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121  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: Mt.Gox Multi-plaintiff Suit on: February 25, 2014, 08:20:04 PM
Do we know if this has been served on Gox yet?
122  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: Mt. Gox law firm on: February 25, 2014, 08:19:06 PM
Hopefully this is accurate.

In the Coinlab suit according to the filing they were represented by the following:

Baker & McKenzie, LLP
Hillis Clark Martin & Peterson, PS

http://www.plainsite.org/dockets/index.html?id=2433935


Thanks, I've amended the original post. I'm interested in their Japanese law firm who would represent them in an action in Japan.
123  Bitcoin / Legal / Mt. Gox law firm on: February 25, 2014, 05:38:33 PM
Does anyone know which Japanese law firm has been representing Mt. Gox?
124  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: How to put Mt. Gox into involuntary bankruptcy in Japan. on: February 25, 2014, 04:12:43 PM
Nagle - would you be willing to repost your original under Legal. I think it might get more of the attention it deserves there.

I agree this is the best option now for all parties. If Mt. Gox is solvent, they can then prove it to the court and continue with their merger/re-branding plans.
125  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: NEWS onMTGOX site !!https://www.mtgox.com/ on: February 25, 2014, 03:44:32 PM
Yes, but why couldn't they have put this up last night instead of a blank page. The PR incompetence knows no bounds.
126  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / A possible reaction to lawsuit/injunction/involuntary bankruptcy? on: February 25, 2014, 06:10:31 AM
Another possible explanation of the recent Mt. Gox problems occurs:

Could it be that they were just served today with papers regarding a lawsuit with an injunction, or an involuntary bankruptcy. This combined with a perhaps petulant reaction by Mark Karpeles?

Many commentators here have complained for a long time about the continued trading for a long time in the presence slowed or absent withdrawals.

An injunction or involuntary bankruptcy proceedings might well require immediate suspension of trading. Additionally, there may have been part of an order demanding the removal of the misleading (at best) statements on the front page.

And if you were going to skip town, why call attention to it by suspending the website?

127  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: Mt.Gox Multi-plaintiff Suit on: February 24, 2014, 05:05:30 PM
And in any case, it looks like the people who are going to file this suit are going to file it, so debates here are likely not going to affect that.
128  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: Mt.Gox Multi-plaintiff Suit on: February 24, 2014, 05:04:19 PM

Getting them to "explain" things to a Japanese court unfamiliar with Bitcoins sounds like a nightmare process to me.
It's entirely possible the court would go for the simplest (and dumbest) of options and force conversion of all BTC to yen at some low exchange rate for the purposes of resolving this in a way familiar to them.  That would be unfortunate for MTGox BTC holders.

...

I have significant holdings of BTC on MTGox, and I'm more concerned about the risks of premature legal action than anything.  


The appropriate settlement in the case of property owed is fair market value. That's pretty standard in a legal settlement. I agree there is some subtlety there with BTC, but I have more faith in the bankruptcy court figuring it out eventually and fairly (it will take some time) than I do in Mt. Gox at this point.
129  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: How to put Mt. Gox into involuntary bankruptcy in Japan. on: February 24, 2014, 02:41:27 AM
Very good to know. Thanks for putting that up. It looks like it may be the quickest and cheapest way to get some supervision for them.
130  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: Criminal complaint against Mt. Gox and Mark Karpeles on: February 24, 2014, 02:36:00 AM
The main point of a criminal prosecution is to be the company in the hands of someone else. A court-appointed individual. While that may be slow, very slow, it would at least likely have some accounting done.
131  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: Mt.Gox Multi-plaintiff Suit on: February 23, 2014, 04:34:14 AM


A lawsuit which isn't going to be determined for a very long time isn't going to influence the behaviour of other services now.  If it was, then MtGox would already have changed its behaviour as conversion, negligence and breach of contract are all causes of action in the Cartmell et al lawsuit against Bitcoinica.

It's also only going to "serve as a warning to others" at some time in the future if the plaintiffs actually prevail.  If they don't, then it's only going to further entrench undesirable behaviour by Bitcoin services.


Probably best to attack them on both the civil and criminal fronts simultaneously. I'm not a fan of regulation, as it borders on prior restraint, though I certainly think we should bring all legal means to bear once the crime or tort has been committed.
132  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: Mt.Gox Multi-plaintiff Suit on: February 23, 2014, 04:30:14 AM
The reason for the 5% fee is explained very well.  They can't send from their normal bank, and have to transfer the funds via domestic transfer first.  This makes two currency exchange fees at 2.5% each, which is a common currency exchange fee in Japanese banks.  USD -> JPY -> USD.  You are obliged to cover the bank fees (see the ToS).  You can find the currency exchange fee the multi-currency trading FAQ.

Is it explained properly for a new user who creates an account and then sells some bitcoin, expecting to receive the proceeds? I believe that will be the question before the court in determining if there is a fraudulent inducement. Maybe I missed it, but the last time I looked there was not even a mention of the manual withdrawal and 5% fee on the main withdrawal process pages.

Those of us who read the forums or the IRC may discover these things, but those don't strike me as reasonable disclosure.
133  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: Criminal complaint against Mt. Gox and Mark Karpeles on: February 23, 2014, 12:15:44 AM
A very interesting post by Prof. Lenz on how Mt. Gox may be a bank under Japanese law, and therefore subject to possible significant criminal penalties:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1ylnso/has_mtgox_already_reported_to_the_japanese_prime/
134  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Breaking: MtGox Now Testing Bitcoin Withdrawals on: February 22, 2014, 06:35:35 PM
Some running an exchange this incompetently shouldn't be on the board of the Bitcoin Foundation.

Please everyone sign the petition: https://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/petition-to-remove-mark-karpeles-from-the-board-of-the-bitcoin-foundation

It doesn't cost anything and only takes a few moments of your time.
135  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: MtGox testing withdrawals on: February 22, 2014, 06:34:07 PM
However this will end, Fat K. should be suspended from the Board.
So, sign this:
https://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/petition-to-remove-mark-karpeles-from-the-board-of-the-bitcoin-foundation

Please everyone, sign the petition. Someone running an exchange this badly shouldn't be on the board.
136  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: Mt.Gox Multi-plaintiff Suit on: February 22, 2014, 05:23:09 PM
The delays in fiat withdrawals continue, particularly for USD. Since these are not properly disclosed (or even the need to pay the 5% fee for a "manual withdrawal") on the website, I think one could go ahead other incidental damages and certainly interest on the amounts involved for the length of the delay.

The fraud-like aspects, not properly disclosing, could be strong grounds for additional damages (at least if Japanese law is similar to the US in this regard).

Please continue the lawsuit. They need to pay damages for the delays and it will serve as a warning to others.
137  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: [Insider Information]Mark Karpeles is involved in an upcoming Bitcoin investment on: February 22, 2014, 01:00:55 AM
Anyone who would do business with Karpeles is an idiot.

Absolutely right. The evidence of his competence, or lack thereof, is abundantly clear!
138  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: Raising BTC to get Mark Karpeles called a bitch face to face on: February 22, 2014, 12:58:40 AM

Hey, I don't see anyone else doing anything about it except standing outside that place with signs saying "where is my money".


I think the more effective thing is legal action, both civil and criminal. This incompetence has gone on long enough now.
139  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Is this MtGox's NTXID testing in action??? on: February 22, 2014, 12:57:03 AM
I guess all the FUDsters will say this ntxid testing is just a smoke screen.

I would say the fact that it is still not working is just a sign of ongoing incompetence. Seems they will be in legal trouble soon enough though.
140  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: Mt.Gox Multi-plaintiff Suit on: February 22, 2014, 12:46:07 AM
Please open donation, a Bitcoin donation preferably.

The purpose of this law suit is not just to get your money out of Mt Gox. If you just want to get your money out of Mt Gox, you can sell your GoxCoin for real Bitcoin. But it's rather to tell another Bitcoin exchange that you may get into trouble if you mess with people's money.

I am pretty sure people will support this and give bitcoin donation even they are not Mt Gox customer.

Yes, exchanges need to know that if they continue with this type of incompetence and with large sums, eventually people will take legal action and force them to behave reasonably.

I will donate to help defray costs.
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