But see, that's the rub, isn't it?

If you owe debt to the failing bank, like a mortgage, the failed bank can sell your debt on to a different bank.  But the money raised through that process will go to shareholders and bondholders first.  After the dust settles, there isn't enough money left to cover what is owed to savers due to how fractional reserve works.

If the bank owe you money because you are an unsecured creditor, that debt does not get sold on to another bank.  It's a one-way street.  If you owe the bank, your debt stands.  If the bank owe you, that debt can and will be voided.  Again, you are only covered up to the amount your government are willing to protect.  Anything above that amount is likely forfeit.  

You, like most of the general public, do not seem to grasp this reality.  This has happened before.  It will happen again.  But not in Bitcoin.  Because we are not a debt-based system.

Unsecured creditors are not the first in line to have their funds recovered when banks fail.  Savers often lose out.  This is why the FSCS exists.  Stop pretending that it's a magical world of make believe where bank balances are somehow left intact when the company that printed them from thin air becomes insolvent.



Bitcoin is a physical network, a protocol and a blockchain.  It is all the better for not being part of an antiquated and corrupt banking system where private companies have a licence to print money from nothing and only hold 1% of the funds as fractional reserve.  

We've built a better system which does not require placing trust in private companies who can become insolvent and wipe out any money you may have deposited.  Money which, once you deposit it, no longer belongs to you in the eyes of the law.  Anything you deposit becomes the property of the bank.  The balance you think you hold is nothing more than an IOU.

I don't know about whichever country you might happen to live in, but in the UK, there's something called the FSCS.  Financial Services Compensation Scheme.  It means an agency set up by the government "protect" your wealth up to a certain threshold if your bank manages to go bankrupt.  If your money were truly guaranteed by the debt which banks create when they lend, as you keep claiming, this service would not need to exist.  The reason it needs to exist is because the money in your bank account is not guaranteed by anything.  When banks fail, account holders are considered unsecured creditors.  And if you have an amount of money in the bank above the threshold set by the FSCS when your bank fails, anything above that threshold is forfeit completely.  Why do you think people invest in things like property or works of art?  Smart people don't leave vast fortunes in the bank where they could be lost.  They buy expensive shit and then take out insurance on said expensive shit to cover its full value.  

Banks can become insolvent.  You can lose money beyond any figure your government are prepared to protect.  Conversely, Bitcoin cannot become insolvent.  This is the advantage of not being a debt-based system.  In turn, this derives a small part of Bitcoin's value proposition.  But no doubt you'll engage in yet more mental gymnastics to try and avoid conceding that point.

This just shows how bad you are at checking your own sources. Scroll down a little.


You just attempted to twist meanings and make them exclusive to your narrative, that you need a dictionary to realise that utilization means also just using something is the funny thing. See you just did what youre accusing others of again.


But they barely hold any reserves, only 1% of your actual money in the bank is actually there, this is the current requirement, the rest is just imagination that was created out of thin air, so if youre holding 500€ on the bank for example, only 5€ are actually there. And if you happen to be wealthy only 100.000€ of the account are insured, so after this amount 0€ actually exist in your account, and in a case of emergency its not even clear if they can pay out any insurance, this is just to make it seem like theres any security, so people dont get the idea to withdraw their money.


And this effects compounds with the amount of people using them, they will just use your 495€ to give loans to other people, and when all of you want to withdraw their money at similar times, it wont be possible, cuz this much was never on there in the first place.

Now tell me a bigger ponzi than this. Youre putting money into something and 99% of it will just be used, to give non existent money to people, do you get now where inflation is coming from? When each time you deposit something 99% of it will be misused, and this only works, because enough people are not withdrawing their money and leaving it on the bank. Once too many people withdraw their own money the bank collapses.

And this doesnt include when the central bank prints money yet.

Like i highlighted above there are just nice sounding stories you just created, something you accuse Bitcoiners of.

Utilisation just means making use of something, it doesnt matter if it makes sense or not, especially not in your test(its a pointless waste of time, that is not interested in having practical results). You were never interested what Bitcoin really offers in the first place, you never even asked 1 single genuine question and refuse to answer 99% things asked to you.

Youre utilising your time too, even tho it seems like a waste of time to me, with how you are utilising it. And yet im not here mentioning anything about it, because its not my business. It seems more and more to me like you have some kind of mental illness, so maybe i should take a step back. It wouldnt be your fault. Even tho the bs you are producing is just insanity.

You doubted you can use Bitcoin 200.000 times more, if you have 200.000 times more of it, but its possible, thats what i showed you.

In practice your requirements dont even matter, that is the point. You can do nothing with 200.000 bills if no one accepts them, you can do nothing with 200.000 gold bars if no one accepts them. In theory you can make use of gold, but 99% of people cant themselves. And your requirement was that no other person can be involved, because it would count as „dumping of shares“.

But it doesnt matter, because people will always accept fiat, gold and bitcoin. This can vary over time, but wont change anytime soon. This is the point of money, it is not used primarily for some other bs, just like you dont expect your bike to fly. And it gets its value from being used as money primarily.

Now imagine a good:

• With the best monetary properties ever created.
• Inside a system that can transfer/ store information in a manipulation free, permissionless way worldwide.
• With a protocol that cant easily be changed or stopped, because its decentralized.
• With being able to recover your money from anywhere, because its based on cryptography.
• With no person being able to confiscate it from you.
• With being able to become a part of the network yourself without asking for permission.

This just created trustless money in the first time in history. Its already starting to take off, was the most successfull investment in the last 10 years. And were here discussing about if it has value or not, its pathetic and obvious. If you dont see it now, ill stop replying out of respect, if its caused by psychological or medical conditions.

What I have described is exactly the same thing your shiat coin does. I give you a bill of 20 and you give me something in return that has value to me! And you agreed that the 20 dollar bill matches the value of that something you gave me!
You keep spitting that non-sense about schemes, but the only scheme is the one your proud government stuck in your head for years. That's a scam, you know it, you use it, you acccept it. How dumb can you be!



Let me also repeat what you've been explained countless times, yet you refuse to accept you're wrong. Debt is a number just like any other crap you're trying to put in the air. Collaterals? Another number! You make yourself so silly and you keep repeating! And worse, is that that debt and collaterrals and any other crap you may come up with, is shit that your government creates to suck any value out of you. But once more, you know it, you take it, you accept it! How dumb can one be?

FFS... I'm really sorry for you!

Even though I label you as dumb (as a kind of exaggeration), many of us should be able to appreciate that you do have decent language talents that facilitate your abilities to describe how bitcoin is either worth zero or close to zero from your perspective.  I would imagine that if you imagine that if you have any handlers, they are not necessarily intervening at those levels of your interactions with us - except maybe you compose some of the messages, and then your handler might approve, disprove  or advise edits.

In any event, you are showing that you are not dumb in all ways, but surely you have some tendencies and abilities to be able to dance around such topics, whether you are getting help from any handler(s) or not.

Maybe one thing that continues to bother me remains your ongoing failure/refusal to work within any of the various kinds of framework that is presented by folks who seem quite familiar with various aspects of bitcoin and how it is valuable.  I doubt that any of us are purposefully trying to be confusing rather than attempting to actually grapple with bitcoin in terms of the amazing phenomena that it has been, continues to be, and likely will continue to be into the future.  So, in that regard, you just seem to NOT even be trying, and in that regard, you seem to be ongoingly engaged in purposeful reframing of issues in order to really  talk about how there is almost no fucking way that you are even close to being correct in either your assessments about what bitcoin is, how it got here or where it is going.

I hate to speak for anyone else here, but I get the sense that many of us (including but not limited to yours truly) would be more than willing to work with you if you were providing various frameworks for why bitcoin might not be as valuable as some of us consider it to be; however, at the same time, you continue to show yourself as too damned extreme and contributing to the various kinds of inabilities for any of us to really be able to work with you in regards to any of your points - but yeah, you have had quite a bit of success in getting several of us to go back and forth to show how vacuous various  of your points are which seems to allow us to sometimes be able to reframe the various orientations about various purposes that bitcoin serves and/or various flaws in the valuations of the status quo systems, whether you are wanting to attribute value to the fiat system, or gold/pms or even to equities or property.  

Sure there are various ways that the various status quo systems have value too, and it seems quite likely that our ongoing transition into bitcoin is going to continue to take a long time because it is not even clear to people sometimes in regards to how some of the various status quo money storage or value transmission are inferior to bitcoin, and sure bitcoin is a work in progress too, at least in terms of some of the usability matters (user-friendliness).  It seems to me that it is way easier to get into bitcoin these days than it was in late 2013 when I started, but the KYC/AML requirements (and maybe various of other governmental requirements) and confusion about the various leveraging tools and various institutions (and 3rd-parties) gambling with client money creates further complications and confusion in regards to differentiating the holding of actual bitcoin versus having some entity hold it for you (in which they might have ended up gambling with bitcoin that you thought was yours - and they end up creating a lot of paper bitcoin too through some of those processes and employment of gambling instruments)...  

So for sure, Snowshow, the variance between BTC value and BTC price can become quite difficult to figure out.. yet even with a lot of the ongoing chaos around BTC we should not be allowing that chaos to cause us to throw up our hands and give up or to start to listen to exaggerating fucks like yourself - who ongoingly fail/refuse to recognize/appreciate any value in BTC.. and as I already pointed out, I doubt that you are even directionally correct from our current $18,500-ish to $22,500-ish spot price range (as I type), even though in the coming months we may well spend a decent amount of time at or even below the current price range.. at the same time, keeping our eyes on the prize seems to be a good, practical and prudent practice too... which is surely attempting to ongoingly take advantage where we are at and to dollar cost average, lump sum and buy on dips to the extent that any personally tailored strategy has to be cognizant and careful in terms of making sure to account for personal financial and psychological circumstances.


That reminds me of some of the BIG blocker arguments and some of the complaints that some bitcoin HODLers are not using their bitcoin enough.. blah blah blah.

So for sure many of us can figure out that there are a lot of ways to use your bitcoin, and sometimes the intended use can go over a long period of time, and maybe sometimes our intended use (in the future) can become frustrated too.. such as if we die without passing down our private keys... but still does not mean that bitcoin is not useful, even though the HODLer of the keys fucked up by losing (or failure to preserve the spendability of) the keys.


Disingenuine troll fucks tend to be like that... They cannot help themselves.    

Plus they may well be afraid to concede even an inch - especially since they are already standing on weak grounds of their own arguments and claims.


I think that is a good point - even though in practicality it can be very difficult to maintain in practice.  With many folks (real world and even on the forum), I will say, don't be fucking around with shitcoins.. focus on learning bitcoin first.  People tend to feel needs to find their own way, even if they trust you or believe you, there is a certain amount of comfort that comes in tailorizing our own paths even if some of them end up fucking up BIG TIME because there can be a kind of tendency to gamble or even buy into shitcoin talking points which are largely fairly "smartly" designed to take advantage of human tendencies and even come off as convincing points that end up resulting in the parting of fools from any BTC/value that they might have been able to accumulate/build.  Some folks are better than others to both avoid the pitfalls and engaging in meaningful critical thinking and decent risk management - and I am not even going to claim that I have been able to avoid some of those poor gambling experiences along the way or less than desirable risk management.. or even having some holes in the critical thinking (maybe even allowing some emotions to fog good judgement from time to time).


I have quite a few doubts about Snowshow having psychological or medical conditions that are contributing to his inabilities to address a vast majority of the points and/or frameworks are pointing out.  

In other words, it does not seem to be a good use of time to even attempt to convince Snowshow or even to hope that he addresses any of your points. .but instead - hopefully provide a framework or discussion points to present matters clearly for yourself and/or for readers of the thread (to the extent that there are any?) We all have time and energy limitations, and might not even want to read some of the responses after a while.. so if Snowshow happens to be snot-nosed 14 year old in grandmas basement, he may have all the time in the world to spend on some of his topics, until grandma makes him take a break to make sure that he eats his cookies and drinks his milk.. and sure he is chuckling the whole time (laughing at his own jokes) because he has difficulties controlling his lil selfie.. whether a normal peep or not.

Snowshow might look kind of like this, and I am not even conceding that I believe that he has any kind of psychological problems or a medical condition.




Fuck crypto.

Even Snowshow has conceded that he is talking about bitcoin here.. not shitcoins or "crypto" - whatever the fuck that means?

No need to distract us into believing that we are talking about crypto in this thread, because if that were the case, then maybe Snowshow would have a point about the going to zero claims in regards to the overwhelming majority of that shit.

Bitcoin is another story.. so better that folks figure that out, including you selezneve.


For sure Snowshow comes off as disoriented and retarded from time to time... but he likely knows better than that, and he likely knows that he is lying.

In other words, if Snowshow had created this thread a self-moderated thread (in which he could delete posts), he would have been hard-pressed to receive any responses within the thread.  No one would have wasted their time.

Since Snowshow created this as an open thread, he has no fucking power in regards to proclaiming his dumbass shifting proclamations of relevance.  Sure he can close the thread, move the thread and/or edit his own posts, but he has no power over the posts of responders beyond reporting them - and I doubt any of us are breaking any forum rules, even if we might sometimes be using some strong language in the direction of that mostly disingenuine dweeb.

Anyhow, my point is that he is overclaiming his powers, and good luck getting any of us to participate if you create a self-moderated thread on this topic or some variation of it.  

By the way, I believe some forum members remain surprised that Snowshow has been able to participate as long as he has, so far, without getting banned... moderators may well be either slacking or just allowing the harmless little dweeb to stay since he seems to be mostly staying in this thread, for now.    

But, in reality, there is NO Nakamoto scheme. It's just another imaginary construct you made up in your head. Sometimes it's fascinating to watch real life debunk a fiction that you'd invented for the purpose of social manipulation . . . but usually, it's just sad and pathetic.

I answered this, you just lost at your own bs game, you werent even good enough to construct a bs test that Bitcoin cant pass.

• If you have 200.000 more addresses, you can cryptographically sign 200.000 more messages on different funded addresses.
• You can send out 200.000 more Bitcoin inside the network, you dont need a buyer to send something, you can send to any address without anyones permission.
• You can store 200.000 times more Bitcoin in a permission-less, unconfiscatable way.
• You have collected 200.000 times more Bitcoin.
• You can open 200.000 more channels on lightning for example, if you each fund them with the same amount.
• You can open a channel on lightning with 200.000 times more liquidity, giving 200.000 times more liquidity to the other network.

No single Bitcoin sold, yet a utilisation of 200.000 times more.

.....

By the way Snowshow, even a seemingly dumb fuck like you, may well be better off to make sure that he has at least a 1% allocation in bitcoin in case you are wrong about bitcoin going to zero.. and probably you already have BTC anyhow.. I am not even going to concede that you are that dumb to really believe all the bullshit that you are spreading.  Maybe even your handlers are paying you in BTC, no?

Clockwork again.
After I have purchased Bitcoin, I have that number next to my address, no one can really take it away from me by any means, and further more, I can send it to you in exchange for some service or good from you and there you have, I just used my Bitcoin to purchase a resource with value!
The imagination is in your head, not in our heads. And it's not only imagination. It seems a mix of jealousy, lack of synapses and a brainwash from your governments, politicians, etc, over the years!

Not even that nowadays. Since 1971 that shiat currency is backed by millions and millions of nothing! The only thing keeping value is the sheep (the people) that were fouled by governments believing that what the state says is valid. So, the value shiat money has, is backed by trust... Trust can't even be quantized, for fuck sake. This @Snowshow is defending who know what! He's just trying to make a non-sense point of his opinion which has as much value as his shiat money!

What is mindblowing to me is that you have the audacity to say this to the person who still treated you fair and responded constructively, even after the all the bs you produced.

Not every number is a Bitcoin, just writing 1 on a piece of paper wont grant you access to the private key necessary to an address with 1 Bitcoin on it. But Bitcoin isnt just a number its a full peer to peer electronic cash system. We already understood that you prefer to account in cows(with the fetish of barter you keep expressing), but you can even break this down to numbers, by counting how many cows(resources) you have. Numbers are simply the most efficient way to account for something, so Bitcoin uses numbers as a unit of account, it would be a problem if it didnt.

People already did, its proven in reality. You dont have the authority to decide what counts as utilisation and what not, in the first place. If i sign a cryptographic message on the most uncensorable network, its utilisation. If i send or recieve Bitcoin, without selling/ buying them, its utilisation. If i store messages on a public ledger, like satoshi did on Block 0, its utilisation. If theres ways to use Bitcoin as a base protocol to provide security/ enable different networks, its utilisation. We are just at the tip of the iceberg, this is an innovation in computer science with many more applications in the future possibly.

Its like you found out what a market is, then had to think of a way to turn it/ rephrase into something negative and then refuse to apply this logic to anything outside of Bitcoin. Your whole talk is to take something and then find ways to make it seem like a problem, when in reality you are the problem, and other people are happy to use the systems we have now and value the work other people did for them.

We know, but how many times did you actually yourself? And how many times does the regular person do it? An individual probably used Bitcoin more for non monetary purposes, than previous forms of money like gold or fiat.

Bitcoin is used for this purpose too, there is even a whole loan marketplace in Bitcoin on this forum.

Its simply acquiring a fraction of a company, theres no guarantee of profit or anything. You can only buy them on a regulated market as a regular person, when a company is public. Companies dump and buy shares on the market themselves, they actually do what youre assuming about Bitcoin to their own investors, dont make a religion out of economics and assume everyone else is a selfless value providing angel.

We did and again its not something negative that Bitcoin provides utility to everyone, even if they have less of it. This is something positive and not something negative.

And then to your ridiculous requirement. A person with 10 Bitcoin could also split their Bitcoin into more different addresses, than a person with 0.1 Bitcoin. So they could sign more messages on different Bitcoin addresses, for whatever purpose this serves, but its more utilisation. They can also make more transactions before running out of Bitcoin, than a person with less Bitcoin, so again they can utilise it more. With more Bitcoin they can also open more/ higher funded channels on different networks like lightning, which actually influences how many transactions they can route on this other network, because they provided higher liquidity, giving them more income from routing in the other network.

Theres many examples of how a person with more Bitcoin gets 100 times more utility out of it, without having ever touched a Bitcoin/Fiat market.

Your whole existence here in the last months was gaining primary school level knowledge about something and then thinking on how to rephrase it into something negative. Are you a journalist? (No attack against journalists who still do their job, i respect them even more)

I'm afraid I don't agree with you about this. Scarcity is simply a characteristic of anything (resource, money, time) that directly relates to its supply. Bitcoin is capped at 21 million. There can only ever be 21 million coins in circulation ever. No one can mint more. Thus it has scarcity. It like renewable energy vs non-renewable. Non-renewable energy has scarcity as there is a limited reserve of non-renewables. Ideally renewable energy does not have a scarcity as it is a constant supply. Thus technically the cost of renewables is simply manufacturing costs. Whereas for non-renewable you would be factoring in supply vs demand. Thus supply/demand dynamics also relate to Bitcoin because of its scarcity. This is what gives Bitcoin its value.

The dollar or any fiat is essentially backed by assets held by the central bank. Thus the value of the dollar is determined by the assets that it is backed by. I think perhaps what you mean is that Bitcoin has no asset backing it, like the dollar or other fiat. But that is because Bitcoin is largely an asset, not really a currency.

No I don't.  I post what I believe is responsive and relevant to the discussion.



No need.  I already did what is supposed to be done from my own perspective.  There is no need for me to try any harder merely because you want to have a different conversation about mostly nonsense.  I have at  least attempted to bring some meaning to the whole matter - and you have shown your self to be a pretty damned bad judge of meaning and relevance..


I have already responded to this vacuous point as well, to largely show that it is bullshit... and other members have done so too.. quite repeatedly.

"impossible" you say, well guess what, I have done the "impossible".   ... I'll use simpler numbers for the example, but it would still apply to your larger numbers.

A few years ago I bought a piece of hardware for 5 bitcoins.  After the exchange was made, I received the piece of hardware that I wanted, and the builders of that hardware received my 5 bitcoins.

But here is the interesting part that relates to your "impossible" scenario:  ... Someone else, call them "Bob", that wanted ten pieces of the same hardware, that I had just purchased, would have needed to spend 50 bitcoins.

And so here we have the impossible happening: someone named Bob, once their purchase goes through, was able to get ten times the value for their 50 bitcoins than I did with my 5 bitcoins.

This all happened without the exchange of any dollars, or any other foreign currency.

More opinions of yourself. More shit chat. More rethoric words to say absolutely nothing! There are transactions. When you send Bitcoin to someone, because this someone gave/returned a service/good/ or anything else, you're exchanging Bitcoin for that good/service. That is a transaction. The good exchanged is the resource! P2P means between 2 perople without any intermediaries, which checks. So, once more you make non-sence statements, unfunded, no facts, zero...

After I buy Bitcoins, I have the best asset in the world. That's it, no matter how mad you are with it. You're just jeaslous that you probably haven't onbaorded and you're soared as fuck! Well, HFSP. I can exchange my Bitcoins for many things that I assign value to, so, Bitcoin is doing exactly the same thing you say the shiat money is doing! You just don't want to admit!

[
The funny thing is that there is no scheme, we saw the markets trading Bitcoin forming naturally, late after the invention. In accordance with economic theories about how money comes into existence and gains it value, that is the remarkable thing. Probably nothing, just an investment scam.

There are, 3300 just happened last block.

https://mempool.space/

Barter is over and were not using cows as money anymore.

So prove it.

So theyre all running and connecting to imagination?

https://bitnodes.io/nodes/live-map/

I forgot that you wrote the requirements for this.

You attempted to bend concepts/ definitions many times now, you lost the right to make any accusations about this.

Do you even know how to attempt to engage and grapple with actual issues that you seem to be striving to want to discuss (or at least spin from your perspective)?

You seem smart enough, but likely your handlers want you to spin rather than to actually attempt to engage with what makes things valuable such as bitcoin as compared with other assets including a vast array of the ones touched upon in this thread, including but not limited to currencies, pms such as gold, equities, property (personal and real estate - which may also include business property).. there are goods and services too... but then there are also various intangibles that seem even more difficult for you to grasp.. such as privacy, personal/financial security, freedom, autonomy, value preservation and transmission through time.  At least, we did not get too much into shitcoin discussions, even though the various financializations around shitcoins, ICOs, Defi, NFTs and yield products are not completely removed from considerations regarding value and even the concept of scams, deceptions and ponzis (intentional or accidental).

Probably there aren't too many of who really want to be interacting with a disingenuine dweeb like you (ain't nobody got time for that), but I must congratulate you on the length of this thread so far, and sure there are some good ideas in this thread.. so long as peeps do not get too much caught up in reading the meandering ideas in your posts.

It has.

You’re saying must and have to, even tho this isn’t a rule that’s written anywhere. Anyone should be able to benefit regardless of how much money they have, and they do by using a fair system. But for the sake of the argument, the person with more Bitcoin will also be able to make more transactions if they want to, so they “benefit” more. And in the real world where it’s always possible to use Bitcoin as money, this person with more Bitcoin can also acquire much more resources.

So math has no practical applications and utility? So how are we communicating right now?

You dont ask questions about a bike on a public forum, on why it can’t fly. Yet youre here questioning why a Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System is mainly used for this purpose, and that it’s a problem and makes it worthless.

Projection.

Wow.  You look pretty foolish yourself Snowshow.  Sure it is possible that tadamichi might be wrong about some of his assessments of various ways that bitcoin brings value or potentially brings value to the world or to himself, but you show yourself to completely be lacking in imagination or even abilities to attempt to think through a problem - beyond just repeating what you have repeatedly been saying in regards to the ONLY way that bitcoin has value is because other people have to want it or buy into it. 

You are not completely wrong - but you are pretty damned close to being completely wrong - especially when you ongoingly continue to show that you are not even attempting to grapple with any ideas or facts that do not support your own narrow views regarding what value is from your perspective and the various other ways that there could be value objectively or even from the view of other people besides ur lil selfie.

(Requires actually owning Bitcoin)

• You can still send and receive Bitcoin even if no one buys them.
• You can cryptographically sign messages.
• You can immortalise not censorable messages on the chain(Julian Assange proved he was alive like this)
• Becoming censorship resitant/ have un-confiscatable assets.

(Makes it more likely if you’ve been into Bitcoin)

• Learning about how to apply cryptography in practice.
• Run a node to learn more about computer science.
• Inspect the code/ processes to learn about how to handle production software well.
• Learning about P2P networks.
• Learning more about software engineering.
• Learning about game theory.
• Learning about economics and human nature.
• Learning how money functions.
• Understand why decentralization matters.
• Recognise the flaws in our current system.
• Meet amazing people who are withstanding the highest hostility possible, to keep freedom alive.
• Learn more about physics/ engineering to make mining more efficient/ utilise it differently.
• Recognize bs even faster

See even if this thing doesnt bring in any profits/ money, the value is infinite for people who use it correctly. This list can for sure grow a lot longer.

Now:

• How can you personally utilise gold without being a goldsmith, if no one accepts it anymore?
• How can you use fiat when no accepts it anymore?

You’re touching the non productive nature of money, without realising this applies to any monetary good, and Bitcoin might not even be bad compared to previous forms of money. The barrier to even understand Bitcoin is high for many people, once you really understand it, you’ll touch so many different fields, because it’s requires this to really get there.

Your second comment is correct in the sense that a collection of people in a market of bitcoin, trading, determines bitcoin's price, but the part I have bolded is, I am afraid, a bit incorrect.

Bitcoin does have inherent value.  As I was just explaining to someone (someone that just asked me about bitcoin, even though I have stopped telling people about it, I'll still reply to questions if someone asks).  Among its many inherent values there is one that seems very interesting and it may be one of those properties that first alerted people to something new going on here.  

I explained it this way:  ... So, you have used computers.  You know about directories and files (text files, jpegs, pngs, executables, etc).  You know that you can make copies of these files.  You can make as many copies as you want of these files.  This is a piece of electronic data, and anyone can make as many copies of this data as you want, so they have some, although little value, individually.  ... One thing that the blockchain technology produces is a way to make unique pieces of data.  Once you send someone a small piece of bitcoin, no one, not even you can send someone else a copy of that same piece of bitcoin.

So here we have for the first time in the history of computers (as far as I know), in the history of electronic data, a technology that can produce unique, uncopyable, pieces of electronic data.

This is one of the, among many, inherent values of bitcoin.

You still didnt answer the questions, stop dodging it. I didnt ask you if i refuted something or if you like the arguments.

Maybe you dont understand what relative supply means or what Bitcoin is trying to do. Its not putting numbers in a box and then trying to convince people to get it, because theyre scarce. History is always on the side of innovators, fools like you always thought they outsmarted everyone and then lost. The problem is you dont even the understand basics of how the world around you works, or purposely try to not accept it. It makes you look like some primary schooler trying to educate the world, but refusing to take any inputs from others/ reality.

Also youre avoiding answering questions again, is debate too demanding for you?