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121  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [5000 TH] Slush's Pool (mining.bitcoin.cz); TX FEES + VarDiff on: July 12, 2014, 06:55:34 PM
This is a used unit i cant find foucking manual anywhere thanks for asking.

Hey, welcome to the forum, I think maybe he was thinking that you have not provided enough information for us to help you along your path.

Don't hold back by thinking you are providing too much info. Lay it all down here and someone will help. From what you have posted so far I think Einstein would struggle to help you...
122  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: How to stop 'double spend' attack on: July 08, 2014, 11:43:36 PM
Another thing to think about.

We are raised to take certain risks without thinking very much about them.  The risk is so low, and accepting that risk is so much a part of daily life, that we often don't even notice.  Therefore, when we find something new (but similar), we have a tendency to notice the risks in the "new" thing without taking into consideration how much identical risk we are accepting in the "old" thing.

I'm not sure which country you are from, but all countries have their own fiat currency.  All those currencies have similar risks.  Let's use the word "dollar" here, but you can substitute your own currency and government agencies as you see fit...

Quote
1) Can a set of dollars that I receive be counterfeit?
2) If so, how is that done?
3) If so, who does it? - and under what circumstances?
4) If so, how secure is the process of accepting dollar bills? Is it susceptible to a malicious actor?
5) What is the trigger for the secret service to seize my dollar bills if they are counterfeit?
6) Can I be sure (even after storing them for hundreds of weeks) that a dollar bill I receive won't be seized due to it being counterfeit?
7) Would you be so nonchalant if you were looking at a new design of dollar bills in your hands without knowing all the security features?
8. How can I (if at all) defend myself from someone passing off extremely high quality counterfeit dollars when paying me?

I had made the connection with bitcoin and cash (would you give a stranger your cash - he might run off with it). But I hadn't made the connection with double spends and forged currency (GBP for me btw). Excellent analogy.
123  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: How to stop 'double spend' attack on: July 08, 2014, 11:24:40 PM
3) If so, who does it? - and under what circumstances?

Quote
It rarely happens.  It can happen accidentally if someone sends a transaction that isn't likely to be confirmed.  It can happen intentionally as per the previous descriptions if the attacker has the appropriate skills and resources.

Yesterday I got the impression there was some manual intervention (fire fighting) going on. Like someone was noticing a potential double spend attack and manually altering stuff in the chain. So can the people who control the bitcoin code do it too?

I'm not sure where you got this impression, but I suspect you are mistaken.  There are no "people who control the bitcoin code".  There is a group of people that control releases of the wallet that is called "Bitcoin Core".  They don't have much more power than that.  Individuals decide for themselves if they want to run that wallet, or if they want to run some other wallet. Other than changing the wallet software and convincing a large number of people to upgrade to their new version of the wallet, there isn't much else that the people that control that software can do.

others seen the double spend warning too.

This is a warning that the blockchain.info website chooses to place on their website when they notice that an input that was received at an address is used in more than one transaction that has been broadcast to the network.  Many times this warning is not due to any malicious attack.

8. How can I (if at all) defend myself from someone performing a double spend attack when sending me coins?  (like the OP topic states)

Quote
Wait for a few confirmations.  Be aware of any significant changes in the rate of new blocks.  Be aware of any significant changes in the block orphan rate.

Ok so nothing for me to do here apart from wait for txns. Got that but I must admit I'm slightly uneasy about it.

Not txns.  Confirmations.  There's a difference, and using the wrong word is likely to lead to disagreement, misunderstanding, and confusion.

I understand that you're uneasy about it.  It's difficult to trust something that you don't completely understand.  I get nervous every time I get in an airplane, or hear about severe weather headed my way.  It can be even more disconcerting when you understand a few of the basics but don't know much about the important details. Like most things in life, at some point it comes down to a few options:

  • Completely avoid the thing that you don't understand, since you can't make an accurate risk assessment without complete understanding of the entire process
  • Trust the knowledge of other experts that do completely understand the process.  Rely on their expertise, and keep yourself aware of any new developments and warnings from those that have demonstrated reliable and trustworthy knowledge.
  • Become an expert yourself.


I would like to think I can achieve bullet point point 3 in other aspects (I hope) - which seems the best option - and now I will try and achieve it with btc.

Clever man - thanks
124  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: How to stop 'double spend' attack on: July 08, 2014, 10:50:05 PM
...but the way u reacted to Keyser Soze, is bad. He was trying to explain u... may be u dont like that. But telling it useless is utter insult, which is most unwelcome.

Keyser Soze - apologies - I must be having a man period...
125  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: How to stop 'double spend' attack on: July 08, 2014, 10:35:06 PM
... knowledge ...

Much appreciated for your time to write the reply, it really is.

Great answer to 1), really great answer to 2) - thanks for that.

3) If so, who does it? - and under what circumstances?

Quote
It rarely happens.  It can happen accidentally if someone sends a transaction that isn't likely to be confirmed.  It can happen intentionally as per the previous descriptions if the attacker has the appropriate skills and resources.

Yesterday I got the impression there was some manual intervention (fire fighting) going on. Like someone was noticing a potential double spend attack and manually altering stuff in the chain.
So can the people who control the bitcoin code do it too?

Happy with 4) & 5). Your 6) made me laugh.
7) OK, I suppose restoring a blockchain from a backup may cause an issue locally - but others seen the double spend warning too.

8. How can I (if at all) defend myself from someone performing a double spend attack when sending me coins?  (like the OP topic states)

Quote
Wait for a few confirmations.  Be aware of any significant changes in the rate of new blocks.  Be aware of any significant changes in the block orphan rate.

Ok so nothing for me to do here apart from wait for txns. Got that but I must admit I'm slightly uneasy about it.

Thankyou again
126  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: How to stop 'double spend' attack on: July 08, 2014, 10:04:58 PM
... answers ...

Dan the man - thankyou

[edit] will suck in this (your) expertise and digest...
127  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: How to stop 'double spend' attack on: July 08, 2014, 09:32:39 PM
Multiple people are trying to explain u with reasoning. I'm sorry to say, that your adamant attitude is extremely unwelcome.

Well I'm sorry you think that - but "ah it will be OK" doesn't help me and I'm frustrated that no-one seems to know the answers. We all just 'hope' that "ah well it will be OK"...

Anyone who probes is obstricised. I don't mind standing out and asking the questions that we should know the answer to but - we don't.
128  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: How to stop 'double spend' attack on: July 08, 2014, 09:04:29 PM
...snip...

Your guesses are useless and give me nothing - I'm hoping someone who actually knows something might answer (some of) my questions...

I suppose I shouldn't have wasted my time with "useless" answers. Insulting people trying to help you usually doesn't get you far...

No insult intended - but you seemed to be repeating the same thing with no apparent knowledge of what you are talking about...
129  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: How to stop 'double spend' attack on: July 08, 2014, 08:16:09 PM
8. How can I (if at all) defend myself from someone performing a double spend attack when sending me coins?  (like the OP topic states)

You can't do it. The system is supposed to do it for you. Rational actors are supposed to preserve the system but as we all know people don't always live up to our version of rational.

I don't believe you were the victim of a double spend. It's more likely that your original bootstrap.dat file became corrupted. You then downloaded it over the corrupted copy adding to the problem. Did you finally delete the old copy of bootstrap.dat or rename it bootstrap.old? If I were you I would save my wallet.dat file, delete all Bitcoin folders, download a fresh copy of QT, copy over the old wallet.dat, and resync with the network.

Yesterday I thought I was the victim of a double spend. Today all seems well. That's a bit worrying on its own for me - one day broke next day fine no explanation kind of thing.

When I got the corrupt wallet message I said yes - re-download the entire chain. After I while I got bored, shutdown the client and restored my \AppData\Roaming\Bitcoin folder (after moving the existing one out the way) to a backup I took 7 days ago. When I fired up the client, it said 7 days out of sync as expected. Everything looked normal. As the last 7 days came through I was noticing that the updown txns were showing n/a for txn id and address. Just updown. I can understand if a client is not synching random txns - but this was only the updown ones. Slush and other payments I have sent and recieved were all shoing fine. Getting worried, I block chained some of the updown txn ids and found these double spend warnings. Others seen them too from their own browsers when they checked out the txn ids I posted. That rules out browser cache. That rules out me being an idiot. I welcome your theory but it doesn't give me any kind of warm feeling...

[edit] I back up my wallet.dat file to offline once a week too - but since I restored the entire bitcoin folder I didn't do anything manually with the wallet.dat
130  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: How to stop 'double spend' attack on: July 08, 2014, 08:04:21 PM
...snip...

Your guesses are useless and give me nothing - I'm hoping someone who actually knows something might answer (some of) my questions...
131  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: How to stop 'double spend' attack on: July 08, 2014, 06:30:48 PM
8. How can I (if at all) defend myself from someone performing a double spend attack when sending me coins?  (like the OP topic states)
132  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: How to stop 'double spend' attack on: July 08, 2014, 06:23:11 PM
I looked at some of the transactions, but did not see any issues with double spending, even when you were still experiencing the problem yesterday. I admit I did not look through them all or maybe I missed something.

Other people clearly stated they could also see some of the double spend warnings - I wasn't seeing things - so maybe you did miss it.

Quote
That blockchain.info warning shown on an address (it doesn't appear on transactions) can happen when unconfirmed coins are spent and blockchain.info thinks they may never be confirmed.

Most of the transaction ids I posted had already been confirmed, some in their hundreds. How can the block chain think a txn with hundreds of confs might never be confirmed?

Quote
The warning went away because the transaction(s) in question received a confirmation. (If I am wrong about the blockchain.info's warnings, please let me know.)

As above, the txn(s) in question were already solidly confirmed. So why was the warning there in the first place for a well aged txn?

Quote
The only difference in the two wallet screenshots is one (https://i.imgur.com/TdZfNG1.png) is missing transactions that the other (https://i.imgur.com/fyQCrWR.png) has listed. It seems the wallet fixed itself after the corrupted data issue was resolved and it was fully synced.

I restored the wallet from a backup and resynced the last weeks worth of txns - it didn't take long to fully sync - yet hours and hours later the updown (and only the updown) txns were showing n/a for address and txn id. And these were the addresses showing the double spend warnings.

Quote
What questions do you still have?

1) Can a set of transactions to a specified btc address be reversed?
2) If so, how is that done?
3) If so, who does it? - and under what circumstances?
4) If so, how secure is the process? Is it susceptible to a malicious actor?
5) What is the trigger for blockchain.info to show this double spend warning for an address?
6) Can I be sure (even after hundreds of confs) that a payment I recieve has really been recieved?
7) Would you be so nonchalant if you were watching txns disappear from your own wallet?
133  Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: updownt.bt managing to perform double spend attack on: July 08, 2014, 05:01:29 PM
Thread moved here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=681136.0

locking
134  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: How to stop 'double spend' attack on: July 08, 2014, 04:45:49 PM
Nah I'm not willing to believe that - it was only the updown txns that were affected - if was a problem with my own wallet then why with only updown? Also I only saw the double spend warning with txns associated with updown. You explanation is far from satisfying.

It is not possible for select transactions, with many confirmations, to suddenly become unconfirmed in the blockchain and then disappear from your wallet. There is no way to "suspend" the transactions like you have suggested before. They either are confirmed or unconfirmed. Do you have an issue with a specific transaction? If so, what is the transaction id (not the address) and what problem do you think exists?

Also, as I previously stated, that warning you may see on blockchain.info doesn't necessarily mean anything.

Well I also thought it was not possible to unconfirm a transaction that had hundreds of confirmations - but it must be possible. Isn't that what they did when the blocked chain forked last year - they rolled back to a point in time and all txns up to that point were lost.

As previously stated - I no longer have any issues with any txns. I did have an issue yesterday and I posted a large pile of txn ids if you actually want to read the thread.

Also as previously stated - the fact that you state the warnings I was seeing regarding the missing updown txns does not necessarily mean anything is far from satisfying. They could mean something and you stating that they might not doesn't add anything. Unless you actually knew what they meant. Which you dont.

So all of my questions remain unanswered.

[edit] see for yourself here

http://nottm28.imgur.com/all/
135  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: How to stop 'double spend' attack on: July 08, 2014, 04:24:42 PM
When I checked this morning the missing txns were back - http://nottm28.imgur.com/all/

I think someone noticed a double spend attack from updown and somehow suspended all txns from the last 2 weeks. Now they have been released.

This is some scary shit...

So the reason for the anomaly is still a mystery or it has been discovered ?
It was an issue with his wallet not showing all the transactions. The blockchain.info warning he was seeing on some addresses doesn't necessarily mean anything.

Nah I'm not willing to believe that - it was only the updown txns that were affected - if was a problem with my own wallet then why with only updown? Also I only saw the double spend warning with txns associated with updown. You explanation is far from satisfying.
136  Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: updownt.bt managing to perform double spend attack on: July 08, 2014, 11:18:57 AM
Also I take your point and will keep it this thread only now
137  Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: updownt.bt managing to perform double spend attack on: July 08, 2014, 11:17:47 AM
Actually I am saying the transactions are now back in my wallet. See the imgur image. The problem has corrected itself. I'm not getting the double spend warning that I (and others) did see yesterday. So what gives?
138  Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: updownt.bt managing to perform double spend attack on: July 08, 2014, 08:33:33 AM
When I checked this morning the missing txns were back - http://nottm28.imgur.com/all/

I think someone noticed a double spend attack from updown and somehow suspended all txns from the last 2 weeks. Now they have been released.

This is some scary shit...
139  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: How to stop 'double spend' attack on: July 08, 2014, 08:32:40 AM
When I checked this morning the missing txns were back - http://nottm28.imgur.com/all/

I think someone noticed a double spend attack from updown and somehow suspended all txns from the last 2 weeks. Now they have been released.

This is some scary shit...
140  Economy / Services / Re: WE PAY FOR SIGNATURE EVEN MORE. UP TO 0.0016 BTCs PER POST. W on: July 08, 2014, 08:31:38 AM
When I checked this morning the missing txns were back - http://nottm28.imgur.com/all/

I think someone noticed a double spend attack from updown and somehow suspended all txns from the last 2 weeks. Now they have been released.

This is some scary shit...
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