Only one developer on website. No roadmap, no whitepaper! How to invest?
I really had no clue someone made a topic here on bct about this project, just noticed it. This is not an official topic. But to answer your questions: PDC coins are traded on OMNI just like MAID (I own both of them) There's a lot of info on the safenetforum as this is a project build to be on top of The SAFE Network (by MaidSafe). Here's the publication of the idea: https://safenetforum.org/t/project-decorum-decentralised-forum-and-protocol/6119There was a proof of concept on a SAFE testnet (not active now, but you can see some screenshots): https://safenetforum.org/t/project-decorum-live-proof-of-concept/8475It showed us that the idea is feasible and that you can run a forum on a decentralized network. Although a forum is actually just 1 option with this protocol: The protocol can be used to create conversations in any form, such as a comment section on a blog, a discussion forum, or simply one-on-one conversations (though SAFE's native messaging may be more suitable for that). Because the protocol is decentralised, participants don't have to give up ownership of their messages and can use any of their SAFE identities. This way conversations can be as censorship resistant and as strongly anonymous as the SAFE Network itself! Here's the old (2016) crowdfund topic: https://safenetforum.org/t/project-decorum-crowdsale/8474Seneca also gave a presentation in Amsterdam at a SAFE Meetup, here's the link and some more explanation: https://safenetforum.org/t/how-transactions-could-take-place-using-decorum/13061If you follow the Maidsafe topic here on bct you might be familiar with the fact that we're all waiting for the next test_network to arrive. This one will bring us Mutable Data which is data that can be changed afterwards. So think of it as owning address: "VGhjgfHJuiILGHLghjughjughJGHJG" on The SAFE Network and storing a reply to a blog in it. If you spot a typo you can simply updated your reply and fix it. That same technique is what Decorum is waiting for (Mutable Data API). Seneca isn't about hyping/posting that much. He's just working on his idea. Here's his last reply in the Decorum topic: https://safenetforum.org/t/project-decorum-crowdsale/8474/1026 |
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So all these Alpha tests are only with the client side front end? When will the public get to test the meat of the protocol and run their own nodes and 'farm' for coins in a testnet?
Shouldn't the devs be doing this the other way around and concentrate on the server side instead of the client side? It's really hard to take all the client side tests seriously if the server side isn't going well.
Alpha 2 was supposed to run with Vaults from home, we've already had several testnets testing these. Then a hacker decided to attack the network which is very easy as storing is free and several safety features aren't implemented yet. So we saw client spamming and a bizar amount of accounts created. That's why they decided to do it the other way around. Instead of focus on Vaults from home for Alpha 2 they made it about Mutable Data and the APIs for devs. Half of the team is already focused on Alpha 3 implementing spam attacks, secure joining and more. This from the update: To prevent client spamming the network, we have introduced a concept of rate-limiter2. We start with defining what is the total bandwidth that can be handled non-disruptively by the network on behalf of the clients (bandwidth usage due to churn/data-relocation etc. are over and above this). These numbers will likely be tweaked based on test results and actual network capability. Then we divide that by the total number of potential proxies we plan the testnet for, thus getting the maximum throughput allowed for clients per proxy. Then, depending on the total number of connected clients, we distribute this bandwidth evenly among them for fair usage policy. So you're right, the Vault part is important as well, but that's being worked on for weeks as now. But don't underestimate the APIs and Mutable Data. And next to that the SAFE Browser and Authenticator. Alpha 2 is gonna be quite a big release if you compare it to Alpha 1. This one should also kickstart the ecosystem with web apps. External devs have waited a long time for this stuff to finally come around. |
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 https://safenetforum.org/t/maidsafe-dev-update-june-22-2017/14425TL;DR They've had hoped to release the public testnetwork this week but you know; bugs  Another dev hired (the guy that built the SAFE Browser). The SAFE Network San Francisco meetup on July 11. All code for the Mutable Data is now in the master branch on GitHub. Enjoy!@! |
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I'M new here, i would like to know whats your prediction for this coin in terms of value potential? and is it worth it to invest now?
thanks!
I'm a long-term-holder of MAID and several related projects like PDC and SAFE FS. I have no idea what the price will bring us, I would be surprised though if we would stay at a 223 million marketcap. I could speculate but it would be just speculation . MaidSafe is quite unique as they don't use a blockchain for their project. |
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hi guys. Just 10% of SAFE Coins to the MaidSafeCoin holders is not unfair? I mean, if the marketcap of SAFECOIN not reach 10x the MaidSafeCoin marketcap on the launch all the holders will loose money? thanks
was that a product of how they did the 2nd round product capital raise when they burnt through the initial cash? At launch maidsafe coin holders will have 100% of the safe coin supply, it is only 10% of the final supply though. But this is supposed to take many years to reach so what he is saying isn't an issue. was this how it was sold in the ICO from the beginning I cant be bothered checking. Yes, the MAID serves as a proxycoin for the real Safecoin. So when you can exchange 1 MAID for 1 Safecoin, the MAID Holders become the first Safecoin holders and around 10% of all coins (4.3 billion total) will be out in the open. But when Safecoin goes live, Farming will start at the same time. So new coins will be created from that moment on. And when people use Safecoin (to store data etc.) they actually "burn" the coins so the address become free to be Farmed again in the future (if ever). So when Safecoin and Farming go live coins are created burned and used all at the same time. You could even get coins without buying them. Just run a Vault for some time and you might earn enough to get your own domain and upload your website en store some data. |
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isnt this coin supposed to be super secure?
Yes, the whole network is supposed to be secure so: - Register a domain without anyone knowing you did so... but still you are the owner - Upload private data without anyone knowing you did that, how much... - Transfer Safecoin from A to B without anyone knowing you did or how much while no one knows your balance - Browse safe://websites without anyone knowing what/when and stuff like that Thanks to Zeeman in particular for the regular and detailed updates and replies. I think we all appreciate it immensely  Meanwhile, I have a few queries that have been rattling around my head in relation to MaidSafe for quite a while. Let me run them past you all, if I may (sorry it's a bit of a mix!): The Safe Network will, of course, be awesome. I love the whole concept. And I love that I can be involved in supplying some of the space in the new network. 1). However, there is one thing that worries me quite a bit ... if it's totally secure, anonymous, untraceable etc., how can the network keep it from being abused, e.g. by terrorists? You'll know who I have in mind there. It would be a terrible misuse of such an amazing tool if it's hijacked with, for example, 'how to' websites for all manner of destructive topics/sites, or even nasty paedo type stuff. How do we keep that stuff out if we can't 'see' who published or communicated it? 2). Meanwhile, if I understand it right, a SAFE coin may well be more of a [disc] 'storage' unit/value rather than a 'financial' value like other crypto coins. Let's say I have 4000 SAFE coins, but I don't need that amount of storage. Rookie question I suspect ... I can just 'sell' those coins? I'm confused because I read that it's not coins ... it's space. Maybe that doesn't matter and it's as easily traded. But the whole 'burn and recycle' thing (if I understand it right) is confusing me a little. I think I get it but I'm just double-checking here! 3). I know originally that SAFE coins were not going to be divisible. Given how much crypto coins/tokens have taken off even in only the last quarter, is that decision still up for debate? My thinking is that if a MAID coin is eventually swappable 1:1 for a SAFE coin once available, if the price of a SAFE coin by then is, say, $500 (wouldn't that be nice!), wouldn't smaller potential fractions, like Satoshis are to Bitcoin, be wise? Or have I missed some other conversation that's already covered that? Thanks in advance for any insight on any of the above. Thanks for all the questions (including from @Anduril_FotW) they've come up on the forum as well. 1.) Nobody can stop someone from posting terror videos or other illegal stuff. Maybe we'll see Vaults that decide not to route certain data, but the idea is that even the Vaults have no clue what they store. Silkroad was online on TOR for quite some time, but the owner of the website got caught anyway. So even on encrypted networks people make mistakes. And forums/chats/reddit/youtubes on SAFE could use moderators if they want. I guess most will do that. You can make a website where people are allowed to post videos, but when you have "admin rights" to that website (if you activate that) you can moderate whatever you want in your domain. MaidSafe already created black/white user_lists in 2016 to sort of test this idea. So let's say that 20 volunteers create SAFE-Tube, they could still remove videos when illegal stuff is uploaded. others could make a censorship free version of SAFE tube but it will probably get filled with spam. 2.) Safecoin is a coin that you can use to pay. You can also buy storage with it, so your client says to the group of nodes: I have some safecoin here and would like to use it for storage. they say; okay, burn the coin and we'll allow you to store x-GB of data. So it could be used for payments or storage. 3.) There are a lot of ideas to make Safecoin divisible. The forum is full of them  . So no worries, you can sent 0.00000000000023 to someone if needed when Safecoin goes live. https://safenetforum.org/t/safecoin-divisibility/4806 |
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Many thanks zeeman. I do not quite understand everything you wrote but big thanks anyway! I have a question: Is this https://nvo.io/ connected with MaidSafe? It's a system that runs on top of SAFE. MaidSafe has not officially supported them I think, they made some replies in their topic. https://safenetforum.org/t/nvo-decentralized-exchange-crowdsale/13608/1Look for replies from Nick Lambert and/or David Irvine. I don't follow all these things. |
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I was interested in this coins some times ago, I have even invested some cash but now I would like to find out more.
At the beginning I would like to ask what are the main advantages of Maid,
secondly for what crucial inventions we are waiting now, f.e what is "TEST 20" ?
SAFE uses a different system than a blockchain, not all nodes need to agree on a transaction. So if you own coin "00xEEGFGFEGFJUEGFE" and you move it to someone else, maybe 3 groups of nodes (100 Vaults) are involved. So the network can handle more transactions when more Vaults join the network. They're supposed to happen in a second or so allowing thousands of them (per second) all over the network. SAFE allows you to log in to a decentralized network. Just think about that; no servers involved and you still can reach your data whenever you want. SAFE brings us serverless websites, including "dynamic data" so chats, forums, mail. So instead of setting up a server on TOR people could use SAFE and never worry about the website being online, it will always be unless you remove it. SAFE let you pay once and store your data forever. Just make 1 account and register your public name. If you want to join a forum on the network, or 3 forums and a chatbox you can do it with 1-click for each. No need to "register" again, the network will use your public key which you can proof to be the owner off. And loads more, in TEST 20 the focus is on the Mutable Data API. This allows anyone to create/store/share websites with dynamic data. If that works well it will become Alpha 2. We'll also move to the use of just 1 browser. That's way more easy than the old system with a launcher and proxy_settings. A big part of the team is working on Alpha 3 already. That brings us "datachains". Sort of parallel chain system where events like Vault joining and merge/split are secured. |
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Hi Guys, could anyone point me on where to download the maidsafe app? I looked up here https://maidsafe.net/alpha.html but didn't find any download link. Thanks. There's no active testnet or live (alpha) version at the moment. We're waiting for TEST 20. Keep an eye on this topic as I will write an update when there's something released. |
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Still hopeful of this project. How many developers are working on this outside of Irvine's main paid team? Without the developers/developer incentive I have concerns. Would be great if more could be done to attract independent developers building more like is happening with Ethereum....
Not trying to knock it down but just reasonable concerns....
Totally it's around 20 people. Ik guess between 8 to 15 devs. Not all fulltime https://github.com/orgs/maidsafe/peopleThey're making graphs that show how a network builds up, have a look: https://cdn-business.discourse.org/uploads/safenetwork/original/2X/4/471f2b4d5b1a77fde602ec3775256a31d0d80bf8.svgWhat it shows is 1 vault that starts the network and new ones being added, if you scroll down you'll see how the group splits when they're at 28 members in 1 group. This means the Vaults reach consensus on the fact that they need to split, they also agree on which Vaults belong in which group. They also agree on which group is responsible for what data etc. quite some cool research being done at the moment. This is all R&D for Alpha 3 where we have Vault from home again. |
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What is the difference between Maid and SafeExchangeCoin (SAFEX)?
Safex was supposed to be an exchange to work on the SAFE network. The Safex dev decided to move Safex away from SAFE to use a blockchain after all. So the projects aren't related. Maidsafe never had a connection with that dev although he was part of the SAFE community. Here's the Safex website, they have their own forum: https://safex.io@techish MAID is currently on the OMNI protocol. Will change after the official launch of Safecoin. That's the moment you can change the current MAID (running on the blockchain) for the SAFE network (without blockchain). |
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hi guys. Just 10% of SAFE Coins to the MaidSafeCoin holders is not unfair? I mean, if the marketcap of SAFECOIN not reach 10x the MaidSafeCoin marketcap on the launch all the holders will loose money? thanks
I don't know if I get your question right, but in total 4.3 billion Safecoin will ever be created. This probably won't happen before the year 2100 if ever. MaidSafe the company sold 10% of that number in 2014 at the crowdfund. Due to a little glitch with the OMNI (back then called Mastercoin) system the creation of new coins was stopped a little too late. So around 453 million are in circulation right now. http://coinmarketcap.com/assets/maidsafecoin/#chartsWhen Safecoin goes live after testing you can change your MAID for the real Safecoin 1-on-1. If you want to store (PUT) data in the network you "burn" some Safecoin. The address of the coin gets free so it might be farmed again in the future (if ever). When someone "Farmes" Safecoin the nodes will pick a random address from the 4.3 billion. If that address is already owned, the Farming Attempt fails. If it's free it goes to the farmer. There's also Farming algo's. When more people try to farm, less coins are rewarded. When too less people farm, the reward goes up to attract more Farmers. So overall a lot of dynamics. The network doesn't care about the Safecoin price being 50 cents or 4 dollar. It will always balance out. Coins are created and burned all the time. Hope that helps. |
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isnt this coin supposed to be super secure?
Yes, the whole network is supposed to be secure so: - Register a domain without anyone knowing you did so... but still you are the owner - Upload private data without anyone knowing you did that, how much... - Transfer Safecoin from A to B without anyone knowing you did or how much while no one knows your balance - Browse safe://websites without anyone knowing what/when and stuff like that No wonder it takes some time . SAFE also fixes the scalability issues that blockchains have. So the network can handle thousands of transactions a second as not all nodes are involved in each transaction. Hopefully TEST 20 today but otherwise it's next week as David told us they're close. This will give everyone the opportunity to download the browser and test most of these features out. I will post the dev update when it's out today. |
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Can I already earn tokens giving hosting space?
If so, where can i find a tutorial?
No, not yet. We have to wait for Farming and Safecoin to be implemented. First focus is TEST 20. The SAFE Browser with Authenticater and Mutable Data support. In other words: A browser which connects you to the network so you can upload (and later change) data. We should also see the first coins (not Safecoin though) moving between users. Not to forget the APIs for external devs to finally start the ecosystem with Apps etc. If this all works well it becomes Alpha 2 as official release, but expect some bugs in TEST 20 before we get there. So maybe we'll see TEST 20b first, who knows. Currently half of the team is already working on Alpha 3. That one has support for datachains (part 1) and brings us Vaults from home again. In this case though, the whole process of a new Vaults joining the network is more secured in some sort of parallel hash table. After Alpha 3 they probably start on Farming and Safecoin implementation. But before that's officially released we're in 2018. Not a big deal IMO. MaidSafe really likes to test their stuff and from the moment Alpha 3 is live (with Vaults from home) we could scale to millions of nodes without a problem. There is work on several different coin/wallet implementation so the SAFE network will probably be the first project which has alt_coins before it has the official coin implemented . Here's a post by David Irvine, the inventor and CEO of MaidSafe: https://safenetforum.org/t/eli5-of-state-of-progress/14001/2 |
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They can't shut SAFE down once it's supported by nodes all over the world. Think of it like shutting down Bitcoin, how would you do that? Or how to shut down Freenet? Can't be done either. SAFE is based on open source software with its own browser. Ok, that's reassuring. But they could make running the software illegal right ? And they could hold the MAIDSAFE company or devs responsible for illegal activities performed by others on the SAFE network, just like they did with Ross Ulbricht from Silk Road. Does MAIDSAFE have any publications were they adress these possible regulatory issues ? Ross Ulbricht from Silk Road was running a bunch of servers on TOR so he was the owner of the website and running it. On SAFE there are no servers. Coming testnet will run droplets hired by MaidSafe but we already had community testnets owned by no one. Freenet is out for over 10 years and is not forbidden by anyone, nor do they keep the devs responsible for what's on that network. On SAFE you can register a domain like safe://bitcointalk without anyone knowing who's behind it. Even in the upcoming testnet MaidSafe has no clue who registered what username/domain and what files they uploaded. Even while they run the current network. So you can compare it with Z-cash. Nobody knows who owns what. In SAFE it's nobody knows who stores what. And nobody knows who surfs/downloads what. |
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They can't shut SAFE down once it's supported by nodes all over the world. Think of it like shutting down Bitcoin, how would you do that? Or how to shut down Freenet? Can't be done either. SAFE is based on open source software with its own browser. |
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LOL We might see it the other way around as well when Safecoin is implemented and domains can change ownership. Before that, there will be a hunt for all big domains I guess. |
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