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12901  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Classic or Core? Which one is better? on: March 26, 2016, 09:48:10 AM
Source?
IIRC it was from some pool. However, one would have to validate this himself as people tend to use such charts for manipulation. You can see this clearly as there is zero indication of what this chart actually represents.

It seems the core brand is so magic that makes people worshiping it. I foresee many bitcoin core coming up in the following months: The bitcoin Core, Core bitcoin, real bitcoin core, satoshi bitcoin core, bitcoin core SE, bitcoin core 2 ... Some of them might be a registered trademark by some banks  Grin
Yeah, you have no valid arguments then you try to reduce things to nonsense. Quite obvious.
12902  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: ToominCoin aka "Bitcoin_Classic" #R3KT on: March 26, 2016, 07:05:04 AM
Did such a thing ever happen before? What would happen to Bitcoin if it did?
Nodes are occasionally under DDoS.

Care to share some studies/numbers/costs?
I don't think there are one. There are too many possible variables that need to be accounted for and even then the estimation would be bad.

What would such a DoS attack mean to the Bitcoin network?
Well, if a DDoS attack takes down everything then you're left without nodes and without them you have no network.

WTF does that mean? Another made-up word like "antifragile"?
Strange question. What is Bitcoin to you? As soon as you kick out individuals by doing various actions (e.g. expontentially increase costs) you are essentially 'censoring' their usage of Bitcoin.

12903  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Classic or Core? Which one is better? on: March 26, 2016, 06:58:39 AM
Why should commit keys matter? Git is decentralized, any git clone is exactly the same as core, so the software build from any of its clones will be exactly the same too, it is up to each user to use an implementation he like
If they didn't matter, there would be no Classic. This was always about power because if you ask each developer individually you are going to be left with Gavin and Garzik in favor of a 2 MB block size limit and everyone else being against it.

Many of the postings here and elsewhere are viewed by folks trying to take the pulse of Bitcoin.  
People who want to fork are trying to change Bitcoin.

but let's say in 3 months segwit is not ready and still no where near ready
If the people who are working on Classic had decent skills they'd help out with Segwit, but they don't. Segwit is nearing completion, however it should not be rushed.

Would it kill us to just *announce* an intent to release a version with 2MB (or even just 1.1MB) block size limit?
Why would anyone waste time trying to do this?
12904  Other / Beginners & Help / MOVED: I have 5 bitcoin and its stuck on blockchain wallet : ( on: March 26, 2016, 06:53:32 AM
This topic has been moved to Service Discussion.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1412629.0
12905  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: ToominCoin aka "Bitcoin_Classic" #R3KT on: March 25, 2016, 11:15:45 PM
If you kick out individuals then you are already a form of a government.
Well, yes. Bitcoin would not only start losing its decentralization, it would also lose its censorship resistance. I doubt that anyone would want to use it at that point.

If classic implements blacklists, then they will assume the position of governors of bitcoin ,and then it will become centralized.
Honestly, with corporations such as Coinbase standing behind them it would not surprise me. However, they won't make the same mistake as XT and would probably implement it down the road.

It's really hard to keep bitcoin decentralized, too many powerhungry people are here Cheesy
Indeed.
12906  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Coinbase CEO: Core Team is a "Systemic Threat" on: March 25, 2016, 11:06:04 PM
this is a fairly big problem.
Even though it is, people like Armstrong promote this service. Quite strange isn't it?

created by the ill conceived notion that running a full node should be accessible to everyone and anyone at a low low cost.
This ain't some 'ill conceived notion'. If you want Bitcoin to succeed then it has to be as decentralized as possible, and in order for it to remain as decentralized as possible you have to keep the cost of running a node as low as possible. Bitcoin is about individual sovereignty.

transacting on the blockchain should be accessible to everyone and anyone at a low low cost, not running its infrastructure..
Transacting on any layer should be accessible at a relatively low cost. Whether you transact on the main chain, side chain or LN it doesn't matter.

i can't Believe i have to make this case. 
A very strange case.
12907  Other / Beginners & Help / MOVED: Earn free bitcoins every hour. on: March 25, 2016, 10:59:41 PM
This topic has been moved to Trashcan.
Reason: Referral link.
12908  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: ToominCoin aka "Bitcoin_Classic" #R3KT on: March 25, 2016, 10:55:43 PM
in my view its my duty as a bitcoiner to discuss my views on its future. this doesn't necessarily mean agreeing with the status quo. ( if we all just TRUST 1 group of devs to have our best interest in mind, WTF is the point??? )
This statement is stupid as it implies that this group of developers are somehow act and work as a group (which would imply centralization among other things), but they don't. Core is 'decentralized' as it consists out of a good number of developers employed by various companies. These developers have differentiating views when it comes to a lot of things (this is a good thing).

also... Run by various government/institutions/corporations Can == decentralized
beside no one is stopping individuals to invest in a 10,000$ node and participate in this network i am suggesting.
No. You fail to realize that this would result in a very low number of nodes which makes the network more susceptible to a DDoS attack (anything can be crashed with one).

IF there is no central authority
If you kick out individuals and add government/institutions/corporations into the equation you will most likely end up with a central authority.
12909  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: ToominCoin aka "Bitcoin_Classic" #R3KT on: March 25, 2016, 07:14:52 PM
are views as to what constitutes a decentralized system differs to much...
Run by various government/institutions/corporations != decentralized coin. That's a "Capital Coin". If you want such a coin, just fork off with the existing support that you have already. Don't try turning Bitcoin into something that it isn't.
12910  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Classic or Core? Which one is better? on: March 25, 2016, 07:07:20 PM
How come should there be a power to grab in an open source project? Writing code is power? If no one use their code, programmers have no power over anyone. It is the crowd thinking that they must use so called "core" software give programmers power. But core is not a registered company, neither a trade mark, anyone can call themselves core.
It is possible. You get to control the main implementation (currently Core); i.e. you try to make your own implementation the main one. There are only a handful of people who have Bitcoin Core commit keys right now.

Architecture wise, any bitcoin software can be called a "core" software: Blockstream core, unlimited core, classic core, XT core etc... because their architecture is the same.
As soon as you start writing nonsense such as "Blockstream core" you easily reveal just how biased and deluded your viewpoint is.

However I don't see how segwit can be called "core" since it is totally another architecture
This makes zero sense.

Keep in mind that you will get no unbiased opinions here. Every single poster here gave you a suggestion based on their goals.
Not necessarily, but yes.
12911  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: ToominCoin aka "Bitcoin_Classic" #R3KT on: March 25, 2016, 07:01:25 PM
hard to believe that Core implementing the necessary "fixes" for Blockstream to work ( a for profit company ) isn't guilty of the same thing...
They aren't adding any "fixes" solely for Blockstream. If you think that the Lightning Network is Blockstream's product, then you're wrong.

and 2MB is hardly a rushed impl. the rushed impl was rejected ( 20MB )...
It is being rushed (28 days grace period).

you make it sound so evil... I want Sybil attack to be harder to pull off. and I believe corporations/government/rich will also value decentralization and run their nodes from their own HQ. I see nothing wrong with the cost of running a full node rise so long as nodes remain distributed. I believe the nodes can be representative of end users as well, if it does end up costing 10,000$/ year to run a node i believe bitcoin will be 100-1000X more popular than today, and in that case, its OK for 1000's of people to "group buy" full nodes.
This seems similar to the nonsense that Veritas was spreading. I have no proper words to describe how stupid this is as this goes against everything that Bitcoin stood for over the years (and what was trying to be achieved). Bitcoin was always about individual sovereignty; sovereignty which will be lost if you have a system where a node costs $10k or more per year. Bitcoin will only remain decentralized as long as running a node costs as little as possible.
12912  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: /btc is full of hypocrites or shills on: March 25, 2016, 03:22:27 PM
I never said the forum was better and I never said your not allowed to post what you want here.
I was actually talking about reddit as the topic is about, i seem to read here about a lot of unhappy reddit users getting their post deleted.
Great. I just assumed that this is the case as it tends to be more frequently than it should. A lot of people are indeed unhappy about reddit. Try posting something pro Bitcoin Core on /r/btc and you are going to end up either censored or down-voted heavily.

I have never had a single post deleted or censored here in anyway by the mods.
As long as you know the difference between moderation and censorship all will be fine.
12913  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: /btc is full of hypocrites or shills on: March 25, 2016, 03:16:50 PM
Ah, but who is the judge of what is good info or bad info? The best way is for all info to be available and the reader to judge for themselves.
People who actually know the truth? The average reader won't read everything, they usually read one source and take that as the truth. If you take a look now /r/bitcoin seems to have improved and is now back to discussing relatively positive news.

I particularly like the translations of what is going on in the Chinese bitcoin space/Chinese bitcoin forums. I've not seen those anywhere else, and that sub is valuable just for that.
If you're particularly interested in those, then yes. Otherwise the answer is no.

Possibly. Certainly has a bigger userbase (because first on the scene/paying people to post with multiple accounts via sig ads).
I was talking about this forum, not the reddit page but okay.
12914  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: /btc is full of hypocrites or shills on: March 25, 2016, 02:43:21 PM
Nope, I like reading that sub, it's chock full of interesting stuff that you just can't find anywhere else.
Well, you're being fed a lot of bad information if you're reading everything.

It's an sad commentary about how other bitcoin spaces no longer chat freely about everything going on in the bitcoin space.
This is not the case.

Your welcome to post and talk about anything at forum.bitcoin.com without it being censored or removed.
Nonsense. That forum is not any better; you're allowed to talk about whatever you want here as long as you don't break rules.

This place tho. The bastion of Truth, Reason & Impartiality Roll Eyes
It is still much better than the alternatives.

So that is what you call censorship? Removal of low quality posts?
They think that if their post gets removed that they're being censored. This is obviously a ridiculous view.
12915  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: /btc is full of hypocrites or shills on: March 25, 2016, 12:56:36 PM
Guy's a troll, don't feed it.
No. Stop defending due to bias when it is obvious that you are not right.


OP, there was a post in their own subreddit about it: Meta...Anyone else sick of this sub being anti-r/Bitcoin instead of pro-Bitcoin? . You will find people justifying these actions which makes one wonder whether:
1) They're sadists.
2) They're shills.
3) There's something else wrong with them.


This negativity does not help anyone. It is time to stop.

So I'm glad r/btc exists.
This must be a joke gone bad.
12916  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Percentage of addresses used on: March 25, 2016, 11:15:52 AM
OP you could have looked this up quickly with a single Google search. It was discussed in the past. Since nobody posted it, it might be worth adding:
Quote
[1] 2^160 is 1,461,501,637,330,902,918,203,684,832,716,283,019,655,932,542,976.
Divide this by the population of the world and you end up with:
Quote
[2] 215,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 addresses per capita


[1] - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=24268.0
[2] - https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Weaknesses#Generating_tons_of_addresses
12917  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: BLOCKS ARE FULL!!!! on: March 25, 2016, 11:05:30 AM
would you be for or against such an increase in 2017?
Obviously for. If a HF is going to happen, then the developers should use that opportunity to 'clean up' and possibly implement some things from the hard fork wish list.

uhmm i dont see a single thing why just an ordinary bitcoin user would be against a block increase because it would cost less fees to send through transactions
There's a difference between what users want, what is achievable and what kind of side-effects it is going to cause.

blocks are full for a while already and hopefully devs will do something to solve this problem asap, it should have been done a while ago
They aren't.
12918  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Classic or Core? Which one is better? on: March 25, 2016, 08:59:45 AM
I'm surprised that you still have energy arguing these, I have mostly given up posting here and made some fork test at mean time while reading other forums  Smiley
Nice story about "tests".

For me it comes down to trust in this regard and not to the technical advantage both of these implementations have. Less than a year ago, Gavin and Mike Hearn pitched up here and dropped XT on us.
I will go with the people with a long term vision.... not just a short term solution to regain control over the development.. a so called power grab.  Roll Eyes
It is worth adding that both Gavin and Garzik have not had any significant contributions to Bitcoin lately. Aside from them, Classic does not have anyone that one could even label as 'decent'. His BIP goes against everything that was learned over the years. Even Garzik strongly disagrees with the proposed grace period.

Congratulations, what will you support next, Bitcoin DaRealDeal?
Maybe Bitcoin Original or Bitcoin Reloaded.  Roll Eyes

I support to increase the size of the block. We have to do this.
Not really, no.
12919  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: 2MB Pros and Cons on: March 25, 2016, 07:42:46 AM
But more germane, neither Classic (which, by the way, is NOT the fork published by Coinbase), XT, nor Unlimited seek to split the chain. If they did, their activation threshold would be somewhat south of 75%.
If they didn't seek to split the chain, their activation threshold would be north of 90%. You can make such claims all day long. If their intentions were truly pure and for the sake of Bitcoin, they would never risk the negative effects of a network split (e.g. 3/4 and 1/4).

Nope - you're still not getting it. We do not seek a version that no one uses. We seek multiple interoperating versions, all adherent to the same protocol based upon emergent consensus. We seek a coin guided by Nakamoto Consensus, rather than one restricted by the few. We seek these principles to be eventually adopted by the overwhelming majority of Bitcoiners. And at the moment, our trajectory is positive. Cheers!
Introducing competition in a consensus based algorithm; interesting proposal.  Roll Eyes
12920  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: ToominCoin aka "Bitcoin_Classic" #R3KT on: March 25, 2016, 07:00:02 AM
anyone who wants to win is greedy?
Anyone who wants to rush temporary 'fixes' that would enable more people to join the system is most likely led by greed.

also is there such a thing as too much decentralization for one's own good?
i would argue that yes of course, for example trying to make the world financial settlement layer run on a blueberry pi would be considered too much decentralization for one's own good...
Yes there is. Bitcoin would be most likely worthless if it weren't decentralized. If you want a coin that is run by corporations/government/rich people, then you've come to the wrong place.

But before they even manage to fork the network.... they already run all their nodes through datacenters. Cheesy
We're just having a date with Sybil. Roll Eyes

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