Are you really a bear -- that is you have 0 BTC holdings or even are short? As one of the most resilient bears here I'd like to help you out there: 1. global fiat currency uncertainty, loss of confidence and inflation
The same argument can be made for gold, land and food, bitcoin on the other hand is dependent on the internet which depends on the economy. Yes, well not food it spoils and has a low value to density. And gold and land ( http://www.sj-r.com/top-stories/x394118844/Farmland-prices-still-rising) have seen tremendous appreciation. Interesting that you would lump BTC in with this group but be a bear... 2. growing bitcoin utilization
3. a really small BTC market cap compared to its potential
Essentially the same thing, open to interpretation. There are strong points that the market cap is already where it belongs, essentially for somebody to accept bitcoin one must first be convinced it is proftable for them. Sure, markets have efficient price discovery. The market cap may be where it belongs today... but its growing like the internet in the 90s. 4. a much more efficient and inexpensive means to transfer value then traditional systems
Transactions fees will be too high to do micropayments if the market cap rises. Bitcoin was always considered a experiment instead of the holy grail of money by satoshi. There is a gigantic untapped market for international "mini-payments". Payments from 1 to 500 dollars (say). Paypal, etc. add a significant fee, (don't forget the PP currency conversion fee). 5. block reward halving
Might already be priced in. 6. bitinstant and other growing financial services companies
The debit-card might hit a road-block. Other than that I consider them sub-par. Bitpay uses some nasty XSS and the rest isn't really used. Payment processing should be open sourced and free of charge, decentralized with the bitcoins actually directly sent to the merchant. Payment processors should provide third party signed transactions as well as exchanges. It's all a big what-IF so far. I didn't mention the debit-card. If that is delayed, I'm sure the good people at bitinstant or bitpay will think of something else... 7. recognition of bitcoin's legality in Finland (was it finland?)
Yeah somebody mentioned it somewhere over there, just like it is recogniced by some EU bureaucrats. You are probably refering to the bitpay press release I know. So far there are no official publications which say one thing or the other. I agree with you here; bitcoin has not had a judicial branch recognize its legality. But AFAIK, neither has chocolate chip cookies... that is, if no applicable law exists, things are generally considered legal until shown otherwise. |
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Newbies, when you read these forums please understand that lots of these guys post to try to spark a dump to get cheap coins!
On the bull side we have:
1. global fiat currency uncertainty, loss of confidence and inflation
2. growing bitcoin utilization
3. a really small BTC market cap compared to its potential
4. a much more efficient and inexpensive means to transfer value then traditional systems
5. block reward halving
6. bitinstant and other growing financial services companies
7. recognition of bitcoin's legality in Finland (was it finland?)
On the bear side we have:
1. Failure of obvious scams (pirate) and clearly illegal secondary services (stock markets) whose only relationship to bitcoin is that they use it. They could just as easily have used another currency.
2. The one-time-makes-a-trend observation that "bitcoin does better in the summer"
Sure we might see some downward wiggle, but the trend is up!
Anyway, sheeple thx for dumping your coins! But next time think before you dump :-). You are more valuable as a happy owner of Bitcoin than as a means of value transfer from your pocket to mine... :-)
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yes, my issue is a bull (or bear) trending market means that the average of exchange A - exchange B over time is non-zero, in other words the opportunities tend to be in the same direction. So I have to move the BTC and USD back around which is instant for the BTC but takes days for the USD.
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Gold silver is down so it is not a run away from fiat... markets basically neutral to down.
So...why the rocket today?
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why aren't they active?
I have a few reasons, the main one being that I can't trust most of the brokers besides MtGox for the amounts I want to trade. They are by far the most professional. Its difficult and expensive it is to operate a good bitcoin brokerage. Profit is hard to come by unless you have massive trading volume and unless you have a large trading volume, your prices will never lead meaning fewer customers. Its a double edged sword which is very unfortunate. This is compounded by the fact that serious IT security is very expensive and only affordable by the largest brokers. I won't even get started on that topic...  Yes, my non-quantitative assessment is that the risk of holding money on these exchanges outweighs the profit that can be extracted from arbitration. Also, in a bullish trending market, the portion of the cycle time the $ spends in fiat is significant -- you miss out on the BTC price appreciation which may be significantly more then the arb profit since moving the fiat takes days. |
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This would apply to most totalitarian states, not just Argentina:
Would the bitcoins to be bought wits pesos not effectively have to be mined IN Argentina? I know there's no physical requirement, but also most people outside of Argentina would have no use for the pesos, so the pesos price of btc would be quite high outside the country, leading to an opportunity for a local miner.
Can argentinians exchange pesos for dollars and send the dollars to Mtgox?
Yeah, this seems to be the key issue that will hit any country that does not have BTC in the wild when TSHTF. Greece, etc will probably also have this issue. But BTC could trickle in for payment of IT services... especially since the event might make the labor rates very attractive in the global market. |
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wall is Looking shallow; Im defiantly getting ready to dump all my coins while we are still over 12. Im guessing we will be under 11.50 in under 24h
looking to buy huh?  |
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It doesn't sound like you think the askwall of 2 days ago was his... that wall was well done. The manipulator held the price below 12 and made several buys when asks filled below it by removing his wall, buying and replacing. And now that it is down we've rallied 60-70 cents in 2 days...
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New poll: How many people want to change their answer because they initially misread the question?
Yes plz. Yeah delete this entire thread and try again. It seems like many people who answered no meant they would just keep on with their client, and many people who answered yes meant the same thing (assuming that the unchanged client would not be the official bitcoin one). The poll should have 3 options. A. Stay with the current reward scheme B. Move to the new reward scheme C. Quit bitcoin entirely |
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better hit the buy button Spek... money moved based on the conf is hitting the exchanges! :-)
Already did zerg;) Bought at the second "glitch" at 11.95$/BTC. Nice price, hope you got lucky as well! @ all: Bitcoin Weather forecast just in! I got some, but the rest of the $ is stuck in Gox when I wanted to shift it to get a cheaper price. I should have just bought at Gox... :-( |
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better hit the buy button Spek... money moved based on the conf is hitting the exchanges! :-)
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I just saw a brief pop up to 12.08 on the gox ticker and btccharts does not show it. So I am thinking that those two blips are not the currency conversion ticker bug. Unfortunately, I was not capturing the data when it happened.
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On BTCcharts I'm seeing 2 buys above 12 that seem to go beyond the 10k btc askwall. How did that happen? Are they cases where Mr Manipulator removed his askwall, bought up coins and then put the wall back? Or is there some other explanation?
it is a mtgox bug. Or a feature, depending on how you look at it. Apparently, mtgox includes trades in other currencies and converts them to USD. That's weird, because when I look at the raw Mt Gox streaming data, I see that it contains the currency for each trade... |
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The fact that RMS gave his speech at a Bitcoin conference is a very significant promotion for Bitcoin.
Stallman putting his stamp on bitcoin removes the last of my reservations about the technical end of the protocol. not being in your field, just how big is Stallman? That's a very hard question to answer. He's the grandfather of open source software, a movement which has revolutionized the way software is developed. At the same time he does not "come off" well to straight-laced corporate types. Read up about him... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDxMJQLXmBEBut the fact that the FSF still does not accept Bitcoin makes me go hmm.... Actually, he is the father of the Free Software movement. You could say that Free Software spawned Open Source, and call him the grandfather of open source, which is sorta true. But it also totally missed the point of everything he's been trying to say for the last couple of decades. To be very clear, he doesn't give a crap about open source software, except when it is also Free Software, and the people that advocate OSS are doing the world a disservice by ignoring the most important stuff (freedom). Yes, that is in fact why I said grandfather. People have taken his baby and run in directions he disagrees with. But Free Software is open source, and also Open Source Software (TM) whether he wants it to be or not! :-) Thanks guys for correcting me WRT the distinction between the FSF and EFF!!! |
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On BTCcharts I'm seeing 2 buys above 12 that seem to go beyond the 10k btc askwall. How did that happen? Are they cases where Mr Manipulator removed his askwall, bought up coins and then put the wall back? Or is there some other explanation?
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The fact that RMS gave his speech at a Bitcoin conference is a very significant promotion for Bitcoin.
Stallman putting his stamp on bitcoin removes the last of my reservations about the technical end of the protocol. not being in your field, just how big is Stallman? That's a very hard question to answer. He's the grandfather of open source software, a movement which has revolutionized the way software is developed. At the same time he does not "come off" well to straight-laced corporate types. Read up about him... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDxMJQLXmBEBut the fact that the FSF still does not accept Bitcoin makes me go hmm.... |
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miscreanity asked me months ago on this thread when i would capitulate and turn bullish on gold. i told him here that if gold can get over the February high of 1793 then i'll admit i'm wrong. you all are so close so you'd better buy the hell out of gold just to prove me wrong.
i don't think it gets there.
Cypher say it ain't so..  The end of an era... LOL... I've been digging around for a gold bubble in february year 1793! Coincidentally, it turns out to be a really interesting year. The 1st US coinage was struck then. But as you all know, the price was pegged at 20 bucks... |
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So far I havent heard of anything newsworthy from the conference. I think nothing else will come off it. Some nice lectures for the attendees, yes; but nothing world changing.
Disclosure: I solld all my bitcoins just now
I think you had the wrong impression the the purpose of this conference. Big announcements at confs happen in more mature industries as the marketing dept tries to create "buzz". Without even going, this conf seemed more like a hackerspace meetup -- where ideas and partnerships are germinated not announced. We should have been trying to figure out whether finanicial industry reps went and if so who they work for... |
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