Jesus H. Christ.  I am totally astounded by the complete ignorance of many people posting here.   What the hell were you doing in math class as a kid?

THERE IS A FIXED 85M LISK BEING SPLIT PROPORTIONALLY BETWEEN A RISING NUMBER OF DONORS.  

THEIR ARRIVAL REDUCES YOUR OWNERSHIP SHARE.  

THEIR MONEY KEEPS THE VALUE OF YOUR REDUCED OWNERSHIP SHARE AT YOUR ORIGINAL DONATION VALUE.  

AS YOUR SHARE GOES DOWN,  THE SATOSHI PRICE GOES UP TO COMPENSATE.

YOU LOSE NOTHING!

And that 10% of Lisk going to core devs and consultants?  It's currently only worth about $100,000 total.   That's NOT "living large".  

To double that $100K, they've got to double the market cap of Lisk on the open market...

AND AT THAT POINT YOU WILL GET THE EXACT SAME PERCENTAGE BOOST ON YOUR HOLDINGS AS THEY DO!

Compare Lisk to what happened at the start of Ethereum:

From Vitalik:  "The highest <annual> salary is $190,000, followed by $180,000, followed by something in the 150s (I personally am not even in the top 3; mine is 137k CHF/year). For reference, Gavin Andresen's salary was ~$210,000 when he was working for the Bitcoin Foundation; it got published somewhere and I have a link in an old post on reddit. The people who earn the most per hour are probably our external security auditing partners that make $300/h."

Also from Vitalik:

"note that:
1.Most employees sent 20% of their salary into the employee ether purchase program, so the "actual" salaries are really 152k, 144k, 125k and 115k (at least, that's the way people would be interpreting it if had we simply added the employee purchases into the premine).
2.Even including that additional ether, no single person received more than 0.98% of all ether from the premine. And ETH isn't even a share or equity and doesn't come with any kind of claim on percentages of profits of anything. Ethereum.org is a nonprofit. "No founder of a startup I know" takes home that kind of upside potential."

https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/39ujsp/founder_salaries/

From a concerned investor:

...I have some concerns regarding the "fairness" of the issuance model with regards to the 12.5% cut immediately awarded to the founders. Given their privileged position within the Ethereum community they already have tremendous advantages regarding early accumulation with their knowledge of the software and ability to pre-design the most efficient mining possible. This significant advantage combined with the pre-allocated founder reward, and the additional ongoing rewards as part of the developer pool of funds, amount to a pretty significant accumulation advantage...

https://forum.ethereum.org/discussion/11/founders-and-issuance

Testing latencies as a community scattered around in an uncontrolled worldwide environment is very inefficient.   I fear such efforts will not give us the answers we need.

Once the Lisk mainchain is running, I would strongly recommend setting up a closed cluster of 16 Pi2s connected by Ethernet, all running the guestbook dapp among themselves as a Lisk sidechain.  Sixteen Pi2s is the maximum number of sidechain support nodes allowed by 0.5.5 if I remember the Crypti conversations correctly.  You could throw this whole cluster together for around $1000, maybe even run it as a Lisk-sponsored thesis project in the Aachen university environment.  

Once this test cluster is up and running, the next step is to start putting known test latency delays between the nodes, slowly increasing these delays until the sidechain delegate network finally fails.   Lots of valuable scenarios could be examined and documented in a whitepaper.  There's lots of software that is used for network testing of this sort, and even people who specialize in doing such test setups.  Maybe you could hire them as a consultant if there is no interest in doing it as an Aachen area engineering project.  See as an introduction:

http://bencane.com/2012/07/16/tc-adding-simulated-network-latency-to-your-linux-server/

http://www.linuxfoundation.org/collaborate/workgroups/networking/netem

http://wanem.sourceforge.net/

http://www.trafficsqueezer.org/

Max, controlled testing like I am proposing here would provide vital information required to convince and sell major businesses into running enterprise dapps on Lisk side chains.  These tests would show Lisk is a serious player on par with Ethereum, willing to prove our performance claims with hard facts and proven numbers on bare metal hardware.  This kind of Pi2 cluster research would be relatively cheap.  You have the financial resources now to easily do such testing.   Having a Lisk sidechain engineering test bed like this would be an invaluable resource.  The photos alone of such a testbed for use in Lisk public relations would be a justifiable advertising expense if nothing else.  I  urge you to delegate this task to some local engineering student whose progress you can easily monitor.  Have them set up such a testbed as soon as possible, so testing can begin as soon as the Lisk mainchain starts.

Ha.  Here's somebody coming at you with a crazy idea on how to spend some of that new Lisk development money you now control.  Use me as a test case on learning how to handle such fools!

Sound advice I will try to heed.

I was a little surprised to see a public key along with a passcode and Lisk account number from my XCR deposit.  Is this public key the same as the one in discussions going like "please send me 1 XCR so I can get a public key" ?  Will we need to do a "first transaction" in our new Lisk accounts in a few weeks to generate a new public key, or is the one assigned at the ICO site a good public key forever?

Go to http://ico.lisk.io and use the exchange there.

A great accomplishment!  And to celebrate, I'm gonna drag back up a post of mine from page 89 that nobody responded to at all.  

The subject is latency: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1346646.msg14038854#msg14038854

I've been thinking about this some more.  The post above discusses my desire to say something specific in the whitepaper on the maximum ISP latency acceptable for running a Lisk mainchain node.  (I am worried we are going to have a lot of disappointed Active Delegates when they realize they can't run a Lisk mainchain node from home on their spare PC and they actually have to rent a server at Vultr for $5 per month).  I also ask for confirmation that sidechains can run at slower block times that the mainchain, and if that alone would allow the use of slower, high-latency ISPs.

These are important and hard questions that nobody really knows the answers for yet.  One of my first goals when Lisk goes live with 0.5.5  is to set up some cheap sidechain nodes and run some timing experiments to get some answers.  I want to give my future sports dapp customers great service!

However, I've been thinking about this some more and I have more questions.  So here goes.

First off, are we going to start Lisk on version 0.5.5 software and not 0.5.4?

Second, what is the specific reason we are going to launch Lisk with a 10 second blocktime?  Sure, that's the number Crypti worked hard to achieve.  Sure, it is technically cool and impressive.  Sure, it was originally intended to allow ultrafast merchant confirmations.   But seriously....why?  We are changing many things in Lisk that were originally done a different way in Crypti.  Why not its blockchain speed?

Lisk is not promoting itself as a "coin for commerce" the way Crypti started out, so we don't claim fast merchant confirmations as a major selling point for Lisk.  Also, most of the Lisk blocks are going to be empty - way above 90%, I'll bet  -  and piling empty blocks on at 10 second intervals produces nothing but blockchain bloat.  Sure, Lisk has an efficient blockchain structure compared to Bitcoin or Ethereum and so has less bloat per block.  And Lisk can handle large blockchain files just fine.  The Crypti chain is doing fine at over 2 million blocks in length after two years.  

But....if we launch with a Lisk block time of 20 seconds instead of 10 seconds, there would be no merchants saying we've caused them headaches by doubling the confirmation time.  We would also cut our bloat growth rate by 50%.   We would also have twice as long before bloat becomes an issue of concern... which it will, eventually, and we have to have the inevitable blockchain pruning discussion.   So why not go from 10 seconds to 20 seconds for Lisk blocktime?

And once we start saying a Lisk blocktime of greater than 10 seconds is OK - why not set the official Lisk blocktime as necessary to maximize high-latency home ISP participation by Active Delegates?  Maybe that's a blocktime of 15 seconds, maybe that's 30 seconds, maybe that's a full minute of 60 seconds.  Logically, a 60 second blocktime should be able to handle 6 times higher latency delays than a 10 second blocktime, right?

All I'm saying is that Lisk is an effort to start over and correct many of Crypti's deficiencies.  Possibly the technically impressive 10 second blocktime may be one of those deficiencies.  We have a few weeks before this Lisk train leaves the station and goes rolling full spead down the track.  We should talk about just how fast that Lisk train is going to go.

Crypti is accepted because Crypti supporters are why Lisk is starting off with a solid 0.5.5 code base instead of pure vaporware, plus a beautiful wallet GUI, many software tools such as a blockchain explorer / DPos delegate monitor, and many other tangible assets to launch this coin.  A fixed price 1300 satoshi swap of Crypti for Lisk is the Lisk Foundation's way of welcoming Crypti holders into the next step of what they started years ago.

If the Lisk Foundation holds 35M Crypti, that means others are choosing to hold on to 65M Crypti for many reasons.  It's not a dead coin and it's not a dead market.


Well, there's that, too.    You certainly have a much better party if you serve good wine instead of sour vinegar.

#2489, actually.

There is a third possibility... it's called mathematics, one of humanity's greatest achievements.

"In Lisk, the value of your contribution invested in the ICO is held constant.  Your number of Lisk to be allocated in the genesis block goes down as more donors show up, and the new money they bring in causes the value of each individual Lisk to go up and compensate.  You do not lose or gain any money as a result of your participation in the ICO." 

The Lisk press release is being run on Jim Cramer's The Street website.  Expect traffic.

http://www.thestreet.com/story/13476009/1/lisk-raises-over-1200-bitcoin-during-the-first-week--open-source-dapp-custom-blockchain-platform.html

At Crypti, the "percentage fee" was always intended to be a way to compensate the 101 Active Delegates for their out-of-pocket server costs.  In some of my really old posts I went through the math in excruciating detail to show that a percentage fee for Crypti would never come close to covering server costs and I argued for a fixed fee or even no fee.  

Now here we are at Lisk, with the percentage fee gone like I promoted, replaced by a minimal fixed fee per transaction like I also promoted - and a new 5 Lisk paid per block to a forging delegate when his turn comes around every 101 blocks.  So...the Lisk forging block reward at 5 Lisk is 50 times the Lisk transaction fee at 0.1 Lisk - and it's conjured out of thin air as new inflationary coin!  

Crypti tried percentage fees on a non-inflationary coin, Lisk is gonna try inflationary block rewards.  Gotta pay the piper somehow, I guess...

Don't ever say that Lisk is nothing but a perfect clone of Crypti.  Look under the hood, there's lots of differences between Crypti and Lisk.  

Which was the main reason for the fork.  

Ha!  That's my cue to post the spreadsheet links again...now with new USD pricing!

"In Lisk, the value of your contribution invested in the ICO is held constant.  Your number of Lisk to be allocated in the genesis block goes down as more donors show up, and the new money they bring in causes the value of each individual Lisk to go up and compensate.  You do not lose or gain any money as a result of your participation in the ICO."  


How Many Lisk You Will Receive For One Bitcoin (BTC)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1iOEdaRnBmSAO5miW7xYheeYUgo5wL9l9BONw6x21nQg/edit?usp=sharing

How Many Lisk You Will Receive For One Crypti (XCR)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GwWKK7bpjYTxtQRIq_l2xiKI9rEOpTU1oTt0q3C6Mc8/edit?usp=sharing

The Satoshi / USD Price For One Lisk  

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Q2MJ25_bK5Yi60FYohYCUEkujUtL5c0P1dOdlDMPMBI/edit?usp=sharing

Um, yeah, that pretty much sums it up.  You kinda had to be there to understand why it was the right thing to do.

There will be a Lisk genesis block that creates all coins for all users at the same instant.  As soon as the Lisk Foundation nodes go online and start propagating the Lisk blockchain using the genesis block as Block 1, anybody with the GUI wallet will instantly be able to access their coins starting on Block 2.  Blocktime for Lisk is 10 seconds, so the plan is for everybody to have access to their coins within 10 seconds of blockchain launch.

I am pretty sure they will not launch the blockchain in secret.    Knowing Max, there will be a countdown clock.

Community nodes will start taking over from Foundation nodes after a week or so.

As always, I am not a Lisk insider, and I depend on Max to correct any mistakes I have said here.

Dapps will pay a nominal fee to register a side chain on the main Lisk blockchain.  After that small registration fee, there are no continuing sidechain payements to the Lisk Foundation.  As usual, correct me if I'm wrong, Max.

As sidechain apps charge for the services they are providing, they will probably ask for Lisk as their payment, since that is easiest to do (although writing for example Bitcoin processing directly into a Lisk app is theoretically possible).   Sidechain users will have to purchase Lisk at an exchange to use those sidechain services.   This will result in upward buying pressure for Lisk as a coin.  

Take for example any future Lisk sports betting dapps.  Lisk would effectively be the casino sports room tokens used among gamers to settle their wagers.  Those tokens would have to be purchased on an exchange, and could be later "cashed out" at an exchange for other currencies such as BTC and eventually USD.

Vegas, baby.

Actually, that is an old number.  The current value is $0.01099 and slowly climbing as the satoshi value slowly climbs.  Keep track here:

The Satoshi Price For One Lisk

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Q2MJ25_bK5Yi60FYohYCUEkujUtL5c0P1dOdlDMPMBI/edit?usp=sharing

I've modified this spreadsheet to also show the price of 1 Lisk in USD (US dollars).

The difference between the "1422 BTC" and the "2000 BTC" is the difference between "actual and "equivalent" BTC (in dark orange) shown on this spreadsheet:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Q2MJ25_bK5Yi60FYohYCUEkujUtL5c0P1dOdlDMPMBI/edit#gid=1360974801

The difference between these two is the additional value in the platform besides just the pile of fresh new BTC that is stacking up.  The currently-existing Crypti 0.5.5 codebase (previously paid for by XCR donors), all the functional currently-existing GUI wallet / blockchain explorer tools / etc,  Max and Olivier working full time as the Lisk Foundation, the goodwill of an enthusiastic community that is in the hundreds and still growing - these did not pay BTC and yet count as real tangible assets.   That's the difference between the 1400 and the 2000 numbers.  The difference is the estimated value of intangibles.

However, the 2000 number only pays for 85M Lisk and not the 15M Lisk held back by the Lisk Foundation - currently Max and Olivier, but that will grow.  The correct comparison to make on the spreadsheet is the implied market cap (which includes all 100M Lisk) vs. the dev-cash-on-hand (which is only the donated BTC).

As I have said over and over, any money you put into the Liso ICO does not change in value as more and more donors pile in.  At the end of the ICO, market forces take over.  The idea that the entire cryptocurrency market will discover Lisk and buy into it during a four-week ICO is very hard for me to swallow.  We have only hundreds of investors in the Lisk ICO.  There will be tens of thousands of people who discover Lisk on the exchanges when it gets there.  I believe they will buy in at a premium, and that premium is your profit.

As bitcoinuserz notes, ETH trades 35,000 BTC PER DAY and Lisk has taken in 1400 BTC in TWO WEEKS.  Yes, there is a lot of justified excitement here in Liskland, but we are still only in a very tiny corner of a very big world.  

It's all about perspective.  I am the very center of my world.  I am a tiny speck in the cosmos.

I would be happy if we met ETH's current X25 performance in the market.  Given Lisk's current market cap of around $1M, that means Lisk would "only" have to be valued on the market at $25M (vs. ETH's current value of $588M) to be considered an equal financial success to Ethereum.

Let me repeat, Lisk can equal Ethereum's current return-on-investment (ROI) by becoming "just" a $25 million coin.  Such a success would currently place Lisk in a three-way tie with Doge and Dash for 8th place market cap.

Now if you think (as I do) from the list of advantages above that Lisk can equal not only Ethereum's market performance, valued at X25, but also equal Ethereum's technical performance, valued at $588 million....

...then you have a true winner - in baseball, an out-of-the-park home run.

And I still predict the first person to write an 0.5.5 Lisk sports betting dapp, running decentralized on 100 CHIP computers costing only $900 total and scattered around the world beyond the ability of governments to shut down, that person will become a billionaire.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/new-york-sues-get-draftkings-fanduel-return-money-n489021