What we need is a reliable peer-to-peer exchange. The problem is to connect this system to the fiat economy...
it already is. i've got my connection down to 7h via wire exchanges. and even if gox gets shutdown, the connection will always be there on the streets via person to person exchange. Gox is not peer-to-peer. What I'm talking about is a completely online peer-to-peer exchange where you could wire money. Maybe in your area you can find other peoples to do in person exchange but in my are there is none. do you really mean wire? b/c that would depend on the banks. I mean peer-to-peer system like in BitTorrent and Bitcoin. If we could have an exchange connected to the conventional banking system build on a decentralised infrastructure it would be impossible to shutdown. well, it sounds like Bitcoin Central is the closest we have at the moment. |
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What we need is a reliable peer-to-peer exchange. The problem is to connect this system to the fiat economy...
it already is. i've got my connection down to 7h via wire exchanges. and even if gox gets shutdown, the connection will always be there on the streets via person to person exchange. Gox is not peer-to-peer. What I'm talking about is a completely online peer-to-peer exchange where you could wire money. Maybe in your area you can find other peoples to do in person exchange but in my are there is none. do you really mean wire? b/c that would depend on the banks. |
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To be honest, I think proudhon is a nice bear. From what I have seen he just states his beliefs in a respectful way.
he says the same tired dirbble he's been spouting for over a year. I know, but if bitcoin had been going down for the last year, we would be saying "its gonna go back up" too, no? He set all kinds of targets, confidently. And when they all get broken, he still repeated the same thing, and sometimes he was a bit like"whatever I am seeing now, it is gonna collapse next minute". Which is quite a bit weird for me. whats weird is that he keeps showing up here. i used to think he was a bull in hiding but no, he really is a permabear. even ElectricMucus is starting to come around. proudhon, not. |
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After the $30 peak, it took some time before people realised that it had become a bear market.
Exactly. It'll take a while, but eventually I think we're likely to get into the $10 area, and probably lower. I've got all the time in the world. proudhon, tell us at what price you'll actually buy and become a bull. b/c you've been a bear all the way down to $2 and now all the way up to $19 and back down to where we are now. when, oh when? he's probably thinking something very bad will happen at one point ( Governments start poking around ) and price will suffer gr8ly. anything can happen.... <1$ bitcoins is not imposable, to think nothing bad will ever happen is just plain stupid, its just getting started... the currency wars are going to get real ugly, real soon. Despite what conspiracy theorists would want you to believe, the world's governments are not in such a good companionship as to make a coordinated attack on Bitcoin. It does not need to be a coordinated attack - USA alone is enough to scare investors, sure the anarchists will stay with bitcoin till the end - but USA can destroy the exchanges. so what? the proper way to think about this is that politicians and their crony bankster friends consist of only 0.02% of the population. as well, Bitcoin security exists at the level of the laptop, metaphorically speaking. when the average person in the other 99.98% of the population truly understands Bitcoin, his laptop will automatically become a server in the network. there is absolutely no way for any gov't to shut down 99.98% of the population of the world from expressing their opinion, unless you believe they will shut down the Internet itself. which will never happen. |
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What we need is a reliable peer-to-peer exchange. The problem is to connect this system to the fiat economy...
it already is. i've got my connection down to 7h via wire exchanges. and even if gox gets shutdown, the connection will always be there on the streets via person to person exchange. |
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I believe bicoin and other virtual/digital currencies are the only means that help US and Europe prevent chinese currency becoming a world currency when china GPD surpass or even triple US GDP. So they will silently support bitcoin instead of killing it. The recently ECB's report is an indication
Intriguing idea. I too have always thought that gubmints might actually step up one day and say this is a good idea. |
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My attempt to right that crooked ship is below: Mencius, your first point regarding a DOJ indictment on an edge-exchange seems to ignore the fact that any kind of prosecution on a decentralized system ever results in long-term harm to that system. Big media companies using collective suits against bitorrent users, for example.
This has hardly stopped any use of the protocol. To the contrary, it has only increased its popularity as people who have never had an inclination such things were going on became informed through various articles on the subject.
Then you assert that because one edge exchange is impacted, and for the sake of the argument lets just assume there was one successful shutdown, that the overall valuation of bitcoin would fall to zero.
While the users of that exchange would certainly be hurt by such an action, the rest of the network would shrug and move on. There are other avenues besides edge-exchanges, and when bitcoin reaches its full potential, they won't be relevant anymore.
You then invoke the general fear-mongering strategy of suggesting a major government would ban the use of bitcoin - again ignoring that it would most likely encourage its use.
As for the rest of your article, you touch on the usual debunked myths such as "hoarding will kill bitcoin", and some rather long rambling about how well the shutdown would kill the network. (It won't, as I described earlier.)
The crowning jewel on the entire affair is how at the end you advocate gold being resistant to government prosecution and seizure, which is laughable in light of its density and material qualities that lend it to detection when carried in refined form.
I'm afraid that suitcase of gold in the lining won't be making it through the airport, while the transfer of wealth across the internet using bitcoin won't even weigh down the traveler using it.
Then again, that is all this piece is - a lot of hyperbolic reasoning sewn together with a rather unrealistic view of government efficiency.
Good luck, you'll need it with that cognitive bias dragging you down. Nice |
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The fact in itself that a Bitcoin conference is going to be held at a nice venue will most likely make the currency seem more legitimate to a lot of people.
$300 (actually $250 right now) is a very reasonable fee to attend a conference compared to the price of other professional conferences, especially considering the substantial costs involved in hosting the event.
I personally don't think $300 + travel expenses (I'm in Rhode Island) + taking a day or two off work is worth it to attend the conference. I would probably think differently if I were more involved in Bitcoin and/or if I lived near San Jose. I also don't understand why people are against a Bitcoin conference. The Bitcoin foundation should encourage collaboration among the bitcoin community and a conference seems like a great way to do that. It's pretty obvious that the impact of real-life communication is much more than than of Internet-based communication. Just because you can communicate ideas via the Internet doesn't make the Internet the best medium for getting ideas across; it's just the most convenient.
I think having a conference is a great idea even though I won't be attending. If anything it'll give Bitcoin additional press coverage which certainly won't hurt the currency's path to the mainstream, and of course it'll bring together people who are serious enough about Bitcoin to pay for admission + associated fees.
It's amusing that a topic about an official conference for a decentralized global currency has started deteriorating into an argument over frequency and duration of sexual activity... that in itself is proof in itself that the Internet isn't always the best medium for meaningful discussion.
This is such a great point. Internet communication clearly allows one to hide behind a computer screen and veer a meaningful discussion off into a troll fest. If you tried this at the conference you'd likely get punched in the face. |
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After the $30 peak, it took some time before people realised that it had become a bear market.
Exactly. It'll take a while, but eventually I think we're likely to get into the $10 area, and probably lower. I've got all the time in the world. proudhon, tell us at what price you'll actually buy and become a bull. b/c you've been a bear all the way down to $2 and now all the way up to $19 and back down to where we are now. when, oh when? he's probably thinking something very bad will happen at one point ( Governments start poking around ) and price will suffer gr8ly. anything can happen.... <1$ bitcoins is not imposable, to think nothing bad will ever happen is just plain stupid, its just getting started... the currency wars are going to get real ugly, real soon. Despite what conspiracy theorists would want you to believe, the world's governments are not in such a good companionship as to make a coordinated attack on Bitcoin. yes, very true. Germany repatriating gold from the US and France is one example. Since you are aware of this you still think that Gold gonna collapse? i still have the short on. |
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After the $30 peak, it took some time before people realised that it had become a bear market.
Exactly. It'll take a while, but eventually I think we're likely to get into the $10 area, and probably lower. I've got all the time in the world. proudhon, tell us at what price you'll actually buy and become a bull. b/c you've been a bear all the way down to $2 and now all the way up to $19 and back down to where we are now. when, oh when? he's probably thinking something very bad will happen at one point ( Governments start poking around ) and price will suffer gr8ly. anything can happen.... <1$ bitcoins is not imposable, to think nothing bad will ever happen is just plain stupid, its just getting started... the currency wars are going to get real ugly, real soon. Despite what conspiracy theorists would want you to believe, the world's governments are not in such a good companionship as to make a coordinated attack on Bitcoin. yes, very true. Germany repatriating gold from the US and France is one example. |
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After the $30 peak, it took some time before people realised that it had become a bear market.
Exactly. It'll take a while, but eventually I think we're likely to get into the $10 area, and probably lower. I've got all the time in the world. proudhon, tell us at what price you'll actually buy and become a bull. b/c you've been a bear all the way down to $2 and now all the way up to $19 and back down to where we are now. when, oh when? he's probably thinking something very bad will happen at one point ( Governments start poking around ) and price will suffer gr8ly. anything can happen.... <1$ bitcoins is not imposable, to think nothing bad will ever happen is just plain stupid, its just getting started... the currency wars are going to get real ugly, real soon. so if currency wars get started, just which currency is it that isn't going to be debased? oh wait, Bitcoin! wouldn't that make it do a moon shot? |
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Alright, here we go. On a monthly close basis, we could see a record high if price stays above the $16.10 level.  Viewing monthly average prices, we aren't quite ready to break into new territory just yet.  Either way, it's good stuff. Notice that monthly volume is the 4th highest it's ever been in USD terms (likely to be 3rd by the end of the month), and this seems to be a different type of volume than the previous highs were - the 2011 bubble (June), the 2012 new year spike (January; possibly Pirate related), and the 2012 BS&T shutdown (August). Instead of concentrated activity or disasters, this feels more like organic growth from wider demand. With the exception of some high-volume trading participants, it does look like there are a lot more players than a year ago. so a few things: 1. i don't think closing prices for such a long time interval are helpful. your first graph completely omits the spike to $32, which altho brief, is important info for the avg investor. that spike rightfully illuminates the irrational exuberance exhibited at the time by investors chasing the price. there is important information there that needs to be preserved. this is why we use candles or OHLC bars that illustrate the entire range of the months price movement as opposed to a single point. 2. while monthly charts may be your favored timeframe to look at, i think it is important to look at multiple timeframes such as weekly and daily as well when making trading decisions. monthly charts may only reveal favorable trading conditions once a year which is too infrequent for alot of us. this is why i recommend using intermediate timeframes, such as the weekly, to trade in my newsletter. this allows more frequent entry/exit points on the order of perhaps every few months as opposed to once or twice a year which i've found is more popular for active investors. the intermediate timeframe is also long enough to prevent day trading off of the daily chart which can eat your account alive from fees and impulsive decisions. good job though on the charts. |
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After the $30 peak, it took some time before people realised that it had become a bear market.
Exactly. It'll take a while, but eventually I think we're likely to get into the $10 area, and probably lower. I've got all the time in the world. proudhon, tell us at what price you'll actually buy and become a bull. b/c you've been a bear all the way down to $2 and now all the way up to $19 and back down to where we are now. when, oh when? |
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Regarding fees: Just a tiny ($0.25?) ACH fee and a thin buy/sell spread compared to most other US-based services
$0.15 and 1% i'm interested in hearing from someone who's actually used them. i assume you have? so does it take 2-3 days? do they only use ACH? can one use email to initiate a tx? |
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Hope its better than the excruciatingly embarrassing ones of the past.
this will be the first real one is the US right?
Previous conferences are infamous for having been organized by people who have since gone into disrepute - NYC by Bruce Wagner, Prague with involvement from Bitcoin consultancy, London by Nefario and Bitcoin consultancy. But I think all of them were actually quite good (and the first real conference in US is definitely NYC Aug 2011). 1. They have all been reasonably organized, and better with each conference. 2. The organization is just an excuse. It's an important excuse inasmuch as it's what brings people together, but it's actually meeting other people from the community that is important. And we've done plenty of that. Edit: The SAME material covered at these conferences can be found in:
1. this forum (free)
2. Bitcoin Magazine ($8.88...wow)
3. Google (free)
4. Youtube videos (if we're lucky...also Free)
There's your problem, right there. You think conferences are about "material". The material is an excuse to get people to meet (and to get press coverage, too). internet, skype, facebook, youtube, twitter, etc, etc, etc.
!= Meeting in person. yes, unfortunately not understood by many here. shaking someone's hand, looking that person in the eye, expressing one's self with body language, and engaging in one-to-one conversation magically strips out most of the bullshit you get on all those internet channels. that's funny you once again may have misjudged me Cypher. I understand the importance of meeting people in person when TRUST is needed. You forget, this is Bitcoin. No trust is needed. Hence irrelevant to need to go to a bitcoin conference unless you are one of the early adopters that just wants to increase the value of his stash he got for $0.005/BTC. yes, investing in Bitcoin itself doesn't require trust. but investing in other ppl when forming business partnerships does. but lets get back to the point at hand. conferences can be very helpful at multiple levels and $300, unfortunately, is not an outrageous price. there is info to be found out speaking to ppl in corners that won't be found out in public forums like this. pm's, Skype and email can be insecure w/o the proper precautions as you know. plus, when you get alot of ppl together with like mindset, alot of creativity takes place and deals struck. it may sound old fashioned but that's how things work. otoh, i admit technology is changing things as we speak. |
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yes, unfortunately not understood by many here.
shaking someone's hand, looking that person in the eye, expressing one's self with body language, and engaging in one-to-one conversation magically strips out most of the bullshit you get on all those internet channels.
I have closed many bitcoin deals on skype so please explain... just cause you don't shakes someone hand doesn't mean anything welcome to the 21st century its a matter of comfort level and percentages. some of us feel more comfortable assessing risk after having met somebody in person. it may be fine for you to enter highly risky business deals worth lots of money over Skype but not for me. That is where lawyers come into play  If you don't use any lawyers then I see your worry but honestly there is no reason every business deal that could make or break you isn't done with a lawyer in the bitcoin world. what i'm saying has nothing to do with lawyers. in fact, it shouldn't. they are probably the worst ones to rely solely upon to assess partnering up with another Bitcoiner as they have a vested interest in constructing a complex deal in terms of fees. no, the best person to assess the risk of a business partnership is you in a face to face meeting with the potential partner. i'm not talking about small stuff like most of the businesses around here; i'm talking about real businesses involving substantial amounts of money. integrity assessment requires multiple sources of input over time. |
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IMHO the better way is called coinbase.com
You can transfer in/out of any US bank account fast and (almost) free via ACH transfers.
I have no affiliation with them whatsoever other than having sent many new users their way. Unlike some other exchanges run out of basement bedrooms, they are a "real" company, an angel-funded silicon valley startup with a clear business model.
If anyone can survive the inevitable, coming regulatory shakedown they should be among the best postioned. Some may remember that when Paypal first appeared they were almost shut down by regulators for operating as a "bank" (without regulatory approval). It was only their momentum and their ability to pay lawyers that saved them.
i admit i have never tried them. once you are verified, how long does it take to buy Bitcoins thru them if you don't allow them the direct bank account access option? and what is their fee? |
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yes, unfortunately not understood by many here.
shaking someone's hand, looking that person in the eye, expressing one's self with body language, and engaging in one-to-one conversation magically strips out most of the bullshit you get on all those internet channels.
I have closed many bitcoin deals on skype so please explain... just cause you don't shakes someone hand doesn't mean anything welcome to the 21st century its a matter of comfort level and percentages. some of us feel more comfortable assessing risk after having met somebody in person. it may be fine for you to enter highly risky business deals worth lots of money over Skype but not for me. |
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