Yay, websocket is back. Thanks Mt. Gox.
I saw it back for a moment... but it doesn't work now, does it? It's working for me in my own client. Thanks MagicalTux! |
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Ultimately these coins are gone. Since more coins have been mined since then, any work to evict the transaction from the blockchain would do more damage to miners.
Imagine this were 500000 BTC and every MtGox user were at risk of a major loss. (which would certainly hit the news and damage the community).
A feature that allowed a miner to vote out a block or a transaction would be valuable. If 50%+ did it, the error would simply vanish. Democracy at work. But it would only work if that 50% voted immediately.
It's highly improbably that 50% would be able to evaluate the matter at hand and make that decision within the timeframe that allows to "undo" this without too much damage (blocks mined after questionable block). So people might come up with the idea of proxying this decision-making. This might put the decision-making into too few hands, of course, and all the decentralization is down the drain. I don't think this is a good idea, therefore. Maybe MagicalTux should try to get some insurance against fuckups like this. Might be expensive and put a lot of hassle on him by ways of auditor wanting to see all code pre-production  |
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Or it sounds like the mainline client does validation of the protocol message. Perhaps this could be broken out into a library that everyone could use to validate the protocol message before it was sent?
No, it's not a flaw. You can read the chatlog I pasted on page 2 for more information why. Must've been quite exhausting to keep arguing for such a long time with the guy that just seemed to refuse to even consider your viewpoint. I really admire your patience there, genjix. |
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As great a conversation starter that the coins are, I suspect their biggest short term benefit will be that people can now buy
Bitcoins with a Credit card or Paypal.
Now just about anyone has a convenient way to buy Bitcoins.
The premium on the 25BTC coins is very reasonable, and will be even better on the 100 BTC product that is coming soon.
I'm suspecting that this may become a way to allow exchanges, or others, to sell Bitcoins safely using Paypal and Credit cards.
Any thoughts?
While I trust Mike Caldwell a lot, there is still a possibility that he's keeping the private keys (I'm not suspecting he does, but it's a possibility). So there's still a trust issue involved. I wouldn't confidently use the 100 BTC coins for storage of my wealth. I don't quite understand why you say it'd be somehow safer to deal in physical bitcoins than in virtual ones. The problem with paypal does not lie in the delivery of the bitcoins, but mainly in the reversibility of paypal transactions and the fact that paypal does not guarantee to keep your account usable. Did I misunderstand something? |
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what's the new timeline for getting the 5970s online?
I went ahead and used my own money to order another motherboard so we wouldn't have to wait for the exchange process with newegg. The new board should arrive Wednesday or Thursday. As soon as the board is delivered, I'll get it running. Hopefully this is the last hurdle. It's nice of you to use your own money. I'm assuming why we see -15$ in the asset list? |
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Renting hashing power could be taken either way
As in it is beyond pointless to rent hashing power to others or it is beyond pointless to rent hashing offered by others.
Technically I agree. It is a zero sum game.
Either the renter is a loser or the rentee is the loser.
The renting rig business isn't viable it just exists because Bitcoin is an immature business.
It would be like me having a dollar bill store.
If I sell dollar bills for $1.10 each then the buyer is losing.
If I sell dollars bills for $0.90 each then the seller (me) is losing.
This is why we tend not to see dollar bill stores.
Not everyone has access to cheap power. |
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How about raining the 50 BTC down randomly in small patches. Send your harvesters out, or something along these lines... EDIT: about an engine: I played spring a while ago with a friend. pretty good engine, it seems to me: http://springrts.com/Ya, I guess they do not even need to be considered BTC in the game. Maybe something that you can sell for BTC or whichever. may the SPICE be with you! That spring engine looks quite nice. Open source and everything.
I agree. |
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Just had an idea for a Bitcoin game....
Similar concept. All items/upgrades/etc. in game are purchased and sold using Bitcoins. The Bitcoin client will be built into the game to ease the transfer of coins.
The game will also include mining code into it to mine coins.
It is basically a battle type of game where everyone is out for themselves, or they form groups or whatever they want.
When the combined power of all of the miners discovers a block and gets 50 BTC it pops up in the game (or many coins separated are sent out). The coins fall closest to those who contributed the most GPU power.
When the 50 BTC comes in, it is a free for all. Whoever can get to it first wins. You can fight others, coordinate with others, go lone wolf, etc.
When you get the BTC, the server transfers the BTC to you. From there maybe you need to get back to your home base or whichever.
It would be like pool mining but a game where playing a video game could actually make you money.
How about raining the 50 BTC down randomly in small patches. Send your harvesters out, or something along these lines... EDIT: about an engine: I played spring a while ago with a friend. pretty good engine, it seems to me: http://springrts.com/ |
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there are some mining corporations on glbse.com: MergedMining, FPGA.Contract, JLP-BMD.
You could check their shares market value, figure out their hashrates and determine an average price per GH/s that way. I don't know how that would compare to other, more direct ways of calculating this based on mining income and running cost.
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Some fun facts for those that may not yet know: Vili Lehdonvirta advocates regulation: "A New Frontier in Digital Content Policy: Case Studies in the Regulation of Virtual Goods and Artificial Scarcity" http://www.hiit.fi/~vlehdonv/documents/Lehdonvirta-2010-virtual-goods-regulation.pdf"We are working with the government to make sure indeed the long arm of the government can reach Bitcoin" Jeff Garzik, Bitcoin Developer http://rulingclass.wordpress.com/2011/06/09/bitcoin-and-agorism/Donald Norman, the co-founder of Bitcoin Consultancy, advocates for Bitcoin's regulation, according to CNBC. "Norman is pushing to bring Bitcoin away from its roots and closer to a traditional currency — he is reaching out to regulators, looking to get legislation to oversee the system," says CNBC. http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2011/06/this-is-what-will-really-crash-bitcoin.html?spref=tw"In the UK, supporters of Bitcoin made an urgent appeal to the Financial Services Authority to regulate the largest London-based exchange, so as to reassure people that using Bitcoin is safe. "Unregulated businesses don't usual cry out for regulation," said Donald Norman, co-founder of the exchange Britcoin. "But because we are unusual, and because we are dealing with people's money, and because of all the scary stories around Bitcoin, we would like nothing more than to have a government authority looking into our accounts – especially now." http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/hack-attack-pushes-bitcoin-to-the-brink-2300384.htmlAmir goes for bitcoin regulation (on national radio program): http://www.katherinealbrecht.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3768:sat-june-25-2011&catid=20:show-archives&Itemid=44They're trying to make their exchange (intersango, formerly britcoin) function in the future. Something mtgox is also trying, but without much success (see french central bank and court-case). For the bitcoinconsultancy crowd, in my mind, it's about securing the working of exchange of BTC to FIAT. It's not about changing the inner workings of bitcoin itself. I doubt they'd attempt to do that. |
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Even part-time revolutionists can find a home in the Bitcoin world lol. this goes onto my list of favorite bitcoin quotes. |
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http://bitcoin.sipa.be gives a much saner and less jiggly view of the hasrate, there's different averaging periods being used in the graphs.
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what's the new timeline for getting the 5970s online?
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Websockets have been dead for about a week. Nothing on MtGox's support page about it. Does MtGox even know, or do they care? It seems not.
MagicalTux knows, has been saying something routes not being up about 3 or 4 days ago. Does he care? I'm not sure. I think the websocket stuff is pretty important. |
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How does one pronounce "casascius" anyway? ^This To make this question more interesting you might want to make option (C) 0% and/or slightly rephrase the question. You might also try something a little bit deeper:
If one of the following five answers to this question is chosen at random what is the chance you will be correct?
A) 0%
B) 20%
C) 40%
D) 80%
E) 40% How does one "answer" this? My head is full of fog  It is strongly reminiscent of "This sentence is false. Is that sentence correct?". Basically, if 40% is correct, you have 40% chance. But if 20% is correct, you have 20% chance. But if they are both correct, then there's 60% chance, which gives 0% chance, which gives 20% chance. So 20% wouldn't keep looping around, but 40% wouldn't either, but they can't both be correct. Should we say there is no answer, the question is a liar paradox? I can't put my finger on what is "wrong" with the question… The answer is part of the question, that's what's "wrong" with the question. |
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SibosTV - The Future of Money http://youtu.be/bwmjyeKE6KkAt Sibos 2011 Toronto, Kavita Maharaj ponders the future of money with Udayan Goyal, Founder, Anthemis Group SA; Heather Schlegel, Innovation, SWIFT; Donald Norman, Co-Founder of Bitcoin Consultancy, Owner of Intersango.com; and Shamir Karkal, CFO, Banksimple. nice talk most definitely. I like the "smart bank" idea a lot, too. Did anyone catch the name of the "new german bank that was accounced"? "feda bank" or "feder bank", I can't find it. |
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Why is anyone surprised MtGox could give away $100 easily. They are an exchange. If they're not flat out printing their own money, they just influence the exchange rate to cover their losses.
Just because he could make money easily neither means he does it nor means he gives it away at every 2nd occasion. See Uncle Scrooge, if you will. |
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I think the physical coins are a genious idea, because you actually start to "think" about bitcoin as money. Here I am, actually standing there in the shop, calculating the cost of cheese in BTC. That's a fun thought experiment, but I see the BTC price at the moment still as rather volatile. If you get used to something now, it might be totally different next month… Yeah, that constant change takes getting used to, still fun. |
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3
Intuitively, I don't really know how much the others are worth
The 3 options are currently of equal value. 1 for me, btw. Yes, I can easily calculate that, but my mind works in euros. I see that 50€ bill lots of times so I know how much it's worth. When I see a bunch of coins I need to think: "So they currently are worth around $3.2, and there are X coins in the photo so I would have N dollars and then in euros I would have...". My intuition skips the math and goes to "Hey, there's a 50€ bill here!". (emphasis mine) Since I bought some silver coins yesterday, I started denominating everything in terms of silver coins: case of good beer: 1/2 coin. 700km ride: 1 coin. weekly grocery shopping: 1 coin. domestic flight: 3 coins, night at hostel: hmm, probably 2/3rds of a silver coin. I've been doing it with bitcoin, too, but only since I received my casascius physical coins. I think the physical coins are a genious idea, because you actually start to "think" about bitcoin as money. Here I am, actually standing there in the shop, calculating the cost of cheese in BTC. |
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heh, why is fiat winning? people are zombies following a hunger for paper money.
Because of the three, it has had the least fluctuation in value over the last 3 months. lol, if you compare bitcoin to namecoin, it doesn't fluctuate much either. "Fluctuation" implies 2 objects. What are you measuring fiat fluctuation against? |
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