the value of Ethereum (1 ETH) was 0.30 USD on launch
Forget the current price of lisk, just buy it LISK HOLDS THE FOLLOWING ADVANTAGES OVER ETHERIUM:Javascript language simplicity vs Solidity language complexity
100,000+ JavaScript programmers vs. few Solidity programmers
Single hash generated to secure blockchain in one blocktime vs. trillions of valid but discarded hashes generated to secure blockchain in one blocktime
Cooperative, efficient blockchain generation vs. competitive, wasteful blockchain generation
Stable roundtable clockwork forging vs. exponentially growing free-for-all mining
Dapps on individual sidechains vs. dapps on bloated mainchain
Max of 101 cheap $35 Pi2 / $9 CHIP microcomputers needed for sidechain backbone vs. large, unlimited numbers of expensive GPU systems needed for mainchain backbone Sidechain dapps permanently free vs. mainchain perpetual "gas" payments requiredWHICH OF THESE TWO SOUNDS BETTER POSITIONED TO MEET THE UPCOMING CHALLENGE OF A BILLION-ITEM IPv6 "Internet-of-Things" ?LISK IS CURRENTLY 0.3000 / 0.01137 = 26.4 TIMES CHEAPER THAT ETHERIUM WAS AT ITS LAUNCHETH IS CURRENTLY SELLING AT 7.60 / 0.30 = 25.3 TIMES HIGHER THAN AT ITS LAUNCH
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List of Ethereum Dapps and their status, http://dapps.ethercasts.com/ . 157 projects total, though a few show abandoned status, many more are concept with varying update periods up to over a year. About half appear to be active with demos or live with GNU or MIT license repositories. Also a number of stealth projects. What's your point of sharing this info ? I think it's showing that DAPPS are the future and a JavaScript based language will attract even more developers. Very interesting. Wonder how many of these we could duplicate in Lisk? I wonder how many of these developers might switch to / invest in Lisk? Thanks, Mike! The organization of that website sucks. Here's the data in table form. Data, beautiful organized data. This is actually a very important list. Almost everybody in the whole world trying to develop a dapp right now is listed here. We want these people working on Lisk. I wonder if anybody would be crazy enough to accumulate the email addys for all these dapp developers and contact them about joining the Lisk ICO? (Max, you'd better be working up some text....) EDIT: THESE COLUMNS MAY NOT ALIGN CORRECTLY IN YOUR BROWSER....SORRY 4G Capital Smart Contracts Adept Airlock Allied Peers Ampliative Art Ascend atomic-swap AuditDog Augur Avatar Balanc3 Bit Vote Blockapps Blockchain Backpack Blocknet BoardRoom Browser-Solidity btcrelay Cetas ChainGraph chess_contracts Chronos ClimateCoin Colony Community-Currency content Cosmo Croesus Crowdesto Crypto Swartz cryptocoinwatch CryptoRPS CubeSpawn cyberFund Dactuary DAOwars Dapp Catalog dapp pricefeed Dapp Store Dapper Dapple dappsys DappTorrent Decentralized Twitter Dereo DigixGlobal Dynamis eDollar Embark Epok Ether.Camp Ether.Fund EtherAPIs Etherboard EtherCrawler Etherdice EtherDoubler Ethereum Alarm Clock Ethereum Computation Market Ethereum Prediction Market Ethereum Pyramid ethereum-datetime EthereumWall EtherEx etherforum Ethergit Etheria EtherID EtherListen EtherMarket Etheroll Etherparty Etherplan EtherPoker EtherPot EtherScan EtherScripter EtherSlots EtherWall EthHypeDns ethID Ethos EyePi Foodway Forums FreeMyVunk Frozeth Golem GroupGnosis Grove Guarante eMarket HitFin HonestDice Icebox insurETH iudex Jaakme.in JobMarket Kindom KingOfTheEtherThrone KYC-chain Lazooz LightWallet LΞTH Maker / Dai MetaMask meteor-embark MintChalk Monegraph movETH NotarEth Occams Run Oraclize OrgFactory Otonomos PirateChest PointNurse Pokereum Populus PowerBall PROFΞTH Project Basil Project Groundhog Project Mati proof-of-individuality Provenance PublicVotes Raikoth RANDAO SafeMarket Serpent.py Shapeshift Bot sleth slock.it smart-exchange SmartK Solether Spore Spritzle String studbook Swarm Syng Taxeme TinyOracle TokenEscrow Truffle TrustDavis TrustlessPrivacy Universal ĐApp Venture Equity Exchange Verbatm Vevue Wallet Dapp WeiFund WeiLend Whisper Chat Client | Erick Murimi John Cohn John Gerryts Bitsilk / Elias Haase Adrian Onco Louis-Pierre Morin Zack Hess Roman Pláil Jack Peterson, Joey Krug, etc d11e9 Chris Lundkvist Aaron Bale Kieren James-Lubin Dr. Blue Dan Metcalf & Arlyn Culwick Nick Dodson chriseth & d11e9 Joseph Chow Algorythmix Konstantin Kudryavtsev bigmug Maxime Quandalle Dennis Peterson AttaAtta Rogelio Segovia d11e9 Nick Dodson Anthony Eufemio Sam Collins Ethan Buchman / Vlad Zamfir Joris Bontje CryptoRPS James Jones Dima Starodubcev Vignesh Sundaresan ConsenSys / Peter Borah Fabian Vogelsteller, Alex van de Sande Nick Dodson Tim Coulter Jarrad Hope Nexus Dev Nexus Dev ? Jahn Bertsch Dereo Anthony Eufemio & co Joshua Davis nexus@makerdao.com Iuri Matias Bill Schafer / Kobi Gurk Roman Mandeleil J.R. Bédard Péter Szilágyi & Jeffrey Wilcke unknown Peter Borah vnovak Satoshi Piper Merriam Piper Merriam Atomrigs ethererik Piper Merriam LPMitchell caktux Matias Insaurralde ConsenSys / Roman Mandeleil fivedogit Alexandre Naverniouk Kobi Gurkan Iuri Matias / Ryan Casey James Britt Lisa Cheng, Whit Jack Donald McIntyre ConsenSys / Julian Pittleman Aakil Fernandes Matt Tan mode80 ConsenSys / AF Dudley Ale Katona slothbag Argyris Xafis d11e9 Bryan Hill Yonatan S ConsenSys R. Tyler Smith Kobi Gurkan Piotr Zieliński ConsenSys / Martin Köppelmann Piper Merriam Bruno Ricardo Ferreira Patrick Salami etherapps.info Christian Lundkvist Thomas Bertani, Kristina Butkute, Francesco Canessa Alex Beregszaszi, Thomas Bertani Vaughn McKenzie Ultra Koder ConsenSys Kieran Elby Edmund John Shay Luf ConsenSys / Chris Lundkvist Inzhoop Maker Aaron Davis Chris Hitchcott James Alexander Levy Chris Tse Joris Bontje Maran Hidskes d11e9 Thomas Bertani Paul Mumby Han Vertraete d11e9 Cyrus Maaghul Oladapo Ajayi / Patrick Mazzota / Juan Pastas Piper Merriam Peter Borah Roberto Valenti Harsh Patel Conrad Barski Harsh Patel d11e9 Jessi Baker & Jutta Steiner Dominik Schiener moridinamael Youcai Aakil Fernandes Jarrad Hope Alex Beregszaszi Joris Bontje Christoph Jentzsch Marek Kotewicz Harm Bavinck Francesco 'makevoid' + KristinaB Denis Erfurt Patrick Salami Dominic Williams Andres Junge Daniel Nagy Jarrad Hope Jeffrey B. Petersen Alex Beregszaszi Alex Beregszaszi Tim Coulter Joris Bontje & Jarrad Hope sam@trustlessprivacy.com d11e9 Ryan Tate, Sean Pollock Ciaran Murray Thomas Olson Fabian Vogelsteller, Alex van de Sande Nick Dodson Massi Terzi Fabian Vogelsteller | Donors can use the application to fund small businesses in Kenya using 4G Capital's transactional system. IBM/Samsung IoT Project Electronic Security P2P Insurance A decentralized, cooperative and empowering art community A decentralized encrypted payload delivery system Atomic cross-chain trading SW audit repository Decentralized Prediction Market distributed profile registry Triple-entry accounting Voting with time on the blockchain Middleware - API Valve Item Economy on Ethereum Inter-blockchain application platform Board election and voting Browser based solidity contract compiler & runtime A bridge between the Bitcoin blockchain & Ethereum smart contracts Decentralized KYC and Credit rating function on blockchain Blockchain visualizer Chess Trusted timestamp on top of ethereum Coins for those who offset carbon Companies for the 21st Century Community currency with zero reserve mutual credit and adjustable parameters p2p community content platform Meteor dapp for building and vetting solidity contracts Decentralized advertising platform build on ethereum Crowdfunded political movements Incentivized content curation Crypto currency datafeed Rock-Paper-Scissor game with a twist Modular Manufacturing Make digital investments comprehensible, accessible, easy and safe Decentralized actuary built on Ethereum AI game for devs Dapp Catalog (Gold) price feed Marketplace for Dapps High Level EVM Assembly meta-programming using Python smart contract package manager and build tool Solidity Contract System Framework Decentralized BitTorrent Catalog Microblogging on the Ethereum blockchain Decentralized over-the-air television streaming network Gold storage Insurance Dapp Stable Cryptocurrency Framework for Ethereum DApps Remittance service with plans for a decentralised exchange, microloans, crowdfunding. Blockchain explorer Ethereum Resources Micropayment platform for generic API calls Combining a Ponzi-scheme with the MillionDollarHomepage A dungeon crawler and challenge market based on Ethereum Provably fair and escrowed gambling The first doubler with verified contract Schedule contract calls Verifiable off-chain computation for ethereum contracts. Prediction market Ethereum Pyramid Contract Ethereum Date and Time tools Decentralized unmoderated public message board Decentralized Exchange An experimental / proof of concept / distributed forum built on top of Ethereum Blockchain explorer The first-ever decentralized virtual world Ethereum Name Registrar Realtime Ethereum transaction visualizer. Decentralized Marketplace Ether gambling Dapp game / eth casino Smart Contracts deploying the Cloud Smart Investment Plans on Ethereum! P2P Poker powered by Ethereum Provably Fair Lottery Blockchain explorer Visual Smart Contract Editor Casino Game GUI desktop wallet for Ethereum Resolve Hyperboria/CJDNS ipv6 addresses via etherid.org contact Decentralised Password Vault An Ethereum Browser Crowdsourced medicine Enables real-time multi-dimensional traceability along the food chain Micropayment Threaded Discussions Monitize your video game junk Ethereum tools for the offline machine Distributed computation Prediction market Fast, efficient, queryable storage for ethereum contracts Peer-to-peer marketplace for guarantees Bilateral settlement of OTC derivatives in 15 seconds Completely fair dice game A cold storage solution for Ether P2P flight insurance smart contract based reputation system Decentralised music steaming service Decentralized job market of the future for humans and IoT Community management & formation Will make you a King or Queen, might grant you riches, and will immortalize your name. Proof of KYC Requirements Ridesharing Lightweight JS Wallet for Node and the browser LΞTH is the first hybrid mobile app to manage an Ethereum wallet Stable Cryptocurrency MetaMask brings Ethereum to your web browser Streamlined Ethereum Integration for Meteor In-browser smart contract building / publishing a digital artwork registry and marketplace Decentralized Uber Ethereum based notary service All things being equal (50/50) only The Brave will win Provable honest oracle service DAO Automation platform Blockchain-Chartered Companies p2p magnet discovery Decentralized Healthcare Decentralized Poker Ethereum Contract Development Framework "Powerball"-style lottery A smart contracts ecosystem for a resource-based digital economy Decentralised Vulnerability feed management Social Network Decentralized KYC and Credit rating function on blockchain anti-sybil token Product Origin Tracking A publicly verifiable Voting System, powered by Smart Contracts Governance experiment A DAO working as RNG of Ethereum P2P Marketplace A Python Implementation of the Serpent Programming Language for Ethereum Simple Ethereum contract to transfer Ether to Bitcoin Slot Machine If you can lock it, we will let you rent, sell or share it. Exchange service Make your NDA Smart Autonomous Electrical Energy Entities - Prototype +EntityConcept Simple package manager for dApp development based on ethereum and IPFS Fractional investment platform for Ethereum Autonomous & open financial cloud for financial assets Tinder for horses Distributed File Storage open source mobile ethereum client A component of the Resilience taxation system Simple data provider toolkit for Ethereum Contract for running an escrow service for Ethereum token-contracts Development framework for Ethereum Reputation system Interoperable electronic health records A Universal Interface for contracts on the Ethereum blockchain Decentralized Autonomous Ventures (DAVs) A marketplace for employment credentials Bringing Google Street View to life Ethereum Wallet Crowdfunding Platform P2P Lending Group chat | Concept Demo Concept Unknown Concept Work In Progress Work In Progress Working Prototype Working Prototype Working Prototype Concept Unknown Working Prototype Concept Concept Stealth Mode ? Working Prototype Working Prototype Working Prototype Abandoned Abandoned Concept Working Prototype Work in Progress Work in Progress Working Prototype Stealth Mode Unknown On Hold (pending more infrastructure) Demo Live Concept Concept Concept ? Demo Working Prototype Live Work in Progress Live Working Prototype Stealth Mode Working Prototype Concept Concept Work In Progress Concept Live Unknown Live Working Prototype Working Prototype Working Prototype Demo Live Live Live Working Prototype Demo Live Working Prototype Live Working Prototype Work in Progress Working Prototype Live Live Live Work In Progress Working Prototype Concept Concept ? Working Prototype Live Abandoned Stealth Mode Live Live Concept Working Prototype Concept Unknown Stealth Mode Concept Working Prototype Unknown Live Live Concept Concept Live Live Work in Progress Working Prototype Work in Progress Working Prototype Stealth Mode Working Prototype Concept Concept Working Prototype Working Prototype Work In Progress Work in Progress Working Prototype Working Prototype Unknown On Hold (pending mobile & whisper) Live Working Prototype Live Stealth Mode Concept Working Prototype Concept Concept Working Prototype Work In Progress Stealth Mode Working Prototype Demo Working Prototype Work in Progress Concept Working Prototype Concept Work in Progress Working Prototype Work In Progress Working Prototype Working Prototype Working Prototype Working Prototype Concept Working Prototype Working Prototype Demo Concept Demo Work In Progress Working Prototype Work in Progress Working Prototype Work in Progress Working Prototype Demo Work In Progress Live Stealth Mode Concept Concept Demo Working Prototype Work in Progress Demo |
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List of Ethereum Dapps and their status, http://dapps.ethercasts.com/ . 157 projects total, though a few show abandoned status, many more are concept with varying update periods up to over a year. About half appear to be active with demos or live with GNU or MIT license repositories. Also a number of stealth projects. What's your point of sharing this info ? I think it's showing that DAPPS are the future and a JavaScript based language will attract even more developers. Very interesting. Wonder how many of these we could duplicate in Lisk? I wonder how many of these developers might switch to / invest in Lisk? Thanks, Mike!
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MILESTONE REACHED:
LISK IS NOW A $1,000,000 USD MARKET CAP COIN
WITH $600K IN CASH-ON-HAND FOR DEVELOPMENT EFFORTS.
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Is there not any target price for lisk ICO? This is too much for me. I think next time i participate in an ICO, i want one where the ICO stops when they have a set amount of BTC invested.
What advantage do you see for yourself to be in an ICO with a fixed and limited target? Take a break shill. Your shilling for this scam is just getting too pathetic. It was an honest question, I really don't understand his reasoning. Or yours.
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The last few weeks have been very informative on how DPoS works under stress....I set up the rocket delegates to replace the non-performing delegates - Cryptikit and Olivier's help made this much, much easier, 48 new delegates in all....At Max's suggestion, Boris added the ability for a delegate to see which accounts voted for him to the Crypti API. This, along with the new Lisk forging rewards, opens up the possibility for delegates to do profit sharing with those who vote for him. What I have in mind is how I originally thought DPoS would operate with Bitshares and should have run with Crypti. I would like to offer to split the delegate earnings with the people who vote for my delegates based on how much they have in the Lisk accounts they vote from on a running basis and how much they dilute their votes by voting for other delegates. So this would be truly a PoS type system where stake holders receive a return on their holdings with a portion going to the delegates they choose to represent them. This will also incentivize people to hold Lisk since it can offer them a return.
Mike, you've done us all a favor, more so than most people realize...so thanks! Did you have any gotchas with the latest version of Crypti Docker? My node was forging great but it wouldn't display the client at Port 8040. So I took it offline to reload it and never got it back up. Every time I loaded my local IP address in the whitelist area of the config.json file, but when I flipped the forging switch in the Port 8040 client it would say I was coming from an unauthorized IP. I finally gave up when I saw your massive effort come online. I guess I'm done forging Crypti. I did not realize we could do forging co-ops like you suggest. As you say, this will become very popular and attract votes. But then...how does the forger earn his server fees back if he has to give them out to those who voted for him? DPoS is a great system philosophically and even theoretically. But it never achieved true, actual operation at Crypti. Lisk is going to have its own challenges with DPos when the time comes, that will be fascinating to watch. Hey, folks, I'm MalReynolds. When the time comes, I would appreciate your vote to become a DPoS Active Delegate of Lisk.
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Is there not any target price for lisk ICO? This is too much for me. I think next time i participate in an ICO, i want one where the ICO stops when they have a set amount of BTC invested.
What advantage do you see for yourself to be in an ICO with a fixed and limited target? In Lisk, the value of your contribution invested in the ICO is held constant. Your number of Lisk to be allocated in the genesis block goes down as more donors show up, and the new money they bring in causes the value of each individual Lisk to go up and compensate. You do not lose or gain any money as a result of your participation in the ICO. What more could you want?
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Lisk - Changing the way you DAPPPlease take a look at our newest video, explaining why Lisk is so great. Along with the video we released a big PR package this week as well. Beautiful job, Max. Every ETH holder needs to see this....NOW!
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I have a 8 ms ping to google's server ( ping 8.8.8.8 ), also speedtest.net says my ping is 8 ms to their testing server, would this be enough? ( am hoping so, 8 ms ping response time to Google's server is incredibly reliable)..... Good question. I don't know the answer. The whole point of my "latency" post a few pages back was to request that some actual numbers / standards on this topic get put in the Lisk whitepaper. I hope that happens. I just finished checking the Cripti's block explorer ( https://cryptichain.lisk.io/delegateMonitor) and I see that not one single delegate there has an approval rating greater than 30% (29.x being user Max) if that were to be true, then a single member will not be able to mine the full 150,000 Lisks per month himself, but at least about 30% of that if that delegate is active 30% of the time. 30% approval rating is low, but at the same time Max' Uptime is 96% could be that since Cripti is a dead coin things there its not running that optimal anymore or perhaps is was always this way. Maybe it gets to be different here with Lisk. I am confused about how you are confused. The "approval rating" is the % of total Crypti that have been voted in favor of that delegate, and will be the same for Lisk. A "30% approval rating" for the top rated Crypti Active Delegate means that 70% of Crypti coins were never used to vote for anybody. The "approval rating" has nothing to do with "activity level". Forging rewards are NOT 150K Lisk per MONTH as you say; technically it's 5 Lisk per Active Delegate every 17 minutes when their turn comes up to add a block to the Lisk blockchain. So if a delegate stays in the group with the top 101 votes for the full year, that level of forging will equal a total of 150K Lisk PER YEAR per delegate, not per month. A delegate gets the same payment whether they stay for a full year as the top-voted Delegate or if they stay for a full year as a bottom-ranked Active Delegate only one vote away from being downgraded to a Standby Delegate. Max's 96% uptime has nothing to do with Crypti being a dead coin, which it isn't. Somehow you are thinking like a competitive Bitcoin miner again instead of a cooperative DPoS forger. Max was / is not in competition with anybody as a Crypti Active Delegate Forger. More Crypti forgers showing up would have no impact on Max's uptime. That is purely a measurement of his own server host provider service level. Another thing. If you want more detail about DPoS delegates, also read this earlier post of mine from several weeks ago: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1346646.msg13832600#msg13832600
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Question: bought on the first day of ico. Is there a way to collect the 15% bonus?
You bonus will appear automatically when you get your Lisk in the genesis block.
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What happened at Crypti is that standby delegates were suddenly voted up one day only to discover not only was there no running node server, the person himself had long since left the party and was nowhere to be found. Wait, a delegate that isn't running a node can be voted in? So, you mean that I can sign up as a delegate and not setup any node, keep my server down in order to save on electricity, etc and then when I get notified that I have been voted up then I will have my chance to turn on my server? In the other hand, if I get voted in and I am not running a server, will I lose my chance right away and the next delegate in stand-by will get the vote?. At Crypti, a delegate that wasn't running a node could be voted from Standby to Active status. With the current Crypti / Lisk blockchain explorer written by Olivier, there is no indication whether there is a server running or not behind a Standby Delegate. So at Crypti when you voted up a Standby Delegate, you didn't know if there was a computer or even a still-active person behind that Standby Delegate. This was less than ideal, of course, to say the least. One problem was that there wasn't even an email address on file to tell somebody they had just been voted to active status and were now expected to stand up a server node. So basically these new Active Delegates would sit there not forging after they had been voted up and everybody would wait a few days to give them a chance to get their act together before voting them down and trying somebody else. Look, DPoS is not a magic bullet. It's hard to do it right, and it takes lots of people cooperating and communicating to make it work. The most frustrating part in DPoS is seeing that there is a problem like an idle Active Delegate, and being personally powerless to fix that problem, and having to wait for votes to show up to fix it. Crypti had a good system in place but not enough people involved to really make it work. Lisk will add lots more people to the mix than Crypti ever had, and significant forging rewards to Active Delegates that Crypti never had. Are these two changes gonna be enough to make DPoS Active Delegate forging work perfectly and smoothly right from the start? My bet is no way. But Max and Olivier (and many others including me) care enough to keep slogging through what ever problems show up and keep Lisk and its DPoS forging going. You don't want 5 people running 20 nodes each in secret. You don't want 5 people running 20 nodes openly, either, if there are other good candidates who could take some of those slots as Active Delegates. But despite this ideal, you can certainly show up and say you've got 20 servers ready to go if you want. Who knows how people will vote? Maybe you will get them all on line, maybe only some, maybe only one on line. It all depends on the votes.
The reality of the situation is that two people, Max and Olivier, will be setting up the 101 initial Lisk Foundation servers to get the Lisk blockchain going. Max and Olivier will also control around 15% of the Lisk votes in the beginning with the Lisk Foundation funds. This is a huge amount of centralized voting power. So I see that its not favorable for one single individual to be running like 20 servers because this will be seen as the network being less secure. Okay, so here is my question, instead of one individual running the 20 servers physically in his house under the same ISP IP address, would it then be favorable if this same individual were to run 20 different virtual servers on 20 different data centers and IP addresses? I know its the same individual running the operation, but because each node is on different locations, if something bad happens to node A, node B, C, etc continues to run, I dont see how the network would be less secure despite these nodes having been created by a single individual. I would be tempted just to run two servers in my house instead of one, just two delegates, would Max and Olivier know that these two servers are under the same IP address? Or, do you know (going by the Cripti experience) if IP addresses gets passed over the network and becomes public knowledge or at least knowledge to anyone whatsoever. I am not asking this question because I am planning to run lots of servers "Secretly" here on my house, I fully understood that this would be view as making the network less secure and because of this I understand and would be refraining from attempting to run lots of servers here physically in my house (so I guess I could say bye bye to what I was thinking -- purchasing 101 $9 computers - even though if I get approval from the Admins I am more than willing to do it since my house is a very secure place and there is nothing to worry about here and with me) Running lots of servers from many locations under a single mastermind makes the servers themselves more physically secure and more reliable, but still requires greater trust in the mastermind. What if we go from 101 Lisk Foundation nodes to five community masterminds running 20 nodes each, and these five guys are Ethereum supporters who have organized a setup to gain control over Lisk? What if these five guys all shut their servers off simultaneously? The name of the game in blockchain building is trust no one. If you've got to trust somebody, then give as small an amount of trust as possible to as many people as possible, and hope that a majority are worthy of that trust. Any attempt by you to get more than one node going may receive votes, but it is contrary to the decentralization goal is that Lisk is trying to achieve. I'm not saying that to discourage or demonize you, just to lay the cards out on the table. If you want to try for the votes to run multiple nodes, go for it. I actually think spending $900 to buy 100 CHIP computers and dispersing these worldwide for free to volunteers that want to run the Lisk backbone is a great idea. I have even suggested this very idea to Max as a way to organize and especially control the switchover from Foundation to Community delegates. He is concerned about getting dedicated people that would actually use such a handout for its intended purpose, and rightly points out an Active Delegate needs to self-declare their intentions and fund their own node as partial proof of their worthiness. But check my post about "latency" a few pages back on page 89. Just because you want to host a $9 Lisk node at home doesn't mean you will be able to do so. Lisk, like Crypti, has a 10 second block time. This requires some fast communication between 101 computers spread worldwide. If your home internet connection is "slow" in its ping latency, you'll never run a node from there no matter how capable the computer is that you have. Check out the Crypti blockchain explorer, this shows what the Crypti experience is. Especially check out "Delegate Monitor" under "Tools". https://cryptichain.lisk.io/Note that the bottom third of the Active Delegates have only received less than 100 XCR in forging fees and all have 13.4% approval (votes). These are all "rocket name" nodes put up by one "mastermind" (one of the Crypti Foundation members) to overcome the drag being produced by a bunch of idle Active Delegates who had been voted up from Standby and never put a Crypti node up. As you can see, even masterminds have been unable to get the Crypti network at "100% online / 100% uptime". It's harder and more trouble than you might think at first. But let me end on an optimistic note - DPoS does work and Lisk will succeed!
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Dude, relax. NOBODY maintains 100% uptime, not at Crypti, not at Lisk, not anybody.
It's a lot more important to participate routinely in the community so your name is known and people have some trust in you and will recognize your name on a ballot. Having a single perfect number, especially one that gets reset every so often, is a poor way to choose somebody. Plus, poor runtime numbers are how you decide to vote somebody DOWN and OUT of the top 101 delegates. You certainly don't want to hide the facts about a person's runtime with a periodic reset. Also, a poor active delegate gets replaced by a standby delegate with 0% uptime, so what good is voting by uptime numbers at that point?
Being a Delegated Proof of Stake (DPoS) delegate is a lot more about campaigning under your own good name than it is focusing on one number.
Ok, I am beginning to understand how this delegate stuff more or less is going to be working. So, it would be a bad idea for a person to create say 20 different names for 20 different delegates as the hassle wont be worth it to going to the chat rooms or forums to present all these 20 different names as different persons to vote for them (too much work). But, if the same person decides to run 20 delegates, all under the same name then the community would only vote for one of them, and not for all of them, even if the campaign happens to be a nice one because I assume the community doesn't want one single person running like 20 delegates. Just like Bitcoin mining where we all went crazy and purchased at first lots of GPU's, then LOTS of USB Block Erupters (because with just one we weren't making enough money), I would want to be able to run more than one delegate to make more money and also hope that all of my delegates gets voted in the the 101 spots. IF I show up to the community and I announce that I have 20 servers up and ready to delegate, would the community be fine with it? Also, do we get some type of recompense for being a "stand-by" delegate? Are Stand-by delegates immediately summoned up for "work" as active delegates if any of the 101 delegates were to become suddenly offline? Or is there a time frame that the community waits before calling that node "dead" and putting the stand-by delegate to work (active). Lisk is most secure when 101 individuals are running 101 separate Active Delegate nodes and this should be our goal. You don't want 5 people running 20 nodes each in secret. You don't want 5 people running 20 nodes openly, either, if there are other good candidates who could take some of those slots as Active Delegates. But despite this ideal, you can certainly show up and say you've got 20 servers ready to go if you want. Who knows how people will vote? Maybe you will get them all on line, maybe only some, maybe only one on line. It all depends on the votes. The reality of the situation is that two people, Max and Olivier, will be setting up the 101 initial Lisk Foundation servers to get the Lisk blockchain going. Max and Olivier will also control around 15% of the Lisk votes in the beginning with the Lisk Foundation funds. This is a huge amount of centralized voting power. Unless they specifically say they will refrain from voting, I believe they will exercise these votes as required to get the community Lisk Active Delegates off to a good start. I personally am 100% certain they will vote in a way to replace Lisk Foundation nodes with individuals as much as possible instead of "forging farms" run by a single mastermind. This is just how Max and Olivier think, they believe in decentralization of Lisk as a primary goal, which is a good thing. The rest of the delegate votes (85%) are going to be split over a much larger group of people (hundreds if not thousands of people) who get their votes from the 85M Lisk being distributed. It will be very hard to get these people to vote at all, much less in a coordinated manner. The most common feeling, in my opinion, will be "why bother to vote, my share is so small it won't matter, I'm just in this to make some money on this coin, not get involved in a community". The situation will be much different than it was in Crypti, which never really had a crowd of small-holdings voters in control of picking the active delegates. Lisk could very well be a mess in the beginning that trails off to apathy in the future where very few people vote at all after the initial spurt of interest in launching Lisk. This potential for a mess is why I believe Max and Olivier will step in at the beginning to organize the community active delegate setup and get it on its feet. Your questions about standby delegates are critical and important ones. In year one of Lisk, an Active Delegate can make as much as 150K Lisk. Somebody that remains a Standby delegate for a year and never gets enough votes to go Active will make zero Lisk. So...what is the motivation for them to keep a Lisk node server ready to go on hot standby if they are suddenly and unexpectedly voted up? What happened at Crypti is that standby delegates were suddenly voted up one day only to discover not only was there no running node server, the person himself had long since left the party and was nowhere to be found. Here's a side thought. The Bitcoin miner "get-rich-quick" mentality of fielding as much gear as possible to get as big a piece of the pie as possible - that attitude really isn't what Lisk is about. Lisk is about cooperation to further the community, not competition to further one person. You would help Lisk much more if you took a deep breath, purged yourself of your dreams of being a dragon sitting atop a big pile of coins, and tried to think of a different was to apply that drive and energy that would help Lisk as a whole instead of you personally. For example, use the time you would spend running 20 nodes to learn JavaScript and go write a dapp! Bottom line, the DPoS voting / forging part of Lisk is just as important as the price swings of the coin and further development of the code. Nobody really knows yet how well the Lisk DPoS delegate system is really going to work as a social system. Honestly, we are off in uncharted territory. Lisk is different from Crypti in that it pays Active Delegates significant rewards to motivate them. Whether this will be enough to make the whole system run smoothly will be very interesting to watch.
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In regards to running a delegate, lets say I want my delegate(s) to have a 100% uptime status, if I have to take down a deletage to update its corresponding software will that affect my uptime "status", or will there be fair grace period allowing me sufficient time to update my core software without loosing my 100 % uptime status.
Also, lets assume that I experience a brief downtime from my ISP which would affect my uptime % and get reduced from 100% down to maybe 99.x%, assuming no further downtime occurs, will my uptime status get reset back to 100%? If so, in how many days?
If you take down a delegate, uptime % will decrease. So to answer, yes it will affect your uptime "status". As far as I know there is no grace period. Same thing with your ISP issue, your uptime % will suffer and it does not reset. The best you can do is keep it up as much as possible and try to reach that 99.9% https://lisk.io/documentation?i=lisk-whitepaper/LiskWhitepaper#3-consensusWhat? No grace period and it doesn't reset? You are making me nervous now specially since 2 days ago my Verizon FiOS connection decided to take a 6 hours "vacation" after 1:30AM due to a storm. So you are telling me that if my uptime status were to change from 100% to 99 or 98% that I will never have a 100% uptime status for this delegate EVER AGAIN? I think that it should reset every months to make it fair. Also, I see users very hesistant to taking down their servers to update the software if it means that they get to perpetually lose their 100% uptime status. So, if Admin decides to perform a mandatory update for the software the delegates are running, that means that users lose their 100% status. Also, once I loose my 100% status, even at no fault to me (say there was a mandatory Lisk software update that I HAVE to install), so I lose 100% status forever, and a new user that comes online and is 100% uptime will get the favor of the community, so all those Raspbery Pi 2 computers I would be running would be a waste. Question: Would having a redundant internet connection in case if the first one fail cause me to still loose the 100% uptime status? Example: My Fios Connection goes down, therefore My backup Cable ISP connection kicks in automatically maintaining my computers up, since this switch over took lets say 5 seconds to complete because I would have a watch dog monitoring in realtime, would that still cause me to loose my 100% uptime status? The only issue I could see with this is all of a sudden running under a new public IP address. Note for admin: If there is not any provisions for "forgiving" a delegate for briefly going down, then you should implement one, implement a 30 days reset, that way everyone that wants to be seen as 100% uptime always gets that change of showing responsibility. Dude, relax. NOBODY maintains 100% uptime, not at Crypti, not at Lisk, not anybody. It's a lot more important to participate routinely in the community so your name is known and people have some trust in you and will recognize your name on a ballot. Having a single perfect number, especially one that gets reset every so often, is a poor way to choose somebody. Plus, poor runtime numbers are how you decide to vote somebody DOWN and OUT of the top 101 delegates. You certainly don't want to hide the facts about a person's runtime with a periodic reset. Also, a poor active delegate gets replaced by a standby delegate with 0% uptime, so what good is voting by uptime numbers at that point? Being a Delegated Proof of Stake (DPoS) delegate is a lot more about campaigning under your own name than it is focusing on one number.
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Can I ask, what does the "LISK" mean ? Is that an acronym for something?
Lightweight Integrated Sidechain Kontroller.
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Back at Crypti we were in contact with Lerner once, regarding the Proof of Time algorithm....
- DPoS makes the whole system much simpler, therefore easier to maintain, control and enhance. - DPoS also allows us constant 10 second blocks, which will be critical in decentralized applications. - With DPoS everyone who is active within the community and therefore has some popularity has the chance to become a forger. With PoS if you aren't rich you can forget it to forge.
There are more advantages. But the 10 second blocks really were the important factor for us. Personally I think, DPoS is just a method to achieve decentralization. Now this is done and running perfectly, we won't put much work into this anymore. At Lisk we will concentrate on the decentralized applications and user experience.
This leads into a technical area I would like to get out in the open and discuss more. We have shown at Crypti that the 0.5.4 code can run very well on microcomputers like Pi2 and even CHIP. Olivier is even currently running a backbone Crypti node on a Pi2 from his home ISP. However, having a computer that can execute the 0.5.X code quickly enough is only part of the picture. As I recall, Litoshi tried to run a Crypti backbone node on a much-higher-than-Pi2-capability home PC from his home ISP. He failed to sync with the rest of the network due to the "high" latency of his home ISP. The key to Olivier's Pi2 node success is that his home internet service provider (ISP) has an unusually "low" latency. From these experiences, the impact and relationships of network latency on Lisk capabilities needs to be quantified, so people have realistic expectations on what their Lisk DPoS backbone nodes and their Lisk dapp sidechain nodes can accomplish. In general terms, in the upcoming Lisk network there will be 101 DPoS nodes. During one blocktime, all of these different nodes must exchange some fixed number of messages W between them in some algorithmic sequence X to write the next block. How fast these messages can be exchanged determines how fast the overall block time can be. To get the desired Lisk backbone blocktime of 10 seconds, you need a certain maximum allowed message transfer time Y and thus a certain maximum allowed network latency Z. What are these WXYZ numbers for the baseline Lisk 10 second blocktime? I believe this all needs to be described in a technical section of the Lisk whitepaper. For Lisk sidechains, I believe we need to go beyond the Lisk mainchain case. We somehow need to allow the use of higher latency internet communications links for sidechains, and allow Lisk sidechain users to increase their blocktimes and set them as required to compensate for high network latency and still work correctly. There needs to be a formula established for Lisk sidechain users so they can say "My maximum network latency is X, so I have to set my sidechain blocktime at Y or greater".
So, questions. What is the maximum ISP network latency that would still allow a DPoS delegate to run a Lisk node from their home on a Pi2 or CHIP? Will Lisk 0.5.X have adjustable sidechain blocktimes allowing the use of home ISP connections to support Lisk sidechains running on networks of Pi2s/CHIPs, no matter how high the latency of the home ISP communcation links connecting them?
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Im lucky if i still have 50 lisk from my 1 btc when this ico is done The rising Satoshi price keeps your declining holdings of Lisk at a constant value of the 1 btc you originally donated.
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Curious why Lisk is using dPoS instead of normal PoS
In a pure PoS system, the richest coin holders that set up a forging node get most of the rewards from running those nodes. With DPoS, anybody can set up a forging node no matter how much or how little of the coin they hold, as long as they pay (for Lisk) a 100 coin start fee. Under DPoS, a poor coin holder / node runner gets the same rewards as a rich coin holder / node runner. Thus there is incentive for poor coin holders to run a good node to increase their coin holdings. Since there's a lot more poor coin holders than rich ones, the pool of potential node runners is much bigger. This is a Good Thing.
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Anybody heard of Rootstock? It apparently is some kind of open source project to bring Ethereum-like smart contracts to the Bitcoin blockchain. Their effort is literally only a week old; their first blog post was only two days ago. Their team seems to be a half dozen guys from Argentina. They have gotten press coverage from eight other guys. http://www.rootstock.io/#1Max, I have a couple of thoughts about this. Maybe contact these guys to make them aware of Lisk? Two of them (Zaldivar and Eidelman) claim to be proficient in JavaScript. Maybe there is a way they could use Lisk and a Lisk Dapp to launch their Rootstock project? It would be a plus for Lisk if we could claim to be the underlying tech used to add new capability to Bitcoin itself. Also, if their Rootstock project doesn't take off in the future, maybe they would consider working on Lisk. Another idea...the guys that wrote an article on Rootstock could very well be willing to write an article on Lisk. More free publicity, perhaps.
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LISK will be unable to serve any real world use cases as well. There is simply no market for these digital excrements in the context of real world business processes. LISK ... social and commercial importance in global level is precisely zero.
I still predict that the first person using Lisk to field a worldwide sports betting dapp will become a billionaire.
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