Hi all, xnova has thrown up a technical support thread on the official forum for those who are having problems with the counterpartyd build system: https://forums.counterparty.co/index.php/topic,13.0. I think the organization the new forum provides will really help the devs more effectively deal with bugs. |
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Official Counterparty Forums are
live! We understand the transition to the official forum will not be immediate, and we will do our best to assure that it is as smooth as possible. Having said that, we believe that the Counterparty community has already become too large to stay well organized on the main bitcointalk thread, and having multiple threads on bitcointalk inevitably fragments the community. We hope that having a dedicated forum will give us the space needed for the project and community to grow while also keeping the community cohesive. Many thanks to the community for all of its support and involvement throughout the burn period. -The Counterparty Team |
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Important: Those of you who issued broadcasts for the Superbowl, some of your text may have been cut off (check the window in which is running). It is recommended that you publish your broadcast again and make sure the text is not cut off. As I am sure you all already know, there is aboslutely no harm in publishing edited text for the same feed. There is no reason to be concerned.
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Do you have a particular way in mind for users to validate that the asset issuer is legitimate?
I was thinking about this and I couldn't figure out any trustless way to accomplish this. The issuer's reputation on and/or off the platform will be a factor. The plus side of someone with a reputation issuing an asset like this is that it will do its bit to increase adoption of the platform among actual users as opposed to hoarders and speculators. Any type of co-operative venture both virtual and physical can easily be managed and distributed if a targeted GUI software is built for it. The devs and I have thought about the problem a lot, and we too see no way to absolutely mollify the trust issue; ultimately, it comes down to reputation. The 'solution' then is to create on/off platform environments that make a reputation-based system as effective as possible. The Counterparty Team has thought of a way that it believes is a significant step towards this, and will be announcing it soon. Stay tuned. |
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Hello XCP peoples!
I am James, active member of the NXT community and I really like what you are doing. Burned some BTC so I am also one of the XCP peoples.
I believe there is room in the growing crypto world for many different solutions to succeed. Of course, XCP must dominate mastercoin!
I just wanted to reach out and maybe there are ways we can help each other. NXT is already on many exchanges and has close to 20,000 accounts. Maybe it makes sense for XCP to be listed in NXT Asset Exchange? This would create a market for XCP and avoid all the fiat hassles as there is also a path from NXT -> ripple -> fiat.
I am busy managing the NXTcommunityfund, which just received over 2 million NXT so I personally don't have the time, but I am sure I can find somebody over in NXT community who would love to help or become an XCP gateway into the NXT Asset Exchange.
Still getting up to speed with XCP, so not sure if it is possible to get NXT listed within counterparty. If it is possible, I am interested in seeing how that can be done, etc.
James
James, Thank you for your interest in Counterparty! Getting NXT listed within Counterparty would be a bit tricky. Even if someone created asset REALNXT in Counterparty and sold them, he would have to 'back' REALNXT with NXT, and make a sort-of IOU out of it, such that REALNXT can be redeemed for NXT. The mechanism by which the latter happens will have to be determined by the issuer of REALNXT, of course, though I do have some ideas as to how this could be done. It would be great if XCP could be sold on NXT Asset Exchange, though I do not know whether this is possible. If you are interested in further discussing things further, please PM me or have someone from the NXT community PM me. |
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Regarding Counterparty's development, we've come up with what we think are good guidelines specifying the limited role of the core Counterparty team vs. that of the Counterparty community at large. We'd love for members of the community to review and comment on this as we see this statement, once approved by our team and the majority of the community, as serving as the guiding principles of the Counterparty project as a whole. Counterparty Project PrinciplesMembers of the community have burned or otherwise invested their funds into the success of the project. The core development team will produce and maintain the reference client(s), official website and protocol specification. The community will self-organize and produce products, services, and businesses around these tools, as well as their own. As a member of the community, you are encouraged to: - Freely create useful applications around Counterparty technology and be compensated accordingly as people use your product or service.
- Be proactive and take initiative around the Counterparty protocol and in the community which will collectively be evidenced by a rising XCP value.
- Promote innovation by cooperating, sharing and collaborating with other community members.
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Third is debatable but I would condone the creation of a counterparty foundation with elected boardmembers/developers.
This foundation could act as a crowdfunding platform where features are proposed and voted on and bounties collected for them.
We sometimes forget that not all centralization is bad. We like to go to the grocery store to buy what we need because it would be a pain in the ass to drive to one store to buy bread and another store to buy apples, and another for tuna.
I think a community based approach is great, but also that a strong foundation could help shape and promote innovation and progress.
Counterparty is an open-source protocol with no outside funding, as such a 'Counterparty Foundation' would be an artificial and ultimately meaningless construction. It goes without saying, however, that if members of the community would like to crowdfund or would like to propose bounties for which to crowd fund to the Counterparty Team, they are encouraged to do so! Counterparty is and will be a community-driven project. This is not a criticism of centralization in-itself, it is just to point out that centralization (in the form of a foundation) within Counterparty is untenable given the nature of the project. Don't you already have a foundation in a loose sense of the word? Even your profile says "Counterparty team member". So there is a team. You created a team that works together toward a common goal. Your website is setup in a way that it certainly seems like there is already a counterparty foundation. In this case the distinction between having a foundation 'in the loose sense of the word' and having a full-fledged foundation is not trivial. Once there is a 'Counterparty Foundation' there is a barrier to people 'working on Counterparty' or 'working with Counterparty' that is not there as long as the structure is indeed 'loose', and Counterparty is in too early a stage of development to be slowed down by formalities that have not *proven* themselves to be necessary. |
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Third is debatable but I would condone the creation of a counterparty foundation with elected boardmembers/developers.
This foundation could act as a crowdfunding platform where features are proposed and voted on and bounties collected for them.
We sometimes forget that not all centralization is bad. We like to go to the grocery store to buy what we need because it would be a pain in the ass to drive to one store to buy bread and another store to buy apples, and another for tuna.
I think a community based approach is great, but also that a strong foundation could help shape and promote innovation and progress.
Counterparty is an open-source protocol with no outside funding, as such a 'Counterparty Foundation' would be an artificial and ultimately meaningless construction. It goes without saying, however, that if members of the community would like to crowdfund or would like to propose bounties for which to crowd fund to the Counterparty Team, they are encouraged to do so! Counterparty is and will be a community-driven project. This is not a criticism of centralization in-itself, it is just to point out that centralization (in the form of a foundation) within Counterparty is untenable given the nature of the project. |
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I think i read somewhere that price is 0.01BTC/XPC.
That was a 3rd party seller, which is selling XCP at that price. But mainly, how are we going to increase the demand in this coin? I have alot of marketing skills behind my belt, I can help. Patel if you have some particular suggestions, please PM me. |
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I joined and decided to mine alt-coins in Dec 2013 by which time it was too late for me to use my modest rigs for BTC. Now I simply alt-mine and convert it to BTC.
Before I set up my rig I researched my best options and I found that people were community mining BTC by pooling their monies and buying shares of ASIC rigs that produced terra hashes.
I think for something as simple as this
1. Asset can be created in Counter Party
2. No of shares issued with a set price in XCP
3. Dividend paid out once the rig is set up by the asset creator.
4. Shares of the asset can be transferred at market rate (potentially higher than original sale) without involving the guy running the rig.
Yes, I think this is an excellent example. It should be noted, however, that the 'order' function is completely general, and so whoever is selling asset shares can ask for any other asset in exchange. Do you have a particular way in mind for users to validate that the asset issuer is legitimate? |
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Can somebody explains more about the features that we see here: http://counterparty.co/about/I am an engineer but a newbie in cryptocurrency and related concepts. I think the first step for Counterparty adoption is to explain the features and benefits in simple way that anyone understands. The wiki will have a page on use-cases which should often be updated, as we expect to discover uses beyond those we've already we've already thought of. For now, is there some specific question you had regarding what is on the our 'About' page? |
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Counterparty peeps.
I heard about Counterparty on Coindesk. I am looking to understand what are the big needs for this protocol as it is launched.
I am interested in helping to organize community and devteam bounties so that once the burn period ends, there will be ways to get more participation to building solutions for this awesome idea. Are there community members currently already helping organize bounties for various new or high-demand features?
I'm new so please go easy on me, but I definitely want to be helpful. Yes, I have burn some moneys already
Awesome, we really appreciate the initiative. becherovka is starting to organize things at the bounty level starting shortly here. Perhaps you and he could work together on this. I'll let him either comment on this thread, or you guys can get in touch via PM. We also just put up a wiki on the counterparty.co site (I have to finish setting up the permissions for it). If there are any community members that want to help make content for the wiki, feel free to contact cityglut (solid writing skills would be a must here, obviously). I might make a suggestion: Counterparty (and similar projects) offer entirely new functionality to the Bitcoin system. As is evident from the cryptocurrency hearings in New York this week it is apparent that regulators and other financial types have had their minds blown by the basic functionality of Bitcoin, let alone the more advanced features. They didn't even know how to react to the Colored Coins concept when Charles Lee of Litecoin brought it up. I can only imagine how they would have reacted if someone mentioned the concept of a decentralised exchange to them. On that note, I feel that the world needs to see examples of what Counterparty can do. Think of it as a technological showcase of case studies. Each one consisting of taking ideas from conception to execution. Case study 1: Mike wants to set up a new business but has no money. Instead of going to a bank for a loan he decides to utilise Bitcoin/Counterparty for everything from crowd-funding to share issuance and dividend allocation etc. No middlemen! Case study 2: Jennifer wants to sell her home. Instead of going down the traditional avenues she decides to utilise Bitcoin/Counterparty for everything from payment to referencing her house deeds (Colored Coins/notary) etc. No middlemen! Etc, etc. This Dropbox video is a great example of what I am talking about - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFb0NaeRmdgUltimately, if people realise what you can actually do with Counterparty, they will use it. This is a great suggestion. I will be adding use-cases to the wiki. For the sake of organization, I recommend that use-cases regarding assets and dividends be discussed at the thread I created for that purpose: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=424439.0 |
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Awesome, we really appreciate the initiative. becherovka is starting to organize things at the bounty level starting shortly here. Perhaps you and he could work together on this. I'll let him either comment on this thread, or you guys can get in touch via PM.
We also just put up a wiki on the counterparty.co site (I have to finish setting up the permissions for it). If there are any community members that want to help make content for the wiki, feel free to contact cityglut (solid writing skills would be a must here, obviously).
Will the bounties be something that the community might be able to vote on for priorities? I've got a few things on my wish list  If you have any recommendations for bounties, please feel free to PM me. We are very open to suggestions. Speaking on behalf of myself and not the Counterparty team, I think that community voting as to the prioritization of bounties becomes a bit complicated and may ultimately lead to an - ironically - slower issuance of bounties. In my opinion, community members should make recommendations to the Counterparty Team for which bounties to issue, and, then, if the Counterparty Team agrees with the recommendation, it should post a donation address and the length of the bounty-period. If a community member proposes a bounty to the Counterparty Team, which, for whatever reason, the Counterparty Team doesn't feel is a priority, he should feel free to issue his own bounties, but this bounty will be independent of those issued by the Counterparty team. |
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The BTC will be used to buy the shares on the distributed exchange with the order command (in the CLI), and the dividends will (usually) be paid in XCP with the dividend function.
If you don't want to pay dividends, but rather only make good on something like an IOU, then there's no reason that you should do that in XCP over any other asset.
So the only inconvenience, is that investors will have to convert XCP back to BTC (if they want so)? Is there any way planned to pay dividends in BTC, or this will need to be handled separately? Yes, but 'convert XCP back to BTC' means to sell XCP on the distributed exchange using the 'order' function. If one wanted to pay dividends in BTC, one would need to send BTC to whichever addresses own the asset on which one was paying dividends. The FAQ on counterparty.co has an - albeit brief - explanation as to why XCP must be used for bets, betting fees and dividends. |
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mtbitcoin, Thanks for all of your hard work; blockscan.com is a great resource. This is on behalf of the Counterparty Team : python3 counterpartyd.py send --from=1GriQ4FcAve4nd3zu5jbK4budArtnwQRQu --to=1bLockjTFXuSENM8fGdfNUaWqiM4GPe7V --quantity=1000 --asset=XCP
Confirm? (y/N) y
"07d8934d8798c1929dd6657fdb2ac0682ef01c85a8a99d2b8b2d13dddda4658c"
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How does XCP improve on Bitshares (Mastercoin to a lesser degree)? As those are similar concepts. What advantages does XCP have? What are core differences?
Main feature is XCP has features working right now, and everyone else is mostly just talk. I will acknowledge when they release features, but so far MSC only has simple send in 6 months, whereas XCP has its core already developed in less than 1. XCP will also have a client released soon. Does Counterparty use price feeds or is price discovery solely marked based (like with Bitshares)? Any info on that? Counterparty uses feeds. I don't see how market-based price discovery isn't susceptible to clandestine manipulation (but I don't know how Bitshares does it). As long as it works (everyone follows the underlying asset price) you would harm yourself long term manipulating the price because it is too costly... But if a whale or several large holders do not follow the underlying asset price, then it is not too costly to manipulate the price. Without commenting on Bitshares in particular (as I do not know the details of their implementation), it seems that the currency in which market-based price discovery is made needs to be sufficiently evenly-distributed before manipulation is disadvantageous. |
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How does XCP improve on Bitshares (Mastercoin to a lesser degree)? As those are similar concepts. What advantages does XCP have? What are core differences?
Main feature is XCP has features working right now, and everyone else is mostly just talk. I will acknowledge when they release features, but so far MSC only has simple send in 6 months, whereas XCP has its core already developed in less than 1. XCP will also have a client released soon. Does Counterparty use price feeds or is price discovery solely marked based (like with Bitshares)? The 'broadcast' function is used to publish price feeds. |
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Announcement: The Counterparty team will be paying out a bounty on February 14th, at 00:00 UTC (three weeks from today, midnight on Saint Valentine's Day) for work on a desktop GUI Counterparty client built on top of counterpartyd. The size of the bounty will be the balance of our donation address, 12J1YFvsWHDCU5HNAWNLNy1Q9nZo8Q4Xgs (both BTC and XCP), at the time that the bounty is closed, and the winner(s) will be chosen, thereupon, by a consensus of PhantomPhreak, xnova and myself. N.B. We prefer, but will not require, that clients be cross-platform. Also, xnova is hard at work on a Counterparty web client, which should be available for preview in the next couple of weeks. More bounties will be offered in the near future. This announcement was cross-posted from https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=430998, where formal submissions should be made. That's great news. Perhaps a little bit more information in the bounty thread. For example, a link back to this official thread and some information about Counterparty to get some people thinking. Of course, sorry about that. Thanks very much for the suggestion. |
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It is important to make a strict distinction between the developers of Counterparty, and the Counterparty protocol itself. Burning BTC is only secondarily a demonstration of trust in the developers, it is primarily a demonstration of confidence in the protocol, whereas, by sending BTC and XCP to the Counterparty donation address, the community is trusting the Counterparty team to deal honestly and competently with funds meant for bounties. Faith in the protocol does not necessarily imply faith in the developers, and it is unreasonable to force those who want to invest in the former to donate to the latter. In the long run the protocol and the current developers aren't tied together.
In our view, the short term benefits gained by more donations are outweighed by the medium- to long-term benefits of sticking with proof-of-burn. Counterparty's long-term success depends on it being maximally trustless and decentralized throughout the entire initialization-of-balances period.
The value of the Bitcoins burned is the price paid for a fair launch.
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