You demostrate your misunderstanding of what gold-bugs want. Or at least the 'gold-bugs' I'm talking about are the ones that hate Nixon because he took America off the gold-standard. That bastard did a lot of crap, but the gold-standard, that's their problem with him. Jeesh.

In todays world you can pay your taxes in fiat and feel free to buy whatever is out there for sale, gold, pie, silk, copper... price goes up, price goes down, knock yerself out. Why all the hate for fiat? Makes no sense really, strikes me as a waste of time. Don't like dollars? Spend em on land then, or copper, or gold. Problem with dollars at the moment isn't some cretchety Rand-enjoyer in a bunker somewhere convinced the evil communo-fascist gurn'mint is out to steal his bodily fluids, to me the major issue is the sky-rocketing commodity prices drowning out the ability to eat of people living in the 3rd world. So the yanks can't afford that extra 4x4, who gives a fuck.

Actually I take that back, the amount of homeless food-stamp dependant people in the US is sky-rocketing too, along with the struggle of all those average Egyptians or Mexicans or Indians and so on trying to feed their families on inflating rice or corn or what have you.

Just my two toshi anyway.

No, loans really do create liabilities of actual wokr/value-creation out of thin air, same place entrepeneurs figuratively speaking get their ideas from (staring up at the big blue sky thinking about new business models).  Basically speaking in business the future does not exist as a reality until we set things down on paper and then work to make it happen.

Banks are limited however in how much money they can 'magic' into existence by how much money they have in their account at the Central Bank. It's called the reserve requirment.

Central banks try to control how much money banks loan out in order to control inflation, they do this either via OMOs or changing the reserve requirements. The issues involved are completely different from the Star Wars struggle your average Mises/gold-bug type likes to babble on about (where the brave Sith men-of-will take on the evil collectivist rebel hordes or whatever).

anyway bottom line is that you may as well shreik at map-makers for drawing an Equator across the Earth that doesn't actually exist. Map-makers and the shady interests that back them might suck for many reasons but the concept of notional lines themselves is not the problem.

You say Economics 101, but a disturbingly large number of posters in this forum have only ever read a few Mises articles or watched Alex Jones-type documentaries about how the banks are all run by communo-fascist lizards.

I think it's a shame, there's a lot wrong with the economic system but the first step to an intelligent response is to understand the problem. The outrage one encounters that bankers 'make money out of nothing!!!1!' is frankly embarrassing.

Time!? Time doesn't Exist! It's just... Numbers on a Clock-face!!! Some guy at Casio just Types the numbers into a MaCHiNE!!!1

fuck sake.

I wonder if they have noticed and are puzzled by the great sales they're having.

Dear sir

In the glory of god I thank you for reading this email, my late father Cheif Professor Doctor Director Emmanuel Odjomo of Oyo State Nigeria had told me when I was a child that were anything to befall him that I should seek the aid of a god-fearing and trustworthy individual such as yourself. I have been recommended by mutual friend in the Nigerian Minitstry for Energy that you are a god fearing and trustworthy individual such as I have been searching for, and so after long thought, prayer and reflection I have decided to approach you.

My father was Director at the Nigerian Ministry for Energy, and during the course of his time there he has accumilated many amount of money for the church because he was a devout Christian and wished to help the cause of Jesus Christ as much as it was his possibility to do so. Therefore he was able to make arrangements that certain payments of taxes should be put aside for the cause of Jesus Christ. Unfortunately my father Chief Professor Doctor Director Emmanual Odjomo was tragically gunned down by corrupt police in a car chase.

My father was able before he died to inform me of the monies that he had worked diligently to raise for the church, and which have now been placed in the Bank of Lagos in Nigeria. However due to the corruption of the police in Nigeria I am unable to ensure that this money will reach its intended recipients in an Christian Orphanage in Ibadan. My fathers friend in the Ministry of Energy has said to me that the best way to make this moneys available for the work of god is to buy bitcoins with it equal to the amount of Nira that I have, this way the moneys will be beyond the reach of the corrupt Nigerian police men and from there we would be able to pursue gods work in Jesus name. Of course you would be rewarded handsomely by a significant bonus in addition to the payment of money for these bitcoins, although as the money in total amounts only to 6 Hundred Million Nira (2,367,554.36 GBP or 3,863,490.32 USD) I hope that your kindness and faith in god will mean that you will be merciful and inconvenience yourself in order that the work of the church may be pursued fully and in Jesus name. 5000 bitcoin should be enough.

I throw myself upon your mercy as I am only a young girl that does not know enough about the affairs of financial matters and must trust that you as a god fearing person will not abandon me to my plight in facing my fathers many enemies in the corrupt police force, if I cannot exchange this holy money for bitcoins I will surely be arrested and imprisoned. All I ask for is that you can provide your bank details so that I can pay the money to you and be able to assist the Christian Orphanage in Ibadan, Nigeria. I hope that 6 Hundred Million Nira (2,367,554.36 GBP or 3,863,490.32 USD) worth of bitcoin will be enough for some building to fix the roof of the Orphanage as my understanding of money matters is not enough to make an accurate assessment of the necessary cost for such works and hope that you might perhaps advise me in this matter furthermore.

In the name of Jesus, God Bless You.
Mary Owulowo Odjomo, Daughter of the late Chief Professor Doctor Director Emmanuel Odjomo, former Director of the Ministry of Energy in Nigeria.


please provide your account details so that I can send the moneys in payment to you, and send the bitcoins to the value of (2,367,554.36 GBP or 3,863,490.32 USD) to:

1NaHLkjYMV6kK45Pep5uwH1rJgi4dyMR3U

The reason why gold-bug fiatphobes are idiots is because they want the government to decree that one little portrait of some historical slave-owning figure or other should be redeemable for one small amount of yellow metal.

This, say the gold-bugs, is better than same government decreeing that they will accept your little slave-owner portraits as tax.

Bitcoin is better than all that, let it float free, gain and lose value as the economy needs. The amount of yellow metal in society is irrelevant, and should not impinge on peoples ability to setup new enterprises and invest in new industries. Liberate the purchasing power man, let it swoop and soar, don't tie it down with all that shinny yellow aristocrap.

Bitcoins one drawback is that so many of it's early adherents are stuck in a Star Wars fantasy land of their own creation.

Only this time the 'good guys' are the Sith....

I don't yet, but I decided to spend less time on the internet arguing with numskulls and more time learning Python.

Dunno if Python would be a good choice for this sort of thing but I already have a project. More clients on more platforms would be good for bitcoin generally though, people still talking about a bitcoin rival seem to me to be missing some implications of this project, effectively they are talking about rivals to the current clients, not bitcoin itself.

Just my two toshi.

I was wondering, the essence of bitcoin is in the block-chain right? There's no reason why there can't be many different clients with many different features and interfaces that all can transact or even mine for bitcoins, correct?

No, but if you want that sort of thing wrap it yourself, there's nothing to stop you.

Well it worked, and thank fuck for useful idiots.

I can be more civil, but why is it acceptable for some people to make vast sweeping blatantly inaccurate and false statements about people with whom they disagree politically or in terms of economic thought?

I have said repeatedly that I am not a socialist, but that I do not consider socialism an insult, in response I have been called a socialist anyway (as if socialists don't know whether they are socialists or not) and furthermore I've been told that I support the nature and the mismanagements of the government of Belarus. I do not support that, and it is deeply offensive to me for it to be suggested that I do. Why has this false accusation been leveled against me? Because I have said that government must be an agent of the community as a whole, because I have suggested that there is merit to the concept that we who live together in a society have common interests that it makes sense to pool resources in order to maintain.

This is merely to state my conception of the role of government, taxes, expenditure and society. It's a big fucking leap to conclude from that that I want government thugs to kick peoples doors down and drag away their stuff to spend it maintaining dead-beats and losers in the lap of luxury.

This dire misrepresentation is not only completely unjustified, insulting to me and to the vast majority of working people that pay their taxes and benefit from the expenditure of those taxes in various ways at various times of their life. Therefore a vast majority of tax paying people would have to consider themselves the dead-beats and losers, stealing from... themselves I suppose.

If I were to say instead that I want to tear down all government on the grounds that "what survives is good" and proudly announce that I would be happy to watch children starve to death to uphold my principal against "welfare" and anyone who does not agree with this is a "socialist" and that all "socialists" basically support genocide andf hate freedom, this would be considered reasonable argument and not just "hateful rhetoric" where no attempt is made to understand how or why those that disagree with me hold their point of view..

I agree, the world view typified by hazek is so riddled with self-contradictions and faithfully regurgitated nonsense from the likes of the pitiful Ayn Rand or the cult-like Mises.org. I'm tempted to consider this 'Anarcho-Capitalism' as the new Fascism.

It is endorsed by a bewildered middle-class under pressure by a manipulative ruling class, resentful, fearful and contemptuous of the underclass, bamboozled by the obliquities of international finance, fetishistic of the primacy of the will and wishing to return to some idealized glorious past. All very similar in my humble opinion to the support given various fascist movements in the 1930's.

I feel I have presented my arguments well enough. To the denizens of a banckrupt, orwellian and immoral school-of-thought however, the fate of my arguments on this thread were to pass...

Deeply deeply confused.

Perhaps you should start another thread in Economics or Off-topic asking what are the differences between left-wing politics and a dictatorship. I would be happy to assist you in any way I can there.

My beleif is that you are deeply confused and angered by a complex world you do not understand and resentful that you must share said world with other human beings.

Mises cannot help you though, you should abandon that rubbish.

After 4 lines I concluded the same.

Actually I beleive in a mixed economy. Call me a socialist, I'm not one but I do not consider it an insult. Socialists are proud to be so, and I respect what they're trying to do. Socialism helped rebuild Europe.

Libertarianism is not hard to figure, it's embarrassingly easy to understand the mind-set of the movement...

A mature thing to say.

My concern is for the newcomers, I don't want them to think bitcoin belongs only to Libertards and Rand-enjoyers.

I agree, I don't think a bitcoin-planet would be described as Libertarian. I shouldn't be too harsh on you guys, I beleive your fanatical zeal (though misguided in my opinion) will provide a sustaining core for this technology on the long road to wide adoption. Like the CIA funding the Mujahadeen in a way, yeah...

I doubt the result will be anything like what you expect however, though I do think it could be better than what we have now.

In nature everything has a use.

Onward to Kabul!