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1381  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] LTC-ATF.B1 on: April 05, 2013, 07:27:34 AM
You're telling me 20 units of the fund are now worth 29,000 BTC?

No.   I asked earlier where this 29,000 BTC came from.  It's not a figure of ANY releveance whatsoever and I've no clue where you pulled it from.  Maybe you multiplied the number of units I'm authorised to sell by the value/unit - and got a meaningless result (units not sold have no cash backing and no value - other than in a few mismanaged funds that use shares/units to track somethign other than ownership).

Total assets managed by the fund are under 1000 BTC and oly briefly ever went over that earlier in week when LTC was at peak (and fell below it due to buying back units).  Already explained that the 20 units is just wrong.

If you pull one number (20) out of your ass even though the real value (300) is visible on the exchange then divide it into another number (29,000) that you pulled out of thin air then you get a result which has no relevance to anything.  Which may work for you when valuing your assets but doesn't do the job for me.
1382  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] LTC-ATF.B1 on: April 05, 2013, 07:20:31 AM
But you have already been caught in a lie. You claimed to own 160/300 units of the fund personally, then just now said you bought back 40% of the units of the fund this week. So you're saying there's just 20 units of the fund outstanding?

WHy don't you JUST FOR ONCE look at figures before makng them up.

There's currently 300 units of the fund outstanding - of which I own 160.

At time of last report (on the weekend) there were 514 units outstanding.  214 of those (over 40%) have been bought back by the fund (i.e. were sold into the bidwall I maintain).  In fact 215 were bought back as I received 1 unit as management fee - so oustanding would have gone to 515 at that point.  Outstanding shares is reported every week - and anyone can verify just by looking at the details tab for the asset, so it's not something I COULD lie about.

Rest of your post seems based on this total lack of comprehension/spending 5 seconds checking a stat that's visible to the public.  On LTC-GLobal you can SEE how many shares are outstanding on the asset (Bitfunder only shows issued).

LTC-ATF has a stupid number of available shares (an arbitrary large number as no means of issuing new ones manually exists) - by contract I could currently sell up to 2500 total of them.  However unless/until LTC drops a lot lower no new ones will be sold.  Managing capital and exchange-rates is a key part of what I do to maximise profits.  Unlike most other funds I DON'T OFTEN SELL UNITS - and the number outstanding is the lowest now that it's been for ages (certainly this year - probably almost since start).

Now you figure out how I could be running a ponzi, buying back shares at 5-6 times original price, not selling new ones and still easily show cash to cover all remaining shares/bonds.  If LTC manages to stay around current value I'll be buying back MORE units (at a price including all the profit you think is imaginary) and not selling new ones.  Ideally at current price I'd like to buyback somewhere in the range of 50-100 more units (I'd sell back half of them myself and keep my holdings around the 50% mark).
1383  Economy / Securities / Re: [BitFunder] TU.SILVER -- Request for Discussion on: April 05, 2013, 06:25:54 AM
[...]
Total spent (including option purchase) : ~2.67 BTC
Total received : 3.472 BTC
Profit : ~0.8 BTC
Percentage profit : ~23%

Nice job. I've written a new series of PUT and CALLs for TU.SILVER. Three PUTS and four or five CALLS. Go to town! Good luck.

I'm tempted by one of the options but there's an issue which makes your options less useful than they could be.

In general I'd LOVE to be able to buy CALL options on Silver/Gold at reasonable prices (and your prices aren't unreasonable on the face of it) as they allow me to hedge other trades I do vs BTC down-swings.

But at present the majority of the value of your shares is actually BTC - cash/LTC-ATF.B1/BTC-BOND (and the last 2 are basically cash equivalent as both offer fast redemption).  So if I buy optons on the shares right now, 2/3 of that option is for value that's basically BTC - so can't possibly be used to hedge vs exchange-rate movement (price movement of silver/gold is in my view always going to drowned out by BTC/USD movement).

That makes the cost less attractive - and also means if I buy then get to execute (for CALLs I'd generally prefer I did NOT ever get to execute) then I have to tie up 3 times the capital I otherwise would for the same profit.

This is one of the reasons I've been so vocal about you no longer just selling silver - as your shares COULD have been something I could make a lot of use of (either by buying as a hedge or better still by using options to gain leveraged protection), but because they're now mainly backed by BTC rather than silver they have a lot less utility for me.
1384  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] LTC-ATF.B1 on: April 04, 2013, 07:57:22 PM
If the orders on LTC-ATF/BTC.CO aren't there it doesn't mean I'm lieing btw - just means one of my real orders got filled and these ones got auto-cancelled (probably only partly cancelled as did both with multiple bids).
1385  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] LTC-ATF.B1 on: April 04, 2013, 07:55:39 PM
Cut the attitude. I am a 12% holder of LTC-ATF.B1. You work for me, not the other way around. If you don't want to release your books publicly I will respect that despite your lack of respect for other's similar policy.

You're confusing debt with equity.

LTC-ATF holders have equity.  LTC-ATF.B1 purchasers own debt.  As a bond-holder you have zero say in how LTC-ATF operates - but an entitlement that your debt is paid off before equity holders get anything in the event of closure.

I don't work for you (I work for the holders of units in LTC-ATF) - I (in my role as the manager of LTC-ATF) owe you money.  The conditions of that debt are clearly laid out in the contract for LTC-ATF.B1.  They do NOT include that LTC-ATF actually makes any profit - but they DO include that LTC-ATF hold BTC-denominated assets worth more than total face value of all bonds issued and that total bond issued have a total face value of no more than 150% the NAV of LTC-ATF.

I can prove either of those conditions is met by showing just cash (that's not always the case - but is right now due to LTC being so high).


No, I'm not confusing debt for equity, bondholders have senior claim on the assets of LTC-ATF according to the contract.

Again, I'm not going to respond to your 6 posts essay other than to say that I am one of your major bondholders and you need to cut the attitude with me and realize who you are working for. If this is how you treat your other major bondholders when they ask questions you probably don't have what it takes to be a fund manager.

Just prove you have the money like you said you would, and after that just make sure you don't screw up the payment of your bond coupons and I don't see a problem. We just can't afford another screw up like pirate, and when you waltz in here swearing at people who ask you how you're making 1.56% a day it doesn't look very good.

Sorry - but you ARE confused.

Yes - bond holders have senior claim on assets and LTC-ATF have to maintain assets to cover the bonds.  But I am NOT working for bond-holders - what you get paid is entirely unrelated to how profitable my trading is or even whether I trade at all or not.  I work for LTC-ATF and LTC-ATF owes you debt.  If I borrow money on a credit card then I don't suddenly start working for the credit card company.  Same if I borrow money from anyone.

Here's a start on proof of cash.

LTC-GLOBAL.  Have placed a buy order for a further 50 units of LTC-ATF at 50 LTC each - so total buys for 150 units at 50 LTC each.
There's only 300 units of LTC-ATF total and I hold 160 of them (which I've put up for sale at 999 each).

So even allowing for the bid being a bit below NAV/U (currentl over 52 - but being cautious as rate is very volatile) there's enough LTC up there to buy back every unit owned by anyone other than me.

8K LTC = 264 BTC at current exchange-rate of 0.033.

BTC.CO we currently have 61 BTC in cash.  I've put 60 BTC of it up at .01 on :

https://btct.co/security/BTC-TRADING-PT

So we're already at all units of LTC-ATF and nearly half all bonds covered IN CASH on just 2 sites (the 2 it's easy to show cash on -as don't have to cancel all my other orders).

Other cash currently is: 

81 BTC on BTC-E (a mix of LTC/BTC - I have orders up on both sides of the book to balance our currency as price moves).
63 BTC on Bitfunder (nearly all committed on bids)
22.5 BTC on MPEx (via CoinBR)

Which would put me at about 60 BTC in CASH over total obligations to all bondholders and investors in LTC-ATF other than myself.  Pretty poor form if it's a ponzi.

Feel free to ask Ukyo whether I have 63 BTC there now (and haven't moved any in or out today).

If you want to see all of it on Sunday let me know - and I'll cancel all orders etc.  And do bear in mind, this is with nearly 30% committed to securities - usually we're even MORE cash heavy than this but bought back about 40% of all units in the fund this week.
1386  Economy / Securities / Re: [BitFunder] TU.SILVER -- Request for Discussion on: April 04, 2013, 07:26:48 PM
The face value of it is 1/10th of an oz of silver.  The price that you sell at is OVER DOUBLE that (around treble now) ... Silver now represents (using YOUR formula for calculating the silver element) a MINORITY of what people buying your shares pay.  It's NOT your primary business any more.

As with everything the price of TU.SILVER is driven by market demand. I am not the one selling at the ASK price right now. So you're not arguing with me -- I don't even need to say anything -- you're arguing with Mr. Market, and you're losing.

Most of your mistakes are addressed in our recent reports. You're free to disagree; and I am free not to care. I've put up bids at .1 and above, and I've written PUTs for an additional 150 shares at .1. Go ahead and put your money where your mouth is.

I stated that I turned down this offer - in fact that wasn't true: I'd already bought some.

The below are the ONLY transactions I've had on this asset recently and I hold no other units of it.


2013-03-20 21:05:34    Option Purchase: (TU.SILVER)
PUT: 35 Share/s @ ฿0.10 each    ฿0.17500000

2013-04-03 01:47:48    BUY: (TU.SILVER):
13 @ ฿0.07401000/ea    ฿0.96213000     
2013-04-02 19:20:43    BUY: (TU.SILVER):
5 @ ฿0.07310000/ea    ฿0.36550000
2013-04-01 17:31:05    BUY: (TU.SILVER):
2 @ ฿0.06000000/ea    ฿0.12000000    
2013-04-01 17:30:51    BUY: (TU.SILVER):
13 @ ฿0.07000000/ea    ฿0.91000000    
2013-04-01 16:07:19    BUY: (TU.SILVER):
2 @ ฿0.07100020/ea    ฿0.14200040    

2013-04-04 14:04:22    Option Execution: TU.SILVER
-35 Share/s @ 0.10/each         ฿3.47200000

Total spent (including option purchase) : ~2.67 BTC
Total received : 3.472 BTC
Profit : ~0.8 BTC
Percentage profit : ~23%

Maybe that also helps answer your questions in this thread:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=129985.0

Part of the reason I consistently make decent profit is because some people insist on doing totally stupid things - like selling PUTs with a strike above actual value cheaply.  But that's the beauty of trading in these markets - loads of retards throwing money away all over the place.  That's 80% of this week's bond interest paid right there from a tiny trade that had a maximum downside of .175 BTC.

Would have bought more but think someone else beat me to the rest as they'd gone when I decided maybe I'd get a few more - plus wasn't confident there'd be enough liquidity to do a load anyway.
1387  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] LTC-ATF.B1 on: April 04, 2013, 06:41:29 PM
1.  After this week's report I'll PROVE that I have all the cash I claim to have.
I can very easily prove I have the cash I claim to have. 


Sure - will do that.  I usually do reports Sunday evening - after this week's I'll flash the cash (place orders on all sites).

Realise that cash is less this week than previous.  You can do the math of why yourself easily enough.  This week we bought back units (you can verify the drop in units yourself).  Obviously they were bought back in cash.  That reduced cash withotu changing other assets - making cash a lower percentage of holdings.  Because that reduction was in LTC that was a good thing - as a lot of lTC was unused.  If LTC falls heavily then the percentage in cash will rise again automatically - otherwise it's likely to stay lower than in previous weeks (largely because noone's buying on LTC-GLobal right now).

That cash will more than cover ALL bonds plus ALL units of LTC-GLobal other than my own (with some left over).  So just from that you'll know that I have more cash alone than I claim to owe investors including all the profits you think I made up (and the interest I've paid out).  Near in mind that just the buy order on LTC-ATF units thats always up covers ALL bonds right now (only because LTC's so high - usually it's only covered a small fraction of them).

You can choose which security you want me to place a bid on for each exchange (LTC-GLobal, BTC.CO, Bitfunder and MPEx via CoinBR).  But it must be soemthig decent - I'm not going to risk putting bids even at tiny prices on some scammy junk where it may get filled.  You can pick the price you want the bids put at - so long as its well below the trading zone.

BTC-E is more tricky - as you can't view below the top orders, so I can't place an order well outside the money and have you able to see it unless you use the API.  I'm open to suggestions on that - as approx 10% of fund value is sitting in cash there (for currency rebalancing, cross-currency liquidity and to lock funds against mass order fillings on sites).  Might be able to do it on the RUR pairs as there's little action so can get 5% away from spread visible.

I'll need a pretty precise time agreed in advance for it plus a list of assets/site and you can give some 3 digit ending you want so you can see the bids are the size I state AND the right ending so are obviously mine (or someone else putting them up on my behalf I guess).

I've no clue what the total will be.  Right now cash is around 500 BTC worth (15K LTC worth).  If LTC were to halve by then, it could be down to 300-350 BTC worth (20k LTC worth).  If you wonder why the values are so different to last week (way more in BTC, way less in LTC) then the answer is exchange-rate trebling + buyback of a large chunk of LTC-ATF units (capital no longer needed due to LTC rise and investors wanting to protect against the crash/correction that's happening as I type).
1388  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] LTC-ATF.B1 on: April 04, 2013, 06:17:34 PM
What are you so scared of? That we will find out you are lying about making 1.56% per day? We already know that.

Imagine, just for a second, that you're good at trading and making decent profits (a stretch I know - but give it a try).  Now imagine someone who is clueless and makes a loss wants to know exactly HOW you do it - likely with the intent to compete.  Would you give them the information for free that allows them to work out how to do things - and reduce your own profits?  Or would you say "Sorry - I'll prove that I AM making the profit but precisely how I do it is none of your fucking business".

If you managed the leap of faith (imagining you were making a profit etc) then you should have stumbled on the answer to your question.
1389  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] LTC-ATF.B1 on: April 04, 2013, 06:11:33 PM
You KNOW how I make profit - you've done it accidentally yourself a few times.  I buy things for one price and sell them for a significantly higher one.  With the massive increase in our value from LTC rising there's no way I'll be making same profit any more (in LTC).  I can still make 1% per day on BTC no problem - but when applied to our LTC value that ends up being a tiny percentage.

"I can still make 1% per day on BTC no problem"

You need your head checked. You need to stop being so pissy and explain to your investors how you are making 1% a day because no one believes you. That's what pirate said. 1% a day on exchange rates. What, you think we're stupid? You need to release your books because if anyone thinks you are making 1% a day I have some pirate bonds I'd LOVE to sell you.

No - I don't need to release my books.  I can provide that proof WITHOUT needing you show you the books.  Do you see any of my investors (equity holders) asking for the books to be made public?  Of course not - as it would be against their interests for me to provide information on exactly how a lot of the profit is being made.  If you read my posts some of it is explained - e.g. when I explained we had sizable DMC holdings and why.  The 12 BTC (from memory) of those we had made 20+ BTC profit for us in a few weeks - which was over a 20% growth ALONE for the fund (LTC was low then).  That single set of trades more than covered 2 weeks of 7% growth (nearly 3) using about 5% of total capital.  Before you come back saying my math doesn't add up, re-read my earlier posts about leverage.

I've already explained exactly how you can go find out (with my approval) that I AM making that sort of profit by buying and selling shares on the exchanges - but you have no right to the detail of individual trades.  I'm selling Coca-Coca and you think that entitles you to the secret recipe.
1390  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] LTC-ATF.B1 on: April 04, 2013, 06:00:48 PM
This is why it's so difficult to believe you. You claim on one hand that you have growth because of the change in LTC valuation. But in the very next sentence you state that the growth in LTC value is wiping out your profits. Which is it? Where is the massive 1500% growth coming from then? If you lose 18% this week how did you gain 1500% the past 25 weeks as BTC/LTC has been rising this whole time?

Please - just go look at actual exchange rates before talking such crap.

Here's how it works.

LTC-ATF keeps around 15% exposure to BTC.  Because I dynamically rebalnce to 15% regularly this equates to the following:

If LTC doubles in value vs BTC then NAV/U of the fund (in LTC) will tend to DROP by around 8-12% (actual amount varies depending how often I rebalance - which depends on how fast the move occurs and whether I'm even online).
If LTC falls vs BTC then NAV/U will tend to RISE by a similar sort of amount (8-12% per halving).

WHen the fund started the rate was .00346.  6 weeks ago it hit a low of around .0023% - so in total until then the overall impact of exchange-rate movment was a small increase in NAV/U.

THis week alone, LTC is still more than TREBLE what it started the week at (it was QUADRUPLE when I posted earlier but is falling back).  THAT is why there's a huge fall from it this week - but hasn't been before.  If you look back at historical data for LTC-ATF you'll see we've had 2 previous losing weeks - BOTH when LTC rose sharply.

Read the data.  Understand it.  Verify that what I'm sayng is true via a charting site.  Don't just guess and spout total crap like "BTC/LTC has been rising this whole time?" when in fact LTC has had a few big rises - and a few big falls but NOTHING like the last few days since the fund started.
1391  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] LTC-ATF.B1 on: April 04, 2013, 05:53:02 PM
Cut the attitude. I am a 12% holder of LTC-ATF.B1. You work for me, not the other way around. If you don't want to release your books publicly I will respect that despite your lack of respect for other's similar policy.

You're confusing debt with equity.

LTC-ATF holders have equity.  LTC-ATF.B1 purchasers own debt.  As a bond-holder you have zero say in how LTC-ATF operates - but an entitlement that your debt is paid off before equity holders get anything in the event of closure.

I don't work for you (I work for the holders of units in LTC-ATF) - I (in my role as the manager of LTC-ATF) owe you money.  The conditions of that debt are clearly laid out in the contract for LTC-ATF.B1.  They do NOT include that LTC-ATF actually makes any profit - but they DO include that LTC-ATF hold BTC-denominated assets worth more than total face value of all bonds issued and that total bond issued have a total face value of no more than 150% the NAV of LTC-ATF.

I can prove either of those conditions is met by showing just cash (that's not always the case - but is right now due to LTC being so high).
1392  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] LTC-ATF.B1 on: April 04, 2013, 05:43:10 PM

What you totally fail to underatand is that this is not about me. This isn't about exchange rates or about how LTC-ATF.B1 lost 90% of it's value. This is about why you are publishing figures that show you are making 1.56% a day yet you claim you are only 15% invested. What you are claiming is impossible.

LTC-ATF.B1 hasn't lost ANY of its value.

LTC-ATF.B1 has a face value of exactly 0.01 BTC.  It's ALWAYS had that face value.  It's traded in LTC to allow investors to gain BTC exposure without having to hold/buy BTC.  Any change in the number of LTC its worth is neither here nor there as it's NOT an LTC investment.  Think of it as a pass-though to BTC.

It's EXPLICIT intent (in its contract) is to maintain a stable BTC value - and its always done that.

You (or any investor) can at ANY time sell them back to me for face value less 1% (would be silly to actually do so - as they sell easily on the market for more).  If I know your BTC.CO account name you can even have it paid there IN BTC so there's no dispute or slippage related to exchange-rates/conversion.

You just don't seem to understand how LTC-ATF and LTC-ATF.B1, taken together, allow investors to (to a large extent - but not totally in the case of LTC-ATF) control what degree of exposure they have to BTC and LTC.  If you bought LTC-ATF.B1 thinking it was an LTC-denominated investment then you badly misread the contract.  It's as though I ran a bond with a face value of $1 then BTC rose vs USD and you started whining how the bond was losing value when it was STILL worth exactly $1.
1393  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] LTC-ATF.B1 on: April 04, 2013, 05:07:15 PM
Actually it may be very easy.

You have my permission to do the following:

Ask burnside/ukyo/rini to query the total value of buys and sales i've made on their sites (leaving out my own assets on LTC-GLObal of course - sale of my bonds/fund units aren't profit).

You can then publish the results.

And then eat your words - as when you see the results it'll be totally obvious that my results are genuine.  They don't need to match up buys/sells as there should be sufficient excess sales to show a clear profit - to which you can add the assets I logically MUST hold plus profits made operating the pass-throughs (which you totally forget to factor in - some weeks those have added a few % to profits on their own without tieing up much capital) plus profits made selling bonds into overpriced buy orders after currency moves etc.

And the best of it is - you still won't have a clue how I'm doing most of it - just that I indisputably am.

EDIT: If you tell the operators you believe I'm committig massive fraud AND that I have zero objection to them publishing the results then I'm pretty sure they'll happily give you the figures.

One additional clause (if not too late) : you should post here stating that you're asking for the figures and commit to posting them after receiving them.  If you want to make a (bigger) fool of yourself you can do it in public.
1394  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] LTC-ATF.B1 on: April 04, 2013, 04:56:36 PM
This states he's only invested with ~15% of the fund (84.84% is in currency), and yet he has experienced a 1.56% daily growth rate over the past six months despite paying out 0.6% per week (~1 BTC/week) to LTC-ATF.B1 bondholders. This does not make sense.

You fail to grasp how leveraging works.  For most of the fund's history since bonds were sold we've had bonds out at 75-100% of fund NAV.

If I have 10 units of capital and make 4% per week then owners of those units make 4% per week.
If I then sell bonds with a value equal to 10 units of capital that pay 0.6% per week.
And make 4% profit on the total 20 units of capital.
Then the unit holders make 7.4% profit per week.

You totally failed to grasp BOTH reasons why the bonds were issued:

1.  Exchange-rate exposure limitation (described in previous post)
2.  Leveraging capital to increase profits (explained very simply above)

Somewhere there's a thread I made that explained point 1 in pretty fine detail before the bond was even put up for moderator approval.  I can't be bothered to find it -but you really should as you're totally missing the whole point of the bonds and then struggling to work out why the results they've produced are exactly the results they were designed to produce.  The various limitations/ratios I set on bonds aren't just pulled out of thin air - they're calculated to meet the requirements of the fund whilst protecting those who hold our debt (the bonds).

EDIT: Deleted part of post as it possibly revealed something I don't want to reveal.

Your fund has experienced 1.56% APD for the last six months. You're either operating a ponzi or you're cooking the books. You're so scared to release anything on your fund you edit your posts to take out figures that might clue people in to what you're doing.

1. You claim to have holdings that amount to 29,000 BTC.
2. You claim to be 15% invested.
3. You claim to be making 1.56% a day on 29,000 BTC. In short you are making 31.2% a day on the 15% invested capital.

1.  Holdings have only briefly ever gone just over 1000 BTC (earlier this week when LTC peaked - they've since fallen back to well under that).
2.  Becasue of the rise in LTC and the sale back of units we're currently nearly 30% invested.  But historically 15% invested is about right.
3.  Not 29,000 BTC.  Not 1.56% per day.  Re-read the part on leveraging.  Read it again.  And again.  Until it sinks in.  Even if you ignored levergaing (you can't) and the pulled out of thin air 29,000 number (where the fuck did it come from?) then if I were making 1.56% profit on 100% of capital by using 15% I'd be making 1.56*100/15 which is NOWHERE near 31% on the 15%.  Your math is shocking here.  I just exlained leveraging - yet you insist on taking the profit % made by the base capital and acting as though it were profit made on ALL deployed capital.  The 1.56% figure is wrong even if you ignore leveraging - it's 1% compounded (and that's growth on JUST unit value - so is nearly double the rate made on ALL capital most weeks).  Then you somehow fail at basic math and multiply a totally wrong number by 3 to get an entirely imaginary one.

On your accusation that "You're so scared to release anything on your fund you edit your posts to take out figures that might clue people in to what you're doing." simply No.  Go ask a moderator to look at what I deleted from this post.  There were NO figures at ALL in it - it was a partial explanation of a concept that, on balance, I'd rather not reveal as I don't think any other traders have figured it out.

Do your math again properly then come back with the real figure for what I claim to be making per day on all capital - you'll find it's more like 0.5%-0.6%.  Now think carefully about what having 15% of capital invested means.  DO remember I DON'T invest - I trade.  My profits don't come from buying shares with 15% of capital then holding them and hoping they magically (and it would be) make about 3-4% per day.

90%+ of capital on Bitfunder is usually committed to Bids (often all bar less 1 BTC).  100%+ on BTC.CO (can reuse same capital on multiple order books).  It''s not the SAME 15% committed one week (or one day) as the next.  That just happens to be around what is often committed at one instant in time.  The whole 100% of capital on those sites is being used all the time (not the same on LTC-GLobal usually - we DO have active capital there).  So profits are made by the WHOLE 100% capital on those sites - not just the 15% that happens to be tied up (usually) briefly in shares.

A month or two back there was actually a report where we had 100% cash.  We didn't hold a single share at all ANYWHERE.  Go dig out that report, then ask the exchange operators if I actually had exactly that cash at that date - there's zero possible dispute of ANY valuation that one.

I just don't do the sort of shitty investment thing that you did so dismally at. Get over it.

Amusing, by the way, that you think me making 7%/week investing LTC into BTC (with a solid hedge against exchange-rate moves) is impossible - yet spewed thousands of BTC of your own investors money into Obsi who was claiming to do it investing BTC into fiat (with zero hedge against fiat falling vs BTC).

Anyway, if you really honestly are convinced what I've done is faked/scammed then there's a solution to it.  Pick a solid escrow who understands enough about investments to look at transactions and work out profit.  Pick a week - any week - in which I claim to have made large profits and there wasn't much change in the LTC/BTC exchange-rate.

We each pay some reasonable sum into the escrow.  I'll then run through all my trades for that week with him/her.  We'll look at all sales I made and at what price those shares were bought at.  The results will NOT exactly match my results for the week (impossible to reconstruct exactly as I average purchases and mark things down as necessary) but at end of it the simple question will be : does he believe my stated results for the week are a good faith representation of what actually happened.  I can do it over teamview/skype chat or whatever - so he can verify the results are real.

Something like 50 BTC each sound good to you?  With most of it going to me once he confirms I'm right and the escrow getting 10 to cover his time (and it won't take much time - as bulk of profit will come from a handful of trades that made 100%+ profit).  Only other condition I'd impose is that the escrow/judge does NOT reveal details of what securities I traded etc without my approval - just confirms (or denies if you manage to pay him off) that having seen my activity for the week my posted results are credible.

I'll waste my time and jump through some hoops to prove you wrong - but you're going to put your money where your mouth is to get it.   Or you can just go PM burnside/ukyo and ask them whether my holdings seem about right - then when they confirm they're right sort of size (and the cash part is indisuptaly accurate) realise that if I actually have the assets then it's more likely I made it trading than magicked it out of thin air.

Or - and here's another alternative - which would prove me correct without having to explain to you precisely what I do.  See if you can get burnside and/or ukyo to do some queries on my accounts - where the match up every sale I did (other than of my own assets) against purchases of the same and work out the net profit/loss.  If they want to charge for that then either you pay for it OR we bet on it and loser pays.

If I can prove I have the assets and that I made them by trading then it's none of your business exactly what I traded - and against my investors' interests for me to disclose it.  Any other proposals you have which will achieve those ends are welcome - and I'll give permission happily for any calculations (such as in previous paragraph) by exchange operators to be done and the results published.  Any exchange I operate on already HAS my permission to confirm the accuracy of ANY statement I make about my holdings or activities there - just not to disclose further information beyond what I've said myself.

You want to know how I'm doing it.  Tough - you aren't entitled to know that.  But I'm fine with proving I DO do it - and have ouylined a few ways of doing it above.  If it doesn't require much/any effort from me then I'll do it for free.  If it takes a significant amount of time then you'll pay for it - but by an escrowed bet so you have zero risk of me taking your bet cash and running.

I have about 75 BTC personal liquid cash that I'm fine with betting on this (by which I mean cash that could be sent to an escrow right this second).  Can go significantly higher with a day or two's notice.  And as part of any such bet ALL cash held by the fund would also be verified as present - so if any part of my bet was with the fund's cash you auto win the bet.

Put up or shut up.

Either a bet or some proposal that doesn't involve much effort for me. - e.g. go and ask exchange-operators to work out my profits on their sites : with my permission and with any reasonable fee they want for it paid by whichever of us is wrong (so if they wanted 10 BTC for it - not unreasonable - we'd bet say 20 each so there was 10 BTC for my inconvenience as well).  We'd need to work out details - but any reasonable definition of the total trading profits being of the order of magnitude I claim should be fine by me (exchange-rate conversions and currency movement can distort it both ways).

And remember - I'm only interested in proving that I DID make the profit, I'm not teaching you for free/cheap how to do it yourself.

Oh - and it's any help in convincing you easily, right now I claim assets of 650-700 BTC for the fund (LTC having fallen in last hours has lowered it a bit).  If I prove I have those I'm fine with also proving I have the extra 75 BTC of my own lieing around idle (in fact right this instant they're in USD but they may be in BTC some time shortly) as well : so it's pretty simple for me to prove control of more assets than the total value of fund+bonds.  Which just leaves the question of whether i'm periodically depositing more, pretneding they're profit, then allowing investors to withdraw it (which would have to be the worst ponzi ever) or am actually making the profit the way I say I am.
1395  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] LTC-ATF.B1 on: April 04, 2013, 03:34:32 PM
This states he's only invested with ~15% of the fund (84.84% is in currency), and yet he has experienced a 1.56% daily growth rate over the past six months despite paying out 0.6% per week (~1 BTC/week) to LTC-ATF.B1 bondholders. This does not make sense.

You fail to grasp how leveraging works.  For most of the fund's history since bonds were sold we've had bonds out at 75-100% of fund NAV.

If I have 10 units of capital and make 4% per week then owners of those units make 4% per week.
If I then sell bonds with a value equal to 10 units of capital that pay 0.6% per week.
And make 4% profit on the total 20 units of capital.
Then the unit holders make 7.4% profit per week.

You totally failed to grasp BOTH reasons why the bonds were issued:

1.  Exchange-rate exposure limitation (described in previous post)
2.  Leveraging capital to increase profits (explained very simply above)

Somewhere there's a thread I made that explained point 1 in pretty fine detail before the bond was even put up for moderator approval.  I can't be bothered to find it -but you really should as you're totally missing the whole point of the bonds and then struggling to work out why the results they've produced are exactly the results they were designed to produce.  The various limitations/ratios I set on bonds aren't just pulled out of thin air - they're calculated to meet the requirements of the fund whilst protecting those who hold our debt (the bonds).

EDIT: Deleted part of post as it possibly revealed something I don't want to reveal.
1396  Economy / Securities / Re: NYAN/BMF/CPA final claims process (updated Apr 4) on: April 04, 2013, 03:13:12 PM
NOONE could look at that post and work out what assets BMF held - let alone what they were worth.  As it's out of date and incomplete.  All it needs is a spreadsheet with a column for the asset, a column for the quantity a column for any value realised and a column for any value distributed.  You certainly used to know how to make spreadsheets like that - and you don't even have to make up values for things you haven't sold this time.

Usagi knows that if he posts the actual numbers that he will be called out of being a fraud again. As long as he keeps everything secret then he can maintain the delusion that he is a high paid Wall Street broker.   

Noticed a typoe by me in my post you quoted - it says "NOONE could look at that post and work out what assets BMF held" it should say "NOONE could look at that post and work out what assets BMF holds" - the issue isn't so much what he had when GLBSE closed as what's now left of it and what happened with the funds from those parts that were sold (and how much those funds were).

Your explanation is probably correct : he'd prefer his assets to be listed so he could refuse to account for things and just wait until people gave in and sold into lowball offers he placed on the market.  Which is, of course, entirely the opposite of what happens normally in a liquidation - where all assets are accounted for and the proceeds distributed equally between equity-holders (after payment to any debtors of course).

He may also hope that if he can get Nyan.A investors to sell back via the market for cheap he can then give some proceeds out to CPA shareholders - proceeds which should, of course, have been dividended by now to Nyan.A in contribution towards CPA's "guarantee" of their 1 BTC face value.
1397  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] LTC-ATF.B1 on: April 04, 2013, 02:51:21 PM
What magical thing has he invested in that has given him over 1,500% growth denominated in BTC in six months? Does this make sense to anyone? deprived is saying that in US dollar terms he has achieved something like .. wait for it...

180,000% growth in 6 months

What you totally fail to understand - and this is shocking from someone who ran investments (even badly) - is how currencies play into this.

LTC-ATF mainly holds LTC - most of our BTC investment is backed by these bonds, which cancel them out.  That means that if LTC rises vs BTC or vis fiat our fund's value also rises vs them.

A month ago if I held 10 LTC they were worth $0.70 total.
Now if I hold 10 LTC they're worsth $45.

You do the math on what % growth that is in a few weeks without ANY trading needed at all.

6 weeks ago LTC was at .00232 vs BTC.  Now it's at .03416.  That's over a 1000% increase in 6 weeks without ANY trading needed.  You work out what that is at an annualised rate (hint: it's a LOT higher than the figure you quoted).

If you try to value something in one currency against another currency that it's risen against of course it's going to have fucking risen.  Are you retarded or something?

The ONLY growth that is down to my trading activity is the change in LTC valuation (if LTC falls then not even all of that is - and when LTC rises some of my trading growth is wiped out).  This week LTC has risen massively vs BTC/USD (like 300-400%).  As a result of that at present we're down about 18% for the week (as we have SOME exposure).

You KNOW how I make profit - you've done it accidentally yourself a few times.  I buy things for one price and sell them for a significantly higher one.  With the massive increase in our value from LTC rising there's no way I'll be making same profit any more (in LTC).  I can still make 1% per day on BTC no problem - but when applied to our LTC value that ends up being a tiny percentage.

A month or two back if I made 5 BTC profit that was nearly a 10% rincrease for the week - look back at how small the fund was then.  Today I've made 5 BTC+ profit already whilst AFK and it's not even a 1% increase.  But that has NO impact on ability  to service bonds - as the percentage profit I make on BTC-denominated capital hasn't changed - just the impact it has when applied to (now significantly more valuable) LTC capital base.

No I'm not going to open my books to you.  If you want to learn how to make a profit, go pay someone.  However EITHER of the following options IS open to you:

1.  After this week's report I'll PROVE that I have all the cash I claim to have.  Understand that it's down signficantly form last week - a bunch of units have been bought back in LTC-ATF (this will be hard for you grasp but I've rebought 200-300 BTC worth of units yet our value in BTC has more than doubled this week - it's to do with exchange-rates if you're struggling to figure it out).  I can do it easily enough - by placing bids on all sites (proving on BTC-E will be trickiest : as I risk orders being filled there due to not being able to scroll down order and so am unable to place bids miles out of the money).  Right now we're at 72.3% cash - down from last week due to buying back over 1/4 of LTC-ATF units with cash (obviously).

2.  Find someone I trust not to use/exploit information and I'll open the books for JUST TODAY on one site site to them - show what I sold and when I bought it and at what price.  They can then confirm that JUST today's trading on ONE site generated more than the profit I need to pay the interest on ALL bonds for a week.  I THINK I'm up over a month's bond payments on ONE site TODAY but I know for sure there's at least 2 trades that each made a week's interest for all 162 BTC-worth of bonds.

You just don't understand numbers seems to be the problem.  You think Wow - how can he pay interest on all those bonds?  Yet 0.6% per week interest on 162 BTC worth of bonds is ... a miserly 1 BTC.  Which can be made by flipping 10 BTC worth of shares at a 10% profit.

And get a clue about exchange-rates and different currencies.  If you invest in BTC and it rises 10% vs USD you don't become a ponzi because you made over 7%.  Simialrly when I invest with LTC and it rises 3000% in 6 weeks vs fiat - don't blame me for that 3000% rise, but you CAN blame me for issuing BTC-denominated bonds to offset (a lot of) our BTC investments so that LTC-ATF got to keep most of that that rise AND most of the profits from trading in BTC all the weeks there wasn't a big rise.

All the results are showing is EXACTLY what the bonds were designed to do.  Increase profits by leveraging capital whilst not incurring overwhelming BTC exposure.

The short answer to "what has he invested in that gave 1500% profit vs BTC" is "LTC".  That's why our shares are sold in LTC.  That's why we're on LTC-Global.  That's why our name begins with LTC.  LTC has approximately tripled vs BTC from fund start until last report (and more than trebled in the last 3-4 days).  Without that our growth is only about 500% - which is the modest trading profits I've made.

And don't short-change me - with this week's trading we're now at over 6500% growth in BTC and I guess an order of magnitude larger in fiat.

We have lots of cash because:

1.  I like high liquidity.  ALL of my assets give instant buybacks at near NAV to ALL investors.  If you want to cash in your LTC-ATF.B1 bonds then either place them on market at near face-value converted to LTC (they sell fast anywhere near it usually) or return them to me and I'll send 99% of face-value in either LTC (pretty random what you get with exchange-rates moving around) or BTC (you get exactly .0099 per share - sent on BTC.CO as Bitfunder doesn't seem to have a transfer function for BTC).
2.  I don't buy stuff just to use cash.  I place orders for what I want at prices I want to pay and wait until they fill.  I'd guess usually 90% of cash on Bitfunder is backing orders and well over 100% on BTC.CO (can use same cash to back multiple orders on different books there).

Now you may well then say "But you're only willing to prove you have 73% of assets in cash - you might be lieing about the rest".  IF you're that stupid then here's a clue :  If your argument is that I can't make the profits I say I make with the assets I claim to have, how did I manage to make most of it without any assets at all?

The cash I can readily show is more than sufficient to buy back ALL LTC-ATF.B1 bonds AND ALL LTC-ATF units other than those I personally own (and I'd still have a nice chunk of cash + the best part of 200 BTC worth of securities).  But maybe I'm running some wierd ponzi - where I keep my own money to cover everyone's deposits, add to it so as I can prove profits I didn't make and then let them cashout nearly ALL their profits at ANY time. 

Remember LTC-ATF has a bidwall up for 100 units at 50 LTC.  That's 5k LTC = ~175 BTC at current exchange-rate.  And you'll see a few hundred already bought back recently - some when rate was even higher.  There's only 300 units outstanding in the fund.  So I have a bid up for 1/3 of those at a rate which can be converted into BTC at the current profit (if measured in BTC) of 6500%.   Oh - and did I mention that I personally own over half those 300 units anyway?  That's AFTER I cashed out some of mine this week (and other investors did too) so we could lock in profits from this LTC bubble.  Pretty bad scam if I'm paying out 6500% profits, not selling more units (we don't need to sell more - in fact I'd LIKE to buy back another 50 units if LTC stays where it is) and keep a bidwall up nearly permanently.  Only time it wasn't up recently was after another investor sold back 100 units whilst I was asleep.  I just rebalanced currencies and slung up another 100 unit order (contract only obliges me to maintain a bidwall for 5% of units but as we have the cash and can't actually use all the LTC I keep a fat wall up).

Summary.  Just because the investments YOU run don't make a profit and can't provide/maintain liqudiity don't assume everyone is so incompetent.  And that I've been averaging 7% per week when capital was low does NOT mean I'll continue to do so (in fact I've recently stated that I almost certainly won't - though amusingly I think I likely WOULD have made 7%+ this week had LTC not risen so much, in fact it could well have been a 20%+ week).

I can very easily prove I have the cash I claim to have.  I'd prefer to do it after publishing a weekly report - as then there's a record of what I'm claiming to have.  I've already given blanket permission for burnside/Ukyo to confirm ANY statement I make about holdings on their site are accurate (I accept this is tricky for shares - especially for lTC-Global with the current exchange-rate madness, but BTC.CO/Bitfunder are easy to prove).  I'm also happy to prove to someone independent and not likely to pass the details on that I've made more than 1 BTC on one site today - which is all I need to make in a week to pay interest on the bonds (your supposed concern).  Suggest someone if you want me to do that - I'd show all trades on that site today, show where those shares were bought (and for how much) and they could then see over 1 BTC profit.  Hell I'll do it for tomorrow instead if you think I cherry-picked today (hint on that - I have unrealised profits I could turn in any time, but they don't go on the books until I do it as until I actually sell the profit isn't secure). 

You can verify the holdings for the pass-throughs (and the float I hold above that) any time with Rini - again without needing further permission from me.  What I'm not going to do is give a play-by-play description of my trades as whilst most of it's very simple stuff there's some things I trade/do that I don't want other people interfering in.

If I can prove I have sufficient cash to cover all units not held by me (at the 6500% profit in BTC level) AND all LTC-ATF.B1 bonds then kind of rules out most scams immediately (as if you believe I DO have the assets then all funds are what I say they are, and if you think I don't then where the fuck did all the profit come from?).  If I can prove I can cover the cost of the bonds in 1 day on 1 site then that proves that I've no problem paying the bonds off.  You're free at any time to ask burnside/ukuo/rini whether I have holdings of the type of size I claim to have -I'm not going to argue over share prices to get to my exact figures : if you think it might only be 6400% instead of 6500% then that's a rather different discussion but feel free to move the goalposts once you've made some enquiries and found out I actually DID have exactly the claimed balances at the time of last report AND shares with around the claimed value (note: on one site, think BTC.CO, an order went through whilst I was producing my reprot - so there's X more BTC and X less value of shares or vice-versa).
1398  Economy / Securities / Re: NYAN/BMF/CPA final claims process (updated Apr 4) on: April 04, 2013, 11:56:46 AM
I'm not claiming Nyan.A has no assets - I've never claimed that.  Quite the contrary.  If you won't post details of what assets they have (or a valuation of them if you have a reason not to disclose them) then it has no business being listed.

The first post in this thread has BMF's assets and NYAN's assets are listed a few posts down from that. All of your other questions were answered in this thread months ago as well.

The first post says things like:

"DMC (1300 shares, claimed on BitFunder, unknown value)
Jan 27 - Estimated value is 0.1 per share based on holdings of 1,000 ASICMINER and 1000 BTC-MINING. We have the shares on BitFunder. Have sold 300. Will post an update after auction closes."

Do you still have them?  Were they sold?  Were the funds distributed?

Others say they were sold but not whether the funds were distributed.

Nowhere do I see the mining rigs/orders.

NOONE could look at that post and work out what assets BMF held - let alone what they were worth.  As it's out of date and incomplete.  All it needs is a spreadsheet with a column for the asset, a column for the quantity a column for any value realised and a column for any value distributed.  You certainly used to know how to make spreadsheets like that - and you don't even have to make up values for things you haven't sold this time.
1399  Economy / Securities / Re: NYAN/BMF/CPA final claims process (updated Apr 4) on: April 04, 2013, 11:29:32 AM
Why does Nyan.A need to be approved? [...] Without ANY information on what current assets it has noone can possibly place a value on it and it has no business being listed.

Please read the recent explanation on this thread a few posts up regarding the forced buyback a few weeks ago. WRT the assets -- again -- you don't know what you are talking about. People have been saying there were no assets back when we did the liquidation auction. People were saying we had no assets back before I went after brendio. Now here you are saying we have no assets again. You're welcome to your opinion, it has nothing to do with me.

As far as I know (correct me if wrong) ...

Go back and read what you posted in the TU.SILVER thread about how I was doubledealing silver etc. before you ask me a question like that. Right now I don't have time to help you with that. Just make sure you don't scam people with your LTC-ATF.B1 and we'll be cool.

I'm not claiming Nyan.A has no assets - I've never claimed that.  Quite the contrary.  If you won't post details of what assets they have (or a valuation of them if you have a reason not to disclose them) then it has no business being listed.

Pure gambles where "investors" are supposed to trade things with no information on their worth are entirely inappropriate.  Well done on debunking a point that not only did I not make, but is the opposite of what I stated.

That nyan.b/c want some cash is NOT a reason to let them try to sell worthless shares to the public.  Or are you saying nyan.b may have a non-zero value?  If so then we need information on assets even more badly.

If you want to reopen the TU/Silver dsicsussion we can do that.  Here's a clue - if you take double something's current value then take away what you paid for it you don't necessarily (or often) get the current value.  You were doing 2*X-Y and believing it ended up with X.  It usually doesn't.  I dropped it as it was boring and entirely trivial compared to your contract still containing lies that it's a silver shop (it's not - only a small % of share price is silver), the cheapest on the net (it's not by a mile) etc.  Given that you weren't even doing what you said you'd be doing, arguing over how you valued it seemed pointless - though I do note you've changed your calculation, so the mistakes are likely different ones now.
1400  Economy / Securities / Re: [GLBSE] BIB.BVPS - Invest in BitVPS through GLBSE - BIB depositary receipts on: April 04, 2013, 11:16:45 AM
Nice to see a happy ending for once.
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