPC like always. What do you mean by aging? Time required to start staking? 4. I have already published boostrap on new website, see https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1028119.msg11736308#msg11736308 |
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Dictator says you have to publish your proposal. Carry out an order
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Anyone telling me what should I do make me laugh. Sorry! There were two months of saying what should be done. Nothing has been done. Now I do what I do.
Also history says that those who shout we need dictator are also first to blame dictator when something go wrong no matter if it's dictator fault or not. So if you need a victim to blame since you can't blame first dev I am wrong one. I am here to make success of this coin. I have a vision how to achieve that and this vision requires active community. If there's no active community we will fail. As simple as that.
Finally, we have a safe volume on bittrex, we have growing number of masternodes, lot of tx in blockchain, active community, lot of plans. There's neither fake pumping of value, nor bag holders dumping. Orestes (and 8BIT/BTC ticker actually) proofs that current inflation does not annihilate us. Nothing wrong happens, we steady grow. Extra week or two will not change anything, but it will guarantee that we know what we do and what for. This is not what I call wasting time. Last two months were wasting time, but that story is closed since I am here.
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Well we might limit allowed to vote to those who were active in this thread before yesterdays announcement. Feedback please.
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Just to clarify how it might look like First of all we need to confirm we are owner of address having at least 112 in unspents. Let's assume our address is 8QzJ1sGCnvZss6tf9kcWJUzf5CA3iTrUAM Let's also agree that voting will be made using a message in format: Where A, B, C will be items on poll. Eg Masternode cost:
A) 1 8BIT
B) 2 8BIT
C) 3 8BIT
Block value:
A) 1 8BIT
B) 2 8BIT
C) 3 8bit
Masternode reward:
(...)
We go to debug window in our 8BIT wallet or just call API with: signmessage 8QzJ1sGCnvZss6tf9kcWJUzf5CA3iTrUAM "COST=A VALUE=A REWARD=C"
We get the reply: IBk30/RbD1Cc8JfgC6h00ujkL017khAHTWdxyxThFAkoea1mLCJO44uiX9B0bJ8saLPUk/kP4tH89SJgxwhepSU=
this is what we call a signature. This operations does nothing but signing your vote with your private key. Nothing is send, nothing is disclosed, nothing new is saved in your wallet. Only you know you issued this command and you know result of it. Result of this command is nothing but a proof you issued it. Nothing else is revealed. It's even impossible to decode anything from result. So someone who wanna verify your vote has to be informed both about your vote and that result. Then, knowing a public key (your 8BIT address), your vote and result of signing one who verify can issue: verifymessage 8QzJ1sGCnvZss6tf9kcWJUzf5CA3iTrUAM IBk30/RbD1Cc8JfgC6h00ujkL017khAHTWdxyxThFAkoea1mLCJO44uiX9B0bJ8saLPUk/kP4tH89SJgxwhepSU= "COST=A VALUE=A REWARD=C"
what will return: what will happen if bad guy change 8QzJ1sGCnvZss6tf9kcWJUzf5CA3iTrUAM to 8YHQaRMgvM3uzkGwkWCWTuUnxNoVv9WA9M he owns (without required amount of coins): verifymessage 8YHQaRMgvM3uzkGwkWCWTuUnxNoVv9WA9M IBk30/RbD1Cc8JfgC6h00ujkL017khAHTWdxyxThFAkoea1mLCJO44uiX9B0bJ8saLPUk/kP4tH89SJgxwhepSU= "COST=A VALUE=A REWARD=C"
the result will be: same will happen if anything here will be altered (an address, a signature, a vote). So, okay, we have an unbeatable way to verify that given voice is valid. The only problem is: how to tell others about voice and signature without disclosing its owner? There are many ways to achieve that. I can setup a simple website gathering anonymous inputs with those data (you can use tor/vpn/proxy whatever) or dedicated e-mail address. Finally we can start 4chan thread. Since votes are digitally signed and we agree used address wil not transfer any amount during voting period way of transmission is really unrestricted anyhow. We have to determine solution till Saturday. |
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You don't have to reveal your address. Your address will vote, not you. If you keep your coins on different addresses others will not even know which how many voices you have.
Besides it's just a proposal, I am open for other ideas.
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You do not have protection against sockpuppets here. You could require adding a 8bit address to prove ownership.
That thread is self-moderated. Also like I said we will reject values making no sense. But I am open to ideas how to harder final voting. Voices signed with address sounds good. Each 112 8BIT counts as one voice. I will also reveal that one of first things I am gonna implement is masternode voting what will make our lives easier when dealing with such cases. |
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MN COST: 888.00
BLOCK VALUE: 1.00
MN REWARD: 0.80
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STEP 4
ADJUST COIN ECONOMY
level 1
brainstorm and collecting options for incoming vote
BACKGROUND: Discussion in last weeks (too many weeks actually) about new economy model brought no (even close to) final decision. Therefore I created following solution:
- Today at 14:00 (2 PM) UTC I will open call for proposals thread. That thread will collect our proposals of items to be put into a poll. Please register your proposal in following scheme:
MN COST: N.M
BLOCK VALUE: N.M
MN REWARD: N.M for e.g. proposal to keep current model will be (missing decimal part will be considered as 0): MN COST: 112.0
BLOCK VALUE: 1.2
MN REWARD: 0.88
- Note that it is not voting yet, but I would love too see everyone participate to make sure we all understand we can't change that values often. Also, if someone else posted proposal equal or very similiar to yours, absolutely post your copy too. This is how statistics work and it's required to get most wanted options.
- Please keep that thread free of any other discussion. Discussion, arguing, convincing etc. should take place in here in main thread - here and only here. Place your proposal only once. If you change your mind, change your post or just post again - YOUR LAST POST MATTERS, previous one will be ignored.
- Trolling, FUD - disallowed. Serious proposals only. Suggestion of mn reward equal to 999999 8BIT will be rejected.
- On Saturday, at 18:00 (6 PM) UTC I will close that thread and start to extract values from set of our proposals. From all proposals, for each item I will pick 3 most popular values (I will probably use median to choose them). That's how we will get voting input. If there's someone who wish to do it instead of me - I will be happy to hear about it.
- I am open to any sugestions, changes etc. Just give a serious reason and ask other to confirm they agree.
- Once we read instructions, there we go - official Call for proposals Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1104296
Spread the word about this voting. Use hashtag #8bitvoting. Let them hear about us! |
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Thanks for your proposals. Now vote! NEWBIES VOTE BY POSTING CHOICE IN THIS THREAD (A/B/C/D/E/F/G/H)
All votes have to be also posted in this thread (just like those Newbie accounts). Sorry for that but I am afraid our poll is manipulated. So let's see who vote to check it. If you already voted - post your vote in thread too. Votes without post will be ignored.
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JUST TO LET EVERYONE KNOW WHO MIGHT BE TROLLING / SPREADING FUD HERE NOW
Not a bad price at all. What the heck, I made my money back 4x over with mtr. I'm down for a double dip, give me until tomorrow night to get my miner payout and I will buy a few thousand and stake for a while. Thanks for the amazing work you guys put in every day. Love this project!
Thank you for your continued support! Cheers, MasterTrader777 Sent 2 btc mastertrader. I should get 2666.6666666 mtr.
So that extra two funny folks from MTR family spreading FUD here also can send their crap elsewhere. We are here to win not to waste time on reading crap. Bye bye kids.
I HOPE IT'S CLEAR NOW AND WE CAN PROCEED. NEXT UPDATE WITHIN 2 HOURS
Dimitry, good point! |
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Bah. Okay. Last one. I don't recognize you as a part of community. I am fine with everyone here but you. Because you are here to take a money from this community. And you are pissed off because you still got no money. I have no respect for you and I do not care what you think about me and my activities. Bye bye.
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Bla, bla, bla. Nothing new. For me it's EOT, you can continue your bla bla bla or move on. I don't care.
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niki25 I dont care about mastertraded. I hope he will contribute something to coin. Instead he attacks again. Changing coin economy is not a thing to be done within one day by self proclaimed dictator. So I am asking community to organize, discuss, make an agreement. Meanwhile I am fixing missing things, website, explorer, social media and so on. Just to not sit back and wait forever till people will agree something. And masteretarded has problem with it? Geez.
I also made proof I know how to change coin code to new model. New github is created and sample changed has been comitted.
Finally - my voice in case of economics is equal to any other voice here. I will implement common decision. I can convice you, you can convice me. Still, my voice is one, non-deciding voice.
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niki25, indeed, I want community driven coin.
Otherwise fag like masteretarded (or any other) will beg / blackmail to pay extra BTC, otherwise he will not even lift a finger.
What actually he has been showing for last two months.
Fair enough.
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We might also take lessons learned from other coins into discussion.
Like I already mentioned CRAVE inflation is very similiar to 8BIT one.
However, their current price is approx 3x higher than 8BIT. While their coin supply is almost 4x higher! (it also explains why our inflation is not a problem now)
CRAVE MN costs 500 CRAVE. 0.4 BTC
8BIT MN costs 112 8BIT... 0.03 BTC
Most CRAVE investors believe that CRAVE is heavy undervalued... So what we should think about our prices?
With current market prices to get same entry level as CRAVE MN has, 8BIT MN should cost 1450 8BITs! 8BITs which are 4 times more rare than CRAVEs.
Since greedy masternode operators don't wanna put ASKs to exchanges that price would be too high buy few masternodes without speculative price sky rocket (I am not interested in P&D). So 888 seems more reasonable.
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Regarding STEP 3 - SOCIAL MEDIA.
We grow pretty nice on Twitter - I see your support. That's super cool.
But what's wrong with Facebook? Nobody know how to create a Fan Page?
REALLY? |
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Anyone to point anything wrong with Orestes' theory? This is what we need, constructive discussion, not just placing random numbers.
I think we have first consensus - increasing masternode cost. Anyone against? Explain why. Now, not in August.
Voting soon. |
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I think the masternodes should be a bit more expensive, to increase demand. But we still have to attract smaller investors, so price should not be too high.
I agree. and that the dev should listen to the community and not only his ideas.
I agree. Will (s)he listen to us?The masternodes are paying out too much 8bit for how little they cost to operate. =/
That's more complex topic. Two weeks ago payout for single MN was 30% higher. What's interesting, CRAVE inflation is very similiar to 8BIT one. They have a bit smaller reward with a bit shorter block time. So at the end of day amount of new coins is almost equal. And seems like this is not their problem. Best solution is to attract more investors and convince them to run own masternodes. Win-win. The only thing that makes me accepting reward reduction is thinking of 8BIT as very rare-coin it is now. So we might use reward reduction as a way to keep 8BIT being very rare coin. Now we have to consider, what's our real goal. Having very-rare-coin or having a bit less but still rare, more popular-coin. Not so easy to decide. I had a little hope that masternode cost can be increased without hardfork. Nope. Different priced masternodes will treat each other as mibehaving peers thus they will refuse to talk. It will lead to random, harmful forks. It's also a bit more sophisticated to plan such change in future (in code), neither dash nor crave did it before so such simple action requires extra development. It's because masternode capability checking has no connection with block height and it has to be changed... I have just finished making this connection. So we can change price from certain block height and set a transition period (few hours - ~500 blocks?) within which both prices will be accepted.
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