Will there be voting enabled in the first wallet?
This is not planned for the initial release. |
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The whitepaper is very nice, and the devs seem very professional and technical.
Thanks! However, one thing that concerns me, is I don't see actual code on github anywhere.
Why don't you open-source it, so we can see what you're working on?
You are correct that there is no code on github I have however been sharing key parts and class files on this forum. The problem with sharing on github ( at this moment) is because I'm making such huge changes, on a sometimes not even compile-able let alone run-able version of HEAT. Please understand where we started, we took standard NXT and had to take out over 80% of its code. Afterwards we had to fill in all blank parts that NXT solves quite easily by simply embedding their database in the middle. For HEAT all this SQL logic had to be translated into "normal" Java code. Had to be made to run extremely fast, while supporting many thousands of txns a second. To be honest.. what's that like is that i have to code over parts three or four times sometimes (see my comments and source code, in this thread, for how we solved the mem-pool - which had to be done over). So hope you'll understand we'll release source code when its at least a complete package. -------- That said.... in case you are an experienced java coder? And willing to support me by reviewing key parts of our software, please drop me a PM and I'll make sure you get the parts that need reviewing. |
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We are aiming for extremely low transaction fees, as low as possible basically.
But since we don't yet know the market cap HEAT will have at launch we can't decide on those yet.
But if the market cap increase 100x then the transaction fee will be 100 times as expensive. If the fee is not a problem after having increased 10000 % then it was probably too low in the beginning for people to secure the network. NXT has a low fee now but the hard coded fee is 1 NXT, and if the market cap ever reaches 1 billion then the fee for every transaction will be $1. It will probably never reach a market cap of 10 billion because people wouldn't be willing to pay $10 for every transaction. An optimal Heat Ledger fee now will probably not be an optimal fee a few years from now. Why not do something else like letting the users decide what the most optimal fee will be? A kind of voting/consensus mechanism. To me that seems to be much better than having to change the code of the protocol when the fee in dollar terms becomes too high or too low. Don't worry please. You will not be paying 10 euro for every transaction. As said there are various cost levels, in these 'levels' existing accounts can send transactions to existing accounts at almost no cost! Which i believe is a very good thing.But HEAT is also at a risk here, especially now the market cap is low. While probably all other crypto-currencies can be crippled and made unresponsive or simply be made to break down just by sending a whole load of transactions to them, HEAT has solved this inherent weakness. But it has not become free to send transactions entirely. Some operations (like i said - sending to a new account for instance) still need to be somehow protected against misuse.. And thats exactly what fees in a POS system are meant for, to prevent misuse. So while basically anyone can do 99% of operations (assuming you send 99 transactions to existing accounts) at almost no cost, there simply MUST be a significant cost related to sending new accounts. Which, as far as I understand, can only be kept as a miuse prevention if its cost indeed are somehow too significant to ignore. So this does require us to adjust fees when market cap rises, adjust them down of course. But i dont see a problem with that at all, since it doesn't involve any changes for any one sending transactions to existing accounts. |
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I'm wondering what the transaction fee will be? I hope that it isn't a hardcoded fee where an increase in the price also means an increase in the fee. That could quickly become very expensive if the price rises 10x or 100x. Maybe a kind of built in voting mechanism would work. Probably better than making a hardfork every time the fee has to be changed.
We are aiming for extremely low transaction fees, as low as possible basically. But since we don't yet know the market cap HEAT will have at launch we can't decide on those yet. All transaction costs reflect the actual cost those transactions have on the network. There is a class of extremely cheap transactions. - send payment to existing account - transfer asset to existing account - place buy order/sell order A slightly more expensive class of transactions involves anything that creates a permanent addition to the shared storage among all peers, you should think of these in that case. - anything that creates a new account+balance - anything that creates a new asset Right now transaction fees are hardcoded, but extremely low. The idea here is that anyone can send transactions at almost no cost, yet still allow the network to favor higher fees over lower fees whenever there is so much traffic that we need to start deciding who gets in and who not. But reaching that level soon is extremely unlikely since we for instance allow for 30,000 transaction blocks (NXT has 256). By design HEAT of course can support much lower transaction fees than comparable crypto-currency frameworks that have not solved the blockchain size storage issue. Also have you considered changing the name? When I search for Heat Ledger on google I get results about the dead actor Heath Ledger.
I'm sure the marketing department will have a look at that. Thanks for the input. |
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This thread is very free from nonsense pumpers and fudders. It's quite nice.  Are those flames supposed to come out there? It sure looks cool, but that can't be good for the paint right. |
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Dennis did you ever work with Kushti on NXT?
I don't believe we have worked together directly, indirectly yes probably. Also is Scorex something that can be used for testing on HEAT?
Can't think of any way to do that. No. I think Waves used it as its blockchain.
Thats correct, waves is a scorex clone. |
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I wish to prepare to set up a Hallmark node so to participate in POP.
I have a dynamic IP internet service.
So how can i approach this?
What could be the minimum requirements for the first year?
Should i get a VPS through Amazon or do you have suggestions on a cheap stable service that would provide the minimum requirements.
I assume then i run this hallmark and then lease my balance to it?
So it runs POS and POP or is that not so safe and they should be separate?
If you look around, you'll find cloud hosting arrangements for as low as 2,50 EUR a month. Pretty sure at those prices this will be profitable. I'll have to look into the dynamic IP part, not sure yet how that works out. Will there be any specific hardware requirements for POP? You need free-disk space and an internet connection.. Thats it basically (for now) |
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I wish to prepare to set up a Hallmark node so to participate in POP.
I have a dynamic IP internet service.
So how can i approach this?
What could be the minimum requirements for the first year?
Should i get a VPS through Amazon or do you have suggestions on a cheap stable service that would provide the minimum requirements.
I assume then i run this hallmark and then lease my balance to it?
So it runs POS and POP or is that not so safe and they should be separate?
If you look around, you'll find cloud hosting arrangements for as low as 2,50 EUR a month. Pretty sure at those prices this will be profitable. I'll have to look into the dynamic IP part, not sure yet how that works out. |
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My only concern with HEAT is perhaps over confidence.
Great tech...
Great Plan...
For those who are watching and participating there is an excitement especially as it maybe a superior Ardor and from a NXT basis it is great tech.
I have spoken with FIMK participants and so far all are very happy and excited with the new plan. They know the tech is good and under noticed.
But when everything is running smoothly and the tech and the plan is being pushed out there and confidence is high.
One or two errors can kill a new platform.
TESTING TESTING TESTING. Caution. Concern, Pressure forges a good team and community.
Is there a test net where we can put pressure on the system.
Can the plan and the tech be placed under rigorous pressure so that any new release and especially the first year exceeds expectations?
This might be a matter of aesthetics, but please lay off the [ b ] tag from now. I CAN READ YOU LOUD AND CLEAR  But anyways.. Testing is the pillar of any good software project, you and me agree on that 101% You might have noticed me throwing around these numbers.. 500K reads per second, 200K writes per second... The only reason we have that stuff is since we write tests for everything. In fact, i'm actually spending more time writing tests than i'm actually writing code. Which in it itself is not at all a weird thing. Ask any developer and he/she 'll tell you the same thing. There will be a testnet, most likely before the main net! And everyone is welcomed to break it. In fact I'm inviting anyone even to break it, we'll even provide you with free test-net-HEAT, just drop us a PM/email and we're all for that. |
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Private assets has been operational in FIMK for quite some time now. Some interesting readings from Svante (our project lead) on the topic. Noticed that going through the private-assets discussion we started on nxtforum. It's not entirely about private assets, but does give an insight to how and why we came up with the enhancement to the standard NXT AE in the first place. Distributed Cryptographic Ledger as Proprietary Fiat E-payment Platform
Executive summary, Svante Lehtinen, FIMKrypto Nov 14th 2014 https://nxtforum.org/asset-exchange/private-assets-for-use-in-financial-institutions/msg172576/#msg172576 |
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@thezman007: Thanks for your feedback. You talk about private asset transactions. Will those tx's be viewable/searchable by anyone?
Your interpretation of "private" as in private assets is understandable. But it isn't the kind of private we talk about. Private assets means its an asset that cannot be sold to anyone or traded among anyone, that isn't allowed to do so by the asset issuer.A private asset issuer himself determines who is allowed to trade in those assets and the protocol simply denies anyone who is not on the "allowed" list to receive that asset or even place a buy order. See this link for when I first introduced the concept (includes some more business oriented views on the matter from our project lead) https://nxtforum.org/asset-exchange/private-assets-for-use-in-financial-institutions/What about using your Smart Vouchers to help solve Gift Card hacking problems. If you are not aware of them. Starbucks and other cards come on the market all the time on sites like bitify.com for 10-20% of their value in BTC. These were hacked or bought with stolen credit cards. Maybe HEAT can help corporations use your Smart Vouchers to make sure the right person is cashing in the card  Thats an excellent use case, havent even thought of it being used that way. But yes indeed, the power in the smart vouchers is of the course the smart part. Which enables the issuer to remotely disable the voucher validity. Will your challenger account be open source?
The challenge happens with little room for the challenger account, it can only act according to the rules defined by the protocol (for anyone interested please see the details about this in our whitepaper - James (jl777/supernet) actually helped me with that part  ). We are unclear right now whether the actual challenge generation code will run as a Distributed Services script or if we include it in the java code. Or a combination of those even. In both cases, like with everything HEAT makes, it will be made available on our github repositories. Thanks guys, saw the interview, though in dribs and drabs at work and what I saw was good. Keep up the good work.
Thanks! and will do! |
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Yes it would be incredible to sell out and make the full ICO in the next 4 days.
Looking forward to the interview.
But my view is most online interviews suck.
Better to just set up a camera and whiteboard behind you...
Have some one read a question and then answer for the camera and write the answer or discussion on the white board.
You could break the whole white paper like this in one go or break it up to multiple videos.
Once you have this set up then the major forum questions could be handled the same way.
- read out the question and go into detail in answering including white board answers.
Start a youtube channel and off and running.
Don't have a whiteboard at hand where I'm doing the interview. Good idea non-the less (about setting up a HEAT channel). Who knows, we might have a HEAT media productions wing soon. I'm sure the Core TV guys know what they are doing. |
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How can you have chains of blockchains, or chains of "slices" of the blockchain..isnt this creating a form of a centralised ledger?
Each segment comes with a balance store. [In HEAT transactions are stored separately from balances] New users do need all balance stores (which are 1/10,000 the size of a transaction store). It's through all these balance stores (which are cryptographic linked to each other - uses checksums of balances) that a user can download just a last blocks segment and then validate all balance stores and that final segment are valid. Then he/she could join the network, if however he did get a 'fake' version. He/she would land on a fork. Many ways outside the blockchain exist to confirm if you are on a fork or not. [This described the light and quick setup] An more secure (optional) method is if you download all transactions from the network (which could potentially run in the many TB - but this is up to the user) and process them all yourself. Don't worry if you dont have a multi TB harddisk, you only need to download the transaction once and after a while (while you download the remaining transactions) we will start deleting any earlier (already applied transactions) no need to keep those around. To ensure new users could download all transactions from the network.. The protocol pays you if you can prove you hold certain sections of archived transactions. The least people serving a certain section of the archived transactions.. the higher the protocol reward! |
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... which will eventually lead to blockchains (and the HEAT chain in a significant part of them) used all over the globe in millions of applications. And then we (and the shareholders, but maybe for different reason!) will be happy  I know one reason! There will plenty more of these!  Tasted great btw |
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the dao is dead cause they got hacked.... hey they had a big team of professionell guys. so what is this?
You tell me. Perhaps it's because they had no academic backgrounds.  |
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What do all these solutions have in common? - segregated witness - sharding - blockchain pruning - lightning network  They all solve the inherent problem that each crypto-currency or blockchain network faces.. Which is the inability to keep around all transactions since genesis till now, no machine in the world exists that allows that. Let alone cheap machines required to run a world wide decentralized network - operated by normal people - not multi-million dollar banks!But why keep those transactions around in the first place? Why do crypto currencies need access to all past transactions? Why can't the decentralized consensus mechanism function with access to balances alone (and some past transactions - but not all of them). The real reason most currencies can't function without access to that data.... Is since they are designed from the ground up to have to have access to that data for their consensus algo's to function. But can we blame them? Did they know what scale crypto-currencies could reach one day? No! Of course not. But it is a problem non-the-less. If there is anything that HEAT adds to this, it's that we designed HEAT from the ground up to not depend on past transactions. This comes at a cost (initially ... but will be solved eventually). - we can't do referenced transactions like NXT does (doesn't scale) - we can't do ETH contracts in the form Ethereum does them (doesn't scale) - we can't do Bitcoin multi-sig in the form Bitcoin does it (doesn't scale) Does this mean we can't have smart contracts? multi-sig? or conditional transactions? By no means, the answer is we can support those things. But extreme care has to be applied to not lock the HEAT blockchain into promising functionality that later needs to be disabled or rolled back. Simply since it doesn't scale anymore! In part... I believe this is what HEAT is about. And kudos to the dev for providing a bunch of info back.
Kudos back |
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Some progress on the unconfirmed transaction (or mem-) pool [This is one of the last BIG problems we had to solve..]The previous post turned out not to be the solution, it simply wouldn't scale. Happy to say we now 'really' have a working solution. Trick was to construct the pool as a linked list and to use smart on demand sorting on addition. This also solves our need that during block apply-ing valid and applied transactions can be removed very fast during iteration. And allows for filtered iteration to kick out expired transactions. And allows to put a max size on the pool so the expulsion algorithm can kick out transactions overflowing the maximum allowed (to mitigate DDOS attacks). Finally we now have hooks to persist transactions to disk (have to do that ourselves since the database was removed). And it supports transactional operations required to rollback in case of validation errors or to recover from system crashes. The list itself, with active on-demand sort as you insert, has shown to do 12,000,000 operations a second (most likely double or triple that on a decent server). This was tested with the default pool size of 600,000 transactions that fit in the HEAT mem-pool. With real transactions this will become slightly slower because of the need to persist data to the memory mapped data store. But the most important thing... the mem-pool will not be slower than any other part of the HEAT framework. Which was the main goal.For the nerds: HeatSortedLinkedList.java [tip of the day! if you ever need to do a standard datastructure, look in the actual JVM source code for samples!] In regards to qualifying HEAT as a 3rd Generation platform, here is an interesting video with a 3rd generation definition. Mainly first ten minutes..
I'm a bit behind on schedule because of the mentioned difficulties. I'll get back to this later. |
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