weaker currencies --> perceived stronger currencies (U.S. Dollar) --> bitcoin
I don't see metals as useful a currency as bitcoin but they will, of course, appreciate against a collapsing dollar - just not as much as bitcoin in my opinion. Bitcoin could be the safety valve that preserves some semblance of a global economy and a somewhat civilized society since it will allow the continued trade across distance (metals not so much).
You're complicating what should be a simple issue. Resources are exchanged to benefit both transacting parties. You're assuming people find Bitcoin valuable as opposed to food, shelter, visa cards, beanie babies, whatever. Metals are more useful than Bitcoins in some circumstances. Not so in others. Same applies to credit cards, and so on. Under what realistic circumstances would Bitcoin "preserve some semblance of a global economy"? Bitcoin will likely be the final (or only) medium of exchange left that will enable people to trade for the food, shelter, etc. It will enable the global trade across distance to continue because it will be the only trusted currency that is not subject to the risk of being "backed" by the "full faith and credit" of bankrupt governments. It will allow the market economy to continue while preventing the total collapse into a barter economy. In short, it will save many from a lot of pain and suffering. And what exactly is bitcoin 'backed' by? Coins and fiat are backed by physical governments and militia. Are you assuming the masses will just put all their 'faith' into a non-reversible, non transparent system backed by anonymous neckbeards should the world crumble? Sounds legit. Bitcoin, like any sound money, needs no backing but the trust of its users. The "masses" will not be given a choice. How exactly is Bitcoin non transparent? How has the 'trust' factor worked out for bitcoin so far?......... I'll wait for the anticipated 'but but millions of new vc investments have been pouring in...' The companies don't care a tad bit about bitcoin at its premise. They simply use it as an immediate medium to convert btc to fiat, so they can continue running their company. As long as they're immediately able to convert it to fiat the instant they receive payment, then they could care less whether's its bitcoin, buttcoin, governmentcoin, or e-coinv4.5. Non transparent is exactly what it states. There's no guarantee that 'joe shmoe' on the other end of a transaction is who he says he is. You do not need a valid drivers license/passport/id to have/acqire/transfer btc. Now try sending/receiving a moneygram or opening up a credit card account without ID and tell me how far that gets you. |
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weaker currencies --> perceived stronger currencies (U.S. Dollar) --> bitcoin
I don't see metals as useful a currency as bitcoin but they will, of course, appreciate against a collapsing dollar - just not as much as bitcoin in my opinion. Bitcoin could be the safety valve that preserves some semblance of a global economy and a somewhat civilized society since it will allow the continued trade across distance (metals not so much).
You're complicating what should be a simple issue. Resources are exchanged to benefit both transacting parties. You're assuming people find Bitcoin valuable as opposed to food, shelter, visa cards, beanie babies, whatever. Metals are more useful than Bitcoins in some circumstances. Not so in others. Same applies to credit cards, and so on. Under what realistic circumstances would Bitcoin "preserve some semblance of a global economy"? Bitcoin will likely be the final (or only) medium of exchange left that will enable people to trade for the food, shelter, etc. It will enable the global trade across distance to continue because it will be the only trusted currency that is not subject to the risk of being "backed" by the "full faith and credit" of bankrupt governments. It will allow the market economy to continue while preventing the total collapse into a barter economy. In short, it will save many from a lot of pain and suffering. And what exactly is bitcoin 'backed' by? Coins and fiat are backed by physical governments and militia. People can protest and throw rocks at politicians when shtf. You can't throw rocks online at miners maintaining the blockchains, or rogue exchange owners known only by internet screennames. Are you assuming the masses will just put all their 'faith' into a non-reversible, non transparent system backed by anonymous neckbeards should the world crumble? Sounds legit. |
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Buy pressure? LOL, look at the order books, the only thing happening with buy pressure is it's reducing by the minute.
With current economy you pretty much have a guarantee we'll see $100 rather sooner than later.
Did you look at the volume at $155? It was the highest we saw in a long time, every other drop encountered just shallow demands and even sells weren't that big because people weren't scared enough. We had huge sells and buys during the last "bottom". Whether that was the bottom remains to be seen, but I'm pretty positive we won't go lower than $180 when this correction waves are over. I'll go out on a limb and say the same 'record market volume' when it hit the $150 low were the same ones flipping for an immediate %50-100 profit upon the coinbase news. Yet another mini pump and dump cycle for immediate profits. The real opposition bitcoin has to face now is how many of the people in it are solely in for investment purposes and not a true faith in the technology? Market psychology will be an uphill battle, because so many of the current holders will be willing to dump at the first sign of a dip and pump. Having to overcome the psychology of an already popped bubble market without having the holders continually dump for profits makes it hard for me to ever envision this stuff hitting 1k again, let alone 500 bucks. |
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Gaud, the last thing i want to do is create another massive thread like the "Gold-I smell a trap" one over in Economics that went on for 5 months. it was just too much work. most ppl here into gold/silver won't like what i have to say so don't bother reading further.
my views haven't changed. i think gold/silver is a relic of the past and Bitcoin will assume its place as a new standard. i think gold drops to $400. i think that we are about to embark on a massive debt deleveraging phase which will be deflationary and take stocks down with it to test the March 09 lows at least. we may drift a few more days higher in the Dow before it rolls over. i see divergences everywhere but especially with the Transports, Russell, and ALL commodities like oil, natural gas, wheat, corn, rice, soybeans, copper and gold/silver. the silver chart especially is busted. the general mining stocks are telegraphing hard times ahead like FCX, TCK, BHP. the junior miners have been devastated as in GDXJ. GDX is following it down.
there's a good chance Wall St and the Fed are desperately trying to manipulate the Dow higher to get retail investors back in but don't buy it. once we roll they will sell/short you into oblivion. the Vix did an underthrow today once again to try and create complacency.
i'm going to try and not say much more as i could be wrong and i know the gold bugs are going to start swarming with the hate.
just gonna put this right here on page one thousand and something. lawl. Such foresight. Much tin foil. Wow! Gold to 400 and bitcoin to el moon they said. Buy buy buy!! since March 13, 2012, Bitcoin has destroyed Gold. theZerg ought to give us an update. Well I can't fault you on your pick and choose time frame. You're right on that. Gold has not crashed to the depths you speak of, though. Not even close. Now the question is, how many people such as yourself had the foresight to buy in big before the rise (many of which had potential realized profits devoured by the Gox debacle). My guess is you're in the minority. |
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First-bitcoin (as it was the most speculative asset)
Second-oil and other commodities
Third-stocks (just started to happen)
Fourth-bonds and real estate (again)-maybe the last, once we are done with deflation.
German 5 year bonds were at negative yields last week, so something has to give.
Hopefully, bitcoin would be the first one to recover, but i don't hope for it too much.
Lol first to recover? Are you seriously comparing a new speculative payment method to fundamental necessity markets? Oil and housing markets will always eventually recover because...humans need houses and gasoline and power. Nobody 'needs' bitcoin to sustain life. You're better off just speculating that BTC will go to the moon 'just because.' if you think that there is a "need" for IBM to be $152, let me tell you -there is no such need. It could be at $50 just as well. In fact, SP500 would function just as fine at 1000 as it is at 2000. There is no "need" for an apartment to be at 15 mil in London. It could be just 1 million, right? The levels that you see are historical in that they have a historical reason to be where they are now, but it does not mean that the asset prices cannot be 50% lower or even 80% lower. So, remind me-what is the "intrinsic" price of oil-is it $100, $80, $45 or $30? As far as bitcoin is concerned-I think that it will recover first, but i have no idea where it will bottom. In fact, if i was at the FED, i would started pumping bitcoin as much as i could as it is the only high velocity asset class with low liquidity (easy to pump) and rising bitcoin might reignite the animal spirits in a market that is just about to either fall asleep or have a coronary. The stock market will always exist. So not sure where you were going with the IBM narrative. I was referring to stocks in general as a basic fundamental of the global economy. The stock market will always exist. Same with apartments. Where did I say anything about particular prices of housing units? The housing market in general is a necessary component of the global economy as well and will never go away. Are you seriously trying to argue that the stock or housing market will one day vanish into thin air? I shouldn't have to hold your hand when explaining intrinsic value. When everything goes south, you can still live in a house. It has value as shelter from outside elements and being...a homeless ass bum. They will always retain value and demand because they are essentials. You CAN NOT say the same about bitcoin. It is not a fundamental component to sustaining life, as it's simply one of other countless alternatives to fiat payments. If bitcoin collapses...you cannot do shit with a 'bitcoin.' It can go to $0. All you have are just a few arbitrary bytes of data on your harddrive, no different than a txt file or email. I suppose if a die hard bitcoiner really wants to get philosophical, they can find sentimental value in a worthless bitcoin should the situation ever arise. That's pretty adorable. Initially i was just arguing about an order in which markets seem to decline, nothing else-it was you who brought up, in my opinion, erroneous notion that there is much of intrinsic value in markets. My point is that this value exist (it is not zero), but it is much, much smaller that you can gather by looking at the current asset prices. How much smaller-it seems that we are about to find out, and by this I mean the next 5-10 years, not tomorrow. My sole argument was that it's pretty irrational to even compare the bitcoin market to the housing or stock market (who also have a much more length and established history) in terms of order decline. In the grand scheme of things, bitcoin is such a new, fledgeling technology that the only certainty is that...there is no certainty. It could be here today, and gone tomorrow. Or it could go on to do wonderful things. But trying to formulate any correlation between it and the cycling stock or housing markets in regards to trending declines, in my opinion, is pretty worthless and as close as you can get to inconclusive. |
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Gaud, the last thing i want to do is create another massive thread like the "Gold-I smell a trap" one over in Economics that went on for 5 months. it was just too much work. most ppl here into gold/silver won't like what i have to say so don't bother reading further.
my views haven't changed. i think gold/silver is a relic of the past and Bitcoin will assume its place as a new standard. i think gold drops to $400. i think that we are about to embark on a massive debt deleveraging phase which will be deflationary and take stocks down with it to test the March 09 lows at least. we may drift a few more days higher in the Dow before it rolls over. i see divergences everywhere but especially with the Transports, Russell, and ALL commodities like oil, natural gas, wheat, corn, rice, soybeans, copper and gold/silver. the silver chart especially is busted. the general mining stocks are telegraphing hard times ahead like FCX, TCK, BHP. the junior miners have been devastated as in GDXJ. GDX is following it down.
there's a good chance Wall St and the Fed are desperately trying to manipulate the Dow higher to get retail investors back in but don't buy it. once we roll they will sell/short you into oblivion. the Vix did an underthrow today once again to try and create complacency.
i'm going to try and not say much more as i could be wrong and i know the gold bugs are going to start swarming with the hate.
just gonna put this right here on page one thousand and something. lawl. Such foresight. Much tin foil. Wow! Gold to 400 and bitcoin to el moon they said. Buy buy buy!! |
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Bitcoin, on the other hand, has no 'intrinsic' value if it crashes. You can't extract a bitcoin out of your harddrive and play with it, or use it as a jacket when it's cold outside. It's sole value stems from its purchasing power, nothing more. It's value is its life support.
But so are company stocks. When a company goes bankrupt, you can't 'turn in' your stock certs and get something in return. They are literally worthless. You can wipe your butt with them, or hang them on your wall so you can periodically cry while looking at them. (actually you can't even get physical stock certs anymore, but that is a different story...) Same with fiat paper and fiat coins. They are worthless unless they are 'valued' by people, or a government simply says they have value. Otherwise they are literally worthless. Agreed. But the 'coins' sentiment needed some clarification. Silver and gold coins will always hold intrinsic value beyond just their face value. Most modern day alloy coins are pretty much worthless in this regard, however (which is exactly why the government started going away from silver). |
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First-bitcoin (as it was the most speculative asset)
Second-oil and other commodities
Third-stocks (just started to happen)
Fourth-bonds and real estate (again)-maybe the last, once we are done with deflation.
German 5 year bonds were at negative yields last week, so something has to give.
Hopefully, bitcoin would be the first one to recover, but i don't hope for it too much.
Lol first to recover? Are you seriously comparing a new speculative payment method to fundamental necessity markets? Oil and housing markets will always eventually recover because...humans need houses and gasoline and power. Nobody 'needs' bitcoin to sustain life. You're better off just speculating that BTC will go to the moon 'just because.' if you think that there is a "need" for IBM to be $152, let me tell you -there is no such need. It could be at $50 just as well. In fact, SP500 would function just as fine at 1000 as it is at 2000. There is no "need" for an apartment to be at 15 mil in London. It could be just 1 million, right? The levels that you see are historical in that they have a historical reason to be where they are now, but it does not mean that the asset prices cannot be 50% lower or even 80% lower. So, remind me-what is the "intrinsic" price of oil-is it $100, $80, $45 or $30? As far as bitcoin is concerned-I think that it will recover first, but i have no idea where it will bottom. In fact, if i was at the FED, i would started pumping bitcoin as much as i could as it is the only high velocity asset class with low liquidity (easy to pump) and rising bitcoin might reignite the animal spirits in a market that is just about to either fall asleep or have a coronary. The stock market will always exist. So not sure where you were going with the IBM narrative. I was referring to stocks in general as a basic fundamental of the global economy. The stock market will always exist. Same with apartments. Where did I say anything about particular prices of housing units? The housing market in general is a necessary component of the global economy as well and will never go away. Are you seriously trying to argue that the stock or housing market will one day vanish into thin air? I shouldn't have to hold your hand when explaining intrinsic value. When everything goes south, you can still live in a house. It has value as shelter from outside elements and being...a homeless ass bum. They will always retain value and demand because they are essentials. You CAN NOT say the same about bitcoin. It is not a fundamental component to sustaining life, as it's simply one of other countless alternatives to fiat payments. If bitcoin collapses...you cannot do shit with a 'bitcoin.' It can go to $0. All you have are just a few arbitrary bytes of data on your harddrive, no different than a txt file or email. I suppose if a die hard bitcoiner really wants to get philosophical, they can find sentimental value in a worthless bitcoin should the situation ever arise. That's pretty adorable. |
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Yes, I think the likely scenario is that, as the global slow-down continues, money will flow to the dollar first since it is perceived by many as the safest asset.
Then precious metals and housing secondly, as they will always maintain 'some' intrinsic value. Trust me, in a true SHTF scenario, NOBODY is going to want or care for bitcoin. They're going to want food, shelter, clothing, and nationally recognized currency that will be accepted anywhere with historical usage that extends back thousands of years: silver and gold. |
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First-bitcoin (as it was the most speculative asset)
Second-oil and other commodities
Third-stocks (just started to happen)
Fourth-bonds and real estate (again)-maybe the last, once we are done with deflation.
German 5 year bonds were at negative yields last week, so something has to give.
Hopefully, bitcoin would be the first one to recover, but i don't hope for it too much.
Lol first to recover? Are you seriously comparing a new speculative payment method to fundamental necessity markets? Oil and housing markets will always eventually recover because...humans need houses and gasoline and power. Nobody 'needs' bitcoin to sustain life. You're better off just speculating that BTC will go to the moon 'just because.' |
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Seems like good news! Announcement Update!There has been a slight change in our closure procedure.Instead of closing CT forever, we have decided to reopen CT after 3 months with a completely new development team and management staff.Till then your balance will remain with us if not withdrawn by 29th Jan. The new management team will contact all users and shareholders in near future.Feel free to contact us at ctnewteam@crypto-trade.com.Thank you for understanding. hahahahahahahaha. cryptorush 2.0. I swear all these scammy sack of shits all use the same 'scam template' every time. |
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Not necessarily...a much greater proportion of people can afford to buy in the lower the price gets. The wealthy can buy that many more. Once the price makes enough of a sharp rise people panic buy and then it just takes off.
Not to mention the block halving in 2016 will cut the number of new bitcoins produced per day in half...
It's just as easy and affordable to buy btc at $5000/btc as it is at $5/btc, you just get more or less btc depending.. It's basic human psychology, or psych 101...people are going to buy more of something when it is cheaper. Not true. If Gold were $0.000001/ounce, no one would want it or care. While I get what you're trying to say, that's not entirely true. Gold is still a physical object and has intrinsic value whether it be decoration or industrial purposes in electronics or as a heat conductor (many supercars use it to line the engine bay). Bitcoin, on the other hand, has no 'intrinsic' value if it crashes. You can't extract a bitcoin out of your harddrive and play with it, or use it as a jacket when it's cold outside. It's sole value stems from its purchasing power, nothing more. It's value is its life support. |
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The empire will fall, most assuredly. So you have all been warned.
Seen this play out the same way with online poker gambling in the U.S. and vague circumventing of existing laws.
Then the feds came through on 'black friday' without warning and slapped a big ol' 'this domain has been seized by the FBI' splash page, and customer funds were gone.
I hope people will learn from the mt. gox debacle and not keep money in coinbase accounts. Just because states haven't taken action yet, does not mean they aren't currently pursuing the issue.
I'll be sure to re-quote this when it happens and slap the hell out of all you who left money in there thinking it couldn't happen.
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I'm a bit perplexed.
I thought bitcoin ownership and conversion is perfectly legal in the U.S. Or is it a state-by-state basis?
Or perhaps he was just doing this unreported and did not pay a single penny of tax on it? If so, then I have no sympathy for him, that's clearly breaking the law.
Ofcourse thats not a whole story. Seriously think hes only buying and selling for his own investment? Thats what he will use for defense. FEDs might have more than that. That's what I'm thinking. Otherwise, FEDs would be having a field day prosecuting thousands of sellers on localbitcoins over the past 2 years. There's got to be more on this story regarding some deeper illicit activities, and most likely tax evasion on a grand scale (which, does not matter whether you're selling bitcoins or shit on ebay...you'll eventually get hit) It is perfectly possible that he traded coins connected to illicit activities, without knowing. Normally people don't talk about that, unless they are really really stupid, or sting agents. And naturally, the Feds will go after the source. Another possibility is that they are going for the big fish first, trying to scare the "thousands of sellers on localbitcoins" because it is a bit too expensive even for big government, to send 35 highly paid henchmen after each of them. This is what the German Bafin is doing, they scare individuals to stop them selling Bitcoins (which is possibly the reason why LBC banned Germany). It is not illegal in Germany to trade BTC without a license on a non-business basis, but the legal threats stop most people because they don't want the hassle and expense.  It's not really expensive since there is a 1/4 million dollar fine and all his bit coins and money and property will be seized as well as all computer equipment I think that's more than enough to cover the price of sending some goons to his house for an hour or two so a nice profit to be made busting anyone else who is doing anything "illegal" in btc Yeah easily..they would be making really good profit out of it..without a doubt.! Going to bust Charlie schrem made them another million usd The silkroad btc seller guy got $950,000 fine as well as some jail iirc That's an easy 2 million from two quick arrests, I assume burtw will be another easy million $ for them Let's not even talk about ross ulbright and his hundreds of millions of dollars worth..... Although they probably wasted more money looking for him You need to take into consideration the money it will cost to prosecute them as well as the cost of a trial. I don't know if it would cost a million dollars or not, however they would need to pay for the DA, the staff in the DA's office, they need to give all the evidence against them to the defendant (this alone probably cost close to a million dollars in Ross's case), pay for court security, for the judge, for the jury (potentially for hotels/meals for the jury if they are sequestered ). The list goes on. Money is not an issue. They already garnered more than enough from the seized coins from the SilkRoad debacle, and I don't even think they've auctioned off all of them, either. The DA's and judges are already under salary lol what are you even talking about? They are government workers. There have been much bigger heists/busts than this prosecuted before. If you think anything phazes or scares the U.S. government, then you are sadly mistaken. |
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nah he'll end up ok this year at some point.  And what will you personally do if it doesn't? lol...I'm sure you (like the rest of these shills) will all pull together and help him pay his heat and water bills, right. As if you guys geniunely care about the welfare of the next man in this 'greater fools' game haha. |
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It's a trade off.
Just like selling tangible goods on ebay vs. craigslist. You pay fees on ebay, but you also get a much much larger target audience so you could get more for an item.
Craigslist you might get more for the same item in person for cash, but the time spent to drive out/deal with possible no-shows almost cancels out the ebay fees.
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Amazing how much praise 2 idiots can garner from being able to play around with millions of dollars of house money courtesy of their parents success.
That's why the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.
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2h,4h,6h, and 12h macD are all telling the same story (and that story is bad). I would strongly suggest cutting your loose right here and now, before it all collapses to the single digits. Or maybe buyback @confirmed bottom of 25$ if you are a mega-bull.
When/if it hits that $25-50 mark again, I may be tempted to buy back in a bit. |
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Any update on the whole bitstamp 'hack' fiasco, and if they've started to pay back customers?
Just seems like the entire cryptorush debacle all over again...no way will people trust them so their business goes down and thus they never pay back customers.
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Does anyone have any money I can borrow?
Not been rekt enough? You panic FOMO on every pump? People confessing lifesavings invested make an emotionally unstable impression. Get rich quick much? Bitcoin has become a pump and dump shitcoin. It's as good as Ricecoin, Spicecoin, Hobocoin or Grumpycoin now. you cant say that its pump and dump shit coin when famous companies use it Maybe I will wait for Amazon to accept then I have a chance of breaking even. Are you still holding all the coins since you started this thread, or did you sell them ? Holding till now must have hurt. They are my retirement fund so yes I am hodling. Great investment decision, dropping all your hard earned future money on one of the most speculative and turbulent mediums out there. And now you want to borrow more money to go even further into the hole with your shitty investment decisions? You sound like one of those compulsive gamblers in vegas that's gambled his life away and now owes the Russian mafia 50k. Go seek a therapist. I'm not trying to insult you, I'm trying to save you. You need these harsh words to wake the hell up. The decisions you've made and continue to make will force you to jump off a bridge soon. Get control of yourself and your life again. Man up!!! |
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