Bump Still Buying Please PM if Interested!

Its just a simple bot I created using WinAutomation. Unless you have the program, you can't read the source... it's their own propriatary "waj" format. The only other option I can output is an EXE, which is what I use. It runs as a sidecar to chrome or firefox.

You can see if you can download a free trial, I could then post the source waj project file for you. (That way you can read it for your safety - as while my EXE is totally non-malicious I would never recommend using an EXE file from someone on a site like that where it could steal coins.

But long short of it is, you set your base, it rolls, and follows the rules. Add base to each bet until win, double 3 times, reset. Rather simple.

Its slow though, but I dont code js or c+ so my coding ability is limited in that sense.

Ive been playing 1000 usually. Sometimes 2000, sometimes 500 (satoshis)

This is the chart I created which shows the possible progression for the betting pattern.

If you look at the max loss vs payout, it can be a good way to play, and is also customizable, you could do 4x streaks, or even 5x. Depending on your bankroll.

3 seems to be the best overall for me, it has the least amount of up and down swings in balance.

I have run this with my bot starting at 100k satoshi a number of times, and a half day later the balance is 400k to 600k.

Here is the link to the chart:

Yea of course duration of play in terms of rounds does come in to play, so you went down on 2.2; but you (and of course you know) could have come back up; as luck does fall into the equation.

Another variant you can try; is to play for 4 consecutive wins, or 5 consecutive wins.

At 2x payout (49.50% chance of win); your maximum loss per roll is limited to whatever you set your base bet at provided you play through to a win of X (number of consecutive wins) you decide on in the begining.

So if you say decide on a base of 10000 satoshi you could see a bet sequence to win as follows:

FOR A LOSING SEQUENCE AIMING FOR 4 WINS:

0.00010000 LOSE
0.00020000 LOSE
0.00030000 LOSE
0.00040000 LOSE
0.00050000 WIN     (AT WHICH POINT YOU HAVE ROLLED 5 ROLLS / NET P/L IS NOW -0.00050000   (0.00010000 PER ROLL)
0.00100000 WIN
0.00200000 WIN
0.00400000 LOSE   (EVEN THOUGH YOU HAVE LOST; YOU HAVE STILL ONLY RISKED AND LOST 0.00050000 YET PLAYED 9 ROLLS = LOSS OF LESS THAN 0.00006000 PER ROLL

NOW FOR A WINNING SEQUENCE:

0.00010000 LOSE
0.00020000 LOSE
0.00030000 WIN    (AT WHICH POINT YOU HAVE ROLLED 3 ROLLS / NET P/L IS NOW 0.00000000   (0.00000000 PER ROLL)
0.00060000 WIN
0.00120000 WIN
0.00240000 WIN   NET WIN:    +0.00420000

REGARDLESS; It doesnt matter how many losses you have before you hit your win streak; your maximum loss per roll is limited by this strategy to your base bet x # of rolls.

Martingale is too risky, a long loss streak wipes you out. But with this strategy, as long as you calculate a safe number of being able to hit some bad losing streaks in a row; as in losing 8x then 10x then 5x then 7x before hitting an actual win/reset- the payout is much higher.

For Martingale, to net 0.00420000 in profit, you have to win 42 martingale series runs; without doubling up every roll and busting out.

This works much better.

I built a bot that does the betting and calculating and resetting all on it's own. It works great and havent lost thus far (knock on wood).

Looking to purchase unused/unwanted PrimeDice accounts with decent faucet levels.

Have an old account you no longer use? Have an account that you dont use your faucet on?

Paying rates based on 300-500x Faucet Value (So if you don't expect to draw your faucet 300-500 times turn the account into BTC!)

Following Rates:

Faucet Level:    0.00002000       Will Pay:        0.00500000BTC
Faucet Level:    0.00002500       Will Pay:        0.01000000BTC
Faucet Level:    0.00003000       Will Pay:        0.01250000BTC
Faucet Level:    0.00004000       Will Pay:        0.01500000BTC
Faucet Level:    0.00005000       Will Pay:        0.02250000BTC
Faucet Level:    0.00007500       Will Pay:        0.04000000BTC
Faucet Level:    0.00010000       Will Pay:        0.05000000BTC

Send me a PM if interested!  Please include just approximate faucet value and lets make a deal!

 

You get paid in knowledge, learning that it's best not to gamble, especially not with money you can't afford to lose.

I dont know.

Would you agree with this:

I think, for whatever reason, it is "easier" have 0.00005000 and bet that up to 0.01000000 than it would be to start with 0.05 and build that up to 10.00 BTC. The factor is the same, a 200x increase. But players all the time on sites use thhe faucet and get a few 1000 satoshi and build it up to the 0.01+ territory.  I dont know many who build 0.01 to 20 BTC.  or 0.10 to 200 BTC.

Thoughts?

Thats the conclusion I came to. Not just the roll, but every roll which you will roll in order from the time you roll your first roll with a client seed. The outcomes/roll #s could be output into a spreadsheet and they would know (or their system) every roll forward.

So I guess back to what I've asked a few times... but no one touches the subject. The sites all claim, including PrimeDice that they have a sophisticated "random number generator" to determine the roll outcome. But random means just that. A roll could be "anything".

A random roll means this next roll could come up as "any outcome" because it is random.

But if the seed is set. You can't change it. The roll has already been determined. The house knows it. It is a number which has already been determined. This does not fit the definition of random.

It seems the only "aspect" of the randomness is you can set your own seed. But they still know. And you're limited to changing it once every 10 minutes or so.

So the rolls are not random.

I agree the house could not change the nonces/seeds. But they have certainly have the ability to "pull the plug" and claim "server outage", technical failure, upgrade, internet out, etc, and stay down/offline for a while, hoping that the dark time will get the player who say had a "big" win coming up based on his betting increases/roll behavior (rolling all low, all high, swapping back and forth), to reset his bet to base or start with a different pattern of bets.

Its not about the house changing the client seed.

My question is regarding "random" which no one seems to address.

We have a client seed. Set on the website, by the client. This remains static for at least 15 minutes because once it is set, you cant change it again. After 1 roll, the house will know the client seed because it had to use it to hash the roll.

The server seed. They know this as well.

The nonce is nothing but bet # while using current client seed, incrementally increasing by 1 each roll.

Therefore, after 1 roll, the house can essentially see every outcome of every roll immediatly if I understand this correctly. (I am not sure I do though).

They have all 3 parts of the equation. Client Seed / Server Seed / Nonce...

Its not about a lot of work, its automation and computation. A computer could analyze 100s of players, 1000s of rolls, in a second, and triggers could be set for certain negative to house outcomes. Its not manual labor. Its computational processing, fast servers crunching lots of numbers very quickly.

Again, where is random?

Well the user (at least on PrimeDice) can only set the seed the every 10 or 15 minutes, there is a time limit, once you have changed it you have to wait. I read a post online (I think on reddit) and the primcedice management said basically (in regards to why they implemented the "you have to wait 15 minutes") is because there was a player or players that were re-seeding their client seed every bet and for some reason this was not good for prime dice. So once you set it, you have to use it for X time.

So then it would be true. If a player is betting for a 9900x low to win, and doing an incremental increase on bets (long format martingale), the house, knowing your seed, their seed, and the nonce (which they would know because its the bet number, or set for each bet, but regardless it's given to you by them so they would know well in advance...

A basic future cashflow predection with expected outcomes style report could be generated and if a huge landslide win is in the cards for the player, (if the player doesnt re-seed) then they could stop it. Simply put, they could see:  Player X is going to win bet 40,401 at 9900x and will win a huge amount, reset server, down for maintenance, re-set new seed required on reboot.

Yes?

EDIT:  To add, I'm not making any accusations, theres been no wrong doing. Im just curious about it, and want to better understand "how" it is "provably fair".

I still dont understand where the random number "is" or "comes from". That hasnt been mentioned. The nonce is known, yes it changes, but it's known thus not random. They know the client and server, thus not random. Where, is the random?

So if its not economically feasible to crack the hashes for a dice site, what about this scenario:

Assuming the following to be true:

Being the server seed is known. The client seed is known, or would be known after the first roll. And the nonces would or certainly could be known (because they are generated by the site for each roll):

And the nonce is based on the roll number using the current "client seed":

A site could very well do the following:

Being they know the above:   They could analyze a players behavior of betting patterns. If they are martingale betting, or doubling every 3rd bet. Or even a long run martingale (not on 2x, but lets a 9900x with a 0.00125 increase per roll (using a bot).

Knowing the 3 seeds in advance and analyzing the betting pattern of the player couldnt they easilly be able to tell the outcome of every roll forward? The only variable would be roll high or roll low, which the player could change.

If what I've said first makes sense, and second is correct, they could easilly see if a huge win is x bets down the line of betting (and where) and if they player has the bankroll/will have the bankroll to keep rolling to that nonce.

If they saw this (lets say a 9900x bet) and it was going to win 40,000 bets from now, and was within the limits of the bankroll of the player (and would result in a huge payout/win), they could easilly then throw a "reset/halt" into the session.

I've played before where it stops rolling and on refresh of the page, its down for a few seconds, then it makes you "with a pop up" set a new client seed" to bet again.

Possible?

Faucet Level:     0.00002000       I will pay:       0.00500000BTC
Faucet Level:     0.00002500       I will pay:       0.01000000BTC
Faucet Level:     0.00003000       I will pay:       0.01250000BTC
Faucet Level:     0.00004000       I will pay:       0.01500000BTC
Faucet Level:     0.00005000       I will pay:       0.02250000BTC
Faucet Level:      0.00007500       I will pay:       0.04000000BTC

It works out roghly as a median price (average of say faucet = 3000):

416 Faucet Draws in terms of Value =

@ 3 Minutes Minimum Wait = 20 Hours =

If you value your faucet (meaning you play your faucet a lot) at your time's value of more than $0.40 an hour = More

profitable to sell than keep. As you can only earn $0.40 an hour and thats factoring your draw exactly every 3 minutes.

In addition, if I buy an account from you, I'll also extend a referral commission if you refer any other sellers of accounts to me of 15% of the price I pay them for the accounts just for sending them my way.

Thanks for your interest!

Bump

Still looking to buy PrimeDice accounts with faucets that can draw >0.00002000

PM me if interested!

Thanks!

Thanks for the detailed reply.  They dont use sha256 however, they use sha512, not sure if that matters. I had read that 512 was less secure.

The server/site doesnt know the client seed in advance?

You make set your own seed/make it what you want it to be, and click submit.

So theres no way the website, server, who you enter that information into and click submit, could possibly get that seed?

Its a webform. You're submitting a variable and clicking send.

Are we just taking their word for it that they would never "peek" at our cards?

Also, wouldnt they in addition regardless if the above is correct, that they would have no way to see what we click to send to them, wouldnt they know our seed after one roll? They would have to hash roll 1 in order to get the outcome.

So I've been giving thought to the concept of provably fair, and having read up on it, I still question if it's possible to prove that the rolls on dice sites are in fact fair by absolute proof.

I'll use PrimeDice as the example, just because that's where I've been playing.

PrimeDice States:

Primedice offers state of the art verification which allows our users to check the integrity of every roll and confirm they are not manipulated. Our random numbers are generated through the use of two seeds, a server seed, and your client seed. The server seed is created before you specify your client seed, ensuring that a server seed purposely in our favor cannot be generated. Together, along with the nonce (# of bets made with seed pair), the seeds are used to create a provably fair roll number within the 0-99.99 range.

Now that said.

So a server seed is set first. PrimeDice knows this seed as does the user. Now the user can set a client seed. PrimeDice also knows this seed the moment it is set. Lastly, a nonce is created with each passing roll. Which PD would know as they generate it at the time of the roll.

So with the site, having all three seeds, the server seed, the client seed, and the nonce hash pattern that's generated based off roll number (the last of which the user does not know until after the roll but the site knows before the roll); the site would seem to have the advantage to controll the outcomes of rolls (whether altogether or to a certain degree).

The hash algorithm is posted on the site as well. Now is the nonce simply the roll number, or a more complex number generated off the roll number as an integer?

Because if the player knew the server seed hash, client seed hash and nonce, couldnt the rolls be pre-determined? 

Their FAQ says that after the player sets a "new seed", they are then revealed the hash of the last server seed so they can verify bets. The site would know this hash before the roll correct? It's given to the player only afterwards. The site would know their hash after the first wager is made correct? Because once the roll is committed and played, the hash has to exist and the server seed does not change every bet. It is constant. The constant server seed seems to be the biggest mystery of all. Shouldnt a new seed be set each time? Again, I just dont understand where the random comes in. And in theory randomness is questionable in and of itself.  How is this random number generated, where does it come from, using what process?

Sorry I'm not accusing I hope I don't sound that way, I'm just asking. Does the player have the same information as the site at the time the roll is made? 

Lastly, where does the random number come into play for each roll?  If the client seed, and server seed is pre-determined prior to the roll. And the nonce is known as well, what point would a random number do as there is no way to know if the number being issued as "random" is in fact random at all. 

They state regard "the roll"

To create a roll number, Primedice uses a multi-step process to create a roll number 0-99.99. Both client and server seeds and a nonce are combined with hmac-sha512(server_seed, client_seed-nonce) which will generate a hex string. The nonce is the # of bets you made with the current seed pair. First five characters are taken from the hex string to create a roll number that is 0-1,048,575. If the roll number is over 999,999, the proccess is repeated with the next five characters skipping the previous set. This is done until a number less than 1,000,000 is achieved. In the astronomically unlikely event that all possible 5 character combinations are greater, 99.99 is used as the roll number. The resulting number 0-999,999 is applied a modulus of 10^4, to obtain a roll number 0-9999, and divided by 10^2 to result a 0-99.99 number.

So if they the site know the server seed, the client seed, and the nonce well ahead of of the roll in computer time (ms), and a hex string is generated, and the client is not allowed to change the client seed (player) because they only allow it (not sure the interval but I've tried changing it and it says sorry wait):

Is it possible to crack the hash site side/server side, perhaps not immediately but within time being they know all three parts up front? SHA512 is possible to brute force/crack, even long random passwords can be cracked rather quickly if you have a huge gpu setup to do it. Its been done. (Theres articles about the time it takes to bruteforce sha512 all over the net, and with a huge gpu farm, its possible to crack 1000s of passwords/outcomes in minutes).

Just asking questions, trying to understand better. Thoughts, input, are welcome.

Interesting results on 3x payout with same betting pattern.

The bets meerly tread water and hold at the same amount... just waiting for a triple win. Just takes longer to hit 3 wins at 3x but losing streaks are nill.