This is one of the things I love about bitcoins - safe unless you can break ME

The other thing is, precious metals are a pain in the ass... I am not going to be checking weight and purity and all that other junk when I want to make a deal
I know bitcoin is good, the network will prove it, and a coin is easy to break down into tradeable parts

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Side note - I am a tradesman in the Alberta oilsands, I spend long days on tools talkin shit with the other boys.
Sometimes that shittalking is productive, I have learned / observed a few things:
Around the time OWS broke out, everyone was talking about how fucked the government is. We all hate politicians, they have no trust.
All the old balls are telling us young bucks to buy silver. Every time gold is brought up, we are told it has no industrial purpose and is hella pricey.
Most of us have started buying silver and spending less on strippers and truck mods.
This is out in the middle of the oilsands ... we are known for our toys and partying.

Once bitcoin becomes a little more pervasive / easy to trade in and I figure out how to explain it, I bet I will be selling a bunch of casascius coins out in camp.

Exactly. Gold can be chokepointed which makes it difficult to route around damage.

On Thursday I gave a 3 hour presentation to several hedge funds about Bitcoin. They all seemed to focus on being able to sell bitcoins and were trying to figure out how much depth was in the market. I was .... vague on those issues. But what was interesting is one used an example of the value being 'up in the ether' and getting it back down. I kind of chuckled that that they seemed unable to comprehend. Finally, I said, "You are not going to sell bitcoins. You are going to spend bitcoins."

The next day at dinner I told one of my Bitcoin buddies the example of 'the ether' as used. Before I could ask what he thought he said, "Why would I want to take my bitcoins out of the ether where my wealth would no longer be safe." Precisely.

Exactly. Gold can be chokepointed which makes it difficult to route around damage.

On Thursday I gave a 3 hour presentation to several hedge funds about Bitcoin. They all seemed to focus on being able to sell bitcoins and were trying to figure out how much depth was in the market. I was .... vague on those issues. But what was interesting is one used an example of the value being 'up in the ether' and getting it back down. I kind of chuckled that that they seemed unable to comprehend. Finally, I said, "You are not going to sell bitcoins. You are going to spend bitcoins."

The next day at dinner I told one of my Bitcoin buddies the example of 'the ether' as used. Before I could ask what he thought he said, "Why would I want to take my bitcoins out of the ether where my wealth would no longer be safe." Precisely.

• What dealer do you know that would accept gold without inspecting and weighing it? You're talking about micrograms at best, if a dealer even accepts it.

• Relative to what? Oil? No. Bitcoin? Then yes, but still only to a limited degree. The entirety of the supply isn't as important as market pricing, which is established exclusively by the amount available for trade. The action happens at the margins, or where 'the rubber meets the road'. FOFOA discusses this stock-to-flow ratio nicely.
• Relative to what? Is it easier to securely store twenty barrels of oil, or a one ounce gold coin? Yes, Bitcoin is even better, but it isn't widespread yet.

From a pragmatic perspective, Bitcoin may be technically superior in most respects, but it is not of a sufficient magnitude to replace the world's current monetary system. Maybe by the 2020s, but for the next few years the only monetary instrument capable of facilitating a transition from the fiat disaster is gold. In addition, if the global consciousness is already thinking along the lines of counterparty risk and gold as savings, it will be a much easier shift to using Bitcoin rather than trying to shoehorn a social conception completely incompatible.

Some regions will accept Bitcoin more readily, possibly because of greater familiarity with gold. The initial resistance from the Austrian community has been changing rather swiftly of late, whereas the general populace is still wholly unaware of Bitcoin's existence. Sure, we'd all like to see Bitcoin ascend to universal acceptance overnight. Sadly, that is not going to happen - it's a very long, agonizingly slow process (to us). We're still witnessing the beginnings.


I prefer Bitcoin (and have since I looked at it in-depth early in 2011), and am comfortable with my gold holdings. If you lose access to your BTC holdings for whatever reason, you'll be awfully glad you still have the gold. A 'last plane out' plan should never rely on a single option.


Yes, I've been arguing that Bitcoin satisfies the Triffin dilemma for well over a year. As above, I agree that Bitcoin is technically superior in nearly every aspect. The main vulnerability I see is that the network requires active processes to maintain itself; gold does not. Inclusion of proof-of-stake or an undiscovered method of passively securing the blockchain to at least some extent would be the final kick that I'd need to say gold is no longer necessary.

If I leave a 1oz gold coin and a piece of paper printed with a 1BTC public/private key in a safe deposit box tomorrow, then come back to open it in 2025, gold will still be gold and hopefully Bitcoin's structure will still be as resilient as it is now. The hashing algorithm may have had to be changed, or an unforeseen threat may arise during the intervening years. If I didn't move my bitcoin from the address in the box, it could be at risk or gone already. Assuming the firm securing the safe deposit box wasn't compromised, both the gold and Bitcoin address will still be there, otherwise both could be stolen.

I expect that the address will be just fine, and my coin will be worth maybe a million defunct US dollars. One thing I've realised is that the more I understand, the less I know. Variability in non-linear systems, especially reality, can arrive at results that are nowhere near the expected based on initial conditions. Although they may be unlikely, don't underestimate potential negatives, whether known or unknown.

you mine - not me yours and S3052 and WA

I listen to all of you.

I pointed out the silent accumulation that's occurring while visible prices head in the opposite direction. Large players build their reserves at a discount, unlike retail traders and the general public.

Bitcoin cannot yet stand alone as a foundation of monetary reality. Gold is still that foundation when all else is stripped away. That isn't going to change instantaneously.

Okay, i'll try to win this.

My bet is DOWN with 55% probability

Reasons:
1. Coming 50x100 daily SMA cross. Even three green soldiers will not prevent this cross. Last similar cross in march 2012 was with 200k selloff.
2. Weekly MACD looks bearish. As long as wave structure.
3. As we broke up triangle of corrective wave B yesterday from 9.75 low, yesterday emotional rally hit only 61.8% fibo of move from 13.05 to 9.75. Bullish volume is still looks like a correctional wave C (from 9.75 low), rather than starting impulse. So, we had just corrected from 9.75 low before futher downside.
4. The futher downside required to complete unresolved wave C from drop 15.5 -> 7.6
5. Many people here refering to breakout of yearly triangle and thus stay bullish. But remind that breakout of such huge figure requires HUGE volume confimation (which is absent). So we didn't break it yet.

However correction is complete I assume market is making decision of futher move. But my bet is bearish.

Bitcoin is a natural fit for digital medium; gold doesn't have a built-in transaction network.

However, gold does not need a failsafe - it is its own fallback. If Bitcoin had a proof-of-stake mechanism, that might allow for indefinite absence of an active transaction processing network. Or there might be another yet-to-be-realized method which could provide that ability. Until that time, gold will be monetarily important.

Nothing is perfect - even if your brakes work a million times, they just need to fail once for you to die. So why are you trying to throw away the emergency brake? When Bitcoin can function in a pre-Internet environment, then gold can be discarded.

but anyone who thinks it's the only asset these kind of events will occur in needs to think again.

but anyone who thinks it's the only asset these kind of events will occur in needs to think again.

Deflation could really fuck shit up.

i have a hard time believing that...
to me gold created a "fear inflation" bubble
selling gold at the top, and then having deflation rise the value of your $, is too good an offer to pass up.

Bitcoin on the other hand ( with the market so new, there is still room for Massive growth ) will continue to rise.

Bitcoin was never about protecting your money, its been about replacing the broken system, with honest money. a powerful mission, sure to gain support as the $ goes nuts.

Gold (and to a lesser extent, silver - more volatile market) will retain value even as the price drops.