Indeed..

That's why shorting should be illegal.

That said, when it's an avalanche on all exchanges it seems legit enough. An avalanche on one single exchange would look more suspect.

& who even knows if this wasn't a test for the "Bitcoin futures" guys (or alike) to know how predictably they can bank on dips..

A stop order has nothing to do with a limit order, it basically tells the exchange to tell if the price falls below a price. It's a safety net. But a wrong one (but stop+limit is ok) for crypto.

Read my post here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2489032.0

Really, you shouldn't use market stop orders, and exchanges shouldn't offer them. They aren't made for stuff this volatile.
You should use stop limit orders, or nothing if the exchange doesn't allow it.

Besides, exchanges do warn about slippage when using those.
It sucks to use them for you, and it sucks for the market that appears to be crashing way more than it actually should.

I think that guy lost 130k actually.

Do people really have to lose money to understand what a (market) stop order is?

What I see on Bitfinex & GDAX is frightening. Some really have sold their NEO at $4 (& thus some lucky ones have bought). Some have sold their OMG at $3.
Did they mean to? Of course not. It has happened in the past, and poor users cried & threatened to sue exchanges.

Market stop orders shouldn't be used, and they shouldn't even exist for crypto or anything this volatile.
What we saw yesterday was the result of a cascade of stop loss orders, nothing else. There was hardly a manual panic, it was automated panic.

At first I thought that Bitstamp had crashed, but then I realized that maybe it had been closed on purpose for a short time, to avoid this (especially considering Bitstamp had been pointed for such problems with stop orders in the past).

These are automated, they probably get a higher priority, happen very fast, hog servers, not even leaving buyers a chance to buy.
Perhaps all exchange need a protection for this, really freezing on purpose when this kind of crap occurs. There is a big difference between a panic sale that comes from humans, and the one from a cascade of stop orders.

So stop using stupid market stop orders. Use a limit stop order if your exchange offers one, or just don't.
Pretty sure that all exchanges will now start to turn their market stop order into limit ones, after this event, or the next ones. It's not even a bug, it's offering the wrong tool for the market.

Or... keep placing stop orders.. and give your money to some lucky guys who will make 300% in a few seconds.

FWIW I've finished moving everything out of Kraken. Really, other exchanges are wayyyyyy better. Only today I saw Bitstamp & GDAX slow down to a crawl during the BTC dip, and yet they were still much more usable than Kraken on a normal day.

GDAX is very hard to register, but Bitstamp, Bitfinex & Bittrex are pretty easy. The 2 last ones are not EUR-friendly, but once you've bought something on Bitstamp, you can transfer it there for funding.

I'm really done with Kraken. I liked the trading view, though. Nice to see the dots where previous orders were, I don't think any of the others has that.

yeah that's why stop orders suck

Considering the fall was not very big everywhere else, it's quite possible that it was a chain reaction of stop losses.

Otherwise someone out there is very rich & very dumb & doesn't know how a market sell works.

It's in EUR that you have to check it.

9600eur ..to.. 7000eur

..in a few seconds.


That was entertaining, it was almost like DragonSlayer happening. Except it was just in EUR, & didn't do much except hanging a few exchanges.
GDAX hanged, and Bitstamp was so slow it nearly was as bad as Kraken on a normal day.

Yeah in usd & other exchanges the fall was much weaker.


The lucky ones who had orders at 7000 there, made x 2300 in a few seconds.

I'm now on Bitfinex & Bitstamp, and still had some money left on Kraken. Decided to buy some EOS that was low enough.. I don't know if it's sad or hilarious.. but it took me 45min of fiddling, trying to place orders / cancelling doubles.. and of course by the time it had already rised back.
And I can't even tell why there would be so much activity right now - nothing special is happening.

So I moved nearly all my money out. At this point, months later, the "we suddenly got too many users and we have to upgrade our servers to cope with it" excuse doesn't work anymore. It sounds more like "we're going bankrupt but we can't announce it yet". Bye Kraken, moving out while it's still time.
The only thing I still have there are REPs, because Bitfinex doesn't have them. And of course, all the fractions of coins that are unsellable, and that you keep for yourself. That must be quite some money for you, in all user accounts.

Wasn't that Roger Ver asshole behind Kraken? Sad that he can't put his money in maintenance, instead of wasting it pumping the BCH.

What's interesting is how BTC takes a little dip every time BCH goes below 1200, it is ALWAYS bought from BTC.

Could it be that the reason they dumped so high was just the first step, to stack enough money to buy everything below 1200, so that 1200usd becomes the bottom & the coin feels more & more solid?
Maybe a lot of asians wanna get into BCH & they enter at bottom price, but how many times will it hit the same bottom price, who in his sane mind would still be willing to buy something that keeps bouncing like this?

And now they (if they haven't sold lower) are forming big walls up there. Someone buying BCH now knows he won't be able to sell much higher for a long long time now.

Exactly.

Bitcoin is the bank. Even though my bank allows me to pay online, I prefer Paypal, that gives me more protection, is easier to use, and can feed from my bank account, Visa or whatever.
Not counting that the other way of transfering money, bank transfers, litterally take several days.

No one needs to micropay from a large bank account, and most importantly, people do want protection, even if that means their name is on their money.

A random guy would never buy from another random guy online using Bitcoin. You'd pay and never see anything. Now good luck to find someone who even remotely cares about your problem.

And btw, this (also in other forms) was everywhere 3 months ago apparently. Assuming that you can't fake dates there so easily.
https://steemit.com/bitcoin/@crypteller/bitcoin-cash-conspiracy-theory

Now there are 2 possibilities.
-it was indeed all written all along (even the "pump up to 10% of BTC value, which is *exactly* what they did to prepare this)

-that conspiracy theory INSPIRED those assholes and they did it



Also, it's undeniable now that it was all plotted. Now the big question remains: WHY the dump?
I see 3 possibilities here:

1. Ver/McAfee/whoever the other assholes are, never intended the BCH to win, and wanted to make money.
I doubt it, because it's really the miner's best interest that BCH wins. They would have made more money in the long term.

2. a whale was aware of the plot (since apparently some where 3 months ago), and prepared a dump to counter it. In a movie, that would be Satoshi himself. Now THAT would be the perfect plot twist.

3. ONE of the assholes who agreed to participate in the pump (most likely not a miner) betrayed the others, and cashed out.

4. (more boring) a random whale, unrelated to the plot, wanted to make quick money & cached out

What do you think?

Could it be?
BCH at 1200 again, BTC rising quickly.

What makes me think it could be over, is that most alts had rised too, meaning they were moved from the BCH too.

Lots of BTC bought at low prices, though. They're already making big walls, it will slow down the rise a lot.

200% in a few hours, that's the boat.

For those who bought for hedging, fine, it's a safety net. For hedging you'd better buy a couple at 1000 and forget about it.
For profit, it has happened once & it won't happen again.

It was quick money, and some missed it. I'm just telling them it's not gonna happen again, because this time there are sellers.

What scares me though, is that there's almost a 1:1 correlation between both prices now. BCH goes up by 300, BTC goes down by 300, while BCH is only 20% of BTC's price.

Really, there's no need to try. You saw a parabolic rise, you think you missed the boat, ok. It's not gonna happen again.

Lots of people have put a lot of money for that rise to happen, they want their money back now, and they will dump on you at every level. Like right now, a straight 300usd dump in this shit's last attempt to resurrect.

But go ahead & buy the debt of those who haven't sold in time, & pray for another rise to buy yours.

..or leave that crap alone and stop compromising the Bitcoin. That's for the few non-asian who think it's still a good idea.

BCH just did try again, and I enjoyed watching a big dump at 1550 down to 1200 again.

Lots of people have money up there now & will dump to get their money back. It won't be that easy this time.

Yeah but if I explain it this way, are you still interested?

You put your money in a pot. Everyone does. At one undisclosed time, the last 30% money that was put in, is lost instantly.
Sure you'd be tempted to get in early, but remember that you don't know when you're a loser.

If this sounds a great idea to you, you should check Bitconnect, it's that kind of ponzi scheme where the last ones entering are the big losers.

Sell your BCH while it's still above 1000usd. Right now it's artificially pumped above 1000 by bots, but the ones keeping it alive won't waste their money forever.
It was a pump & dump, you don't buy while it's still dumping.

You also don't wanna invest in a coin that has jut proven to be massively held by a couple of whales who orchestrate pumping, because they will just use you to make more money.
Some won a lot from this shit, some (buying above 2000) lost a lot, but the big winners are the organizers.