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1161  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Iceland - perfect for bitcoin adoption on: July 11, 2011, 01:56:19 AM
Iceland "declares" independence huh.   Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

The author needs a little history lesson on the Icelandic krona.  Or is independent the new politically correct term for bankrupt?   Grin
1162  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Blizzard Entertainment & Bitcoins on: July 10, 2011, 09:43:56 PM
Depends on the size of the company.  

Since you own stock in them, tell me when is the last time they asked you to vote for much of anything more then the board members?
Do you remember seeing the vote to add the phone bill payment method for example?  How much of a say did you have with the negotiations  with thenine and/or netease, which have a far bigger impact on the company and revenues then adding a payment method.



Well that's why I said indirectly.  A shareholder speaks with their wallet.  If I disagree with ATVI's vision, I sell.  Same as any other shareholder, institutional or otherwise.  
1163  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Blizzard Entertainment & Bitcoins on: July 10, 2011, 09:05:14 PM
The target for this is not yet the average adult anyway.   Target would be precocious kids.

The average adult is absolutely your target.  Your average adult is the one with a brokerage account, 401(k), IRA, etc. etc.

You seem to be forgetting who the owners of the Company are.  Senior management is not answering to "precocious kids" they're answering to shareholders.  You know, the average adult?

No,  that is not the target.... at all....    since when is adding a payment method a board/shareholder level decision?


So adding a payment method is not a decision made by the owners of a Company?  It affects revenues.  Maybe if Bitcoins only added users but you have to take into account existing users switching from their current form of payment to Bitcoin.  Now you're talking about switching relatively stable revenues to relatively volatile revenues.  Management's main concern with a public company is the preservation of their stock so it is indirectly a shareholder decision.  Everything is.

We can go back and forth on this but I don't think it's worth the effort.  The ironic thing is I'm an owner of both Bitcoin and ATVI, believe it or not.  I'm just trying to look at this objectively.  
1164  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Blizzard Entertainment & Bitcoins on: July 10, 2011, 08:50:44 PM
The target for this is not yet the average adult anyway.   Target would be precocious kids.

The average adult is absolutely your target.  Your average adult is the one with a brokerage account, 401(k), IRA, etc. etc.

You seem to be forgetting who the owners of the Company are.  Senior management is not answering to "precocious kids" they're answering to shareholders.  You know, the average adult?
1165  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Blizzard Entertainment & Bitcoins on: July 10, 2011, 08:46:23 PM
Another issue besides volatility is the fact that only a very small fraction of the populace has even heard of Bitcoin at this point.  Forget about the kids playing the games because they're not the ones that matter.  They don't own the stock and they're already paying to play right now so the current options have to be working to some degree.

So now Activision-Blizzard comes out and announces Bitcoin adoption.  Lets be REALLY generous and say 10% of outstanding shareholders have heard of Bitcoin.  The rest are finding out through disclosures in Blizzard's 10-K, press release, or other medium.  Okay so now Blizzard has introduced a new exposure risk that 90% of their shareholders have never heard of.  Obviously, they're going to do some research.  We already know how the media has painted Bitcoin.  You think these shareholders are going to be thrilled reading these articles with keywords like "drugs" "guns" and "child pornography?"

And Blizzard is going to take all of this risk because of credit card transaction fees?  Beyond delusional.

Look, I'm not saying what the OP is doing is bad.  It's just wasted effort.  Blizzard is the wrong type of company to be aiming for right now.  Bitcoin is in its infancy and people have to come to grips that a company like Blizzard is not going to be an early adopter.  You need to focus your efforts on a company that has a minority amount of shareholders that is willing to take some risks.  Not a company worried about their stock plummeting on the NASDAQ.  
1166  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Blizzard Entertainment & Bitcoins on: July 10, 2011, 08:30:46 PM
I don't have any idea how much credit card fees are, but I have a feeling it is no where near the volatility of Bitcoin. I'm used to waking up every morning and having the price gone up/down 10%. And that's on a quiet day. A company like Blizzard doesn't need to expose itself to that kind of risk.

Exactly.  People need to stop using the transaction fee angle because it's nonsensical.  The amount they pay in fees is a small fraction compared to the volatility exposure they would face with Bitcoins in its current state. 




I am guessing most of the people who keep harping on the volatility issue have never done any cross boarder trading.  It is a long solved problem.


I'm assuming you mean border.  And Blizzard is not in the business of trading.  If you meant hedging foreign currency exposure then yes that problem has been solved in a derivatives market for which one does not exist (on the proper scale) for Bitcoins. 
1167  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Blizzard Entertainment & Bitcoins on: July 10, 2011, 08:24:49 PM
A couple issues. First daily volatility would only be an issue if blizzard were to try to sell their btc at the very moment they received them, every time they received them,   and second the only reason the market is so volatile is because it is loaded with speculators. When more companies embrace BTC volatility will lessen thus speculators will not be able to profit as readily on short term margin trading. Most every market has some amount of volatility but that has never stopped anyone from embracing it eventually.

The coolest thing about BTC is the potential for lucrative opportunities for anyone with a little bit of vision and the ability to think about not what is but what could be.

The problem is a company like Blizzard is not going to be an early adopter.  It's easier to explain transaction fees to a shareholder than speculating in a new currency.  
1168  Economy / Economics / Re: 10k BTC bid wall...Is this activity normal? on: July 10, 2011, 08:05:12 PM
These false walls have been put up and down for a while now. 
1169  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Blizzard Entertainment & Bitcoins on: July 10, 2011, 07:50:51 PM
I don't have any idea how much credit card fees are, but I have a feeling it is no where near the volatility of Bitcoin. I'm used to waking up every morning and having the price gone up/down 10%. And that's on a quiet day. A company like Blizzard doesn't need to expose itself to that kind of risk.

Exactly.  People need to stop using the transaction fee angle because it's nonsensical.  The amount they pay in fees is a small fraction compared to the volatility exposure they would face with Bitcoins in its current state. 

1170  Economy / Speculation / Re: Bitcoin will never reach $20 again on: July 09, 2011, 07:47:36 PM
except for this:  in a real bet of this kind, both parties are adequately secure in their beliefs that the idea of losing isn't worth considering.

It's not about being secure in whether you'll win or not.  It's the fact that even if you DO win, you can STILL LOSE.  See my example.

Quote
and where does your 100 BTC come from?  my original bet was 50.   Roll Eyes

Cypherdoc.  Who I quoted.  Not you.  Not that the amount of BTC's is relevant anyway.
1171  Economy / Speculation / Re: Bitcoin will never reach $20 again on: July 09, 2011, 07:33:16 PM
in a BTC to BTC bet, both parties would stand to win or lose exactly the same amount in BTC.  my BTC is worth the same as his BTC right now.

i thought of your objection.  it adds flavor...

In Bitcoins, yes.  But a bear would believe Bitcoins would lose value otherwise why take the bet?  As an example, lets say in a year BTC's are worth $5, so technically the bear wins.  This would be the transaction:

Bear buys 100BTC today at $1,400 (approx.)
Bear wins 100 BTC one year from now.
Bear takes his 200 BTCs from the escrow and cashes out at $1,000.

So even though he won the bet, he lost $400, not to mention the time value over the last year.  Only a moron would take that bet.
1172  Economy / Speculation / Re: Bitcoin will never reach $20 again on: July 09, 2011, 07:28:31 PM
i will also bet any or all of you btc bears/trolls in this thread 100 BTC each to be held in escrow that the USD price will exceed $20 in one year.  

Assuming a bear would not have any Bitcoins, they would lose either way.  They would have to buy Bitcoins now, ~$1,400 at current prices give or take, then put it in escrow.  If they "win" then their coins are worthless (or at least worth a lot less) and they lose the $1400 paid for this stupid bet.  If they lose, they're out $1400 plus whatever appreciation bitcoin sees in a year.

You'd have to do a straight USD bet to make it fair, which is kind of ironic considering the wager.

no its not.  the price could be $19.99 in one year.

actually they win if its $20.  i said "exceed".

Yeah there's a point where they win, as long as the price stays between whatever they buy at and $20.  But the odds are still heavily in your favor.  
1173  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Is this a paradox? on: July 09, 2011, 07:26:06 PM
Note: this same economic concept is why the world will never "run out" of oil, or trees, or any resource. If the last barrel of oil were found... at what price would it sell? Infinity. And long before that last barrel, alternatives would be used.

So cheer up all, we'll never run out of oil, and Bitcoins will never all be owned by one person Wink

True the law of substitution should come into play.  The famous simon-ehrlich wager comes to mind.

However, you can run out of a resource.  There's plenty of extinct animals due to poaching to prove that.
1174  Economy / Speculation / Re: Bitcoin will never reach $20 again on: July 09, 2011, 07:21:45 PM
i will also bet any or all of you btc bears/trolls in this thread 100 BTC each to be held in escrow that the USD price will exceed $20 in one year. 

Assuming a bear would not have any Bitcoins, they would lose either way.  They would have to buy Bitcoins now, ~$1,400 at current prices give or take, then put it in escrow.  If they "win" then their coins are worthless (or at least worth a lot less) and they lose the $1400 paid for this stupid bet.  If they lose, they're out $1400 plus whatever appreciation bitcoin sees in a year.

You'd have to do a straight USD bet to make it fair, which is kind of ironic considering the wager.
1175  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Blizzard Entertainment & Bitcoins on: July 09, 2011, 05:53:45 PM
Blizzard is a publicly traded company, you're better off soliciting a smaller, private company.  The volatility in BTC is just too great right now.  Blizzard =/= World of Warcraft.  And even if it did, such a minor fraction of that playerbase would know about Bitcoin at this point making it completely pointless.  I won't even go into the shareholders....

OP, I'm not trying to discourage you, just being real.  Try and start with a little smaller fish.
1176  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Fun Calculation For The Day on: July 09, 2011, 05:45:30 PM
Here's a fun calculation: There are 166,000 tonnes of gold in the world (source: World Gold Council). Each tonne consists of 32,150 troy ounces for a total of 5,336,900,000 ounces. Divide that amount by the eventual total number of bitcoin (21,000,000) and you get 254 ounces of gold per bitcoin. With gold at a US dollar value of $1,600 that would equate to $406,400 per bitcoin.

32150 x 166000 = 5,336,900,000 oz / 21,000,000 = 254 oz per 1 BTC or 254 x $1,600 gold = $406,400 per BTC

Do I think a bitcoin will eventually be worth $406, 400? I have no idea... Smiley What do you think?

Isn't Bitcoin supposed to be a next gen currency?  I'm not understanding why it's being compared to a commodity.  And specifically, gold.  Why not silver?  Or copper?  All which have real world uses and thousands of years of history as a store of value.

Believing one Bitcoin will be at parity with 254 ounces of gold is beyond delusional.  
1177  Economy / Economics / Re: Price for 2011-07 on: July 09, 2011, 02:02:37 AM
Looks like most people think the price will be in the 17-20 $ range soon. As the price is based on what people will pay for it, this means that the price will go to that level. Therefore, everybody should be buying at any price below 17 and selling at any price above 20. Right?

Not everyone, just those who believe that's the trading range.
1178  Economy / Economics / Can Bitcoin benefit from a derivatives market? on: July 07, 2011, 07:12:56 PM
I am of the opinion that in order for Bitcoin to gain wide acceptance, we need to have a larger merchant base.  Established, high volume merchants, not start-up companies no one has heard of.  The start-ups are fine, and have a place in Bitcoin, I’m just talking about taking BTC to the next level.

The primary problem that I see is the volatility in the current BTC prices compared to <insert currency of your choice>.  Speculators are driving the price of BTC’s all over the map, making BTC’s an unfavorable medium of exchange at the moment.

Rather than fight the market and the speculators, perhaps we can have an exchange that both merchants and speculators can use.  This is where derivatives may be able to come into play.

Any business worth their salt will do pro forma projections on future cash flows.  This is particularly important if they want to receive financing, a line for working capital for instance, from a bank.  A pro forma would be incredibly difficult to do in Bitcoins current volatile market.

What if someone were to set up some sort of futures market?  Merchants could buy contracts that essentially lock in their Bitcoin price, allowing them to price their goods accordingly.  Essentially hedging BTC's volatility.

Speculators can trade these futures contracts, allowing them to “play the market.” 

I don’t want to go into too much detail because really I’m just brainstorming and I don’t know if this topic has come up before but I thought I’d throw it out there.  If it sounds feasible, I’d be willing to put in the time to make a more concrete plan, I just don’t want to waste my time if no one thinks this will work.  Thoughts? 
1179  Economy / Economics / Re: Proposal: Idea for a much more stable bitcoin on: July 07, 2011, 05:32:54 AM
Hint:  when you are in a hole stop digging ... you appear to be out of your depth here.

Witty  Cheesy

When you stated, "more and more stable all the time," it implies some sort of linear progression towards stability.  At Bitcoin's current volatility, I don't see how you can come to that conclusion.  Just my opinion. 
1180  Economy / Economics / Re: My Country don't accept Dollar anymore on: July 07, 2011, 04:47:12 AM
that is logical, since the US gov basically prints more money at will.
why would anyone wants to hold the USD?
It is like holding fake money, where people can print at will.

Why would anyone want to hold the Euro?  Greece is essentially bankrupt with Ireland, Italy, Portugal, and Spain also in crisis.  The world does not exist in a vacuum.  There's much more than the USD at critical levels right now. 
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