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1121  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][LISK] Lisk | ICO | Decentralized Application & Sidechain Platform on: March 02, 2016, 11:42:56 AM
the value of Ethereum (1 ETH) was 0.30 USD on launch

Forget the current price of lisk, just buy it  Grin

LISK HOLDS THE FOLLOWING ADVANTAGES OVER ETHERIUM:

Javascript language simplicity vs Solidity language complexity

100,000+ JavaScript programmers vs. few Solidity programmers

Single hash generated to secure blockchain in one blocktime vs. trillions of valid but discarded hashes generated to secure blockchain in one blocktime

Cooperative, efficient blockchain generation vs. competitive, wasteful blockchain generation

Stable roundtable clockwork forging vs. exponentially growing free-for-all mining

Dapps on individual sidechains vs. dapps on bloated mainchain

Max of 101 cheap $35 Pi2 / $9 CHIP microcomputers needed for sidechain backbone vs. large, unlimited numbers of expensive GPU systems needed for mainchain backbone


Sidechain dapps permanently free vs. mainchain perpetual "gas" payments required


WHICH OF THESE TWO SOUNDS BETTER POSITIONED TO MEET THE UPCOMING CHALLENGE OF A BILLION-ITEM IPv6 "Internet-of-Things" ?

LISK IS CURRENTLY 0.3000 / 0.01137 = 26.4 TIMES CHEAPER THAT ETHERIUM WAS AT ITS LAUNCH

ETH IS CURRENTLY SELLING AT 7.60 / 0.30 = 25.3 TIMES HIGHER THAN AT ITS LAUNCH
1122  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][LISK] Lisk | ICO | Decentralized Application & Sidechain Platform on: March 02, 2016, 11:15:11 AM
Right now, 1 LISK = 0.0089 USD

the value of Ethereum (1 ETH) was 0.30 USD on launch

How did you manage to calculate the value of 1 lisk?

THESE CHARTS ARE UPDATED SEVERAL TIMES PER DAY.  FORMULAS USED ARE VISIBLE, JUST CLICK ON A CELL.

How Many Lisk You Will Receive For One Bitcoin (BTC)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1iOEdaRnBmSAO5miW7xYheeYUgo5wL9l9BONw6x21nQg/edit?usp=sharing

How Many Lisk You Will Receive For One Crypti (XCR)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GwWKK7bpjYTxtQRIq_l2xiKI9rEOpTU1oTt0q3C6Mc8/edit?usp=sharing

The Satoshi Price For One Lisk

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Q2MJ25_bK5Yi60FYohYCUEkujUtL5c0P1dOdlDMPMBI/edit?usp=sharing

CURRENT LISK UNIT PRICE AS I POST THIS IS 2525 SAT = 0.01137 USD AT COINMARKETCAP.COM BITCOIN PRICE OF 435.03 USD / BTC

435.04 (USD / BTC) * 0.00002525 (BTC / LISK)= 0.01137 (USD / LISK)
1123  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][LISK] Lisk | ICO | Decentralized Application & Sidechain Platform on: March 01, 2016, 12:36:07 PM
List of Ethereum Dapps and their status, http://dapps.ethercasts.com/ . 157 projects total, though a few show abandoned status, many more are concept with varying update periods up to over a year. About half appear to be active with demos or live with GNU or MIT license repositories. Also a number of stealth projects.
What's your point of sharing this info ?
I think it's showing that DAPPS are the future and a JavaScript based language will attract even more developers.
Very interesting.  Wonder how many of these we could duplicate in Lisk?  I wonder how many of these developers might switch to / invest in Lisk?  Thanks, Mike!

The organization of that website sucks.  Here's the data in table form.  Data, beautiful organized data.

This is actually a very important list. Almost everybody in the whole world trying to develop a dapp right now is listed here.  We want these people working on Lisk.

I wonder if anybody would be crazy enough to accumulate the email addys for all these dapp developers and contact them about joining the Lisk ICO?

 Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

(Max, you'd better be working up some text....)

EDIT: THESE COLUMNS MAY NOT ALIGN CORRECTLY IN YOUR BROWSER....SORRY


4G Capital Smart Contracts
Adept
Airlock
Allied Peers
Ampliative Art
Ascend
atomic-swap
AuditDog
Augur
Avatar
Balanc3
Bit Vote
Blockapps
Blockchain Backpack
Blocknet
BoardRoom
Browser-Solidity
btcrelay
Cetas
ChainGraph
chess_contracts
Chronos
ClimateCoin
Colony
Community-Currency
content
Cosmo
Croesus
Crowdesto
Crypto Swartz
cryptocoinwatch
CryptoRPS
CubeSpawn
cyber•Fund
Dactuary
DAOwars
Dapp Catalog
dapp pricefeed
Dapp Store
Dapper
Dapple
dappsys
DappTorrent
Decentralized Twitter
Dereo
DigixGlobal
Dynamis
eDollar
Embark
Epok
Ether.Camp
Ether.Fund
EtherAPIs
Etherboard
EtherCrawler
Etherdice
EtherDoubler
Ethereum Alarm Clock
Ethereum Computation Market
Ethereum Prediction Market
Ethereum Pyramid
ethereum-datetime
EthereumWall
EtherEx
etherforum
Ethergit
Etheria
EtherID
EtherListen
EtherMarket
Etheroll
Etherparty
Etherplan
EtherPoker
EtherPot
EtherScan
EtherScripter
EtherSlots
EtherWall
EthHypeDns
ethID
Ethos
EyePi
Foodway
Forums
FreeMyVunk
Frozeth
Golem
GroupGnosis
Grove
Guarante eMarket
HitFin
HonestDice
Icebox
insurETH
iudex
Jaakme.in
JobMarket
Kindom
KingOfTheEtherThrone
KYC-chain
Lazooz
LightWallet
LΞTH
Maker / Dai
MetaMask
meteor-embark
MintChalk
Monegraph
movETH
NotarEth
Occams Run
Oraclize
OrgFactory
Otonomos
PirateChest
PointNurse
Pokereum
Populus
PowerBall
PROFΞTH
Project Basil
Project Groundhog
Project Mati
proof-of-individuality
Provenance
PublicVotes
Raikoth
RANDAO
SafeMarket
Serpent.py
Shapeshift Bot
sleth
slock.it
smart-exchange
SmartK
Solether
Spore
Spritzle
String
studbook
Swarm
Syng
Taxeme
TinyOracle
TokenEscrow
Truffle
TrustDavis
TrustlessPrivacy
Universal ĐApp
Venture Equity Exchange
Verbatm
Vevue
Wallet Dapp
WeiFund
WeiLend
Whisper Chat Client
Erick Murimi
John Cohn
John Gerryts
Bitsilk / Elias Haase
Adrian Onco
Louis-Pierre Morin
Zack Hess
Roman Plášil
Jack Peterson, Joey Krug, etc
d11e9
Chris Lundkvist
Aaron Bale
Kieren James-Lubin
Dr. Blue
Dan Metcalf & Arlyn Culwick
Nick Dodson
chriseth & d11e9
Joseph Chow
Algorythmix
Konstantin Kudryavtsev
bigmug
Maxime Quandalle
Dennis Peterson
AttaAtta
Rogelio Segovia
d11e9
Nick Dodson
Anthony Eufemio
Sam Collins
Ethan Buchman / Vlad Zamfir
Joris Bontje
CryptoRPS
James Jones
Dima Starodubcev
Vignesh Sundaresan
ConsenSys / Peter Borah
Fabian Vogelsteller, Alex van de Sande
Nick Dodson
Tim Coulter
Jarrad Hope
Nexus Dev
Nexus Dev
?
Jahn Bertsch
Dereo
Anthony Eufemio & co
Joshua Davis
nexus@makerdao.com
Iuri Matias
Bill Schafer / Kobi Gurk
Roman Mandeleil
J.R. Bédard
Péter Szilágyi & Jeffrey Wilcke
unknown
Peter Borah
vnovak
Satoshi
Piper Merriam
Piper Merriam
Atomrigs
ethererik
Piper Merriam
LPMitchell
caktux
Matias Insaurralde
ConsenSys / Roman Mandeleil
fivedogit
Alexandre Naverniouk
Kobi Gurkan
Iuri Matias / Ryan Casey
James Britt
Lisa Cheng, Whit Jack
Donald McIntyre
ConsenSys / Julian Pittleman
Aakil Fernandes
Matt Tan
mode80
ConsenSys / AF Dudley
Aleš Katona
slothbag
Argyris Xafis
d11e9
Bryan Hill
Yonatan S
ConsenSys
R. Tyler Smith
Kobi Gurkan
Piotr Zieliński
ConsenSys / Martin Köppelmann
Piper Merriam
Bruno Ricardo Ferreira
Patrick Salami
etherapps.info
Christian Lundkvist
Thomas Bertani, Kristina Butkute, Francesco Canessa
Alex Beregszaszi, Thomas Bertani
Vaughn McKenzie
Ultra Koder
ConsenSys
Kieran Elby
Edmund John
Shay Luf
ConsenSys / Chris Lundkvist
Inzhoop
Maker
Aaron Davis
Chris Hitchcott
James Alexander Levy
Chris Tse
Joris Bontje
Maran Hidskes
d11e9
Thomas Bertani
Paul Mumby
Han Vertraete
d11e9
Cyrus Maaghul
Oladapo Ajayi / Patrick Mazzota / Juan Pastas
Piper Merriam
Peter Borah
Roberto Valenti
Harsh Patel
Conrad Barski
Harsh Patel
d11e9
Jessi Baker & Jutta Steiner
Dominik Schiener
moridinamael
Youcai
Aakil Fernandes
Jarrad Hope
Alex Beregszaszi
Joris Bontje
Christoph Jentzsch
Marek Kotewicz
Harm Bavinck
Francesco 'makevoid' + KristinaB
Denis Erfurt
Patrick Salami
Dominic Williams
Andres Junge
Daniel Nagy
Jarrad Hope
Jeffrey B. Petersen
Alex Beregszaszi
Alex Beregszaszi
Tim Coulter
Joris Bontje & Jarrad Hope
sam@trustlessprivacy.com
d11e9
Ryan Tate, Sean Pollock
Ciaran Murray
Thomas Olson
Fabian Vogelsteller, Alex van de Sande
Nick Dodson
Massi Terzi
Fabian Vogelsteller
Donors can use the application to fund small businesses in Kenya using 4G Capital's transactional system.
IBM/Samsung IoT Project
Electronic Security
P2P Insurance
A decentralized, cooperative and empowering art community
A decentralized encrypted payload delivery system
Atomic cross-chain trading
SW audit repository
Decentralized Prediction Market
distributed profile registry
Triple-entry accounting
Voting with time on the blockchain
Middleware - API
Valve Item Economy on Ethereum
Inter-blockchain application platform
Board election and voting
Browser based solidity contract compiler & runtime
A bridge between the Bitcoin blockchain & Ethereum smart contracts
Decentralized KYC and Credit rating function on blockchain
Blockchain visualizer
Chess
Trusted timestamp on top of ethereum
Coins for those who offset carbon
Companies for the 21st Century
Community currency with zero reserve mutual credit and adjustable parameters
p2p community content platform
Meteor dapp for building and vetting solidity contracts
Decentralized advertising platform build on ethereum
Crowdfunded political movements
Incentivized content curation
Crypto currency datafeed
Rock-Paper-Scissor game with a twist
Modular Manufacturing
Make digital investments comprehensible, accessible, easy and safe
Decentralized actuary built on Ethereum
AI game for devs
Dapp Catalog
(Gold) price feed
Marketplace for Dapps
High Level EVM Assembly meta-programming using Python
smart contract package manager and build tool
Solidity Contract System Framework
Decentralized BitTorrent Catalog
Microblogging on the Ethereum blockchain
Decentralized over-the-air television streaming network
Gold storage
Insurance Dapp
Stable Cryptocurrency
Framework for Ethereum DApps
Remittance service with plans for a decentralised exchange, microloans, crowdfunding.
Blockchain explorer
Ethereum Resources
Micropayment platform for generic API calls
Combining a Ponzi-scheme with the MillionDollarHomepage
A dungeon crawler and challenge market based on Ethereum
Provably fair and escrowed gambling
The first doubler with verified contract
Schedule contract calls
Verifiable off-chain computation for ethereum contracts.
Prediction market
Ethereum Pyramid Contract
Ethereum Date and Time tools
Decentralized unmoderated public message board
Decentralized Exchange
An experimental / proof of concept / distributed forum built on top of Ethereum
Blockchain explorer
The first-ever decentralized virtual world
Ethereum Name Registrar
Realtime Ethereum transaction visualizer.
Decentralized Marketplace
Ether gambling Dapp game / eth casino
Smart Contracts deploying the Cloud
Smart Investment Plans on Ethereum!
P2P Poker powered by Ethereum
Provably Fair Lottery
Blockchain explorer
Visual Smart Contract Editor
Casino Game
GUI desktop wallet for Ethereum
Resolve Hyperboria/CJDNS ipv6 addresses via etherid.org contact
Decentralised Password Vault
An Ethereum Browser
Crowdsourced medicine
Enables real-time multi-dimensional traceability along the food chain
Micropayment Threaded Discussions
Monitize your video game junk
Ethereum tools for the offline machine
Distributed computation
Prediction market
Fast, efficient, queryable storage for ethereum contracts
Peer-to-peer marketplace for guarantees
Bilateral settlement of OTC derivatives in 15 seconds
Completely fair dice game
A cold storage solution for Ether
P2P flight insurance
smart contract based reputation system
Decentralised music steaming service
Decentralized job market of the future for humans and IoT
Community management & formation
Will make you a King or Queen, might grant you riches, and will immortalize your name.
Proof of KYC Requirements
Ridesharing
Lightweight JS Wallet for Node and the browser
LΞTH is the first hybrid mobile app to manage an Ethereum wallet
Stable Cryptocurrency
MetaMask brings Ethereum to your web browser
Streamlined Ethereum Integration for Meteor
In-browser smart contract building / publishing
a digital artwork registry and marketplace
Decentralized Uber
Ethereum based notary service
All things being equal (50/50) only The Brave will win
Provable honest oracle service
DAO Automation platform
Blockchain-Chartered Companies
p2p magnet discovery
Decentralized Healthcare
Decentralized Poker
Ethereum Contract Development Framework
"Powerball"-style lottery
A smart contracts ecosystem for a resource-based digital economy
Decentralised Vulnerability feed management
Social Network
Decentralized KYC and Credit rating function on blockchain
anti-sybil token
Product Origin Tracking
A publicly verifiable Voting System, powered by Smart Contracts
Governance experiment
A DAO working as RNG of Ethereum
P2P Marketplace
A Python Implementation of the Serpent Programming Language for Ethereum
Simple Ethereum contract to transfer Ether to Bitcoin
Slot Machine
If you can lock it, we will let you rent, sell or share it.
Exchange service
Make your NDA Smart
Autonomous Electrical Energy Entities - Prototype +EntityConcept
Simple package manager for dApp development based on ethereum and IPFS
Fractional investment platform for Ethereum
Autonomous & open financial cloud for financial assets
Tinder for horses
Distributed File Storage
open source mobile ethereum client
A component of the Resilience taxation system
Simple data provider toolkit for Ethereum
Contract for running an escrow service for Ethereum token-contracts
Development framework for Ethereum
Reputation system
Interoperable electronic health records
A Universal Interface for contracts on the Ethereum blockchain
Decentralized Autonomous Ventures (DAVs)
A marketplace for employment credentials
Bringing Google Street View to life
Ethereum Wallet
Crowdfunding Platform
P2P Lending
Group chat
Concept
Demo
Concept
Unknown
Concept
Work In Progress
Work In Progress
Working Prototype
Working Prototype
Working Prototype
Concept
Unknown
Working Prototype
Concept
Concept
Stealth Mode
?
Working Prototype
Working Prototype
Working Prototype
Abandoned
Abandoned
Concept
Working Prototype
Work in Progress
Work in Progress
Working Prototype
Stealth Mode
Unknown
On Hold (pending more infrastructure)
Demo
Live
Concept
Concept
Concept
?
Demo
Working Prototype
Live
Work in Progress
Live
Working Prototype
Stealth Mode
Working Prototype
Concept
Concept
Work In Progress
Concept
Live
Unknown
Live
Working Prototype
Working Prototype
Working Prototype
Demo
Live
Live
Live
Working Prototype
Demo
Live
Working Prototype
Live
Working Prototype
Work in Progress
Working Prototype
Live
Live
Live
Work In Progress
Working Prototype
Concept
Concept
?
Working Prototype
Live
Abandoned
Stealth Mode
Live
Live
Concept
Working Prototype
Concept
Unknown
Stealth Mode
Concept
Working Prototype
Unknown
Live
Live
Concept
Concept
Live
Live
Work in Progress
Working Prototype
Work in Progress
Working Prototype
Stealth Mode
Working Prototype
Concept
Concept
Working Prototype
Working Prototype
Work In Progress
Work in Progress
Working Prototype
Working Prototype
Unknown
On Hold (pending mobile & whisper)
Live
Working Prototype
Live
Stealth Mode
Concept
Working Prototype
Concept
Concept
Working Prototype
Work In Progress
Stealth Mode
Working Prototype
Demo
Working Prototype
Work in Progress
Concept
Working Prototype
Concept
Work in Progress
Working Prototype
Work In Progress
Working Prototype
Working Prototype
Working Prototype
Working Prototype
Concept
Working Prototype
Working Prototype
Demo
Concept
Demo
Work In Progress
Working Prototype
Work in Progress
Working Prototype
Work in Progress
Working Prototype
Demo
Work In Progress
Live
Stealth Mode
Concept
Concept
Demo
Working Prototype
Work in Progress
Demo

1124  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][LISK] Lisk | ICO | Decentralized Application & Sidechain Platform on: March 01, 2016, 11:03:24 AM
List of Ethereum Dapps and their status, http://dapps.ethercasts.com/ . 157 projects total, though a few show abandoned status, many more are concept with varying update periods up to over a year. About half appear to be active with demos or live with GNU or MIT license repositories. Also a number of stealth projects.
What's your point of sharing this info ?
I think it's showing that DAPPS are the future and a JavaScript based language will attract even more developers.
Very interesting.  Wonder how many of these we could duplicate in Lisk?  I wonder how many of these developers might switch to / invest in Lisk?  Thanks, Mike!
1125  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][LISK] Lisk | ICO | Decentralized Application & Sidechain Platform on: February 29, 2016, 06:55:29 PM
MILESTONE REACHED:

LISK IS NOW A  $1,000,000 USD MARKET CAP COIN

WITH $600K IN CASH-ON-HAND FOR DEVELOPMENT EFFORTS.
1126  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][LISK] Lisk | ICO | Decentralized Application & Sidechain Platform on: February 29, 2016, 04:59:27 PM
Is there not any target price for lisk ICO?  This is too much for me. I think next time i participate in an ICO, i want one where the ICO stops when they have a set amount of BTC invested.
What advantage do you see for yourself to be in an ICO with a fixed and limited target?  
Take a break shill. Your shilling for this scam is just getting too pathetic.
It was an honest question, I really don't understand his reasoning.  Or yours.
1127  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][LISK] Lisk | ICO | Decentralized Application & Sidechain Platform on: February 29, 2016, 04:56:46 PM
The last few weeks have been very informative on how DPoS works under stress....I set up the rocket delegates to replace the non-performing delegates - Cryptikit and Olivier's help made this much, much easier, 48 new delegates in all....At Max's suggestion, Boris added the ability for a delegate to see which accounts voted for him to the Crypti API. This, along with the new Lisk forging rewards, opens up the possibility for delegates to do profit sharing with those who vote for him. What I have in mind is how I originally thought DPoS would operate with Bitshares and should have run with Crypti. I would like to offer to split the delegate earnings with the people who vote for my delegates based on how much they have in the Lisk accounts they vote from on a running basis and how much they dilute their votes by voting for other delegates. So this would be truly a PoS type system where stake holders receive a return on their holdings with a portion going to the delegates they choose to represent them. This will also incentivize people to hold Lisk since it can offer them a return.

Mike, you've done us all a favor, more so than most people realize...so thanks!

Did you have any gotchas with the latest version of Crypti Docker?  My node was forging great but it wouldn't display the client at Port 8040.  So I took it offline to reload it and never got it back up.  Every time I loaded my local IP address in the whitelist area of the config.json file, but when I flipped the forging switch in the Port 8040 client it would say I was coming from an unauthorized IP.  I finally gave up when I saw your massive effort come online.   I guess I'm done forging Crypti.

I did not realize we could do forging co-ops like you suggest.  As you say, this will become very popular and attract votes.  But then...how does the forger earn his server fees back if he has to give them out to those who voted for him?

DPoS is a great system philosophically and even theoretically.  But it never achieved true, actual operation at Crypti.  Lisk is going to have its own challenges with DPos when the time comes, that will be fascinating to watch.

Hey, folks, I'm MalReynolds.  When the time comes, I would appreciate your vote to become a DPoS Active Delegate of Lisk.
1128  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][LISK] Lisk | ICO | Decentralized Application & Sidechain Platform on: February 29, 2016, 03:18:14 PM
Is there not any target price for lisk ICO?  This is too much for me. I think next time i participate in an ICO, i want one where the ICO stops when they have a set amount of BTC invested.

What advantage do you see for yourself to be in an ICO with a fixed and limited target?  In Lisk, the value of your contribution invested in the ICO is held constant.  Your number of Lisk to be allocated in the genesis block goes down as more donors show up, and the new money they bring in causes the value of each individual Lisk to go up and compensate.  You do not lose or gain any money as a result of your participation in the ICO.   What more could you want?
1129  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][LISK] Lisk | ICO | Decentralized Application & Sidechain Platform on: February 29, 2016, 01:25:42 PM
Lisk - Changing the way you DAPP

Please take a look at our newest video, explaining why Lisk is so great. Along with the video we released a big PR package this week as well.

Beautiful job, Max.  Every ETH holder needs to see this....NOW!
1130  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][LISK] Lisk | ICO | Decentralized Application & Sidechain Platform on: February 29, 2016, 12:46:40 PM
I have a 8 ms ping to google's server ( ping 8.8.8.8 ), also speedtest.net says my ping is 8 ms to their testing server, would this be enough? ( am hoping so, 8 ms ping response time to Google's server is incredibly reliable).....

Good question.  I don't know the answer.  The whole point of my "latency" post a few pages back was to request that some actual numbers / standards on this topic get put in the Lisk whitepaper.  I hope that happens.  



I just finished checking the Cripti's block explorer (https://cryptichain.lisk.io/delegateMonitor) and I see that not one single delegate there has an approval rating greater than 30% (29.x being user Max) if that were to be true, then a single member will not be able to mine the full 150,000 Lisks per month himself, but at least about 30% of that if that delegate is active 30% of the time.  30% approval rating is low, but at the same time Max' Uptime is 96% could be that since Cripti is a dead coin things there its not running that optimal anymore or perhaps is was always this way.  Maybe it gets to be different here with Lisk.

I am confused about how you are confused.  The "approval rating" is the % of total Crypti that have been voted in favor of that delegate, and will be the same for Lisk.   A "30% approval rating" for the top rated Crypti Active Delegate means that 70% of Crypti coins were never used to vote for anybody.  The "approval rating" has nothing to do with "activity level".

Forging rewards are NOT 150K Lisk per MONTH as you say; technically it's 5 Lisk per Active Delegate every 17 minutes when their turn comes up to add a block to the Lisk blockchain.  So if a delegate stays in the group with the top 101 votes for the full year, that level of forging will equal a total of 150K Lisk PER YEAR per delegate, not per month.  A delegate gets the same payment whether they stay for a full year as the top-voted Delegate or if they stay for a full year as a  bottom-ranked Active Delegate only one vote away from being downgraded to a Standby Delegate.

Max's 96% uptime has nothing to do with Crypti being a dead coin, which it isn't.  Somehow you are thinking like a competitive Bitcoin miner again instead of a cooperative DPoS forger.  Max was / is not in competition with anybody as a Crypti Active Delegate Forger.  More Crypti forgers showing up would have no impact on Max's uptime.  That is purely a measurement of his own server host provider service level.

Another thing.  If you want more detail about DPoS delegates, also read this earlier post of mine from several weeks ago:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1346646.msg13832600#msg13832600
1131  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][LISK] Lisk | ICO | Decentralized Application & Sidechain Platform on: February 29, 2016, 11:08:05 AM
Question: bought on the first day of ico.
Is there a way to collect the 15% bonus?

You bonus will appear automatically when you get your Lisk in the genesis block.
1132  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][LISK] Lisk | ICO | Decentralized Application & Sidechain Platform on: February 29, 2016, 10:46:35 AM
What happened at Crypti is that standby delegates were suddenly voted up one day only to discover not only was there no running node server, the person himself had long since left the party and was nowhere to be found.

Wait, a delegate that isn't running a node can be voted in?  So, you mean that I can sign up as a delegate and not setup any node, keep my server down in order to save on electricity, etc and then when I get notified that I have been voted up then I will have my chance to turn on my server?  In the other hand, if I get voted in and I am not running a server, will I lose my chance right away and the next delegate in stand-by will get the vote?.

At Crypti, a delegate that wasn't running a node could be voted from Standby to Active status.  With the current Crypti / Lisk blockchain explorer written by Olivier, there is no indication whether there is a server running or not behind a Standby Delegate.  So at Crypti when you voted up a Standby Delegate, you didn't know if there was a computer or even a still-active person behind that Standby Delegate.  This was less than ideal, of course, to say the least.  One problem was that there wasn't even an email address on file to tell somebody they had just been voted to active status and were now expected to stand up a server node.  So basically these new Active Delegates would sit there not forging after they had been voted up and everybody would wait a few days to give them a chance to get their act together before voting them down and trying somebody else.

Look, DPoS is not a magic bullet.  It's hard to do it right, and it takes lots of people cooperating and communicating to make it work.  The most frustrating part in DPoS is seeing that there is a problem like an idle Active Delegate, and being personally powerless to fix that problem, and having to wait for votes to show up to fix it.  Crypti had a good system in place but not enough people involved to really make it work.  Lisk will add lots more people to the mix than Crypti ever had, and significant forging rewards to Active Delegates that Crypti never had.  Are these two changes gonna be enough to make DPoS Active Delegate forging work perfectly and smoothly right from the start?  My bet is no way.  But Max and Olivier (and many others including me) care enough to keep slogging through what ever problems show up and keep Lisk and its DPoS forging going.    

You don't want 5 people running 20 nodes each in secret.  You don't want 5 people running 20 nodes openly, either, if there are other good candidates who could take some of those slots as Active Delegates.  But despite this ideal, you can certainly show up and say you've got 20 servers ready to go if you want.  Who knows how people will vote?  Maybe you will get them all on line, maybe only some, maybe only one on line.  It all depends on the votes.

The reality of the situation is that two people, Max and Olivier, will be setting up the 101 initial Lisk Foundation servers to get the Lisk blockchain going.  Max and Olivier will also control around 15% of the Lisk votes in the beginning with the Lisk Foundation funds.  This is a huge amount of centralized voting power.

So I see that its not favorable for one single individual to be running like 20 servers because this will be seen as the network being less secure.  Okay, so here is my question, instead of one individual running the 20 servers physically in his house under the same ISP IP address, would it then be favorable if this same individual were to run 20 different virtual servers on 20 different data centers and IP addresses?  I know its the same individual running the operation, but because each node is on different locations, if something bad happens to node A, node B, C, etc continues to run, I dont see how the network would be less secure despite these nodes having been created by a single individual.  

I would be tempted just to run two servers in my house instead of one, just two delegates, would Max and Olivier know that these two servers are under the same IP address?  Or, do you know (going by the Cripti experience) if IP addresses gets passed  over the network and becomes public knowledge or at least knowledge to anyone whatsoever.  I am not asking this question because I am planning to run lots of servers "Secretly" here on my house, I fully understood that this would be view as making the network less secure and because of this I understand and would be refraining from attempting to run lots of servers here physically in my house (so I guess I could say bye bye to what I was thinking -- purchasing 101 $9 computers - even though if I get approval from the Admins I am more than willing to do it since my house is a very secure place and there is nothing to worry about here and with me)

Running lots of servers from many locations under a single mastermind makes the servers themselves more physically secure and more reliable, but still requires greater trust in the mastermind.   What if we go from 101 Lisk Foundation nodes to five community masterminds running 20 nodes each, and these five guys are Ethereum supporters who have organized a setup to gain control over Lisk?  What if these five guys all shut their servers off simultaneously?  The name of the game in blockchain building is trust no one.  If you've got to trust somebody, then give as small an amount of trust as possible to as many people as possible, and hope that a majority are worthy of that trust.  

Any attempt by you to get more than one node going may receive votes, but it is contrary to the decentralization goal is that Lisk is trying to achieve.  I'm not saying that to discourage or demonize you, just to lay the cards out on the table.  If you want to try for the votes to run multiple nodes, go for it.

I actually think spending $900 to buy 100 CHIP computers and dispersing these worldwide for free to volunteers that want to run the Lisk backbone is a great idea.  I have even suggested this very idea to Max as a way to organize and especially control the switchover from Foundation to Community delegates.  He is concerned about getting dedicated people that would actually use such a handout for its intended purpose, and rightly points out an Active Delegate needs to self-declare their intentions and fund their own node as partial proof of their worthiness.  

But check my post about "latency" a few pages back on page 89.  Just because you want to host a $9 Lisk node at home doesn't mean you will be able to do so.  Lisk, like Crypti, has a 10 second block time.  This requires some fast communication between 101 computers spread worldwide.  If your home internet connection is "slow" in its ping latency, you'll never run a node from there no matter how capable the computer is that you have.

Check out the Crypti blockchain explorer, this shows what the Crypti experience is.  Especially check out "Delegate Monitor" under "Tools".  

https://cryptichain.lisk.io/

Note that the bottom third of the Active Delegates have only received less than 100 XCR in forging fees and all have 13.4% approval (votes).  These are all "rocket name" nodes put up by one "mastermind" (one of the Crypti Foundation members)  to overcome the drag being produced by a bunch of idle Active Delegates who had been voted up from Standby and never put a Crypti node up.   As you can see, even masterminds have been unable to get the Crypti network at "100% online / 100% uptime".  It's harder and more trouble than you might think at first.

But let me end on an optimistic note - DPoS does work and Lisk will succeed!
1133  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][LISK] Lisk | ICO | Decentralized Application & Sidechain Platform on: February 29, 2016, 09:28:38 AM
Dude, relax.  NOBODY maintains 100% uptime, not at Crypti, not at Lisk, not anybody.  

It's a lot more important to participate routinely in the community so your name is known and people have some trust in you and will recognize your name on a ballot.  Having a single perfect number, especially one that gets reset every so often, is a poor way to choose somebody.  Plus, poor runtime numbers are how you decide to vote somebody DOWN and OUT of the top 101 delegates.  You certainly don't want to hide the facts about a person's runtime with a periodic reset.  Also, a poor active delegate gets replaced by a standby delegate with 0% uptime, so what good is voting by uptime numbers at that point?

Being a Delegated Proof of Stake (DPoS) delegate is a lot more about campaigning under your own good name than it is focusing on one number.

Ok, I am beginning to understand how this delegate stuff more or less is going to be working.

So, it would be a bad idea for a person to create say 20 different names for 20 different delegates as the hassle wont be worth it to going to the chat rooms or forums to present all these 20 different names as different persons to vote for them (too much work).

But, if the same person decides to run 20 delegates, all under the same name then the community would only vote for one of them, and not for all of them, even if the campaign happens to be a nice one because I assume the community doesn't want one single person running like 20 delegates.

Just like Bitcoin mining where we all went crazy and purchased at first lots of GPU's, then LOTS of USB Block Erupters (because with just one we weren't making enough money), I would want to be able to run more than one delegate to make more money and also hope that all of my delegates gets voted in the the 101 spots.  IF I show up to the community and I announce that I have 20 servers up and ready to delegate, would the community be fine with it?

Also, do we get some type of recompense for being a "stand-by" delegate?

Are Stand-by delegates immediately summoned up for "work" as active delegates if any of the 101 delegates were to become suddenly offline? Or is there a time frame that the community waits before calling that node "dead" and putting the stand-by delegate to work (active).

Lisk is most secure when 101 individuals are running 101 separate Active Delegate nodes and this should be our goal.  You don't want 5 people running 20 nodes each in secret.  You don't want 5 people running 20 nodes openly, either, if there are other good candidates who could take some of those slots as Active Delegates.  But despite this ideal, you can certainly show up and say you've got 20 servers ready to go if you want.  Who knows how people will vote?  Maybe you will get them all on line, maybe only some, maybe only one on line.  It all depends on the votes.

The reality of the situation is that two people, Max and Olivier, will be setting up the 101 initial Lisk Foundation servers to get the Lisk blockchain going.  Max and Olivier will also control around 15% of the Lisk votes in the beginning with the Lisk Foundation funds.  This is a huge amount of centralized voting power.  Unless they specifically say they will refrain from voting, I believe they will exercise these votes as required to get the community Lisk Active Delegates off to a good start.  I personally am 100% certain they will vote in a way to replace Lisk Foundation nodes with individuals as much as possible instead of "forging farms" run by a single mastermind.  This is just how Max and Olivier think, they believe in decentralization of Lisk as a primary goal, which is a good thing.

The rest of the delegate votes (85%) are going to be split over a much larger group of people (hundreds if not thousands of people) who get their votes from the 85M Lisk being distributed.  It will be very hard to get these people to vote at all, much less in a coordinated manner.  The most common feeling, in my opinion, will be "why bother to vote, my share is so small it won't matter, I'm just in this to make some money on this coin, not get involved in a community".  The situation will be much different than it was in Crypti, which never really had a crowd of small-holdings voters in control of picking the active delegates.  Lisk could very well be a mess in the beginning that trails off to apathy in the future where very few people vote at all after the initial spurt of interest in launching Lisk.  This potential for a mess is why I believe Max and Olivier will step in at the beginning to organize the community active delegate setup and get it on its feet.  

Your questions about standby delegates are critical and important ones.  In year one of Lisk, an Active Delegate can make as much as 150K Lisk.  Somebody that remains a Standby delegate for a year and never gets enough votes to go Active will make zero Lisk.   So...what is the motivation for them to keep a Lisk node server ready to go on hot standby if they are suddenly and unexpectedly voted up?  What happened at Crypti is that standby delegates were suddenly voted up one day only to discover not only was there no running node server, the person himself had long since left the party and was nowhere to be found.  

Here's a side thought.  The Bitcoin miner "get-rich-quick" mentality of fielding as much gear as possible to get as big a piece of the pie as possible - that attitude really isn't what Lisk is about.  Lisk is about cooperation to further the community, not competition to further one person.  You would help Lisk much more if you took a deep breath, purged yourself of your dreams of being a dragon sitting atop a big pile of coins, and tried to think of a different was to apply that drive and energy that would help Lisk as a whole instead of you personally.  For example, use the time you would spend running 20 nodes to learn JavaScript and go write a dapp!

Bottom line, the DPoS voting / forging part of Lisk is just as important as the price swings of the coin and further development of the code.  Nobody really knows yet how well the Lisk DPoS delegate system is really going to work as a social system.   Honestly, we are off in uncharted territory.  Lisk is different from Crypti in that it pays Active Delegates significant rewards to motivate them.  Whether this will be enough to make the whole system run smoothly will be very interesting to watch.

 
1134  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][LISK] Lisk | ICO | Decentralized Application & Sidechain Platform on: February 29, 2016, 08:09:44 AM
In regards to running a delegate, lets say I want my delegate(s) to have a 100% uptime status, if I have to take down a deletage to update its corresponding software will that affect my uptime "status", or will there be fair grace period allowing me sufficient time to update my core software without loosing my 100 % uptime status.

Also, lets assume that I experience a brief downtime from my ISP which would affect my uptime % and get reduced from 100% down to maybe 99.x%, assuming no further downtime occurs, will my uptime status get reset back to 100%?  If so, in how many days?

If you take down a delegate, uptime % will decrease. So to answer, yes it will affect your uptime "status". As far as I know there is no grace period.

Same thing with your ISP issue, your uptime % will suffer and it does not reset. The best you can do is keep it up as much as possible and try to reach that 99.9%

https://lisk.io/documentation?i=lisk-whitepaper/LiskWhitepaper#3-consensus

What? No grace period and it doesn't reset?  You are making me nervous now specially since 2 days ago my Verizon FiOS connection decided to take a 6 hours "vacation" after 1:30AM due to a storm.  So you are telling me that if my uptime status were to change from 100% to 99 or 98% that I will never have a 100% uptime status for this delegate EVER AGAIN? I think that it should reset every months to make it fair.

Also, I see users very hesistant to taking down their servers to update the software if it means that they get to perpetually lose their 100% uptime status.  So, if Admin decides to perform a mandatory update for the software the delegates are running, that means that users lose their 100% status.

Also, once I loose my 100% status, even at no fault to me (say there was a mandatory Lisk software update that I HAVE to install), so I lose 100% status forever, and a new user that comes online and is 100% uptime will get the favor of the community, so all those Raspbery Pi 2 computers I would be running would be a waste.

Question: Would having a redundant internet connection in case if the first one fail cause me to still loose the 100% uptime status?  Example: My Fios Connection goes down, therefore My backup Cable ISP connection kicks in automatically maintaining my computers up, since this switch over took lets say 5 seconds to complete because I would have a watch dog monitoring in realtime, would that still cause me to loose my 100% uptime status?  The only issue I could see with this is all of a sudden running under a new public IP address.

Note for admin: If there is not any provisions for "forgiving" a delegate for briefly going down, then you should implement one, implement a 30 days reset, that way everyone that wants to be seen as 100% uptime always gets that change of showing responsibility.


Dude, relax.  NOBODY maintains 100% uptime, not at Crypti, not at Lisk, not anybody.  

It's a lot more important to participate routinely in the community so your name is known and people have some trust in you and will recognize your name on a ballot.  Having a single perfect number, especially one that gets reset every so often, is a poor way to choose somebody.  Plus, poor runtime numbers are how you decide to vote somebody DOWN and OUT of the top 101 delegates.  You certainly don't want to hide the facts about a person's runtime with a periodic reset.  Also, a poor active delegate gets replaced by a standby delegate with 0% uptime, so what good is voting by uptime numbers at that point?

Being a Delegated Proof of Stake (DPoS) delegate is a lot more about campaigning under your own name than it is focusing on one number.
1135  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][LISK] Lisk | ICO | Decentralized Application & Sidechain Platform on: February 28, 2016, 10:49:58 PM
Can I ask, what does the "LISK" mean ? Is that an acronym for something?

Lightweight Integrated Sidechain Kontroller.
1136  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Latency Considerations For Lisk on: February 28, 2016, 03:31:34 PM

Back at Crypti we were in contact with Lerner once, regarding the Proof of Time algorithm....

- DPoS makes the whole system much simpler, therefore easier to maintain, control and enhance.
- DPoS also allows us constant 10 second blocks, which will be critical in decentralized applications.
- With DPoS everyone who is active within the community and therefore has some popularity has the chance to become a forger. With PoS if you aren't rich you can forget it to forge.

There are more advantages. But the 10 second blocks really were the important factor for us. Personally I think, DPoS is just a method to achieve decentralization. Now this is done and running perfectly, we won't put much work into this anymore. At Lisk we will concentrate on the decentralized applications and user experience.

This leads into a technical area I would like to get out in the open and discuss more.  

We have shown at Crypti that the 0.5.4 code can run very well on microcomputers like Pi2 and even CHIP.  Olivier is even currently running a backbone Crypti node on a Pi2 from his home ISP.  However, having a computer that can execute the 0.5.X code quickly enough is only part of the picture.  As I recall, Litoshi tried to run a Crypti backbone node on a much-higher-than-Pi2-capability home PC from his home ISP.  He failed to sync with the rest of the network due to the "high" latency of his home ISP.  The key to Olivier's Pi2 node success is that his home internet service provider (ISP) has an unusually "low" latency.  

From these experiences, the impact and relationships of network latency on Lisk capabilities needs to be quantified, so people have realistic expectations on what their Lisk DPoS backbone nodes and their Lisk dapp sidechain nodes can accomplish.

In general terms, in the upcoming Lisk network there will be 101 DPoS nodes.   During one blocktime, all of these different nodes must exchange some fixed number of messages W between them in some algorithmic sequence X to write the next block.  How fast these messages can be exchanged determines how fast the overall block time can be.  To get the desired Lisk backbone blocktime of 10 seconds, you need a certain maximum allowed message transfer time Y and thus a certain maximum allowed network latency Z.   What are these WXYZ numbers for the baseline Lisk 10 second blocktime?  I believe this all needs to be described in a technical section of the Lisk whitepaper.

For Lisk sidechains, I believe we need to go beyond the Lisk mainchain case.  We somehow need to allow the use of higher latency internet communications links for sidechains, and allow Lisk sidechain users to increase their blocktimes and set them as required to compensate for high network latency and still work correctly.   There needs to be a formula established for Lisk sidechain users so they can say "My maximum network latency is X, so I have to set my sidechain blocktime at Y or greater".

So, questions.  What is the maximum ISP network latency that would still allow a DPoS delegate to run a Lisk node from their home on a Pi2 or CHIP?   Will Lisk 0.5.X have adjustable sidechain blocktimes allowing the use of home ISP connections to support Lisk sidechains running on networks of Pi2s/CHIPs, no matter how high the latency of the home ISP communcation links connecting them?
1137  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][LISK] Lisk | ICO | Decentralized Application & Sidechain Platform on: February 28, 2016, 01:30:49 PM
Im lucky if i still have 50 lisk from my 1 btc when this ico is done  Cry

The rising Satoshi price keeps your declining holdings of Lisk at a constant value of the 1 btc you originally donated.
1138  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][LISK] Lisk | ICO | Decentralized Application & Sidechain Platform on: February 28, 2016, 01:05:57 PM
Curious why Lisk is using dPoS instead of normal PoS

In a pure PoS system, the richest coin holders that set up a forging node get most of the rewards from running those nodes.  With DPoS, anybody can set up a forging node no matter how much or how little of the coin they hold, as long as they pay (for Lisk) a 100 coin start fee.   Under DPoS, a poor coin holder / node runner gets the same rewards as a rich coin holder / node runner.  Thus there is incentive for poor coin holders to run a good node to increase their coin holdings.  Since there's a lot more poor coin holders than rich ones, the pool of potential node runners is much bigger.  This is a Good Thing.
1139  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][LISK] Lisk | ICO | Decentralized Application & Sidechain Platform on: February 28, 2016, 12:41:06 PM
Anybody heard of Rootstock?  It apparently is some kind of open source project to bring Ethereum-like smart contracts to the Bitcoin blockchain.   Their effort is literally only a week old; their first blog post was only two days ago.  Their team seems to be a half dozen guys from Argentina.  They have gotten press coverage from eight other guys.

http://www.rootstock.io/#1

Max, I have a couple of thoughts about this. 

Maybe contact these guys to make them aware of Lisk?  Two of them (Zaldivar and Eidelman) claim to be proficient in JavaScript.  Maybe there is a way they could use Lisk and a Lisk Dapp to launch their Rootstock project?  It would be a plus for Lisk if we could claim to be the underlying tech used to add new capability to Bitcoin itself.  Also, if their Rootstock project doesn't take off in the future, maybe they would consider working on Lisk. 

Another idea...the guys that wrote an article on Rootstock could very well be willing to write an article on Lisk.  More free publicity, perhaps. 


1140  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][LISK] Lisk | ICO | Decentralized Application & Sidechain Platform on: February 28, 2016, 02:58:00 AM
LISK will be unable to serve any real world use cases as well. There is simply no market for these digital excrements in the context of real world business processes. LISK ... social and commercial importance in global level is precisely zero.

I still predict that the first person using Lisk to field a worldwide sports betting dapp will become a billionaire.
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