---== 🔥 New video 🔥 ==---5 facts about Satodime---------------------------------== What's Satodime ==--------------------------------- Satodime is a bearer chip card that allows you to exchange crypto assets like any banknote. Safely pass it along multiple times thanks the secure chip, unseal anytime with ease. Trustless, easy to verify and completly secure. Satodime: - is affordable; - is NFC ready; - can support Bitcoin, Litecoin, Bitcoin Cash, Ethereum and all the ERC-20 and ERC-721 tokens; - can contain up to 3 secure vaults, meaning you can safely store 3 wallets. - is trustless; - and customizable.  --------------------------------==- New video ==--------------------------------- Last month, we released a promotional video about Satodime: https://youtu.be/JwRv1Qk4_S4Today, we are pleased to release our new video: 5 facts about Satodime.  -> https://youtu.be/10S0618JYq0---------------------------------== Useful links ==--------------------------------- 🐤 Follow us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/Satochip🛫 Join us on Telegram: https://t.me/Satochip🌐 Website: https://satochip.io/product/satodime🔥 Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwRv1Qk4_S4 |
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Really interesting product. I have been evaluating opendime for some bulk requirement and this seems much better in terms of formfactor and use with mobiles
However, the following 2 things are not at all clear to me:
1.) When I give an opendime to some 3rd party they check the balance (with the wallet id / pubkey / qr) and they can check that it is still SEALED by visually seeing that the hole has not been punched out and hence they know that I did not access the private key or note it down or get the recovery seed phrase. Therefore they are ok to pay me the value on the opendime and take the opendime with them.
If i had any way to access the private key they would not do the transaction as I could go back home and enter the pvt key / recovery phrase in any other wallet and be able to spend the balance on the opendime i just gave them.
Since opendime ensures private key is only released when that hole is punched out so this "bearer instrument" thing works.
With Satodime I can't make out how to verify that the private key has never been disclosed or accessed (used to sign) ?
Opendime also has a process to verify that the firmware is not tampered and the hardware is not spoofed to look and act like opendime when it might be something else entirely (evil maid attack vector)
2.) Does this work with the NFC readers on most smartphones/mobiles ? Or do we need the USB Reader and a Laptop/PC ?
It would be great if you could clarify these points.
Are the satodime & satochip cards available in stock at satochip.io or will there be some lead period before they are shipped ?
Excellent questions. 1) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- While Opendime requires to break the device in order to retrieve the private key, Satodime relies on the secure chip. Satodime is a smartcard that stores cryptographic keypairs securely in a secure chip (also called Secure Element). Each keypair can be associated with a specific address on a blockchain. Each keypair is generated inside the secure chip and can be in any one of 3 states at any time: - uninitialized: the keypair has not been generated yet - sealed: the keypair has been generated securely inside the chip - unsealed: the private key has been revealed Since the private key is generated inside the secure chip, a Satodime bearer can be certain that nobody (including himself) knows the private key until the key is unsealed. In effect, a Satodime allows to physically transfer cryptocurrencies such as Bitcoin from one person to another, without having to trust the bearer of the Satodime, AS LONG AS THE KEY IS IN THE SEALED STATE. YOU SHOULD NEVER ACCEPT A SATODIME FROM SOMEONE IF A KEYSLOT IS UNSEALED! Depending on the model, from 1 up to 3 keypairs can be stored simultaneously on a single Satodime. The state function is how you can check if the vault has been redeem or not. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2)------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Satodime security features ----------------------------------------- - Satodime authenticity: The Satodime includes a cryptographic mechanism that allows to check whether the card is an authentic Satodime or a fake one. If the card is not authenticated, you should be extremely careful and avoid to store any valuable on it. The authentication mechanism is based on a unique digital certificate issued for each authentic Satodime and verified with a trusted Public Key Infrastructure. - Secure key generation: Private/public keypairs stored on the Satodime are always generated randomly inside the secure chip. As long as the keyslot is sealed, nobody has access to the private key. To prove that the private keys were not pre-generated during manufacturing and that no backdoor was inserted in the firmware, the user is prompted for a 64-hex random value during the sealing process. This random input is used to provide entropy during the key generation process. When the keyslot is unsealed and the private key is revealed, the entropy data (including user input) is provided and allows to ensure that the key generation process was indeed random. - Transfer of ownership protection: Satodime (and the SatodimeTool) supports communication through 2 interfaces: the NFC (Near Field Communication) wireless interface and the wired interface through a standard smartcard reader. It is important to note that the behavior of the Satodime is slightly different according to the interface used: the wired interface is considered 'trusted' while the NFC is not. In practice, this means that anyone can perform any operation via the wired (trusted) interface, while some sensitive operations can only be performed via the NFC interface by the legitimate owner. Sensitive operations include all operations that change the state of a keyslot (such as unsealing). This ensures that the current owner of a Satodime can confidently let a potential acquirer scan the card on his own device (e.g. to check the available balance) without the risk of unsealing and sweeping a private key. To distinguish the legitimate owner of the card from other users, a pairing process is initiated when the card is transfered to a new owner. To initiate this transfer, the former owner simply click on the 'Transfer card' button in the 'Card info' tab in the main menu. Immediatly after, the card should be disconnected and provided the new owner to initiate new pairing. A message is then shown to confirm that a new pairing has been successfully established with the new owner through the SatodimeTool. If the transfer of ownership has not been initiated by the previous owner, the new owner SHOULD perform this transfer as soon as possible. The procedure is the same, except that in this case, it MUST be done via the 'trusted' wired interface (since pairing is a sensitive operation and it can only be done via the NFC interface by the legitimate owner). You will be able to use any NFC ready smartphone to check the status of a vault, at anytime, anywhere. Mobile app is under development. It will be released Q1/2022. If you have any questions, just ask  |
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Do you know any other vendor with such product ?
I think that Sugi and Keycard are doing something similar with their NFC cards. (No idea how I can recognize if someone is using them as bearer card or like a regular wallet). Something similar like Ballet is Austrian product called Card Wallet. Regarding Tangem cards, I see on their website product called Tangem Note, that can be purchased for $19.90, and it fits your criteria much better than $45 Tangem wallet you posted in comparison table. They even offer some packs with multiple cards for better price. Do you have any other useful comparison criteria ?
Maybe you should add option for extra tools needed for crypto cards to work. For example, you need card reader or laptop that reads NFC, some devices need computer, other need mobile device connection with their app. Other thing for comparison is durability and material device is made from. Should we highlight the fact that Ballet's keys are pre-generated ? Which is an important buying information.
Yes I think you should add that. Regarding Tangem, it does support ETH addresses. How about ERC20 tokens ? Is is supported ? Or not ? No info on the FAQ regarding ERC20 support.
Tangem Notes only supports six major coins, but Tangem wallet mentions support for 600+ tokens and 13 blockchains, with access to '''defi''. - How to rename the "Coin supported" label ? It's not easy to understand but I find important to tell how many "wallet", how many "vault" you can create using a single device.
I think Coin Support is fine for now, and I don't have any better suggestion. As far as I know, Sugi should be consider as a hardware wallet. The seed is provided to the user even if it's generated by the supplier. (Which is really a non go or me but...) For KeyCard, it's kind of an hybrid solution. I had a card over here but didn't play a lot with it. A will dig dive into Keycard and see if it's worth to be added here. Let's add Card Wallet. I checked their website and it's dev a cold/bearer crypto card. I will also change the Tangem line to show up the "Note" version which is more alligned with what we are looking for. Thank you for the info. |
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- Do you know any other vendor with such product ?
I quickly went over the " [BIG LIST] Hardware wallets (80+)" and managed to find a few more hardware wallets with that form factor: Note: I prefer to not couch for any of the following hardware wallets.- Regarding Tangem, it does support ETH addresses. How about ERC20 tokens ? Is is supported ? Or not ? No info on the FAQ regarding ERC20 support.
It does support them, but only the "popular" ones: Thank you for your input. Well... I had a look at the big hardware wallet list. But here, I'm more speaking about bearer cold storage solutions... I my point of view, a hardware wallet is a security device that allows you to generate and derivate multiple addresses from a master key (the seed). Ballet is not a hardware wallet, you dont have your seed. It's more a cold storage solution with advanced features. Same for Opendime. I dont know all the product on that list but a lot are hardware wallet solutions... With a seed and keys derivated from the seed. Regarding Tangem, I will update the table and include the "Multi-currency" card. A bit more expensive than the classic one but it supports more currencies. |
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You can check the opendime sourcecode here: https://github.com/opendime/opendimeIMO separating them between things that have electronic hardware and things that don't. There are some advantages and disadvantages to both. But for long term storage, something like the ballet may be better since there are components to go bad so to speak. Posted about it the other day, but this could have gone worse for me: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5218987.msg56370760#msg56370760Same with any of the other devices that contain electronics that can be damaged. -Dave Hello Dave, Thank you for your input. Yeah, Opendime is open source, my bad. I knew it. Dont know why I put a red cross there. Separating the products can misslead the customer. He should have an overview of the market for a specific product, here the bearer cold storage solution. Ballet is by far the worst product in a security point of view. I really like the product: clean AF, beautiful, well made. The app is great. But the fact that keys are pre-generated is really a big concern for me. I'm updating the table. |
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First of all, I suggest you make the table more readable. On way is to add an top row containing transparent underscores, pretty much similar to https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4546532.msg40928133#msg40928133Then I'm surprised SatoDime is missing from your list. And as answer for one of your questions, I'd go with "No of coins supported", or "Coins supported", or something similar. It's longer, but you can use 2 rows for the title. Well Satodime is missing, of course. Thank you for the table layout tips. Will update it rn. |
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Hello, I would like to make a comparison table between several "bearer crypto card" available on the market. Here is the manufacturer list: - Opendime (with this product) - Ballet (with this product) - Tangem (with this product) - Card Wallet (with this product) - Satodime (with this product) Point of comparison: - Price (how much it costs) - Connectivity (how can we use it) - Secure element (does it have a secure element to safely store the private key) - Open Source - Supported tokens (what kind and type of tokens are supported) - Coin support (how many coin can be stored at once) - Work with (what do you need in order to make it run) - Reusable (do we have to physically break it to recover the private key) -=------- Comparison table ------=-| ________________ | __________________________ | __________________________ | __________________________ | __________________________ | __________________________ | | Features | Ballet | Tangem | Opendime | Card Wallet | Satodime | | ________________ | __________________________ | __________________________ | __________________________ | __________________________ | __________________________ | | Price | 35$ | 20$ | 50$ (*) | 40€ | 25€ | | Connectivity | X | NFC | USB | X | NFC + USB | | Secure Element | X | V (secure chip) | X | X | V (secure chip) | | Open Source | X | X | V | X | V | | Supported tokens | | | 1 (BTC only) | 2 | | | Coin supported | 1 per device | 1 per device | 1 per device | 1 per device | 3 per device | | Work with | Mobile app only (iOS/Android) | Mobile app only (iOS/Android) | Computer only | Paper wallet | Computer only (require a chip card or NFC reader) | | Reusable | X | V | X | X | V |
(*) Opendime is sold as a 3-units bundle pack at 50$. Price per unit is 16.66$ but cannot be purchased separatly. -=------- Questions ------=-- Do you know any other vendor with such product ? - Do you have any other useful comparison criteria ? - Should we highlight the fact that Ballet's keys are pre-generated ? Which is an important buying information. - Regarding Tangem, it does support ETH addresses. How about ERC20 tokens ? Is is supported ? Or not ? No info on the FAQ regarding ERC20 support. - How to rename the "Coin supported" label ? It's not easy to understand but I find important to tell how many "wallet", how many "vault" you can create using a single device. -... Thank you. |
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I'm not spitting on Opendime. I really love the product and CoinKite is an example for us. Opendime is and will remain the OG in this cryptospace.
And please note that I'm not spitting on you or the Satodime; I think it's great that you're trying to improve upon an already excellent idea. And now that I've actually checked the price in USD, I think it's reasonable--definitely not as cheap as a three-pack of Opendimes, but not outrageous by any means. I'm not in need of another hardware wallet, but this interests me as a collectible. I'm going to keep your website bookmarked, and perhaps when I get some dough I might consider buying a Satochip/Satodime. They are really cool-looking. Yeah don't worry. I really enjoy the discussion. It help us to go in the right direction. Regarding the "collectible" part of the product, that's indeed a great usecase. You can, for example, print a #NFT on a Satodime card, seal and load the NFT on it and then share it with ease. A way to connect the real world and the digital world together. |
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It's interesting that even Yubikey is working with satochip code, so anyone who owns one of those devices can turn it into hardware wallet. Maybe you should create some comparison image with Satodime, Opendime, Tangem Banknote and any other crypto banknote projects (price, coins support, plus/minus...). Yubikey used to be compatible. A long time ago, they released "open" Yubikey where you can load your own app. Now it's no more doable. But if you manage to find old Yubikeys, yes, we are compatible. Back in 2015, when we where working on the Satochip dev, we started with a Yubikey : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADWikh8Fxdk |
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With Satodime, you can safely re-use your card by resetting an unsealed vault.
That means that I can send Satodime gift loaded with Bitcoin to someone, and he can than reset the card, load it with different amount of coins and give it to someone else? -> Yes. You can buy a Satodime, seal a Bitcoin vault, grab the public key and adress, send some sats. Send the card to your friend. Then he can unseal, recover the private key, wipe the fund. Reset the Bitcoin vault and do it again. For example, send it back to you with a NFT loaded to thank you  By the way, Satodime is also open source, meaning you can just buy a blank compatible javacard and create your own Satodime - be your own bank.
That is interesting idea for making new DIY project, if procedure for loading your code on blank card is simple enough. Can you please tell us what Java cards models are compatible with Satodime and Satochip? Please have a look over here in the "Tested and Working" part : https://github.com/Toporin/SatoChipAppletThere are probably some other model... To test. |
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The OpenDime is $50 for a 3 pack so it is cheaper. It's advantage is it just needs USB, no app no special hardware.
Yeah, there's definitely a price advantage with the Opendime, and I don't see the need to "break open" the device as a major disadvantage necessarily (though it certainly would be better if you didn't have to). I'm also curious as to why dkbit98 doesn't like Opendimes; I think they're kind of neat, although now I realize they're not so great for long-term storage. I do like the idea of things like this, but still see it as a limited market. I will probably get one, I have gotten just about every other thing like this over time to play with.
It's times like these when I see neat crypto-related tech that I wish I had more money to blow, because I might be interested in one of these if only as a collectible. I also think the concept of a crypto banknote is a good one, but I agree with dkbit98 that the cost of the banknote itself ought to be less. At the same time I do realize that when such banknotes are as fancy as the one OP is selling, they're not going to be dirt cheap. The biggest disadvantage I see is that while we think some of this tech will be around forever, I can see a future where all USB ports on PCs are USB C and the NFC standards on phones have changed and someone trying to cash one out has to jump through a lot hoops to do it.
That's why one of these would be a great collectible. I'd love to own some of the old computers and storage drives I used to have, simply for the nostalgia and history behind them. Since I already have all the hardware wallets I'll ever need, I wouldn't use a Satodime to store any coins on. And since OP brought up the Tangem (which I'd never heard of), does anyone know if they're legit? I'm not trying to go off-topic, but on Amazon, I see this and scratch my head:  Just a word about the price. Opendime is cheaper "per unit". But you can buy a single unit on the website. And because you have to break it to recover the private key, that's why CoinKite is selling per bundle. So at the end, you just pay 25€ (+- 28$) for a reusable, NFC and USB ready, multi-currency supported Satodime. VERSUS 50$ for 3 Bitcoin only non reusable USB only Opendime stick. I'm not spitting on Opendime. I really love the product and CoinKite is an example for us. Opendime is and will remain the OG in this cryptospace. We build Satodime with the same phylosophy. |
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The biggest disadvantage I see is that while we think some of this tech will be around forever, I can see a future where all USB ports on PCs are USB C and the NFC standards on phones have changed and someone trying to cash one out has to jump through a lot hoops to do it.
-Dave
Yeah... But honestly, chip card tech is here since many years (about 40 years I guess) and will be there for a very long time. Maybe longer than the NFC tech. But that's a good concern. People shoud carefuly check the hardware used in such devices and prefer open source solution that might be easier to move on another tech. |
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Satochip is proud to release its new product: Satodime.
The bearer chip card that allows you to exchange crypto assets like any banknote. Safely pass it along multiple times thanks the secure chip, unseal anytime with ease. Trustless, easy to verify and completly secure.
I see that price for Satodime is the same as for regular Satochip card, and I am not a fan of Opendime by Coinkite but I believe they are cheaper to purchase. Bitcoin Crypto Banknotes are a good idea, especially in the time when they announce removal of cash money, but banknotes should be dirt chip to buy in my opinion, they should even be easy to make as DIY project. One question for Satodime, what secure element are you using for this Satodime card, same chip NXP J3H145 and J3R110 like for Satochip, or something else? Hello, Yeah, I def recon on you regarding the price. Satochip HQ fights everyday to be able to offer affordable security solutions. Regarding Opendime, you have to break it to recover the private key. Meaning you "lost" your device after each use. With Satodime, you can safely re-use your card by resetting an unsealed vault. Yes, we do use the same chip as our hardware wallet Satochip. By the way, Satodime is also open source, meaning you can just buy a blank compatible javacard and create your own Satodime - be your own bank. |
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Main Satochip topic : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5181719.0This message was edited on the 20-nov-2023 with new visuals and description.----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- SatodimeYour crypto bearer crypto card-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------  PreambuleSatochip is proud to release its new product: Satodime. The bearer chip card that allows you to exchange crypto assets like any banknote. Safely pass it along multiple times thanks the secure chip, unseal anytime with ease. Trustless, easy to verify and completly secure. NewsSatodime is like: - Opendime, but you don't need to break the device to get access to the private key. - Opendime, but it supports more than just #Bitcoin. - Tangem, but you can seal several cryptocurrencies at once. - Ballet, but keys are not pre-generated. Satodime: - is affordable; - is NFC ready; - can support Bitcoin, Litecoin, Bitcoin Cash, Ethereum and all the ERC-20 and ERC-721 tokens; - can contain up to 3 secure vaults, meaning you can safely store 3 wallets. - is trustless, open-source; - and customizable.  ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ How-toSatodime is really easy to use. 1) Download the Satodime-Tool: On the Google Play Store: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.satochip.satodimeappOn the Apple Store: https://apps.apple.com/be/app/satodime/id1672273462On desktop: https://github.com/Toporin/Satodime-Tool/releases/tag/v0.2.12) Connect your card to your laptop using a chip card reader or with NFC to your mobile phone. Your Satodime contains 3 secure vaults that are, by default, non initialized.3) To seal a vault, select the cryptocurrency you want to load. Choose your own entropy and seal it. 4) Now you can see the public information of your vault. Private informations are sealed and safely stored within the secure chip.5) Unseal anytime to recover the private key of your vault.  --------------------------------==- Usecases ==--------------------------------- Numerous usecases: - if you want to store your fav #NFT on a Satodime -> you can print your NFT on the card and bring your Punk to life. - when you want to make the best gift for the birthday of your crypto friends, buy a Satodime, seal it, load some sats and gift it. - when you want to physically exchange cryptocurrencies or other tokens. - when you want to exchange e-gold, Real World Assets, NFTs, Certificate of Authenticity... - when you want to exchange cryptocurrencies off-chain. - ... (use your brain to see to big potential of this product )------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ You can grab your Satodime now at https://satochip.io/product/satodime------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ContactTelegram: https://t.me/SatochipTwitter: https://twitter.com/satochipWebsite: https://satochip.ioGitHub: https://github.com/ToporinYoutube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPmmfB5PpuwMtha9mbaRNlg |
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---== Satochip customization plugin ==---Now available on our webshop---------------------------------== Preambule ==--------------------------------- To be able to secure your private keys in a secure element is really important: not your keys, not your coins.Beeing able to do so in an affordable way is great.Doing it with style is a must.
--------------------------------==- News ==--------------------------------- Satochip is proud to be the first customizable hardware wallet in the world! You can print your very own design on your Satochip hardware wallet. Numerous use cases: - if you want to store your fav #NFT on a hardware wallet -> you can print your NFT on your Satochip card and bring to life your Punk. - when you want to make the best gift for the birthday of your crypto friends. - when you want to disguise your hardware wallet to activate the incognito mode. - ...   ---------------------------------== You want to test it? ==--------------------------------- You can now create your own Satochip hardware wallet. Go to https://satochip.io/shop, select the "Customization" Satochip card and upload your own design. You can check our video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ClTwV-adKcYou can now safely store your #BNB, #BEP20 #AVAX, #POLYGON, #MATIC, #CAKE, #SAFEMOON, #BAKE, #ETH, #ERC20 and many more... WITH STYLE!---------------------------------== Useful links ==--------------------------------- 🐤 Follow us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/SatochipWallet🛫 Join us on Telegram: https://t.me/Satochip🌐 Website: https://satochip.io🔥 Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPmmfB5PpuwMtha9mbaRNlg |
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Bumpy  Thanks buddy |
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Hey,
First of all, I would like to thank you for this great topic. It's really important to have such an overview while considering a hardware wallet.
May I ask you to add our product ?
It's called Satochip, based on a smart card, this hardware wallet is open source and build on the NXP JCOP interface.
Sure you can, Satochip is now added to the list in first page. I don't have plan to list every single hardware wallet that exist in the world, so it is possible that some of them are still missing. Thank you for the quick shot |
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